China Is About to Launch Its Most Ambitious Moon Mission Yet (scientificamerican.com) 96
China's Chang'e 7 mission is set to launch for the moon's south pole, where it will attempt the first-ever landing directly at the pole and search the region's dark craters for water ice. "It's an amazing mission," says Norbert Schorghofer, a Hawaii-based senior scientist at the Planetary Science Institute. "There has never been a landed mission to find water [on the moon]." If successful, China "will be the leader in lunar science," Schorghofer adds. Scientific American reports: Chang'e 7, China's seventh moon mission, is scheduled to launch on a Long March 5 rocket from the coastal Wenchang Space Launch Site on the island of Hainan, with the launch window opening on the morning of August 24 local time (the evening of August 23 EDT). The mission includes an orbiter, as well as a lander, which totes a rover and a novel "hopping" robot. The spacecraft will take up to six days to reach lunar orbit, where it will then spend two months preparing for a November landing meant to be a near bull's-eye on the lunar south pole. The mission also includes equipment from several international partners, highlighting China's growing global influence -- both on and off Earth.
The mission's lunar target is Shackleton Crater, a 21-kilometer-wide (13-mile-wide) pit with a rim that grazes the moon's south pole. No other spacecraft has ever landed so close. That proximity should allow Chang'e 7 to prospect for water ice trapped in smaller depressions near Shackleton that, because of the moon's tilt, never see sunlight and have temperatures just a few dozen degrees above absolute zero. "There are big reservoirs of ice water at the poles," says Simone Dell'Agnello, a physicist at Italy's National Institute for Nuclear Physics.
No one knows, however, just how big those reservoirs are or what their actual distribution is across the lunar south pole's crater-pocked desolation. And because that ice might be used as for manufacturing rocket fuel or to make potable water for thirsty astronauts, answering those questions is key for the U.S.'s and China's competing plans to construct crewed lunar outposts.
The mission's lunar target is Shackleton Crater, a 21-kilometer-wide (13-mile-wide) pit with a rim that grazes the moon's south pole. No other spacecraft has ever landed so close. That proximity should allow Chang'e 7 to prospect for water ice trapped in smaller depressions near Shackleton that, because of the moon's tilt, never see sunlight and have temperatures just a few dozen degrees above absolute zero. "There are big reservoirs of ice water at the poles," says Simone Dell'Agnello, a physicist at Italy's National Institute for Nuclear Physics.
No one knows, however, just how big those reservoirs are or what their actual distribution is across the lunar south pole's crater-pocked desolation. And because that ice might be used as for manufacturing rocket fuel or to make potable water for thirsty astronauts, answering those questions is key for the U.S.'s and China's competing plans to construct crewed lunar outposts.
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Damn you, you stole my comment!
Isn't it telling that China is really doing this - and stands a good chance of succeeding - while Elon is still having Ketamine dreams about Mars and dropping rockets here on Earth?
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trolling
What are you doing?
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Okay Charlie, I'm gonna have to stop you right there. Not only do all of these people exist, but they have been asking for their mail on a daily basis. It's all they're talking about up there.
Re: And they have a really important supporter (Score:2)
Pimping for a troll [Re:And they have a really...] (Score:4, Insightful)
trolling
What are you doing?
I am exposing a Chinese communist troll wanting to destroy America
No. Primarily you're pimping for a troll, driving engagement and raising his prominence so that people pay more attention to him, and working to make half the threads on /. all about him, not the topic at hand. You're making even threads that he's not in about him.
But you are also yourself trolling.
Please go away. And stop engaging.
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If a Slashdot commenter can tip the scales, then we're already fucked.
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Actually, *I* AM a socialist. And you're a "Democrat" like I'm the King of England.
You're an ignorant fascist who has NO IDEA what the words socialist (or communist, for that matter), and think it's a naughty word.
Why you're on sladhdot, "news for nerds", when you wouldn't be caught dead in the RW with nerds - you're so stupid that you're not getting paid to post this propaganda. Go away, and enjoy your $4.50/gal gas, and the price of a restaurant meal is 150% of what it was before your deity chased all the
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Your tongue is bright red from chugging all that kool aid. Seek help. Also, don't pretend to speak for the Democratic Party, because literally everyone in Democratic politics sees your bullshit for what it is. Democrats are happy to have a "big tent" party with multiple ideas about how to fix things - that's how Democracy works.
Think of it as "the invisible hand of the market", except the market is one of ideas, and the hand is the voters who select people with ideas the majority find to be good ideas.
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So, you skimmed what I wrote, and then applied your own ideological filter to rewrite what I wrote, and attack that.
Shoe me where I claimed to speak for "all Democrats"? You might look up Robert Reich's column on the final fading of the corporate Democrats...
"invisible hand of the free market"? Excuse me while I ROTFL. I see Mu$k is willing to spend $200M to get someone a seat in the Senate. Explain to me how that's "free market".
Who is trolling whom? (Score:2)
But propagating the vacuous AC Subject also makes it impossible to label the bad actors. Just a worm can of nameless faceless worms. Searching on "supporter" now... The scroll bar indicator indicates AC "won" by "conquering the Subject" of more than half of the fairly large discussion.
Re: And they have a really important supporter (Score:1)
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you don't find it suspicious at all the his comments immediately get modded up and posts pointing out his errors get modded down instantly?
People are sick of this stupid trolling shit, so no, it's not suspicious at all.
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If a person had the kind of resources to build up a bot farm that could generate enough karma and modpoints to do this in a way that would be effective, they'd be using a platform with a far wider influence than the Slashdot comments section.
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What makes you think Slashdot is even in the top 20 list of social platforms to be even worth the effort? It's a tiny number of users, and either they have the intellectual fortitude not to be politically swayed by a faceless internet commenter, or they're trolls who take none of this seriously anyway.
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What makes you think influencing on this has-been atrophied site is worth spending the money and time to do so?
Lots of lower hanging fruit out there (X, Instagram Threads, regular Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, Bluesky, etc.) that are easier to target because they aren't based on 20-year old Perl code that sucked 20 years ago.
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What code they are based on is irrelevant. Slashdot still has a very simple interface (I am using it right now, it is still the best interface) which is easy for bots to interface to using the DOM. Whether it's Perl or C# or Ada underneath makes no difference.
The real question, therefore, is why are we still being subjected to this cowardly anonymous bullcrap? This management has turned off AC posting before, and you could say they turned it back on only because post counts tanked, but have you seen post co
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I've been on Slashdot for 28 years and not once was I ever offered moderation on any post.
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Perhaps you did not check the checkbox: willing to moderate.
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Do you really think I never clicked that in 28+ years?
The heck outta here with your BS.
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you don't find it suspicious at all the his comments immediately get modded up and posts pointing out his errors get modded down instantly?
Actually I don't find that happening at all. rsilvergun's comments get modded up and down. Like the posters on this site, there are moderators who agree with him, and there are moderators who don't. You're just being selective about which of his comments you notice.
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However agreeing or not agreeing is not a reason for moderation.
Should be plain obvious to a normal human being, and is explicitly stated so in the modding rules.
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Re: And they have a really important supporter (Score:4, Interesting)
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That's all true but historically and Gen Z is no exception young people just do not turn out to vote in the numbers their elders do, I think the Gen Z turnout is under to right up to 50% so like 20 millions eligible have stayed home on election day the past decade.
If you didn't want a conservative fucked Supreme Court then we all should have pulled the hammer for Hillary in 2016 instead of handing Trump 3 picks and pouting over Bernie losing and part of why he lost is because young people don't turn out to
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giving all the taxpayer money and jobs to illegals
Hell yeah beat that strawman. You're a real tough guy! Watch out!
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Lolzers. You don't even know what strawman fallacy is. What a stupid fucking idiot you are you stupid fucking idiot with no fucking brains. Eat some more slop you ficking retard.
Re: And they have a really important supporter (Score:5, Informative)
sick and tired of democrats fraud and waste and failed promises.
So they vote for the convicted fraudster who lies more often than he inhales breath, and hasn't fulfilled a single promise other than tax breaks for billionaires.
Speaking of which, I can't help but notice:
- the Ukraine / Russia war is still going, despite a promise to end it on day 1. We are currently on day 578.
- prices at the grocery store on average are higher than they were in 2024. There was a promise to fix that on day 1. We are currently on day 578.
- we were told no new wars. We have been in a war with Iran for 6 months now, with no actual goals enumerated, no actual goals achieved, and no "light at the end of the tunnel" in sight to the point where even cabinet secretaries are saying they don't know when it will end YESTERDAY in a media appearance.
- we were told of how bad the "autopen" was, and yet Trump pardoned a shitload of criminals that were convicted or pled guilty to their charges with the "autopen."
- we were told that the Epstein Files would be made public. That didn't actually happen until Congress forced it, and even with that law the Department of Justice is questionably in violation - a subject of ongoing court proceedings.
- there was a vow to cut the debt and budget deficits during the campaign. He and his administration have already added 10% to the national debt in LESS THAN TWO YEARS even with all the DOGE bullshit that is actually costing us MORE money.
- we're still waiting to hear about his health care plan, 10 years later. What's that about?
If you want to go after fraud, waste, and failed promises you need to look behind you.
Good (Score:2)
Finally Shackleton's crew can have some Chow Mein and Kung Pao chicken.
Re: Good (Score:2)
Gong bao ji ding, don't you know ðYZ
Significance (Score:5, Interesting)
If they do find ice there, it's going to be huge. And an issue for the US, because everyone wants to go look there, but if the Chinese find it first it will be politically difficult to justify following their lead.
Unfortunately cooperation is too much to hope for, but it looks likely that China will get boots on the ground there before 2030 either way.
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Unfortunately cooperation is too much to hope for,
Why? You must be aware that US and Russia have been cooperating in space since the 1970s?
And today the US and China are far more inter-woven than US - Soviets in the cold war days.
Lets be honest, the only reason US politicians care enough about the moon is that their rival does. Its not a bad thing, a little competition. Maybe the commies will learn from that :-)
Re:Significance (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Significance (Score:5, Insightful)
Russia needs to leave Ukraine, China needs to come to terms with Taiwan and the US needs to sort it's shit out with Iran. Nobody can really work together if these countries are all acting like jerks on the world stage like it's 1826 instead of 2026. .
Right now all 3 nations are led by manifestations of each nations worst aspects and what's worse is that for the case of the US we chose this bullshit.
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Wah wah wah, stop whining. All you do is winge.
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Geez I'm kinda flattered that someone out there is so fucking thirsty for my attention and this dick they'd resort to such cheap and obvious bait. Sweaty.
I like that you're dreaming about it. Keep my dick in your mind forever.
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And your only hope is if America forces the other 2 to do as you wish.
That sounds like your hope, not jack smirking reven's.
But you're too busy supporting Iran instead because you want even more evil people to have nukes. 100% TDS
Wanting an unjustified and poorly-executed war with Iran to end is not the same as "supporting" Iran.
And if the guy in the White House wanted to keep Iran from getting nukes, he should not have torn up the JCPOA in 2018. It was working. It kept Iran's enrichment to no more than 3.67%. After the JCPOA ended in 2018, Iran started enriching uraniuum and currently they're at 60%.
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You got a whole lot wrong. The JCPOA was signed on July 14, 2015, was adopted on October 18, 2015, was implemented on January 16, 2016, and was scheduled to be in effect until October 18, 2025.
The deal was you can't have nukes until 2030, so play nice. And they kinda did. Knowing they'd get nukes in 2030.
Nope. The deal said, and I quote: Iran reaffirms that under no circumstances will Iran ever seek, develop or acquire any nuclear weapons.
Now, you may be cynical about Iran's commitment to this statement, but the fact is that they were abiding by it. International inspections mandated under the JCPOA confirmed it. Unti
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and what's worse is that for the case of the US we chose this bullshit.
"We" didn't choose any of this; I voted for the orange guy's opponent. She wasn't my first choice, but virtually anyone would have been better than the current one.
Re: Significance (Score:1)
Unfortunately you aren't the only one in we, at least it's unfortunate in this case.
A lot of people voted for hate. And a lot of people voted to have whatever happen to them, by not voting...
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There was no republican primary in my state, so I didn't get a choice.
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There was no republican primary in my state, so I didn't get a choice.
I call BS. All 50 states, Washington DC, and the 5 territories held presidential primaries in 2024. [wikipedia.org]
Now, you might claim that your state held all-party primaries, not party-specific ones. But that doesn't mean you didn't have a choice. And there was a general election in November 2024. I presume you had a choice in that one?
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I mean so did I but welcome to democracy, we take the good and the bad as a whole, America as a nation chose this. Not once but twice (and those people think 3 times!). We have to acknowledge what we've done and clean up our own mess, which will be left to the Democrats yet again, for the 3rd time in my life.
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Only the third?
Clinton had to perform cleanup-on-aisle-41 from the post-Reagan recession during George H. W. Bush's term.
Obama had to perform cleanup-on-aisle-43 from the post-GWB financial meltdown.
Biden had to perform cleanup-on-aisle-45 from the post-Trump-1 covid meltdown.
Whomever is elected in 2028 will have to perform cleanup-on-aisle-47 from Trump-2 bullshit tariffs, Iran war, billionaire tax cuts + runaway deficit spend, bond market meltdown that looks ever more predictable, etc.
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True, 3rd time this century would be more accurate.
I look forward to the Dems being blamed for "not doing enough" while they have to always play the role of adults in the room because the other side just wants to fling shit everywhere like apes.
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Trump is responsible for 12/40T of US debt. 30%>.
Y'all are retards.
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Biden more cognizant than Trump. Fax.
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All you're telling me is that a vegetable is a far more effective President than Trump because Biden was better in every facet than Trump.
So who's the vegetable besides your mashed cauliflower you call your brains.
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The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (Score:3)
Always has been.
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Gah - it's been a Lazarus Long time since I last read Heinlein.
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May I suggest "Variable Star" by Robert A. Heinlein and Spider Robinson. Heinlein's widow found an unfinished manuscript and chose Spider Robinson to finish it. The story does read as if Heinlein wrote it, especially once they leave Earth.
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thanks for the ref.
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You may wish to Have a Spacesuit, for you Will Travel.
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We like the moon 'cause it is close to us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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If they find water it will certainly put them at the forefront of moon science.
By the way, those articles seem fine. The first two are well established history at this point.
We already know ice is there... [Re:Finally!] (Score:2)
If they find water it will certainly put them at the forefront of moon science.
We already know that there is water in permanently shadowed craters near the lunar poles. This has been well-proven by multiple missions, including the LCROSS mission that actually impacted the pole.
What we don't know is what the physical state is. Sheets of ice? Ice-coated grains of regolith? Deeply hydrated minerals? Fluffy snow? Layers of dust alternating with rock-like layers of minerals cemented together with cryogenic ice?
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Right. Those are some of the hot topics in lunar science. So if someone lands a couple of rovers there with a bunch of cameras, penetrating radar, spectrometers, etc. finds water, and analyzes it, they'll be at the forefront of lunar science.
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Right. Those are some of the hot topics in lunar science. So if someone lands a couple of rovers there with a bunch of cameras, penetrating radar, spectrometers, etc. finds water, and analyzes it, they'll be at the forefront of lunar science.
Define forefront. I define it as the leading or most important position or place.
Can you tell me the other lunar science that exists? Or what science that is going to be eliminated as the leading edge?
Or is this just pop culture or nationalistic outlook, and not actually science based?
How about a challenge - since there is a present forefront of lunar science, what is it? One does not announce a new king without knowing the old king is dead. As Geoffrey.landis notes, we already know that there is
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Man, you guys are really butthurt that someone else might be doing something interesting hey?
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Man, you guys are really butthurt that someone else might be doing something interesting hey?
Lunar science is performed by nations other than the US. The EU, Italy, Japan, China, Canada, Russia, India, Other countries get involved. Different countries have different avenues of science.
You frame it as some sort of nationalism. I do not. If I need answers on matters Lunar - which doesn't happen often - I look up the individual or groups who has addressed the matter I am interested in, from a related paper.
I am not a "you guys". And your trying to frame it as nationalism butthurt is rather hum
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So confirming the existence of water ice, and getting some data about the nature of it's existence and how common it is on the lunar surface wouldn't put China at the forefront of lunar science?
Seems nobody else has done that yet, so I do not agree with your analysis.
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So confirming the existence of water ice, and getting some data about the nature of it's existence and how common it is on the lunar surface wouldn't put China at the forefront of lunar science?
Seems nobody else has done that yet, so I do not agree with your analysis.
Does Spacex and their starship put them at the forefront of rocketry?
I guess I have spent enough time with other researchers that we look at things incrementally, not as one single. thing placing a group at the front of the pack, which would make them the goto rather than anyone else. Landing at the lunar pole is in itself a cool achievement.
So now, should we ask china all lunar questions, because they know the most because they have found ice? If you are at the forefront, you are considered the grou
to kill (Score:2)
a bad mod
By any other name - (Score:2)
Norbert Schorghofer is an absolutely epic name, I hope we can all agree on this.
Great news, but... (Score:1)
But when people ll understand that to hope for a "Human Being" qualification, people have to apply cooperation instead of competition?
Please try to understand not to waste resources...