Bitcoin Surges to $86,455, an 8-Month High, After America's SEC Announces Tokenized Stock Experiment (yahoo.com) 88
| August 15: | $62,991 |
| September 23: | $86,456 |
The move looks "like a combination of renewed ETF demand and a large short squeeze," Nicolai Søndergaard, senior research analyst at Nansen, said as traders betting against bitcoin are forced to buy it back, adding further fuel to the rally.
Bitcoin got bad news and then good news last week. After the U.S. Congress failed Thursday to pass a cryptocurrency 'Clarity Act', America's Securities and Exchange Commission instead announced a tokenized-stock experiment. It's a five-year "innovation exemption" that "creates a path for tokenized U.S. stocks to trade through automated market makers on public blockchain," according to CoinDesk. Yahoo Finance notes that Bitcoin and other altcoins surged after the announcement.
shakes head (Score:5, Interesting)
Some people clearly still have too much money.
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It was akin to playing the lottery. Who knew something that originally was worth pennies would balloon to $100k? I remember following Bitcoin early on when Gizmodo was still worth reading. Had I bought $100 worth back then and held onto it I wouldn't need to work. But of course you can't do a massive sell off or it craters the value. So you sell as needed.
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that's not an answer to the question
just because the whole thing hasn't been rug pulled doesn't make it not a scam, particularly when it's been used for hundreds or thousands of smaller rug pulls, tends of thousands of ransomware hacks, thousands of phishing scams, hundreds of thousands of black market deals, billions in money laundering
amway is a scam, been around like 100 years. people love scams, doesn't make them not scams! this is america, you can be proud you got rich off scams [youtube.com]
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that also is not an answer the question which was specific but curiously is avoided
it also isn't even true! just because something is decentralized doesn't mean it cannot be a scam. walks like a duck, quacks like a duck but it's not a duck because it's decentralized?
also the fact it is a "pool of value" is what i would refer to as the core of the scam itself
Re: And still no Epstein Files (Score:2)
Itâ(TM)s mostly rug pulling. It jumps a crazy percentage per day and then mysteriously drops back down. Some silly news pushes it up double digit growth percentage in a matter of hours.. this is classic speculative market manipulation, 1929 style.
Re:And still no Epstein Files (Score:4, Interesting)
The more important problem with your phrasing is the word "investment". BTC is not an investment, it's an intangible commodity. It has no fundamentals, no sales, no revenue, no debt, no equity, no overhead (though the cost of mining has stayed in the same ballpark as the price per BTC for the simple reason that if it goes lower than the expected cost of power, more people mine, and vice-versa). It is "worth" what someone is willing to pay for it, no more, and no less.
Despite what the haters may feel, it's not a scam. It sure as hell isn't something Grandma should be day-trading in her retirement portfolio; but that's a function of volatility, not because it's any more or less safe than gold or FCOJ.
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A commodity is an investment when you invest in it, expecting it to increase in value.
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Is Nvidia, an S&P500 listed company which grew 8x faster than Bitcoin over the same period, also just gambling?
Re:And still no Epstein Files (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And still no Epstein Files (Score:5)
Claims of infinite growth is definitely not a sign of a shady investment!
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The rational maximum for 1BTC is around 3 million USD, and after that it'll be pegged to inflation and/or the global GDP
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So contrary to what I was responding to it's a rubix cube that grows and then stops?
Also $3,000,000 per BTC is far from what I would call rational but I'm not an economist. Considering that it's all-time-high was $129k there's like 95%+ growth still to reach that. For an investor with a mortal time frame on this earth today that is effectively saying it's "infinite".
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No claims of infinite growth have been made.
I'm going to make a claim about your education: "that just keeps growing and never stops."
Look up the words "keeps", "never" and "stops" in your favourite AI slop generator.
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that just keeps growing and never stops
Bitcoin's current 8 month high is 30% lower than its all time peak. It stopped growing a while ago but shrank so much you lost your frame of reference. Do you claim your penis keeps growing and never stops every time you get an erection just because you pass out after cumming and forgot it's size before hand?
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Claiming something keeps growing can only be done based on comparing to past performance. You really got your brains handed to you on God's day off huh.
Greater Fool Theory, not Pyramid Scheme (Score:1)
Its a Greater Fool Theory where one buys expecting someone else to buy at a higher price in the future, despite no underlying value.
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Try cashing them in.
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That's the fun thing about Bitcoin.... it can be a both a pump and dump scam AND a highly profitable investment.
It just depends on when you bought it and when you sold it.
Bitcoin - victim of its own success (Score:4, Insightful)
IMO, a major headwind facing the price of Bitcoin is that its advocates have already gotten so much of what they could have possibly hoped for. So many of the milestones that boosters viewed as the "next big thing" that would cause Bitcoin to really take off are past us: you can buy a Bitcoin ETF, big banks have entered the market, governments take it seriously, etc.
If you're buying into the Bitcoin market now, there's less to look forward to as a potential "gamechanger" that'll make the price jump, while the same challenging question of whether they hold any real underlying value remain. Sure, there are more hypotheticals to look forward to (maybe the US does eventually go ahead with that "strategic Bitcoin reserve"), but the gap between present reality and potential future upside continues to shrink.
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This is simple physics. The bigger the mass the more the attraction, and this can also increase the stability unless something unnatural happens (like every government deciding on the same day to introduce some heavy taxation). It takes longer for the price to change when it grows, as the involved masses will operate less in sync due to distances, timezones, etc.
Re:Bitcoin - victim of its own success (Score:5, Insightful)
Except the one thing that actually matters: being able to really use it. I still (in 2026!) can't use Bitcoin to pay for things at my local grocery store, car mechanic, or even Amazon.
Bitcoin didn't take off. Unless it suddenly gets more popular by a few orders of magnitude, it remains a useless dead end.
Re:Bitcoin - victim of its own success (Score:4, Funny)
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Well... you can't generally use chunks of gold to buy those goods and services either.
To be clear I'm not pretending they are the same. I believe in gold as a store of wealth. Bitcoin mystifies me.i don't understand what the fuck any of it rests on. And I understand it pretty much too to bottom. I just don't "understand" it.
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governments take it seriously
The only thing governments are taking seriously about it is closing tax loopholes. The only governments which really back bitcoin are those who are insanely fiscally irresponsible such as Brazil, El Salvador, and the country which has the most external debt on the planet, the USA.
So you support bitcoin do you? Let me guess, you're paying off your credit card debt with another credit card?
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So you support bitcoin do you? Let me guess, you're paying off your credit card debt with another credit card?
Ha. Absolutely not. I have the same thoughts on Bitcoin as I did when I first became aware of it: "This just doesn't seem all that useful, other than for the hope that one day I can sell it for more than I bought it."
When Bitcoin first entered my consciousness it was worth $10/coin, so I clearly undervalued the potential of that "hope the price might go up". I wish I'd bought Bitcoin in the same way that I wish I'd picked yesterday's winning lottery numbers.
Bitcoin is obsolete and should not be used (Score:4, Insightful)
The only reason Bitcoin still exists is because people don't take real economics classes anymore and think they can generate "value" by "hodling". Same goes for all those stupid Pokemon cards where low wage retail workers get harassed by scalpers. Slashdot should have a topic ban on Bitcoin so we don't keep having the same "number go up" posts.
Re:Bitcoin is obsolete and should not be used (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Bitcoin is obsolete and should not be used (Score:2, Insightful)
Given our performance at the U. N., I think Iran will be free to bank in Europe. Perhaps most oil trade will soon be in Euros.
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Why that would boost the value of bitcoin does not make much sense to me.
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and yet 15 years on what are the prominent blockchain based tools being used in professional industry?
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It didn't. Hash trees are nearly 50 years old. Bitcoin's novelty was proposing a 1) a practical proof of work system based on computing hashes 2) a distributed transaction system based on it where the users would perform the processing.
The proof of work system has proven to be enormously expensive and Bitcoin processing was quickly taken over by large organizations so it failed to achieve (2) as well.
The SEC thing the story is about has nothing to do with Bitcoin. It uses "smart contracts" which is an Ether
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I don't understand why this would boost Bitcoin, for the reason you mentioned - it has nothing to do with this. The SEC is talking about stock trades using similar tech. That shouldn't impact Bitcoin prices at all.
Which tells you something about that market. People investing in it don't seem to have any better understanding of it than I care to keep.
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A bitcoin hash has nothing to do with a hashtree.
And a ledger and/or blockchain: neither.
Blockchain means: every bitcoin (or fraction there of) can be looked at, and traced back over all previous owners back to the original creator/owner.
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Bitcoin and other blockchains did have a point (Score:1)
The idea of a distributed ledger that can be done worldwide without any government involvement has value by itself.
The idea that you can buy, hold, and sell bitcoin somewhat anonymously* has value by itself.
* obviously trades involving the same wallet are tied together, and there are off-chain methods of tying a wallet to a real person, but with good "opsec" using bitcoin can be about as anonymous as using paper/coin currency or lumps of shiny metal or uncut jewels
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Your first point is actually wrong. Not only is it not intrinsically valuable, it's inherently bad. In the long run, only criminals benefit from it. Governments MUST be responsible for the nation's wealth. They MUST at least have visibility into the net flow of capital in and out of the country. This is necessary because governments are responsible for fiscal, monetary,
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The idea of a distributed ledger that can be done worldwide without any government involvement has value by itself.
Indeed. It allows people to get around all those pesky anti-money laundering legislations and international sanctions. Otherwise it provides nothing of value to anyone who has ever needed to transfer money, something that is flung around in the billions across national borders daily without issue and without bitcoin.
The idea that you can buy, hold, and sell bitcoin somewhat anonymously* has value by itself.
If you want to buy, hold and sell something, then you're far better off doing it using traditional stocks issued in paper format. If anonymity is your goal, announcing your trades and holdings o
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The Environment (Score:2)
Hear me out. When we get this kind of reporting on Bitcoin it leads to the the capitalist tragedy of the commons.
For the energy costs of bitcoin, it would be great to get updates on how much it is shifting us over the 1.5C target for global warming. Actual numbers. Something concrete we can tell our children... like where they are going to need to move in 20 years.
Now of course it is possible to fudge this kind of information. For example, if all bitcoin mining is moved to solar, it takes away solar for
Re: The Environment (Score:1)
Bitcoin is not having a notable impact on the environment. The overall consumption is barely enough to make a dent even if it were all mined using coal. Unless you think countries like Uruguay are the problem with climate change, then you shouldn't be pointing a finger at Bitcoin.
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Tell me though, how much CO2 do all the diesel burning cash trucks (armored cars etc) produce?
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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/study-over-74-bitcoin-mining-180300738.html
To
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Re:The Environment (Score:4, Interesting)
Hunter-gatherers are generally nomadic because of the tragedy of the commons. They show up, hunt and gather out the area they're in with no motivation to manage it sustainably, then move elsewhere to do the same thing again. Nomads don't "face" tragedy of the commons, they pack up and leave. It becomes a problem that needs to be solved for civilizations because they give up that option.
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It is only when humans settle and establish shared resources that the tragedy begins and must be addressed.
So, I think we're largely disagreeing about definitions. I say nomads can't have commons; tho
Good new for bitcoin? (Score:3)
I'm surprised the tokenized stocks thing is seen as good news for Bitcoin - that stuff will not be happening on the Bitcoin chain, so I'd have thought it would be more like good news for Bitcoin's competitors, smart contract platforms like Ethereum and Solana? Maybe it's being seen as good news for crypto as a whole, I guess.
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The big crypto bubble will pop eventually... and if it's allowed to get be commingled into other financial institutions it's going to hurt all of us.
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Have to keep in mind that to a lot of folks it's almost 'bitcoin === cryptocurrency', where anything cryptocurrency must be bitcoin related. Not just this field, but investing in general.
Companies have gotten big boosts just by having a similar symbol to something in the news that they had nothing to do with.
This just in - Trump Grifts some more (Score:2)
So when congress doesn't bow down to the orange menace..... he just tells his appointed toadies to fuck up our economy even more with speculation. All to make him more cash.
This country is so fucked.
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It amazes me that US society has decided to tolerate this sort of behavior. We chose this consciously and wit
Re:This just in - Trump Grifts some more (Score:4, Interesting)
Most people didn't choose that part of this consciously, because they didn't understand it, and if they did, they didn't believe it.
What I don't get is how those people can think they're smart when the counterevidence is so persistent.
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Well, I know about that, so I guess I should have been more specific. What I don't get is the perpetual falling for it again. They get nothing they were promised, or they get a little bit of it temporarily (like Trump(1)'s tax cuts for lower income people which expired after two years) and then it gets yoinked away and they just come back for another round.
It really has to be the cultism that I don't get? Because I think we've all been where we thought we could do things we couldn't, some of us just extrapo
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Not saying you are wrong, but isn't cash used almost exclusively for criminal activities as well?
All money is pretend at the end of the day. The only value that a dollar or a gold bar has is what other people are willing to trade for it.
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Not saying you are wrong, but isn't cash used almost exclusively for criminal activities as well?
The fuck is a coin-operated laundromat? A criminal enterprise now, simply because machines eat cash?
Every person caught with actual dollars on their persons, is at least committing a misdemeanor of a crime of suspicion?
Let's get a grip on the reality of the currency defended as fiat before you shove it into the same shady back alley where fine art likes to launder its self-worth through tax write-offs.
Re: It really pisses me off (Score:2)
Don't worry WW3 is going to break out soon and we'll all be dead.
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At best, crypto provided a path for new players to enter the finance industry. Which immediately put them under finance regulations.
Humans organize. They create social structures and thos
Tokenized Stock Exchanges (Score:2)
The digital n-card monty :o (Score:2)
* The Ever-Expanding Deck: Instead of three simple cards, the market constantly introduces new layers: yield farming, meme coins, alternative layer-1s, and now tokenized equities. Multiplying the ways a player can get distracted
use it to vote? (Score:3, Interesting)
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How come no one ever talks about using it as a voting system instead of just "money". Every candidate gets a wallet. every citizen cast a vote by sending a fraction of a token to the candidate. Its anonymous but can also be openly audited by literally anyone.
Because it's not a problem that needs solving? Election fraud is so insignificant it's never impacted an election in the USA. Why throw out a system that works for something that has some very serious flaws:
Oh also, It's unhackable......
It's anything but. Anyone with majority control on the chain can modify the ledger. Unless you're going to get the weight and might of the entire world to secure your ledger it wouldn't take much for a major international power to spin up a mighty mining system and start tampering with it.
Fine Line (Score:2)
Bitcoin sails close to that fine line between investment and gambling.