America's War Department Will Test Heat Ray Weapon For Potential Use (cnn.com) 144
Longtime Slashdot reader destinyland shares a report from CNN: The Pentagon has given the Department of Homeland Security permission to test a military-grade heat ray and develop tactics to potentially use it in operations at the southern US border, according to a memo signed by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth last month and obtained by CNN. The heat ray, officially known as the Active Denial System, is a nonlethal weapon that shoots an invisible beam of electromagnetic waves that can reach a little more than half a mile away, according to the US military. The energy beam causes a burning sensation when it comes into contact with the human skin -- which Pentagon officials have previously compared to feeling a blast of heat when opening a hot oven. Military officials have said the resulting "tingling effect" lasts between 10 and 15 minutes but also generates "an instinctive and irresistible urge to run from the effect."
Microwave beam is not a "heat ray" (Score:5, Informative)
A "heat ray" is an infrared laser beam, like the one in that old Soviet sci-fi about engineer Garin.
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Presumably its useful range is a function of air moisture content. The 800m spec has probably got a big caveat on it.
Re:Microwave beam is not a "heat ray" (Score:5, Insightful)
Our country couldnt be more authoritarian oriented in its thinking.
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Agreed on all counts. But, as a weapon, it could have been far more powerful, and much much longer range. Microwave radio links are renowned for 100+ km range. I'm thinking it has been designed to be less harmful intentionally.
Re:Microwave beam is not a "heat ray" (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: Microwave beam is not a "heat ray" (Score:2)
Re: Microwave beam is not a "heat ray" (Score:4, Funny)
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Heat Rays - >Tanning Lotion -> automatic rifle frying
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Re: Microwave beam is not a "heat ray" (Score:2)
Re: Microwave beam is not a "heat ray" (Score:2)
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Add some guard towers with machine guns and the border is starting to look like post WW2 Berlin.
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Except in Berlin they were trying to keep people IN....there's a big difference from letting people freely leave if they want....and invasion from foreign entities.
Frankly, iI'd be all for settting up our snipers, they could get some free practice...
And a No Man's land....complete with a field along the border of land mines.
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Enforcing a border and insisting immigrants use the LEGAL point of entry, sounds “cruel and unusual” to you?
I'm pretty sure you must have a serious literacy problem. It's quite clear that blasting people with microwaves that cause intense pain (sorry a tingling sensation that causes an irresistible urge to flee) while they are at ranges where they can't possibly pose a threat is what they considered "cruel and unusual".
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I'm thinking it has been designed to be less harmful intentionally.
Or else some con man is bilking the gov out of a shitload of your tax dollars by selling a piece of junk to gullible wishful thinkers eager to get their hands on a magic bullet.
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Microwave links are line of sight. I wouldn't want to stand in front of a transmitter.
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It turns out that immigrants commit fewer crimes than citizens. https://docs.house.gov/meeting... [house.gov]
I'll reserve comment on the current administration.
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It turns out that immigrants commit fewer crimes than citizens.
They are not stupid.
If you are already committing one crime (illegal immigration) you are careful not to commit other crimes which would draw attention to yourself and get you deported.
Illegal immigrants are careful to blend in and be good citizens. They are polite and helpful and hard working (to the point where they are often taken advantage of).
Re:Microwave beam is not a "heat ray" (Score:5, Interesting)
If you want to be sloppy and put all immigrants in the same bucket. 100% of illegal aliens are criminals. Even if they committed no crime after spitting in our faces and wiping their asses on our laws by breaking in.
If you left your house today I guarantee you were breaking some law in one form or another. Did you drive exactly the speed limit or fail to come to a complete stop? You also broke the law. So get down off your high horse. In the grand scheme of things someone being here illegally and working construction is about last on my list of priorities. You're being taken advantage of by propaganda so you don't see the people in charge robbing you blind.
If someone broke into my house and claimed a room, I wouldn't care if they didn't do anything else to hurt me. What they already did was enough for their asses the be dragged out and whooped in the street.
You don't own the country.
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If you left your house today I guarantee you were breaking some law in one form or another. Did you drive exactly the speed limit or fail to come to a complete stop? You also broke the law. So get down off your high horse. In the grand scheme of things someone being here illegally and working construction is about last on my list of priorities. You're being taken advantage of by propaganda so you don't see the people in charge robbing you blind.
between ~5% of the population being illegal and people speeding, id choose the people speeding.
you may not care but it's clear many do--to wave them away you may need to invest in a larger paintbrush.
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Just a few examples.,,....the US budget would save a lot of money if they were GONE.
Someone has already pointed this out, but it bears repeating. For that to actually be true, they would need to cost more from the budget than they add to it through both direct taxation, and the tax revenue generated through the effects of their labor and other economic activity on the GDP. Virtually all studies show that they're actually a net benefit there.
Re:Microwave beam is not a "heat ray" (Score:5, Insightful)
If someone broke into my house and claimed a room
Good news! That didn't happen! Instead, they moved in down the street, paid more in taxes than it costs to support them, and committed fewer crimes than the ICE agents you want to do them harm.
You are factually pro-crime and pro-higher taxes, whether you understand that or not.
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100% of illegal aliens are criminals.
This is a bit of a game of semantics, but you started it. That statement can only be true if you are selectively defining "illegal aliens" to mean people who committed actual crimes, as in in misdemeanors and felonies with regards to immigration laws. If so, then that statement is a meaningless tautology anyway. If you are taking "illegal immigrant" to mean everyone in the country who may not have a legal right to be here, then that's simply either extreme ignorance, or just a lie. Traditionally, basically
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Yes, it is a tautology. That should tell you something. People who break the law to enter have committed a crime. Even though we let more people in legally than any other nation, people have chosen to give us the finger and enter illegally anyhow.
And why should we let people stay when they couldn't even be bothered to ask for permission to come in first? They've already shown how little respect they have
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So, how long will it have to have been defined as a crime before you accept that it is a crime?
My argument did not hinge on things that were formerly not crimes being made into crimes, that was just an aside on my part and you're using it as a red herring here. My point was that there are many situations even now that are not crimes, but rather civil/administrative, but you are still pretending they are crimes.
Yes, it is a tautology. That should tell you something. People who break the law to enter have committed a crime. Even though we let more people in legally than any other nation, people have chosen to give us the finger and enter illegally anyhow.
Once again, a red herring. Many the people we're discussing didn't enter illegally.
And did you know that the Democrats were the anti-immigration party until around 25 years ago?
Plenty of Americans are anti-immigration. Many of those are even first or second generation immigrants. That's
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That's roughly 100 years now, or around 40% of the existence of the US.
Not that I agree with the current enforcement status quo, we shouldn't pretend that this is new.
That being said, you are correct that at least some "illegal immigrants" are not guilty of a crime- as they overstayed visas, which is just a civil offense, not criminal.
That also being said, they are a minority of "illegal immigrants", so ultimately-
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Garin's beam was not infrared, it was visible light created by some kind of chemical candles IIRC.
Mostly Harmless: Footage of heat ray in action (Score:5, Funny)
It's not always harmless.
"An irressistable urge to run" (Score:5, Insightful)
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You'd prefer bullets?
No, you'd prefer they use bullets.
Re:"An irressistable urge to run" (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes. Soldiers shooting people with bullets see and hear what they are doing, and to whom. They should see and hear the dead and the dying crying out at the base of the wall they are defending, not just assume that what they are doing is harmless because it is invisible.
If you are going to be brutal, you should bear the emotional cost of that brutality. Every American should know how brutal you are being in their name so that they can decide honestly if they want it done.
We are cruel to others because we are insulated from the cruelty done on our behalf.
In future border crossing news ... (Score:3)
This just in: DHS uses military-grade heat ray at the southern US border; Border Patrol agents find discarded ponchos with half-popped Jiffy Pop [wikipedia.org] tins duct taped to them in the scrub. No signs of the wearers.
And they wouldn't think to use on citizens? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is not a good development. This is from an alleged administration whose titular head of obtuseness wondered during Stupidity 1.0 why the military or police could not just shoot protesters in the legs.
I must not fear... (Score:2)
not the first torture technique (Score:5, Insightful)
From the nation that standardized waterboarding. We went from hydropathic torture, to the water cure, 3rd degree police interrogation, then onto waterboarding we have today. America leaves behind a rich culture of violence against the defenseless.
Re: not the first torture technique (Score:4, Interesting)
I feel like you have veered quite off topic, perhaps some liberals are living rent free in your head, or a stream of conscious post is carthartic for you. As for the content itself, virtue signaling to your fellow Braunhemden is an age old sport. They demonized communists too, generally blaming communists on all the ills of society, despite their lack of representation. And exaggerating the actual damage done in civil unrest and casting a broad net for the blame, without proof of course. It must be a simple world that you can easily cast people into groups and pass judgement on them, while simultaneously arguing for individual accountability.
Will ICE be using this, unironically? (Score:5, Insightful)
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If you don't like being alive at this time, perhaps they could interest you in participating in a televised firing squad execution. Their last one didn't go to plan. Who could have predicted?
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God forbid that children of immigrants would have any empathy for immigrants.
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Well they have a funny way of showing it then. Because much of Trump's crackdown is targeting legal immigrants. In fact very little of it is directly targeted at preventing illegal immigration.
Fines forgiven, free transport, $3,000, may return (Score:3)
Well they have a funny way of showing it then. Because much of Trump's crackdown is targeting legal immigrants. In fact very little of it is directly targeted at preventing illegal immigration.
Nope. I watched an interview with Tom Homan, current iCE director, who has served in ICE since the Obama admin. He stated that 70% of detainees have a criminal warrant or removal order from an immigration judge, a foreign criminal conviction, or deportable under a national security ruling (ie from Iran or other countries designated state sponsors of terrorism). Most other detainees do not fall into the preceding, are illegal aliens with no criminal background, but they were found with the preceding group.
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I watched an interview with Tom Homan, current iCE director, who has served in ICE since the Obama admin.
Was someone handing him a fast food bag stuffed with cash in that interview?
He stated that 70% of detainees have a criminal warrant or removal order from an immigration judge...
Aside from the fact that "immigration judges" aren't part of the judicial branch and are therefore just pretend judges, the simple fact of the matter is that US immigration law is very broken, and a lot of the reason is intentional sabotage of the laws for legal immigration over the years. That has left a massive number of people in a legal limbo that judges have handled all this time often by simultaneously issuing a "final order o
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I watched an interview with Tom Homan, current iCE director, who has served in ICE since the Obama admin.
Was someone handing him a fast food bag stuffed with cash in that interview?
No, the cash was during the Biden administration when he was not working for the government and ran a consulting firm helping companies get government contracts.
The interview was when back working for ICE in Trumps 2nd term.
He stated that 70% of detainees have a criminal warrant or removal order from an immigration judge...
Aside from the fact that "immigration judges" aren't part of the judicial branch and are therefore just pretend judges ...
Wrong. Immigration judges are part of the due process for determining whether an alien will be deported or remain in the USA, and whether an asylum applicant claim will accepted or not. Their removal orders are legal.
the incredibly huge backlogs to catch up to
Yes, the vast number of fake asylum claims have really screwed up th
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No, the cash was during the Biden administration when he was not working for the government and ran a consulting firm helping companies get government contracts.
Of course the purpose of the money was to steer future administration contracts to the those paying when he re-entered the employ of the federal government. In any case, the timing of it doesn't affect the fact that he was taking fast food bags stuffed with cash. That's weird no matter what job he had at the time.
Wrong. Immigration judges are part of the due process for determining whether an alien will be deported or remain in the USA, and whether an asylum applicant claim will accepted or not. Their removal orders are legal.
Wrong (see, two can play at this idiotic game of just writing a single word vehement denial without specific reference to anything). What I said about them not being part of the judicial branch is
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Of course the purpose of the money was to steer future administration contracts
I think he was trying to help them get contracts now. The likelihood of a 2nd Trump admin seemed quite remote for most of the Biden term. The people who review the proposals and submissions doesn't really change admin to admin. It a technical specialty of part of the bureaucracy. The are tons of contractors out there that specialize in federal paperwork regarding contracts, grants, etc. Its a weird process and insider knowledge can make a huge difference. I see it all the time in academia, hiring a contract
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Your pretense that the Trump regime is reasonable shows you are on the side of sadistic monsters. It's already known that many minors have "disappeared" in Border Patrol/ICE detention.
What's happened to them? Some of them have certainly ended up
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Trump Admin Faces Row as Unrepresented 1-Year-Old Faces Deportation [ibtimes.co.uk]
Your pretense that the Trump regime is reasonable shows you are on the side of sadistic monsters.
Your reliance on an extreme outlier demonstrates how weak your argument is.
You also left out: "A U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants (USCRI) attorney was present but did not intervene, according to a court filing. The situation has intensified an ongoing legal dispute between a network of nonprofits and the Trump administration over how unaccompanied migrant children are represented within the federal immigration system."
Which shows it was just staged theatre.
\It's already known that many minors have "disappeared" in Border Patrol/ICE detention.
You got your Presidents mixed up, i
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I posted a google query, "what percentage of ICE detainees have a criminal warrant or removal order". Answer: 70.6% of people held in ICE detention have no criminal convictions, according to data from TRAC Reports current as of July 11, 2026 ....
Does Holman have it wrong?
No, because the statics being referred to are much narrower than what Holman referred to, they only considering US based criminal activity.
Holman cited in the interview (Chris Cuomo ?) the statistics that just came across his desk, 70% (something like that IIRC) of detainees have a US criminal conviction or warrant, or removal order from an immigration judge, or a foreign criminal conviction or warrant, or are immediately deportable under a national security order (ie from Iran or other countries designa
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That said, this is the same LRAD system that the military unequivocally promised would never be used inside the US or against civilians. The same LRAD system that failed spectacularly when field-tested in Iraq against so-called "insurgents". It's trivially defeated by any amount of metal (e.g. tinfoil hats really do work against it), rain or even high humidity, plastic sheets more than a few mils thick, wet
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The thing that keeps getting me is how much deflection goes on here. "Instead of tickling immigrants with a sunburn to make them..." What makes you think this is to be used on immigrants? It's made for using on crowds. There is basically no practical benefit to using this on, for example, people who have crossed the US border and are now on US soil in the group sizes that they would actually cross the border. If you did, what's your fantasy here, that the "irresistable urge to flee" will then make them run
This has been around a while (Score:5, Interesting)
The DOD/DOW have been working on this for a while. They discovered, early on, that the device had a propensity to cause permanent nerve damage.
It's very unlikely the US have fixed that, as they'd largely sidelined the work as a failure. However, at 36%, Trump needs something he can call a win, no matter what the long-term consequences.
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However, at 36%, Trump needs something he can call a win,
This.
They aren't going to use the beam on illegal immigrants, they are talking about making a plan to potentially use it. Enough to get headlines, not enough to do anything.
Havana syndrome (Score:5, Informative)
Ironic they are developing this weapon while at the same time denying that Havana syndrome is real and accusing the victims in the diplomatic core of mass hysteria. Not that long ago they bought a weapon on the black market from the Russians. I'm sure they have been testing it extensively while they make their own version of it.
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That was my very first thinking, but I was not sure how the syndrome was called, and wanted to google first :P You beat me on it.
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Years back, they also did development on a device that uses microwaves (like this device) but instead of heating the skin, the goal was to vibrate the skull so that sound could be heard in the ears. The general idea (supposedly) was a sort of wide range public address system that could be heard even in noisy environments and at long ranges. The reason I bring this up is that over the years many crazy people have claimed that the government is putting voices in their heads using micro/radio waves. Most of th
It's DEFENSE department (Score:5, Informative)
War department is Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth doing their fascist circle-jerk.
Re:It's DEFENSE department (Score:4, Insightful)
Said department is also doing terrible in the very first war they started.
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mm you missed the full memo, it is to rename DoD to Do bad at War
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The funny thing is the left wing has wanted it rebranded as the war department for some time.
The correct term is "West Wing".
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I guess old Boomer types think department of war is awesome since they don't have to worry about being drafted anymore. And God knows they could care less about their kids.
The very youngest Boomers are 62-63 years old at this point. Most Boomer's kids are well past the draft age. Give it a rest.
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I think you have to work a "high-T" and "anti-woke" in there somewhere. Possibly some form of stylized grunt as well.
Will a aluminum foil umbrella help (Score:4, Interesting)
Border crossing buddies will now get a $10 aluminum foil umbrella as part of their border crossing kit to help them evade the $10M freakin 'Heat Ray' devices.
Re:Will a aluminum foil umbrella help (Score:4, Interesting)
I was going to say Mylar space blanket*. But yeah.
When the cost of a countermeasure is much less than the cost of the weapon, you have lost that engagement.
*I wonder how much these might degrade the FLIR effectivity on CBP drones as well.
Heat Ray? (Score:2)
OOOHH-LAH
Re: Heat Ray? (Score:2)
I totally got that reference.
Could this have been used in Venezuela? (Score:2)
Do you reckon this was used in the Venezuelan attack?
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No idea but the Russians have been using their microwave weapons against American diplomatic personnel for the last 10 years with devastating effectiveness. Seems that they have been targeting personnel and their families who served in the Ukraine stations.
Also Canadian diplomatic personnel have been targeted too by the Russians.
Martians (Score:2)
The heat ray didn't really help them in the end.
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The heat ray didn't really help them in the end.
True, but at least they got to clear away a large number of the pesky earthlings before they caught a cold.
Non-lethal weapons must be tested on the promoters (Score:5, Interesting)
Before any non-lethal weapon can be used it must first be tested on the people trying to champion it. Then everyonoe who uses the non-lethal weapon must have it used on them. It's the only way for them to understand the impact of these weapons.
No one should have a pepper ball gun or rubber bullet until they have been shot with it.
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No one should have a pepper ball gun or rubber bullet until they have been shot with it.
I believe that rule does apply to Tasers, at least for our police.
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You do not have to get tased in order to be qualified to carry it. You can even become a Taser instructor without ever receiving an exposure. There are a lot of benefits to getting an exposure, but it is not mandated. So yes most police have been tased, but it's not a hard requirement to carry a taser in most departments.
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It would be interesting to see some hard data on usage of tasers vs previous exposure to it. Not that we'd ever will.
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No one should have a pepper ball gun or rubber bullet until they have been shot with it.
Which is why the companies that produce these also produce "inert" and low velocity/softer versions for training purposes. You hear these people going on about how people should just man up and they went through it themselves in training, but they're really talking about having saline solution sprayed in their eyes, etc.
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This is the second time you've just made shit up on this article. Why do you spread misinformation?
tin-foil hat (Score:2)
I knew that tin-foil hat would come in handy. ICE will be using these in my city next week so looks like I'll need a tin-foil suit to match.
Can you reflect millimeter waves back at them?
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https://xyzhang.ucsd.edu/paper... [ucsd.edu]
I say send those waves back to where they came.
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Can you reflect millimeter waves back at them?
Technically, yes. In any practical way, no. Quite aside from the problems of aiming and getting any reasonable concentration back where you want it, your targets will be either wearing lots of armor, helmets, facemasks, goggles, and other protective clothing or actually be inside what's basically a sort of urban tank. Then there's also the fact that, if you do, like many things authorities may throw randomly at crowds of people, if anyone throws them back they're treated as if they just attempted murder.
Time to dust off that tinfoil hat (Score:2)
What crowd control options SHOULD be used? (Score:2)
There are few options for low-damage area denial. Which ARE acceptable and why?
A heat ray beats tear "gas" (which is really a cloud or spray of particulates) whose misery lasts after the target quits the area.
Even if you wear a CBRN mask the rest of you often gets smegged and that IME is not pleasant.
A heat ray does not require physical combat with attendant injuries.
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There are few options for low-damage area denial. Which ARE acceptable and why?
I think water cannons can be pretty effective and don't typically cause injuries. And they can be made more effective by adding Skunk into the mix.
There is no "War Department" (Score:2)
It is called the Department of Defense.
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Adding "Department of War" as a secondary name of the department is dumb as fuck- but it did happen, and it's perfectly legal.
The Congress set its statutory name, and the executive *also* has the authority to name it however he wishes for the Federal Government.
This system is silly, and leads to dumb ass shit like the Gulf of America, but it is legal. We should probably fix it, so that we don't have to deal with this dumb shit in the future.
So while it is true that "It is called the Department
Oh, gonna be soooo "cool" (Score:3)
Not. Saw a video a while ago of some who built a microwave weapons, and tested it on themselves. An aluminum-covered version of Captain America's shield worked just fine. And, IIRC, a concave one shorted out the weapon itself.
Fake news (Score:2)
There is no War Department. Maybe they meant the Department of Defense?
War crime? (Score:3)
This sounds like a war crime.
It may not -technically- be a violation of any treaty we have signed, but it certainly fells like it should be a war crime to use an invisible, indiscriminate attack, against civilians, outside of a warzone.
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Area-denial is not indiscriminate, and visibility is not a consideration that makes any sense whatsoever.
It's a directed energy weapon, and a non-lethal one.
As for the use against civilians outside of a warzone, are you suggesting that the Government should prefer the use of lethal weaponry against civilians outside of a warzone?
I'm not going to defend police use of crowd control measures, as I think in the vast majority of c
Hegseth asked for moats and (Score:2)
...sharks with lasers, but this was Plan B.
Will Likely Give Lasting Cataracts (Score:2)
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You might be right about this tech. But a proper working microwave shouldn't cause cataracts.
"Exposure to high levels of microwaves can cause cataracts and alter or kill sperm, causing temporary sterility. However, correct use of a microwave oven in good repair will not cause these harmful effects."
https://cchp.ucsf.edu/resource... [ucsf.edu]
Chain mail is back in fashion! (Score:2)
So basically, they want to microwave protestors.
And chain mail with fine loops of chain suddenly becomes very popular...
Selective? (Score:2)
DIY Science YouTuber posted a series about defense (Score:2)
YouTube is burying the search results, go to the channel creator's link:
https://www.youtube.com/@TechI... [youtube.com]
Playlist:
"We Build and Test Microwave Blocking Panels" https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
"Defeating Microwave Weapons! - Part 1" https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
"You're not protected from microwaves... yet - Part 2" https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
This isn't for the southern border (Score:2)
it's for the protests triggered by the shockingly Russian-like election results we're about to see
I would expect (Score:2)
I would expect some people will respond with projectiles.
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Will you start "doing something" to your president then, and his whole corrupt administration? Somehow I doubt it. Constitution ... never heard of it. Lol.