As KDE Turns 30, Contributors and Commits are Going Strong (ipsquad.net) 82
"In a few weeks, KDE will turn 30 years old," writes core contributor Kevin Ottens, celebrating with some special KDE community data analytics (including a 30-year graph of the number of contributors):
It peaks around 180 on average (and sometimes reaches towards around 200 people) then shrinks again hitting bottom around 110 persons on average in 2017... Since then, we had two major events happening. First, 2018 is the year where we had the first set of KDE Goals being picked by the community, one being "Streamlined onboarding of new contributors". Second, we had the transition to GitLab which was fully delivered early in the second quarter of 2020...
Now it seems like the team size is around 140 people on average, so closer to the all time high of 2010 but we didn't fully close the gap yet. Interestingly though, the commit count is much closer to the one we had in 2010, with a bit less people. We even had an all time high commit count in 2023 which surpassed any other week since the creation of the project. And to make things even brighter, the trends at the end of the plot point upwards. Looks like 2026 will be a very good year. Hopefully the growth will stay stable this time and then the community will be the biggest it's ever been...
[For the KDE Plasma desktop] We find the 2010 dip but it's much less dramatic than in all the other plots. It stabilized much quicker and managed to stay with an almost identical team size. We also find the increase leading up to 2020. And clearly it's one of the projects which benefitted the most of the GitLab transition. It's average team size almost doubled during the transition! Earlier I asked where the increase we could see on KDE as a whole but not on applications was coming from? Well, this is probably it. Like the rest of KDE, 2026 will be a very good year for Plasma as well. I wonder... will it double in size again next year compared to 2020?
"I'm rather happy that KDE as a whole seems very healthy..." the post concludes. "It looks like in almost 30 years KDE built a great community and many awesome products..."
"Kudos to all the people involved for the past 30 years! Even if you're not involved any more you helped contribute something beautiful and precious to the world. We're the living proof that large commons can be created and made sustainable thanks to passionate people."
Now it seems like the team size is around 140 people on average, so closer to the all time high of 2010 but we didn't fully close the gap yet. Interestingly though, the commit count is much closer to the one we had in 2010, with a bit less people. We even had an all time high commit count in 2023 which surpassed any other week since the creation of the project. And to make things even brighter, the trends at the end of the plot point upwards. Looks like 2026 will be a very good year. Hopefully the growth will stay stable this time and then the community will be the biggest it's ever been...
[For the KDE Plasma desktop] We find the 2010 dip but it's much less dramatic than in all the other plots. It stabilized much quicker and managed to stay with an almost identical team size. We also find the increase leading up to 2020. And clearly it's one of the projects which benefitted the most of the GitLab transition. It's average team size almost doubled during the transition! Earlier I asked where the increase we could see on KDE as a whole but not on applications was coming from? Well, this is probably it. Like the rest of KDE, 2026 will be a very good year for Plasma as well. I wonder... will it double in size again next year compared to 2020?
"I'm rather happy that KDE as a whole seems very healthy..." the post concludes. "It looks like in almost 30 years KDE built a great community and many awesome products..."
"Kudos to all the people involved for the past 30 years! Even if you're not involved any more you helped contribute something beautiful and precious to the world. We're the living proof that large commons can be created and made sustainable thanks to passionate people."
Revisiting (Score:5, Interesting)
KDE never really clicked with me. I was using Linux as a desktop in 1999 and was around for GNOME 1.0's release, and at the time it was great. But 27 years later, I don't recognize what GNOME has become. I find I'm just using Cinnamon and not liking it very much. Thanks for the reminder to revisit KDE, maybe it's worth another look.
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I almost always replace the nasty food with a different icon for the theme.
I don't like the macOS face icon either, looks like some kind of weird Star Trek half black/white freak alien.
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Really? An easily-changed icon is the dealbreaker for you, but not the drastically distinct UX philosophies separating the two?
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I was going to buy a Toyota Prius, but decided to buy a Dodge Ram instead because I didn't like the little symbol on the air conditioning dial. And I'll throw a hissy fit at anyone who wonders why.
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...I don't recognize what GNOME has become.
I thought most people know what a steaming pile of dogshit looks like? /s
Fluxbox was my go to long ago. Other than that Gnome was where I settled just because distros worked to integrate it more than anything else. Just too snobbish to give other desktops a try.
Re: Revisiting (Score:5, Insightful)
GNOME 2 was definitely better than the KDE of its day.
GNOME 3 OTOH...
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Re: Revisiting (Score:2)
You can run Cinnamon if you miss GNOME 2, but when I tried it, it just felt old :)
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Feeling old is exactly the point. My Linux desktop, whether it's Mate, Cinnamon, or KDE, is always configured to look and act exactly the same as it has for the last 30 years. I figure a successful major distro update is successful if the final result looks exactly the same as before the update.
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I used to be a window manager slut so I didn't get used to continuity of desktops until KDE got good. I still have to use Windows at work, but at home my laptop and desktop and minipc all run Devuan with KDE. It doesn't change much visually version to version any more.
This probably comes from the broad variety of different computers I used, but even on some of those there were other visual tweaks. On classic mac there was Copland. On Amiga there was Newlook. I tried them all habitually.
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I think you mean MATE, which is a thriving fork of GNOME 2.
Cinnamon is quite different and aims to resemble Windows 7 (and up). Not quite as flashy as Plasma, but I'd argue it doesn't feel old.
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I've been running Gnome 2 for decades now. The Mate Desktop is the direct descendant of Gnome 2. All the major distros have Mate spins of it. I happen to like Mate better than Cinnamon.
But I know run KDE Plasma and have it set up to look just as my Linux desktop has looked for 25 years.
Re: Revisiting (Score:2)
TOPAZ was a disaster, a bunch of Lennart followers have basically hijacked the project. They have zero ability to listen, and painful reaction to any critical review, especially design choices. They have completely usurped the input on design. They have leaned how to shut up criticism by making everyone afraid of triggering their hysterical "I am a special snowflake, I am hurt" reactions.
Do not accomodate their crybaby blackmail.
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I've used it pretty exclusively since the 1.x days, though I did make a bit of a detour to Gnome 2.x for awhile.
It mostly excels at being a decently well-integrated desktop environment with all the bits working together in a fairly consistent way with similar interfaces and setups. If you're coming from Windows where (at least until recentlyish) it also does a decent job of having a lot of integrated, consistent tooling it can ease the transition plus it mostly just works fine.
Linux has gotten better over t
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Back in 1998 I first tried Linux on my PC and tried the various desktop environments of the day including FVWM95, and they all sucked really, and my terminal foo wasn't so good back then. KDE 1.1 was what made Linux finally work for me as my primary OS. I could finally ditch Windows 95. I wasn't too thrilled about the single click thing but it didn't take too long for KDE to introduce optional double clicking. The other killer app on Linux for me at the time was the KDevelop IDE. It gave me a real path f
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yes, gnome went crap, and took the toolkit with it however mate or xfce is much better than even cinnamon.
Only problem I have is really being able to see if I like mate or xfce, but am leaning more to xfce maybe.
I just wish I could change colors and things like I could a decade ago.(in all OS's) and even worse, why is there no longer active vs non active distinctions in title bars?!?!
So every time KDE got great (Score:2)
Juk was probably the best example of that. It was quite possibly the best MP3 player software in existence. I remember back in the day using it to tag and organize hundreds and hundreds of... Completely legally obtained mp3s and doing it quickly and easily. It was fast, feature Rich and had a great ui. Apple even cribbed some features from it for iTunes it was so good.
If I remember correctly the developers of KDE
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Re: Revisiting (Score:3)
If you use complex applications you already have most of a DE installed on your system. If you don't use a file manager but do use a session manager then you've still got most of a DE running in your session. All you're accomplishing is using a less featured launcher, which is fine but really not a big difference.
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I find it strange some of its users act as if a "desktop environment" was an important, defining component of their system software. I bet even they spend 99% of their time interacting with the actual applications, not with the window decorations or colorful fluff on the screen.
I agree with the part about the colorful fluff, but to be fair the UX is a defining component for some people and they're better off with familiar taskbars, menus and icons (something resembling Windows and MacOS) rather than learning a tiling window manager.
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I've messed with Linux and BSD since the 2000s. For years I prefered GNOME or Unity! But KDE today is really usable. The keybindings for controlling windows are fairly intuitive; pretty much everything you expect from the OS settings is accessible from the GUI, and the OS "just works". No glitches with the taskbar of note.
With Steam's Proton being what it is, any game that doesn't intentionally block Linux works on Linux. It really can replace Windows for common usage. I've been 100% Windows free for almost
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Maybe when you read the article and understand what he's actually measuring.
Problem with providing software for profit: (Score:2)
There is a serious problem when a profit-making company provides software:
Deliberately giving limits to a present version allows a profit-making company to charge more for a new version, even if the new version provides few important benefits.
Kubuntu (Score:5, Informative)
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I've used openSUSE up to now but the current "Leap" release simply does not work for me, upgrading from the previous level goes through but the new system is unusable, even a fresh install suffers from similar problems. This is on Ryzen 3xxx hardware.
What *is* the "prime" KDE release nowadays?
Re: Kubuntu (Score:3)
In my experience KDE works fine with Fedora, Debian, FreeBSD, and Arch. I am sure that list could be extended quite a bit, but that gives you plenty of options.
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I was on Kubuntu for many years as my sole desktop.
Then I ran into trouble upgrading (though I always stuck with LTS releases, never in between ones).
I switched to Xubuntu (XFCE), and never looked back.
There are sure some areas with more functionality in KDE, but I don't miss them at all.
XFCE stays out of the way, and allows you to focus on the applications.
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I'm on Kubuntu now and have nothing bad to say about it.
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I'm on Kubuntu now and have nothing bad to say about it.
Pretty much my experience. I think the only think different was installing 26.04 from scratch to get a proper wayland install, but I did all upgrades from that version prior and that's it
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KDE Neon is essentially what Kubuntu was, and is their "prime release". Works great for me.
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What I like about KDE is the abi
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Kubuntu hasn't gone anywhere.
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Oh? Is that why mesa drivers don't "just work"? Interesting.
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I'd say it is more customizable than ever.
I'm happy for them! (Score:5, Interesting)
Good for KDE for turning 30! Makes me feel old. I started dabbling with Linux in 99 or 00' and back then I liked KDE as it felt like a bridge of sorts from Windows. Slackware had packages for KDE so I tried that distro. Back then I had all the time in the world to dig through config files and what not. Slackware was great for this as pretty much everything was configured via one file or another. You really learn a lot about how the OS works, down to the kernel level, when you were install Slackware at that time.
Other distros such as Mandrake tried pushing everything through GUI tools and as often as not they wouldn't work and you would be stuck going to config files. I found them harder to get things running smoothly versus Slackware where you were in the trenches but nothing was hidden or obfuscated. I don't recall why I didn't care for Debian back in the day. Probably the much slower release cycle and I was more interested in the latest and greatest.
Unreal Tournment 2004 running natively on Linux is part of what encouraged me to try something that wasn't Microsoft. I also loved that Linux came with all the networking tools and server software that sure as heck didn't come with Desktop Windows. Not that you would want to run ISS anyway. Shudders.
These days, I run XFCE and love the simplicity of it. I should probably migrate away from Xubuntu but as a desktop it seems to just work.
Ubuntu+KDE seems like a great setup for incoming Windows Users looking to escape Microsoft.
Never cared for gnome either. XFCE over all!
So is anything good? (Score:5, Funny)
Everybody seems to be complaining ... although that's nothing new. Some people hate Gnome, others hate KDE.
So I ask you (everybody): Is anything good? Cuz we ain't gonna have the Year of the Linux Desktop without a UI. Do we all switch to Enlightenment?
Re: So is anything good? (Score:5, Insightful)
KDE is pretty good. There's nothing really worth complaining about in the design and most of the major long running bugs have been stomped. If I did have a design complaint it would be related to the settings app, but even it is pretty ok.
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I greatly prefer Windows Explorer. I haven't found a linux file manager that came even close. If you know of one, please tell me about it. If it can give a popup for elevation instead of forcing me to the command line, that'd also be great.
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Honestly, I find KDE, MATE, Cinnamon, and XFCE all good. And I tend to use a mix of them on different machines, and sometimes just change my desktop for the fun of it. If I had to pick a favorite, it would probably still be KDE/Plasma, since it is the most complete and configurable of them all. But it is also a bit more heavy and complex as the tradeoff.
However, I am not a fan of "modern" Gnome and when Gnome 3 came out, I refused to ever look at anything Gnome again.
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I think my Linux desktop preference would run - first Cinnamon (Mint FTW!), then MATE, then XFCE.
But I will admit I still sort of miss Enlightenment 16...
Re: So is anything good? (Score:4, Interesting)
If you are looking for a year of the Linux desktop, KDE is probably your best bet. Personally, I wish the macOS-style dock was the default, but it is easy enough to add and works well.
Re: So is anything good? (Score:3)
I use the NeXTStep-style launcher in KDE, which is ironically objectively superior to Apple's dock, and is actually what they had before they fucked it up to make eye candy for idiots
Re:So is anything good? (Score:5, Interesting)
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder for desktops, mice, keyboards, and displays.
Try them out is all I can say. I spent last winter trying out KDE, Cinnamon, MATE, Xfce, Zorin, LxQt, Gnome, and Elementary. There is a new Cosmic DE out that I have not tried.
KDE seems to need more GPU than I have on that machine (RX 560). It stuttered and shook and the widgets editor flashes once and vanishes before you can do anything. It was pretty though. LxQt was also pretty but didn't seem very cooperative. Zorin looks like Windows 11 (which is the point but pouring bleach in my eyes is not my thing). Elementary is still a work in progress as far as an App Store equivalent, Gnome had me shrieking in rage after 15 minutes, It does not work the way I do.
Cinnamon and I get along fine on a Ryzen 4600G with only the integrated graphics. MATE seems a little friendlier for some reason I can't explain and works on older hardware as in a 2009 Core 2 Duo and is quite spritely on a 2012 Mac Mini (HD 4000 graphics). Xfce works quite well but is pretty spartan. It can be dolled up, but MATE already is good enough.
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KDE seems to need more GPU than I have on that machine (RX 560). It stuttered and shook and the widgets editor flashes once and vanishes before you can do anything.
I'm typing this on the 2010 laptop I use daily. I just disable all animations in KDE advanced settings. Then it is snappy and always responds instantly. I have no problem doing raw image edition, even video edition.
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Everybody seems to be complaining ... although that's nothing new. Some people hate Gnome, others hate KDE.
So I ask you (everybody): Is anything good? Cuz we ain't gonna have the Year of the Linux Desktop without a UI. Do we all switch to Enlightenment?
It's much like allegiance to brands of beer. The major brands taste pretty much the same, but expressing a strong preference for one or the other expresses a sort of manly acumen. If I say I hate Gnome or I hate KDE, I am really wanting to let you know of my expertise in computers.
People who are genuinely knowlegeable about these things tend to express their views in a more tempered manner.
And people who are genuinely knowlegeable about these things, and have years of experience on top of that, tend to be l
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And people who are genuinely knowlegeable about these things, and have years of experience on top of that, tend to be less focussed on the desktop environment.
Having decades of experience with "these things" is why I have strong opinions. I express them without guile because I'm not trying to trick anyone into anything.
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For me it's been the year of the Linux desktop for about 30 years now. Shrug. Been on KDE Plasma 6 for the last two years and it works for me. I use Mate Desktop on my laptop and it's fine. Never bothered to learn Gnome 3 so I can't comment on it, other than to say I really hate client-side decorations and controls in the area where the window titlebar should be. I guess that's also why I don't use macOS or Windows anymore either.
Re:So is anything good? (Score:4, Interesting)
So I ask you (everybody): Is anything good?
FVWM obviously.
But joking aside: I have FVWM because I like it. I regularly use machines with XFCE on and its absolutely fine, perfectly usable. Not sure if I've used KDE recently but my recollection was it was also fine, but by default a little cluttered and also a little heavy. I used LXDE on raspberry pi's and it was fine.
I try gnome every so often because it's often there and frankly it's weird and wonky. Every time I end up switching it over to something else. With XFCE, unless the machine is my daily driver I would not bother, and even then I take a while to get round to it. I keep bumping into GNOMEisms like the file dialog, and it's frankly bad. This guy explained it well:
https://woltman.com/gnome-bad/... [woltman.com]
I stumbled across the one in the section "Child Window Behavior is Incomprehensible" myself and after a stream of WTF I eventually found that article.
And on top of all the weirdness and lack of functionality it's a massive hog.
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So I ask you (everybody): Is anything good?
FVWM obviously.
But joking aside...
Wait, what's the gag?
I've been using FVWM since about 1996. First on Linux (Slackware), and now on FreeBSD.
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Wait, what's the gag?
I mean I would say it's user friendly but very very picky about its friends! I think it's good, but I would not say it's good for general use exactly.
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Both Gnome and KDE were busy growing from almost nothing. They were scrappy and usable.
Then, just before 2.0 (?), both projects went insane simultaneously and started talking about how confused users were and how much hand-holding the users needed. The number of processes exploded and started eating up stupid amounts of resources. It started looking a LOT like Microsoft style engineering where everything is fucked up and unmanageable.
Now, we are here. Both projects have never recovered from what happened in
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Ford or Chevy?
Coke or Pepsi?
Playstation or Xbox?
Burger King or McDonalds?
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So I ask you (everybody): Is anything good?
KDE is still awesome, despite it lacking a decent file manager. Konqueror used to be the best file manager I ever used, but then some moron decided to neuter it in favor of the massively worse Dolphin.
The letter K (Score:2, Funny)
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KDE vs. GNOME: A Flame War in 17 Syllables (Score:4)
KDE glows through the night
GNOME brings morning calm
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GNOME calls it clutter
KDE calls it freedom
Both need a reboot
Still that kitchen sink mentality (Score:3)
And when you read KDE's human interface guidelines [kde.org] it becomes clear why it's such a mess. The HIG reads like a developer free-for-all. It points at existing apps as precedent, or mentions some class or another, or waffles into wordy sections. But what it doesn't do is layout a clear vision of what KDE UX should be including illustrative examples, usage patterns and so forth. Some of the HIG is hilariously stupid, such as explicitly refusing concepts like basic & advanced settings. No wonder its a kitchen sink.
Compare to the GNOME HIG [gnome.org] if you want to see what a HIG should be. And no that doesn't mean KDE needs to "dumb down" to become GNOME but it needs to lay out its stall in a way that developers can follow and its UX needs to be designed on sound principles. e.g. KDE has Kirigami to produce modern usage patterns, so write the HIG around that. Make it fit for purpose and maybe some of that kitchen sink mentality will go away.
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CDE (Score:3)
Now all that's left for them to do is make a nice open-source replacement for CDE, with Motif widgets. Then we can finally have a real unix-like workstation.
Yup (Score:3)
For a long time, I used other window managers, thinking of KDE as bloatware.
Then they didn't get updated, and if I thought KDE was bloatware... gnome has become the definition.
Crashes (Score:2)
Would be lovely if they could take a breath and spend a release fixing Dr. Konqui or Akonadi or whatever crashes that show up a few times a month for me (regardless of hardware).
This has been going on for half of its 30-yr release cycle.
I must admit ignorance of how this can persist for so long. FLOSS developers typically obsess over stability but seemingly not in the KDE culture.
I used to install symbols and submit bug reports but they're not interested if you're not running the latest tip.
Not that there