French Lawmakers Back Per-Gigabyte Internet Traffic Tax (tomshardware.com) 171
Companies like Google, Netflix, TikTok, and Meta may soon owe the French government, reports Tom's Hardware:
France has approved a proposed tax that aims to tax the amount of internet data per gigabyte sent to French users in the country... According to minutes released by the National Assembly, members voted 11-10 in support of the motion on October 30 — which now means the new law has been added to the country's next budget, despite major opposition from the government side and the finance committee rapporteur. The latest amendment, introduced by socialist lawmaker Laurent Lhardit, could see content providers pay €0.055 (roughly $0.06) to the government for every gigabyte of content distributed to French users. With approximately 154 million users and counting in France, the proposal's authors say such a tax could generate around €10 billion ($11.2 billion) in annual revenue for the government.
The said proposal, though yet to be passed as it must survive further parliamentary scrutiny, aims at companies that generate substantial internet traffic as opposed to taxing their advertising revenue, profits and subscriptions. Its explanatory notes particularly mention Google, Meta, Netflix, Amazon, and content delivery network Akamai as major potential contributors. Notably, TikTok and other similar platforms could fall under this broader scope depending on how these rules are applied. Internet service providers, including Orange Free and Liad, would be required to measure the volume of data and identify the companies responsible for sending it to French users. The Data will then be collected and submitted quarterly to France's tax administration under the supervision of telecommunications watchdog Arcep.
The measure becomes law if it clears the remaining stages of France's budget process, the article points out, "with parliament scheduled to vote on the budget's first section in early November." "VideoLAN, the French nonprofit organization behind the VLC media player, warned that the proposed levy could cost it more than €1 million annually," reports CircleID. "Its response illustrates how traffic-based taxation could affect organizations distributing large volumes of data without corresponding commercial revenue."
The said proposal, though yet to be passed as it must survive further parliamentary scrutiny, aims at companies that generate substantial internet traffic as opposed to taxing their advertising revenue, profits and subscriptions. Its explanatory notes particularly mention Google, Meta, Netflix, Amazon, and content delivery network Akamai as major potential contributors. Notably, TikTok and other similar platforms could fall under this broader scope depending on how these rules are applied. Internet service providers, including Orange Free and Liad, would be required to measure the volume of data and identify the companies responsible for sending it to French users. The Data will then be collected and submitted quarterly to France's tax administration under the supervision of telecommunications watchdog Arcep.
The measure becomes law if it clears the remaining stages of France's budget process, the article points out, "with parliament scheduled to vote on the budget's first section in early November." "VideoLAN, the French nonprofit organization behind the VLC media player, warned that the proposed levy could cost it more than €1 million annually," reports CircleID. "Its response illustrates how traffic-based taxation could affect organizations distributing large volumes of data without corresponding commercial revenue."
such a tax could generate (Score:5, Insightful)
Or maybe, every internet company will just cut France off
Re: such a tax could generate (Score:3)
Put the tax on the ad providers since they generate most of the junk traffic.
Re: such a tax could generate (Score:2)
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And I did not read EU companies would be exempted from this tax, it sure looks like the French are again shooting themselves in the foot
On the other hand, the French state is so deep in debt and with a population that refuses to tighten their belts, no wonder the politicians are looking for solutions.
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Either way, even if this goes into effect, I really doubt the revenue will deliver what they think it will. Things like this often manage to reduce tax revenue in some way.
The streaming companies are more likely do any number of things:
- Reduce the bit rate to mud, then charge a higher fee for what everybody outside of France gets (though mud often has snails in it)
- Switch to a pay-per-view model
- Switch to a time-based model
- To avoid any of the above, French users just VPN to another country where this t
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- To avoid any of the above, French users just VPN to another country where this tax doesn't exist. (And then perhaps France bans VPNs? May as well at this rate, because they could break chatcontrol too.)
According to the text of the law, ISPs operating in France are responsible for designating the data producers. The ISPs will designate the VPN company as the data producer. If the VPN company is legally operating, they'll receive the invoice at their European headquarters or business representation.
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According to the text of the law, ISPs operating in France are responsible for designating the data producers.
That's interesting -- so basically the ISP just blames somebody, and whoever they blame is who gets taxed. That's going to prove very difficult as TLS improves and ends up added to more places, unless they literally tax every kind of content. CDNs already commonly carry Netflix traffic, and as time goes on you're only going to be able to take an educated guess what kind of traffic it is by its burst pattern. As for where it originates from, France would have to give ISPs permission to violate all kinds of i
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They basically held us at gunpoint, telling our customers that they couldn't have whatever ultra mega fucking HD it was, and that they needed to contact their ISP to get it. It was effective.
We also directly peer with every other major content provider.
In short, I'd say our ability to classify inbound traffic is very, very good. A tiny fraction of my traffic is unclassified.
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- Reduce the bit rate to mud, then charge a higher fee for what everybody outside of France gets (though mud often has snails in it)
To clarify the proposed workings: this isn't a tax on companies, this is a tax on consumers. The content producers are not expected to eat the tax, they're expected to transparently pass it on to consumers, and invoice them to the cent. For example Netflix would invoice a consumer the usual flat rate, and then the additional tax based on the specific data usage, in two separate and clearly labelled lines (like it works for any other services subject to taxes like air travel, electricity, etc.).
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To clarify the proposed workings: this isn't a tax on companies, this is a tax on consumers.
Taxes are always on consumers. Full stop. You pay for it one way or another.
For example Netflix would invoice a consumer the usual flat rate, and then the additional tax based on the specific data usage, in two separate and clearly labelled lines (like it works for any other services subject to taxes like air travel, electricity, etc.).
I don't know how France operates in this regard, but if it's anything like the US, they don't have to add below-the-line fees like this. They can just bake it into the price, rate, etc. Either way, the consumer always ends up paying.
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Pasteur, you mean? So anything after early 1900s is fair game.
Inventions?
What about the Concorde airliner? Discovery of radium? (Technically by one immigrant and one Frenchman - but that shoots holes in your whining about immigrants.) Citroén DS - probably the most advanced car made after WW2. SCUBA equipment. MPEG4/DivX. First remote surgery in early 2000s.
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What about the Concorde airliner?
Poor choice...that was an unmitigated disaster.
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What about the Concorde airliner?
Poor choice...that was an unmitigated disaster.
I wouldn't be so harsh.
Although New Zealand was not part of its normal set of routes. A Concorde aircraft once visited NZ - I think as a sort of exhibition. Lots of people went to the airport just to see it, including me. It came down, approaching the runway, with its nose pointed down in that unique fashion, but just before it landed, with a burst of power, it rose back up into the sky. This was part of the demonstration. But it left an impression on me. Rather than the usual slow pull up into the sky that
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Boeing 2707 was a non-flying test mule.
Tu-144 required earplugs in the cabin, afterburners while cruising, and had enough of a range to get passengers from New York to the Azores, if they were lucky.
Concorde was genius. Proper FBW with synthetic feel, used the fuel tanks as a heat sink and as ballast for CoG adjustment, had variable intakes to avoid use of reheat at cruise.
60 bucks per terrabyte?! (Score:4, Interesting)
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You only average a TB a month because someone subsidizes the cost of your connection. If you had to pay the real cost yourself you'd be cutting back on that traffic. Think of a tax as an incentive to bring your own traffic into line with national economics.
Where I live there are people like you of course, and they get throttled when they exceed average usage. A user pays tax is a better system overall, imho.
Re: 60 bucks per terrabyte?! (Score:2)
Re: 60 bucks per terrabyte?! (Score:2)
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Key wording. "They send" not "is received". This is a transmission tax if the wording is correct, and nearly impossible to enforce. I suspect the real point here is to put datacenters in France to service French customers, so that there is no tax, and they have legal authority over the data. It is a data control issue, not an actual tax.
Re: 60 bucks per terrabyte?! (Score:2)
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Re: 60 bucks per terrabyte?! (Score:2)
or the self driving car/self driving cab initiative: https://www.electrive.com/2026... [electrive.com]
Sounds like you're moving to retire rather than find tech work, in which case the crushing French capital gains tax will eat into your budget if you plan to live off investment income.
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Nah, I'm not of retirement age. But even 5 years later adoption means 5 years less of PAIN and RAGE for me. And while France might be investing in self-driving cabs, they're ALSO investing in public transport. Trains! Joyful, lovely trains! Compare how the Paris Métro has expanded over the past 10 years to the utter stagnation of public transport in most of the US.
They also have a population that's much more resistant to change than the US, same with unions ... see also, riots.
Re: 60 bucks per terrabyte?! (Score:2)
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This make me want to move to Europe
You've said this repeatedly. No one is stopping you. If that's where you feel your life would be best, then you should most certainly move there. Maybe the grass really is greener.
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I'm not trying to attack or deride you in any way. I'm sincere when I say if you truly think you'll be happier, then you should really follow through. Doesn't matter if I do or don't agree with your assessment of the situation. We all have our own opinions and that's fine.
I get sticking around for people you care for that refuse to go though. Best of luck to you.
P.S. I read another comment that says you've already worked on the passport or visa? That's great and gives you that first step to what you want.
Lmao (Score:4, Interesting)
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What next? Games? Let me just reinstall Diablo 4 real quick and let France charge Blizzard a fiver...
Microsoft (Blizzard's owner) won't care, they will pass the charge to you. The license granting you access to the proprietary code and art subject to your download fees bill being paid. Its the indy developers that will get screwed.
Tax AI (Score:3)
Tax them the same amount that 3 full time office workers would pay on their taxes.
I'm in the EU (Score:3)
Among a plethora is reasons (importantly this is anti-net-neutrality), a "tax" like this just ends up being passed on to end users. And they won't all be French. Google, Amazon, Netflix, et al, won't lose any profits here.
Here's hoping the inevitable price increases are limited just to France. They won't be. But we can hope.
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Let's hope this lunacy ends there. I occasionally travel to or through France and I don't leave my phone at home.
So many questions... (Score:3)
They don't know what they're talking about (Score:5, Insightful)
A tax of 5.5 cents per gigabyte is more than 100 times as expensive as the price of global IP transit, which is now less than $0.10 per megabit/s per month ($0.10 per 324 gigabytes).
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A tax of 5.5 cents per gigabyte is more than 100 times as expensive as the price of global IP transit, which is now less than $0.10 per megabit/s per month ($0.10 per 324 gigabytes).
I need to switch! Where do I get internet at these prices?
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You buy bandwidth in bulk at a well-connected internet exchange. That's not even the cheapest "internet" you can get: It's what ISPs fall back on when they don't have a cheaper route to you. People don't realize that bandwidth is really cheap and a little bandwidth can carry lots of data over time.
Re:They don't know what they're talking about (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know about French users, but most of the data I receive is solicited - I trigger the process and have some control over the data quantities. This tax only makes sense if it is on the end users. Does Mozilla have to pay if I update my Firefox or Thunderbird? Does Microsoft have to pay if I update my (non-existent) Windows?
If it was April 1 I'd understand this, Stoopid in concept.
Of course I'm often sitting in some form of public transport and the person next to me is looking at a video on his phone, but why should that be a problem?
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Modern Offline Capable Protocols ... (Score:2)
... desperately needed.
This tax of course is bullshit unless it's public infrastructure used for that traffic.
I personally suspect that such policies would advance the development and utilization of modern offline protocols and foster citizen driven thumb drive networks and similar workarounds which in turn would significantly improve everyone's mental health and quality of life.
Point in case: I've been using email for almost 30 years now. It was ancient back then and is basically unusable for any non-exper
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More riots! (Score:2)
Just when you thought the riots were over.
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The riots are a good thing ... Americans give lip-service to "2A" rights when paramilitary scums are dragging people off the streets, and an unelected bureaucrat was unilaterally trying to enact cuts to science and education funding.
The French? They may not be performatively waving their boom-sticks around, but they actually fight, shed blood, and lose blood to defend their liberties and public services.
Re:More riots! (Score:4, Insightful)
No arguments there. The libertarians and "don't tread on me" cosplayers were all totally silent on ICE. Armed and masked federal agents patrolling city streets and snatching people into rental vans? Sounds like the heavy boot of big government and exactly what they've been preparing for.
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If it's free, you're the product. Also, forcing people to move away from videos which you have to skip to avoid someone's yammering will be a good thing.
I don't need to endure a 10 minute video just to know where the screws and clips to remove the hazard switch in my car are - give me some text and a fk'ing diagram, people. The trend towards video for everything makes me want to spit in the world's face.
Re:More riots! (Score:4, Insightful)
Unfortunately, sometimes violence is in fact the answer to authoritarianism and austerity. If that makes me a Bad Person(tm) for saying that, I own the epithet. MLK Jr succeeded because the Black Panthers provided an alternative vision for white people to ruminate on. Nelson Mandela succeeded because Winnie's "necklace" was the alternative.
Now, let's compare societies - is France really the violent one? There's one confirmed death from the riots in France. Trump's ICE "heroes" have shot at least 9 people to death in the past year or so, and 60+ have died in detention. The US also has about 3x the rate of fatal shootings by police as adjusted for population, and 4x the general homicide rate.
Data should be cheap (Score:2)
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Possible beneficial side effects on some things (Score:2)
We might see much lighter web pages, better-compressed images, etc.
But I suspect most of the traffic from companies like Meta, Google, etc. would be video and I don't really see a way to compress that much without losing quality.
All in all, though, I can't see this actually making it into law.
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Making watching video at home, whether it's Netflix or infinite-scrolling through annoying-ass soshul meedjuh "sharts" most expensive - don't threaten the world with a good time.
Also, if it reduces the quantity of videos on how to repair things in favor of pictures and text (see red circle for the screw you need to remove), that will also be a good thing. I don't need to listen to someone yammering for 5 minutes and talking up sponsored products to know how to remove the hazard light switch in my car!
President Curtis (Score:2)
I saw an episode of President Curtis about this...
They needed more power. They episode entails them trying to get free power from hollow earth.
In the end, they don't get any new power. So the President asks, "What uses the most power?"
"AI Porn" is the answer.
He is bummed that he is going to get called the guy who taxed orgasms.
Another sales tax (Score:2)
It's obvious what happens, next.
I'm all for US-based corporations paying more taxes but this is pure stupidity. It's time for governments around the world (including the USA) to admit the tax-breaks given to US corporations are a bad idea and to cancel them: Not invent more sales taxes to 'fix' the shitty laws they've already got.
The economics are kind of weird on this (Score:2)
The majority of Netflix deployments are in ISP networks. ISPs love this because one of their biggest costs is building and paying for transit interconnect to the rest of the Internet. Most big bandwidth pushers either have their own in-ISP deployments or use CDNs like Akamai and Fastly that have in-network deployments. Netflix servers have lots of disk to store the bulk of their library, the only go upstream for the very long tail. This works for everyone. Forcing in-network traffic to be taxed will cause s
just another toll booth? (Score:2)
French Lawmakers Lack Brains (Score:2)
There are only two outcomes here: 1. French users suddenly get a per GB surcharge or their bill is offset by a magic amount that covers this tax.
2. The French people get along without Netflix, et. al.
Neither one will be popular with the French people for very long.
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Sensationalized fake news (Score:4, Informative)
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Came here to say that. Look forward to shitty, slow video compression and telco grade audio.
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What is your beef with the standard deduction? That disproportionally favors people with lower incomes; under the old system the people it hurts are high income that live in expensive states with high state taxes. State taxes used to be fully deductible.
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I don't mean IRS deduction - I mean the amount you get ratfucked for per year before health insurance benefits kick in. Average for an individual this year was $7500, higher for families. This would be seen as criminally insane in France and would likely provoke a second revolution.
Interesting. Let's see what the data says:
https://www.kff.org/affordable... [kff.org]
https://www.kff.org/private-in... [kff.org]
And it says False. Families aren't even that high. In reality, they're about half the number you gave. Always prefer data over whatever falls out of one's ass. Think like paper on rock, or rock on scissors: Data beats ass every time. My hunch is you just picked some random family plan off of the "affordable" care act silver or bronze plans and just called the average for singles even if it was neither
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HSA accounts have deductibles at or near that amount. Granted, the purpose of a HSA os to allow you to fill the HSA with tax free money. They are great for younger, healthier, people because the account never expires (unlike a FSA). So when medical expenses are very low, the money you save in the account can grow for later in life when expenses may be higher.
The obvious catch is you need to be able to make enough to have money left over to fund the HSA during those early years; when your income is probab
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HDHP starts at $1,500
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I. VALUE. PREDICTABILITY.
Doesn't much look like it. I've been on medicaid, and medicare is basically the same with subtle differences in terms of coverage, and you pay. It also sucks because most of the better providers out there don't accept it, and my private insurance has always provided better dollar figure coverage. If you want predictable, medicare isn't for you. If you want predictable, then why even bother with deductible? The real number for you in that case is the out of pocket maximum, and you just plan around that.
HDHP
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If you're talking about smaller businesses, employees often get the bare minimum in the Unhinged Stinks. Once their employers put them on bronze, it complies with the law. And since they have "employer coverage", it disqualifies them from buying additional/better coverage through the ACA exchanges. The tie-up between employment and insurance in the US stinks to high heaven.
In France, everyone has the same 1-2 insurance companies, and employer insurance is additional to it (and required to be non-profit,
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If you're talking about smaller businesses
No, in fact I'm talking about the exact statistic you claimed to be giving, only you weren't. You said average, and with no other qualifiers, which means everybody. Averages are often misleading as well, but regardless, that's what you picked.
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You're a dolt or a liar. Born in europe, live in america. My health care is way better and cheaper here. No waiting for appointments. I pay $20 or $40 copay per visit. Never anything more.
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But Free Healthcare!!!1 (it's not btw)
Right, next you'll be telling us that "Free College" only guarantees something equivalent to US Community Colleges, which BTW way are damn near free.
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Would it surprise you that even EU medical schools are either free, or much cheaper than the average for the US? And typically 6-yr programs, direct admission from high school.
And some gifted kids in the US get scholarships. Or their entire medical school debt is forgiven by military service. The point is free doesn't necessarily mean you get a good 4-year school. The seats are still limited, its still competitive. You won't get that free seat in medical school simply by being a citizen.
There are other issues, like lack of choice of location, but the system works decently well. The US isn't the only model worth looking at.
Not what I said. Just point out the differences between the US and EU systems are not as great as many in the US believe. In the US we often get a political distortion of what is available in Euro
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You shouldn't need to join the vile US military to get the benefits that people in normal countries enjoy by default.
"Vile" just indicates your political bias and likely low info.
There are what, 9 european countries with mandatory military service.
As I said its just one option, academic scholarships are available too.
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Not opposed to mandatory military (or other?) service, AM opposed to the US military constantly being used for senseless, expensive wars in countries where it has no business being. In fact, with mandatory service, the public might actually become more resistant to those wars. See also: Vietnam.
I'd rather simply have it subsidized for everyone, and have national service be separate. Private scholarships are often very dependent on whom your parents know, whom you know, what church you're a member of, etc
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Not opposed to mandatory military (or other?) service, AM opposed to the US military constantly being used for senseless, expensive wars in countries where it has no business being.
That's just displaying your ignorance. You have a superficial and politicized view. If you had to critical thinking skill you claim EU universities require you would realize that when a leading sponsor of global terrorism has 60% uranium, they can create a WMD with a nuclear detonation.
In fact, with mandatory service, the public might actually become more resistant to those wars. See also: Vietnam.
Again, a superficial and politicized interpretation of the Vietnam anti-war movement and its relationship to the military.
I'd rather simply have it subsidized for everyone, and have national service be separate. Private scholarships are often very dependent on whom your parents know, whom you know, what church you're a member of, etc.
Private scholarship is a niche thing. Nearly all scholarship is in the US, heavily subsidized, and admi
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Ironically, the Holocaust was literally modeled on the extirpation of the native populations of North America.
Nope. That opinion goes beyond "low info" and goes into some rather dumbass political dogma.
The indigenous people of North America were largely wiped out by disease introduced by European explorers. By the time European colonists arrived there had been massive casualties throughout the northeast for example. Numerous villages consolidate from 4, 5, or 6 villages to a single village. Massive empty spaces with abandoned villages. We definitely developed a manifest destiny to control the lands all the way t
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Shall we speak extirpation of an American continent. Spain and Portugal essentially depopulated Central America. Cortez the conqueror FTW.
Re:VHS (Score:4, Interesting)
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What it means that if you meet their published criteria (Bacc score, grades), you're in.
That's what I meant by its competitive.
They just narrow the student body down after admission - years 1 and 2 are "weeders"
We do that too.
Much more democratic than many US schools, where admission criteria are opaque.
It's really not that different. For us standardized test scores are a major component of where you get to go. We have politicians meddling more at the margins, but the general results is that the top 10% can get into the upper tier state universities (focused more on preparing you for grad school) and top 20% can get into the secondary tier state universities (focused more on industry). Both tiers offer the same degrees, it's just that the top tier have
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It's hugely different ... getting into postgrad professional programs (law/medicine/dentistry/vet) requires not just good grades and standardized test scores, but ability to bullshit about yourself in letters and application essays. Procedure in most countries in Europe is more straightforward - more heavily based on test scores, school grades (in some cases), much less on "whole person" criteria that require applicants to be good salespeople with high self-esteem. And it's typically straight out of high
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It's hugely different ... getting into postgrad professional programs (law/medicine/dentistry/vet) requires not just good grades and standardized test scores, but ability to bullshit about yourself in letters and application essays. Procedure in most countries in Europe is more straightforward - more heavily based on test scores, school grades (in some cases), much less on "whole person" criteria that require applicants to be good salespeople with high self-esteem.
You are simply mistaken. The "wholeperson" or "salespeople" notion is inaccurate, again you might be confusing some elite private school letting in a legacy admission with universities in general. Public universities are pretty much grade and standardized test focused. The state university where I went, if you were not in the top half of ALL students taking the graduate record exam CS subject -- which is basically anyone applying to CS graduate school -- they look no further, you are not considered qualifie
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Of course.
Well, obviously.
It doesn't disproportionately impact black people, transfer private wealth to 1% of the population, treat non-straight people worse than animals, or spread trivially-discounted lies about scientific and medical facts... so it can't be from the mind of a conservative.
Conservative trolls don't do well here.
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