America's Clocks Are Still Falling Back Tonight Despite Trump's Daylight Saving Push (axios.com) 123
Clocks "fall back" one hour tonight to end Daylight Saving Time — though many Americans want to end the twice-yearly clock change, reports Axios.
But the U.S. Congress "remains deadlocked about how to make that happen." The clocks are falling back despite a bipartisan House vote in July to make daylight saving time permanent and Trump's subsequent push for Senate action... While most Americans want to end the twice-yearly clock changes, they don't necessarily favor Trump's solution. Gallup found 48% of Americans support permanent standard time the entire year, compared with 24% who prefer permanent daylight saving time, as Trump wants... In 1974, the U.S. experimented with year-round daylight saving time but reversed course amid concerns about children going to school in the dark>.
Experts still debate whether permanent DST is good for people. Supporters argue that permanent daylight saving time would provide more afternoon and evening sunlight, encouraging outdoor activities. But sleep experts warn that darker mornings and lighter evenings can disrupt sleep cycles, while permanent daylight saving time could force millions of children to travel to school in the dark. The bottom line: The American Academy of Sleep Medicine says it prefers permanent standard time because it better aligns with natural sleep cycles.
"Hawaii and most of Arizona don't observe daylight saving time, so their clocks won't change," the article points out, adding that eliminating it for the rest of America "still faces opposition in the Senate and isn't expected to be considered by the end of the year.
But "the upcoming midterms could change the balance of power in Congress, potentially shifting the debate."
But the U.S. Congress "remains deadlocked about how to make that happen." The clocks are falling back despite a bipartisan House vote in July to make daylight saving time permanent and Trump's subsequent push for Senate action... While most Americans want to end the twice-yearly clock changes, they don't necessarily favor Trump's solution. Gallup found 48% of Americans support permanent standard time the entire year, compared with 24% who prefer permanent daylight saving time, as Trump wants... In 1974, the U.S. experimented with year-round daylight saving time but reversed course amid concerns about children going to school in the dark>.
Experts still debate whether permanent DST is good for people. Supporters argue that permanent daylight saving time would provide more afternoon and evening sunlight, encouraging outdoor activities. But sleep experts warn that darker mornings and lighter evenings can disrupt sleep cycles, while permanent daylight saving time could force millions of children to travel to school in the dark. The bottom line: The American Academy of Sleep Medicine says it prefers permanent standard time because it better aligns with natural sleep cycles.
"Hawaii and most of Arizona don't observe daylight saving time, so their clocks won't change," the article points out, adding that eliminating it for the rest of America "still faces opposition in the Senate and isn't expected to be considered by the end of the year.
But "the upcoming midterms could change the balance of power in Congress, potentially shifting the debate."
Take Spain as an example. (Score:5, Interesting)
General Franco was Spain's dictator between the late 1930s and the mid 1970s which was when he died. He came out as the victor in the Spanish Civil War with substantial assistance from Adolf Hitler, he was an admirer of Adolf Hitler, not least because of that help (not that Hitler felt the same way about Franco *). It was for this reason that Franco aligned his Timezone with Germany's, something which would be equivalent to permanent DST except that Germany also has DST so Spain now has "Double DST" for 7 months a year.
The Spanish have adapted and overcome, they get up late and go to bed even later.
* During the war, Franco wanted Hitler to help Spain take Gibraltar. No.
Hitler wanted Spain to join the war rather than remain neutral. No.
Hitler really disliked Franco's reedy voice.
Re:Take Spain as an example. (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you really blame dictators for Spaniards weird sleeping habits?
People used to have a long sleep after lunch, and so stayed up very late.
Since industrialisation, the siesta has gone, but they still stay up just as late?
I was one of those sad tourists, trying to find dinner at 8pm and nobody open yet.
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There's nothing "weird" about it. It's a natural result of their climate the time of day. The east of the north Atlantic is typified by temperatures which peak not in the middle of the day but in late afternoon. The point of sleeping through the part of the day where it's hottest is to go and enjoy the day when it's more pleasant to go out. You see this throughout the middle east and north Africa too,
On the flip side last time I went to Texas the hotel concierge was horrified by the mere idea that I walk to
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Weird means unusual. They no longer sleep after lunch, and along with Italy and Portugal get the least amount of average sleep in Europe.
Yes, weird because of climate and history.
Texas cities lack footpaths/sidewalks. That's weird too. Texans like being weird, I think. You and I too. Who wants to be typical?
But Spaniards should sleep more, like they used to, and so should I. I'ts healthy.
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wtf seriously? No dinner by 8pm. That's some crazy shit. I'm in bed by 8pm so I can get up at 4am. Guess I should avoid Spain. Shame, seems like a neat country to visit one day.
Re:Take Spain as an example. (Score:4, Informative)
During the war, Franco wanted Hitler to help Spain take Gibraltar.
Actually, Hitler wanted Franco to take Gibraltar.
Franco refused because the British would retaliate by taking the Canary Islands.
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Having been to Tenerife, I can safely claim that the Brits already have it.
Re:Take Spain as an example. (Score:5, Funny)
General Franco was Spain's dictator between the late 1930s and the mid 1970s which was when he died.
Is he still dead?
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Re: Take Spain as an example. (Score:2)
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Citation? Because I can't find one, just Sweden changing in 1967, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] which has a couple of other examples at the bottom of the page like Iceland the next year.
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I wounder if AmoredDragon can come up with a similar slur to Douchelanders for Austria.
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How many died in the battle that preceded it? Do you kampf to remember what Hitler was, if not a douchelander?
Next time change to 1/2 hour DST (Score:5, Interesting)
Its obviously to late to do anything for this event, so how about:
In March, we move the clocks forward a half hour, and then leave them there.
Thus we end up with permanent 1/2 hour daylight saving.
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Please don't. The world is complicated enough with the British using the term "half {hour}" to mean an hour earlier than Germanic languages "half {hour}". The last thing we need is to deal with Americans booking times on the hour only the rest of the world to figure out which half we're talking about.
Half hours are stupid. I mean it's better than Nepal with their 45min offset, but that shouldn't be the bar.
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Newfoundland and Labrador has had a half hour difference time zone since 1935, seems to work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Newfoundland does. Labrador doesn't.
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Officially Labrador does have the same time zone, practically only the SE of Labrador observes Newfoundland time according to Wiki.
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Yes, that's what happens when you try and dictate silly timezone things to people. Newfoundland is a small island that was an independent British dominion when timezones were formalized, and they didn't send anybody to the conference. They eventually realized they needed some standardization and picked something within a minute of St. John's solar time, which is in the extreme east. Most of Labrador, in the west, thought that was dumb and so, outside of a little chunk around the ferry landing, they don't us
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I live in Az and we do it. There is a slight truth to the waiting for the bus in the dark, but the heat is so insane that workers prefer getting started in the dark with lights and quitting when it gets 115F (46C). I worked Mid Shift in server-farms almost my entire career so my only complaint was how much work going BACK is vs going forward.
As a grade schooler...loooong ago, I was a late bird, and started school at 09:00, it was always light.
For the love of all that is holy... (Score:3, Interesting)
just fucking pick one and do it. Or, if you're really on the fence, split the difference and shift the clocks permanently by 30min *once*. Don't want kids going to school in the dark? Stop making them go so god damned early during the darkest fucking months, change the entire K-12 school year to have the winter off instead of summer, there are plenty of options. All the issues people have with one or the other (or mine) can all be separately solved outside of this in less annoying ways than this changing the clocks bullshit.
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just fucking pick one and do it. Or, if you're really on the fence, split the difference and shift the clocks permanently by 30min *once*.
Or you can change the clocks and have the best of both.
All the issues people have with one or the other (or mine) can all be separately solved outside of this in less annoying ways than this changing the clocks bullshit.
It is easier to change the clocks. If you don't like changing them get clocks that change themselves.
Re: For the love of all that is holy... (Score:2)
I agree that I donâ(TM)t care much about which mode we go to. Having lived in northern parts of the USA I like getting up when itâ(TM)s dark and having the light in the evening, but Iâ(TM)d rather the time zone was called standard time. I just want to avoid the sudden loss or gain of an hour.
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Or schools and such can adjust their schedules as needed. How about adjusting standard time by 30 min putting it right in the middle all year long? :-)
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There is a statistically significant increase in deaths when the time change occurs. This proves that it is not simple for at least some people.
If you want to appeal to technology then go all the way! Propose using hours from sunrise at your location for daily activities, plus a universal time constant which applies even on other planets. You can calculate what the time is anywhere from your smartphone, right?
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Or you can change the clocks and have the best of both.
There is no best of either.
It is easier to change the clocks.
No. It's easier to actually solve problems rather than slapping a lazily conceived idea on as a band-aid.
If you don't like changing them get clocks that change themselves.
No. I don't want the clocks to change on a regular basis. Period.
We built DST changes into the hardware (Score:2)
just fucking pick one and do it.
Sometimes we cannot. Since the 1980s, and possibly earlier, our electronic clocks have been building DST changes into the hardware.
Generations of electronics needs to be replaced first.
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If that were true (and it isn't), anything made before 2007 would already be obsolete. That's when the most recent change to DST start/end dates was made. I have a couple of clocks which accommodate DST, but it's just a simple on/off switch.
Do you think they sell electronic clocks made specifically for Arizona, or other areas which don'
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>Since the 1980s, and possibly earlier, our electronic clocks have been building DST changes into the hardware. Generations of electronics needs to be replaced first. If that were true (and it isn't) ...
Funny, we were dealing with timers with the time change built-in in the late 1980s.
anything made before 2007 would already be obsolete.
Not really. The discrete chips of the 1980s are often rolled into modern system-on-chip designs. They are often compatible with existing system software that way.
That's when the most recent change to DST start/end dates was made. I have a couple of clocks which accommodate DST, but it's just a simple on/off switch.
To a programmer, not a user. And the firmware in such devices is rarely user upgradable.
Do you think they sell electronic clocks made specifically for Arizona, or other areas which don't use DST?
I recall our software used in industrial equipment having to be configured for such a situation. Our equipment was expensive and cam with quite a bit of customer training and supp
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Perhaps you look up to anyone who can press a pushbutton or flip a switch to be a "programmer", but I don't.
I recall our software used in industrial equipment having to be configured for such a situation.
So, it wouldn't have to be replaced, as you claimed.
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Even if that were true, which it definitely isn't, I don't care. Do it anyway.
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Even if that were true, which it definitely isn't, I don't care. Do it anyway.
Sorry, clock/timer chips have had them, since the 1980s at least. Not all the devices using such chips or their modern SOC equivalents are user configurable.
Re: The mil-spec STFU Already solution (Score:2)
tune your shortwave radio to 2.5mhz 5mhz 10mhz 15mhz or 20mhz
Re: The mil-spec STFU Already solution (Score:2)
tune your shortwave radio to 2.5mhz 5mhz 10mhz 15mhz or 20mhz WWV Ft Collins Colorado
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Zulu time, aka Coordinated Universal Time (UTC), aka Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) does not solve anything.
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It's never 50/50 like they portray and a majority already want it.
Blanket (Score:4, Insightful)
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The problem with blankets, is not that they are too short, its that they are too narrow.
They need to be made 1 meter wider.
(of course this also applies to top sheets)
Re:Blanket (Score:5, Funny)
The real problem with blankets is how, in the middle of the night, they somehow magically move completely over to the woman's side of the bed without her being responsible for it at all.
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My wife somehow manages to rotate the blanket by 90 degrees while she's sleeping. It always end up oriented incorrectly sooner or later.
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The Swedish have a solution for this. Each have your own single size blanket or duvet, even when sleeping on a king bed together. As an added advantage you can each have a heavy or light blanket to suit your preference, definitely a bonus when your better half start going through the change with night sweats etc.
I first encountered this in Hotel Rival in Stockholm, with the ABBA answer to the fab four gazing down over us while we slept (there was a huge pic of them over the bed) . It was a bit creepy at fir
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My ex wife and I did this, as she was a prolific blanket thief. She had this tuck and roll method that would leave me waking up freezing in the middle of the night with no blanket. I wised up and got a second blanket for myself.
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Wait for menopause, then they move in the opposite direction.
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The REAL problem is that you should have a warmer room so the blanket's size is inconsequential.
Increased productivity gains should benefit ALL people resulting in them working 30 hours per week with shorter work days so then they have more time in the day as well as more jobs to employ people. That would do more than just give 1 more power per day of sunlight (assuming a 40 hr work week which here has turned into 45 or more since the 90s... but then being far enough north, it's not relevant for a few mo
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The problem is that if your blanket is too short, cutting a piece off one end and sewing it on the other, will not make it longer.
This is a dumb staying by people who don't understand that a blanket that covers your head but not your feet isn't comfortable to use. No one claims the day is longer, the claim is the "useful" day is longer, because people get fuck all done before work.
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That's on the individual and not society. I have friends that wake up early so they can work out. I get up early for work and do so on my days off out of habit.
As far as DST or ST goes, I'd prefer we just stick to one but oh well. ST would be preferable but really, just stop changing it. Oh well. Life goes on.
Not just americans (Score:3)
We're sick of it here in the UK too. The problem is some people who prefer lighter evenings want permanent BST, others like me who prefer lighter mornings want permanent GMT/UTC.
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No, we're not.
Re: Not just americans (Score:3, Insightful)
Its not the physically changing the clocks thats the issue you idiot, its the general pointless hassle of it.
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Its not the physically changing the clocks thats the issue you idiot, its the general pointless hassle of it.
"Its" denotes ownership e.g. "a troll picks its nose". Contractions are denoted with an apostrophe. "It's not" .. "that's" .. "it's".
Otherwise you might well be on to something labeling me an idiot. I have no clue what you are even trying to say.
It is not the act of changing the clocks that is the issue. It is the pointless hassle of changing the clocks. How would such language constitute anything other than a distinction without a difference?
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" How would such language constitute anything other than a distinction without a difference?"
Says the man without a job, kids, elderly parents or any kind of responsibilities.
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" How would such language constitute anything other than a distinction without a difference?"
Says the man without a job, kids, elderly parents or any kind of responsibilities.
If by "it" you meant something other than changing the clock you could have used the English language to communicate this. Neither myself nor anyone else can read your mind.
Re: Not just americans (Score:2)
Pretty fucking obvious to anyone with a normal brain aspie.
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Its not the physically changing the clocks thats the issue you idiot, its the general pointless hassle of it.
Pretty fucking obvious to anyone with a normal brain aspie.
It is obvious to you because you were thinking it and you believe it. To someone who doesn't know what you are thinking and has a different value judgement of what constitutes a hassle and therefore no reason to infer it refers to anything other than changing clocks your remarks are nonsensical.
Personally I see no hassle with non-clock related processes involving optionally going to sleep a little earlier once a year and since what "it" means is outside of the subject of the sentence and was not qualified
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We're sick of it here in the UK too. The problem is some people who prefer lighter evenings want permanent BST, others like me who prefer lighter mornings want permanent GMT/UTC.
We're sick of the ritual of people whining about doing something that takes a few seconds every six months. Freezing time was tried in the US in the 70s and people hated it so much it didn't last a year.
And who would read slashdot without these semi-annual debates?
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This isn't "trolling". Just because you are one of the whiners does not make it trolling. There is no -1 disagree, or -1 I hate facts.
The reality is that outside of a vocal majority of nerds on slashdot who come out twice a year to whine about how DST raped and killed their sisters (i.e. the real trolls), most people do not have any strong opinions on it.
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We had a referendum here in BC, no, actually a Province wide official survey in 2019, 93% in favour of scrapping the time change. There was a referendum here in 1952 where 54% voted in favour of introducing daylight savings time. Alberta also had a referendum where something like 52% voted to keep the time change, so being huge supporters of direct democracy, they scrapped it.
People do care. We will see how it goes this winter as we stayed on DST. it was nice this morning not having the time change.
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If that were true, there would not be a bill sitting on the desk of someone in the Senate that refuses to bring it to the floor for a vote. It passed the House already. So clearly quite a few people want to stop changing the clocks as well.
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Honestly, I'd be happier with DST if we moved that shit to a Wednesday so everyone could equally suffer from sleep deprivation for a bit. They'd change their tune then. Instead, we do it on a Sunday morning when most people don't notice. Fuck the essential workers, they just keep society going, who cares if their sleep gets screwed up because they get up at 4am every day.
Law is not enough (Score:2)
Going to school in the dark? (Score:4, Insightful)
That's a problem? As someone from a northern climate, it baffles me that the fear of the dark is this powerful. I doubt predators lurking in the shadows are put out by a difference of 60 minutes. "Oh drat! My abduction is foiled by a clock adjustment. Curses!"
Re:Going to school in the dark? (Score:4, Insightful)
So... you have never had to walk along a country road with vehicle headlights blinding you every few seconds?
Perhaps something an adult can tolerate but a 5 to 7 year old?
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I walked a quarter mile to the bus stop. The dark was not a particular problem.
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Your old. Kids TODAY don't walk anywhere. Their parents don't think they are capable. They are "sure" that they'll be abducted during their 1 mile walk. I literally hear this stuff from coworkers with kids. It's scary to me. I grew up so much different then today's over-managed children.
Re:Going to school in the dark? (Score:4, Interesting)
So... you have never had to walk along a country road with vehicle headlights blinding you every few seconds?
Perhaps something an adult can tolerate but a 5 to 7 year old?
The person you're replying to said "as someone from a northern climate". They're telling you that regardless of the DST changes, where they live, school starts while it's dark some of the time.
How many kids in kindergarten to grade two are walking (busy) country roads to school? Sounds unlikely and rare. Rural kids are typically transported to/from school by bus, specifically because walking - light or dark - isn't practical.
The "kids in the dark" thing is just boogeyman fearmongering.
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The kids in the dark thing is an excuse. Nobody wants to say "it sucks to get up an hour earlier in the winter."
I also grew up in the far north. Getting up in the dark sucks. Getting up an hour earlier than that sucks even more.
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Let each school and community decide on a policy that works best for them instead of forcing everyone to use the same stupid system.
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So... you have never had to walk along a country road with vehicle headlights blinding you every few seconds?
Kids walking country roads? From the country that infamously has school busses everywhere, and where most of the population worships at the altar of Ford? I'll take made up non-existing scenario for $50 Jim. You guys don't even walk to your own letterbox.
In 1974 kids walked to school in the morning (Score:2)
Now most kids are driven to school by their parents.
Re:In 1974 kids walked to school in the morning (Score:4, Funny)
In 1974 kids walked to school in the morning... uphill, in the snow. Then in the evenings they walked home, uphill again, and in the snow again.
How do I know? Because I was one of those kids. So you can take my word as gospel.
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You had your own socks? Boy, you were lucky. I had to share a single pair of socks with my nine brothers and sisters.
Re:In 1974 kids walked to school in the morning (Score:4, Informative)
My father actually did walk to school uphill both ways. He also walked downhill both ways but he never mentioned that part.
Out the door, downhill, across the creek, then uphill to school/home.
I give it 4 months... (Score:3)
Tops.
Living in the EU I like the change (Score:2)
We've just gone back to standard time and it was nice to get some daylight back in the morning.
Sure you miss it late in the afternoon but who goes out when it's cold?
The extra ligh you get in the summer months is much nicer.
Some people complain it throws their life off twice per year but those same people will happily take their holidays in places like Portugal or Greece that are in a different timezone, they would even go shopping in London what is a
The problem is businesses. (Score:2)
The issue of daylight savings has largely been solved by shifting clocks a minute every day for sixty days. The obvious problem is that we didn't build our electronics based on the concept of variable lengths in the days. However, we could mandate that all new electronics either have a built-in calendar, have NTP capability, use celluar towers for synchronization, or not have a clock at all and at the end of a decade or two we could switch to a much healthier approach. However, it will never happen because
Why is this an issue? (Score:2)
99% of people don't want to change time twice a year, and it is known to be unhealthy. But we can't agree on DST or ST -- not surprising given the size of the country and the fact that timezones were drawn in a very different age. The further north you are the more the time of winter daylight matters, while in the south it is summer daylight which is more coveted. People on one edge of current timezones often have different desires than those on the other edge, particularly Central, which is especially larg
No science-based debate about Standard Time (Score:2)
Look if you go (Score:2)
On the other hand if you go right you have to walk a bit longer through a "bad" neighbourhood.
Neither choice is perfect but not deciding after a while becomes its own problem.
Not deciding, and maintaining the status quo, is also a decision. Sometimes the differences are so marginal merely debating one or the other is a waste of time but we can't always know that before debati
Eliminating DST doesn't involve the Senate (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd note that eliminating Daylight Saving Time doesn't require Congressional involvement. Any state can do it by simply declaring they will no longer use DST. Then they're on standard time all year, no changing clocks anymore. It's only eliminating Standard Time and going to DST all year that requires Congressional action.
As for daylight hours, for most of the year we get plenty of sunlight hours in the evening even on standard time. Between eliminating the headaches of the clock change twice a year and the demonstrated improvements from better alignment with normal sleep cycles, that seems to outweigh the short-term complaints about going to all-year standard time. People always complain about any change regardless, we'd hear the same complaints about switching to all-year DST, so I don't see any merit in considering the complaints qua complaints when deciding. The basis of the complaints, yes, but those boil down to "I don't like it." and only apply to a few weeks once a year (at the other switch the complainers get more of their preference) and that's not a very solid basis for ignoring the benefits.
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Any state can do it by simply declaring they will no longer use DST.
And any state won't just arbitrarily do it because one thing that is far more annoying than changing clocks twice a year is remembering which state has which stupid timezone. At least the vertically stacked ones can be easily guessed. Imaging South Dakota having a different timezone than North Dakota and Nebraska. It would be a right royal pain in the arse for any international or interstate business.
Heck my own personal experience is I found out I lost my job on the news. At 9am on breakfast news they anno
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As if interstate/international business doesn't already involve keeping track of which timezone the other party's in?
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As if interstate/international business doesn't already involve keeping track of which timezone the other party's in?
I'm in Canada and there have been so many provinces changing lately I'm no longer clear on any of their timezones, but I'm sure once it settles it will become second nature again. There are indeed not really many situations where it matters anyway.
Myself, I'm super happy to have not changed the clock back this morning. I prefer the permanent DT, but would have been fine with permanent ST too. I was part of the huge majority who wanted to simply pick either one and stick with it.
Nice try (Score:2)
Sync watches (Score:2)
Media coverage (Score:2)
Years of "changing clocks gives you heart attacks" has been replaced with "not changing clocks can kill you".
I would love to find the 'reporters' who you know are out there who have written both articles... and the people who directed them to write them, and just exile them to Russia where they belong.
Tried and reversed in 1974, and not healthy ... (Score:2)
Permanent Daylight Savings Time was tried and reversed in 1974, because people hated it ...
Source: NY Times [archive.org] and Washingtonian [archive.org]
In Canada, the three Western provinces (British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan) moved to permanent daylight savings today.
The team of doctors in Canada analyzed available research on what permanent daylight savings would do to human health, and recommended that permanent standard time be used instead [nih.gov].
As they should (Score:2)
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Western side of a zone: Standard Time is better
Eastern side: Daylight Saving is better.
Also, the further north you live makes a difference on the impact of seasonal times. Living on Eastern Side further north in the U.S. you'll find that summer would result in 4 AM daylight. Really fun when you have diurnal animals that want to be fed.
Everything tRump wants is bad for the country! (Score:2)
We call it Standard Time because it IS the STANDARD! Daylight Saving Time needs to die!!!
Let us not forget that DST year round was tried in the 70's and was a dismal failure and, sadly, many refuse to learn from history. Why do so many feel the need to repeat that failure? We really should be giving year long STANDARD time a try instead of the DST garbage they are trying to foist on an entire nation again!
If anyone wants an extra hour of sunlight in the evening then they should be the ones to get up an ho
I don't know which is worse... (Score:2)
Getting off at 5:30 pm and it's already night time. Or walking in the grocery story and they're already playing Christmas music.
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China does that. Except they don't. Bejing decrees it and the locals just use their own unofficial time zones.
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We don't trick or treat anymore. All the parents are scared shitless that all their neighbors are poisoning all the candy. Now they have school festivals, where presumable parents supply the candy, and I guess the assumption is all parents are good people. Right.
Honestly, it's nice not having people knock on my door anymore. I don't see the Mormons or the Jehovah witnesses anymore either. It's great.