Japanese Bank to Stop Allowing ATM Cards, PCs For Account Access (nikkei.com) 123
Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group plans to launch Emut Bank in early 2027 as the first digital bank affiliated with a major Japanese financial institution to eliminate ATM cards, "instead having customers confirm identities using the bank's smartphone app for additional security amid a rising tide of cyberattacks," reports Nikkei Asia Review. The smartphone app will also be the only way to manage deposits, with no PC-based banking. From the report: Security has become a greater concern recently. As artificial intelligence advances, Japan has seen a surge in cyberattacks targeting companies, as well as a rise in phishing attacks aimed at stealing personal information, often targeting bank accounts. The technology being used by Emut was developed by Seven Bank, the consumer finance unit of Seven & i Holdings, operator of 7-Eleven convenience stores. Emut customers will be able to withdraw money from Seven Bank's roughly 28,000 ATMs. The network is expected to gradually expand to cover the 16,000 or so ATMs at FamilyMart convenience stores. Although MUFG Bank ATMs will not be accessible, MUFG will consider changing this in the future.
Scrapping cash cards represents a shift in what has for decades been consumers' main method of withdrawing money. The former Sumitomo Bank -- a predecessor of Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corp. -- is believed to have been Japan's first bank to implement cash cards, in 1969. The step away from cash cards by MUFG, Japan's largest financial institution, is likely to spur other banks to follow suit. [...] Eschewing cash cards will reduce Emut's costs, which will let it offer interest rates on deposits that are expected to be higher than MUFG Bank's usual 0.5%, depending on the terms. Interest can be paid out daily, rather than twice a year -- a first for a Japanese bank.
Scrapping cash cards represents a shift in what has for decades been consumers' main method of withdrawing money. The former Sumitomo Bank -- a predecessor of Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corp. -- is believed to have been Japan's first bank to implement cash cards, in 1969. The step away from cash cards by MUFG, Japan's largest financial institution, is likely to spur other banks to follow suit. [...] Eschewing cash cards will reduce Emut's costs, which will let it offer interest rates on deposits that are expected to be higher than MUFG Bank's usual 0.5%, depending on the terms. Interest can be paid out daily, rather than twice a year -- a first for a Japanese bank.
Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:5, Insightful)
How anyone can trust their portable spyware device with banking information is beyond me.
Re:Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:2)
My bank doesn't allow me to deposit checks via the web, only through the app. I also don't have my desktop PC with me when I'm out of the house.
Re: (Score:3)
My bank doesn't allow me to deposit checks via the web, only through the app.
That is the ONLY thing I do with the phone app. Once I'm done depositing the check the app gets removed from my phone.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:5, Informative)
It is. Your phone is something your card isn't: full time long distance remotely hackable. Your card can only be hacked by close contact or short distances if you have NFC. Other than that it needs to be inserted into something to be accessed. Your phone is accessible 24/7.
Re: Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:4, Informative)
So an app is defacto more secure than app AND a card since there is less attack surface. A banking app is protected by the phone's screen lock / biometric protection, integrity / attestation services in the OS, trusted execution & keystore in hardware, and any additional MFA within app itself. That doesn't mean banks should be complacent since apps do have their own means of attack - phishing, rooted devices, replay attacks and so on to worry about. But the ability for thieves to systematically clone and steal money is far less.
Re: Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:2)
Card compromising implies close access to the card, committing the owner or compromising the equipment that would otherwise legitimately access the card. Phones can be compromised remotely without any of the above.
And an argument can be made that any type of MFA that relies on the access device as a second form of authentication becomes a single form of authentication.
There is no such thing as absolute security. Every security measure is only secure until someone breaks it. It's always a question of "when",
Re: Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:2)
*compromising the owner
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, sure, you can access my phone remotely ... how? ... how?
You can add to my banking app a new recipient
You can transfer all my money, fake my face recognition, bypass the security set up in the banking backend: how?
My transfer limit is 20,000THB - and requires face recognition. My monthly transfer limit is 50,000THB.
You can not change that with "hacking".
- you have to change it
- I get an SMS
- I have to approve it
- it takes 3 weekdays until it is active
- and: requires face recognition to get activated
The
Re: (Score:2)
Oh the irony. "you American Yahoos". Bro, I never even set foot on that continent.
You're so full of yourself and detached from reality you might as well accept you're in Narnia. You have the audacity to call others haters, and yet, you're the one being abusive towards others. While I attempted a constructive discussion, you just downright went to uncalled for low blows. Beyond what I already said, I'm not going to entertain this anymore, you're not worth it. Keep the bike. Have a good evening.
Re: (Score:3)
Has there ever been an example of someone's device being hacked in a way that allowed the hacker to access their banking app directly? I don't recall any, and both Android and iOS was pretty well locked down when it comes to accessing app data, or controlling the device remotely. It was actually controversial when introduced on Android, as it messed with a lot of accessibility apps like screen readers.
The far more likely route into your bank account is by SIM cloning or compromising your email account. The
Re: (Score:2)
Mine isn't.
No idea what kind of phone you have that a remote attacker can find tour banking app and "hack it".
This is an absurd stupid idea that a random attacker can access your phone when you are passing by an ATM and can sneak up behind you, fetching the money you involuntarily dispensed.
Re: (Score:2)
My banking app? None. I don't use any.
However, most phones nowadays are smartphones that are always connected. They have pre-installed apps you can't remove or control. Be it Android or iPhone, they're pretty much blackboxes. They're not yours.
And because they're generally always connected, they're more susceptible to be remotely hacked. An attacker doesn't need to access your phone when you're passing by an ATM. If you have a phone, you have a liability.
Re: (Score:1)
TFS doesn't say they're banning only non-technical people from using PCs.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
PCs should be exclusive to technical people.
I tend to define personal computer as having a mouse and keyboard. USB ports. Decent monitor capable of varied use including entertainment or gaming that doesn't require a jewelers loop.
You know, what Apple anti-advertised back when the kids were questioning TF the Boomers are 'putering on about.
For Gen Touch N' Tell, driving a PC is a technical skill. Don't believe me? Ask them to use a pencil. Take three steps back first, watch the nostrils, and tell them to keep it above the belt. It's OK, the erase
Re: Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:5, Interesting)
And when they lose their phone? Or it's stolen? Or dropped in the ocean during a vacation?
This is absolutely a stupid idea and needs to be killed off right quick. A single point of failure is no way to manage your money.
Re:Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:5, Informative)
I left my phone in an Uber last month. 9 out of 10 of the 'recovery' options were tied to logging into the app. (especially when you include all the '2-factor' logins I needed for email access and the like.)
I eventually found a simple flat form that just asked for a phone number and they'd look it up on their logs. (It was not easy to get to.)
The modern world has taken 'single-point-of-failure' to the extreme. Now it's the same single-point for 80% of the processes in your life.
Re: (Score:2)
The last time I bought a new phone (due to the old one not charging via its USB port) I literally had to charge its battery with a funky external charger (it was one of the few phones in the modern era that still had an external battery) to get enough charge in there so it could connect to my WiFi to let me hit what I needed to hit in order for Google to accept the login on my new phone as legit. (both phones are Android)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The modern world has taken 'single-point-of-failure' to the extreme. Now it's the same single-point for 80% of the processes in your life.
Fuck 'em.
Whip out the ol' checkbook to pay the dollar amount. Micro-agress the math by hand in the check register. Legibly.
Trigger every warning by giving them the cents in physical coin. Dare them to make sure you gave them the right amount.
As you walk away, lean over and whisper.."EMP, is coming. For you."
Re: (Score:3)
Now it's the same single-point for 80% of the processes in your life.
I used to think these kinds of things happened because of stupidity and lack of foresight... as I grew older, I gradually learned that some of these are intentional. It is easier to control a person who has an enforced weakness.
Re: (Score:1)
And when they lose their phone? Or it's stolen? Or dropped in the ocean during a vacation?
Make objections which don't equally apply to your bank card.
Re:Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:5, Insightful)
Make objections which don't equally apply to your bank card.
If you lose your bank card you call the bank and they ask you a couple of questions then they cancel your existing card and mail you a new one. You have access to your account back in a couple of days. Lose a $1000 dollar smart phone you can't afford to replace instantly and you have no recourse. The bank is shifting the cost of maintaining a much more expensive secure token from itself onto you.
Re: (Score:2)
Regardless of whether you can afford it, how are you going to pay for your new phone when your bank card is on the old, broken/lost phone?
Re: (Score:2)
Well, I rarely buy anything as big/expensive as a smartphone with cash....I'd likely buy a new phone like I did with the one I lost...using a credit card.
While I think the phone only ATM card is stupid....we "do" still have credit cards in our wallets, no?
Re: (Score:2)
And now that we're properly in the weeds where no one will ever read it, let me add that when I went to Panama and CR for 6 weeks I bought a phone in Panama City for $40, and I left my comparatively fancy phone at home. I also bought a used EEE 701 to take with me, and I ran Jolicloud.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:2)
Regular people can also buy a cheap phone for travel, or get insurance on their excessively expensive one. Don't try to make this complicated, it's simple. I don't expect everyone to be a nerd, but I do expect them to know that insurance exists. Anyone who doesn't know today should not be on their OR.
Re:Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:5, Informative)
And when they lose their phone? Or it's stolen? Or dropped in the ocean during a vacation?
Make objections which don't equally apply to your bank card.
If I lose my bank card, I can go to my desktop computer to manage my account.
Re: (Score:1)
Can you use your desktop computer to withdraw cash from your account or deposit a check? Even if you have a scanner, I don't think that the bank's website is capable of that.
Re:Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure what your point is, though. The thread is about why it's much worse to lose your phone when that's the only method to manage your account. How does not being able to deposit a check from a desktop computer affect that?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Only in countries still using checks.
Re: (Score:2)
Japan doesn't really do cheques anymore. Like most developed countries, they have been phased out.
Many people have already been relying on a phone for day-to-day life for decades anyway. Japan was an early adopter of keita-saifu, basically a stored value card replacement that was initially for public transport, but now used for all sorts of purchases. If you loose the card or your phone, you lose the money that was on it too.
This is a country that still uses fax machines. It's not something that has been ru
Re: (Score:3)
Can you use your desktop computer to withdraw cash from your account or deposit a check? Even if you have a scanner, I don't think that the bank's website is capable of that.
Some banks allow it. They give you a one-time code to take to an ATM.
Re:Hope it doesn't happen here (Score:4, Insightful)
And when they lose their phone? Or it's stolen? Or dropped in the ocean during a vacation?
This is absolutely a stupid idea and needs to be killed off right quick. A single point of failure is no way to manage your money.
Over the five years since I last replaced my phone, my entire work and financial life has been woven into a myriad of apps and accounts that I was required to install on my phone. If I have to replace my phone, I'm doomed. If I lose it, even worse. I hate this. I can't even sign my kids out of school without it.
Re: (Score:2)
Android has an auto-backup feature that makes this sort of thing easy. If you buy a new phone, even if you lost the old one, once you log into your Google account it will restore the apps you had installed from Play, and crucially the core data such as login details. It will also save login details to the Google password manager. So logging back in to banking apps is generally straightforward.
If you don't have a Google account or turned backup off, you need to back that data up yourself. There are lots of o
Re: (Score:2)
Then you replace the phone.
Simple.
There is no single point of failure. You still can go to your bank in person, just like you would do if you lose your ATM card. /FACEPALM
IAINWASE (Score:5, Interesting)
I am in no way a security expert. ELI5, please.
Is a phone (which certainly CAN be secured to high levels but in my experience rarely is) inherently more secure than an atm card and pin that only the user knows?
How is a PC "more vulnerable" than a phone?
Re:IAINWASE (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Eschewing Emut will reduce Emut's costs too. Also their revenue, but that's the bed they made. Let them lie in it.
Re: (Score:2)
How is a PC "more vulnerable" than a phone?
PCs are so varied there is no guarantee that the PC has the necessary security hardware. Phones by model either have or do not have security chips like Apple's Secure Enclave or Android Keystore. With any PC, it is down to the individual PC as neither of them have a TPM module. Then we have the issue of the operating system. Even if we limit PCs to Windows only, some people are still running very old Windows that no longer get any updates.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
TPMs are a standard feature of modern PCs. The only reason they aren't putting out some "super secure" PC app for accessing accounts is that they don't want to.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:IAINWASE (Score:4, Insightful)
If that were the problem, the bank would be saying "No PCs with the exception of those running our new banking application, downloadable via the Microsoft Store, that requires TPM 7.1 to run".
No the problem is they're cheap and would rather support easy-to-steal-phones exclusively than issue secure ATM cards and have a website.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: IAINWASE (Score:2)
Practically every PC still running has a TPM in the CPU.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: IAINWASE (Score:2)
It means that you're an extreme niche case thinking your situation is representative, which is typical of slashdotters but still inexplicable.
Re: IAINWASE (Score:2)
This is a problem already solvable by FIDO2 and webauthn, both completely open standards already widely in use. I personally carry a fido2 card in my wallet and a yubikey on my keychain. Some banks have finally started implementing it. The card works great with my phone via nfc, and doesn't rely on device hardware, and the bank can require that it's locked with a pin, which is baked into the standard, making it a true 2fa authentication, unlike that annoying, insecure SMS code crap they like to rely on.
Whil
Re: (Score:2)
This is a problem already solvable by FIDO2 and webauthn, both completely open standards already widely in use. I personally carry a fido2 card in my wallet and a yubikey on my keychain. Some banks have finally started implementing it. The card works great with my phone via nfc, and doesn't rely on device hardware, and the bank can require that it's locked with a pin, which is baked into the standard, making it a true 2fa authentication, unlike that annoying, insecure SMS code crap they like to rely on.
While nothing is truly phish proof, to phish this you're literally talking about needing to convince the mark to hand over their session keys. Possible on a PC web browser, but not easily done. But on a native application? Forget about it.
The issue of PCs being seen as less secure cannot be fixed with a fido card. Neither is there a need to poorly reinvent the wheel by using a fido card. Bank cards already have embedded security chips. If the real issue was authentication (It most certainly is not) at worst all you would need is a cheap card reader that costs $15.
Re: (Score:2)
The issue of PCs being seen as less secure cannot be fixed with a fido card.
I don't think so. There are ways of tightening the security model so that even attacks on a compromised system are highly impractical.
Neither is there a need to poorly reinvent the wheel by using a fido card.
This isn't reinventing the wheel. The technology already exists, and it's already in widespread use.
Bank cards already have embedded security chips. If the real issue was authentication (It most certainly is not) at worst all you would need is a cheap card reader that costs $15.
No, no, and...good lord...no. Honestly I'm not quite sure where to start telling you what's wrong with this idea, but in fact, THIS is reinventing the wheel, not to mention sticking a square peg into a round hole. Why do I say that? A lot of reasons...Payment cards don't have a
Re: (Score:2)
But to get to the bank in the browser you first have to log in (to the bank) on the phone that in turn needs to reads a QR code on the computer screen.
Only then the bank will allow access on the PC.
In my case on this Linux PC the Firefox browser uses all the security DuckDuckGo offers
Re: (Score:3)
On the ATM card, it's about cost reduction.
On the PC side, it is, fundamentally, a platform that emphasizes flexibility versus mobile that screws flexibility while locking down. So it's mainly about how far a malware could get running against the wishes of the device operator, rather than what a user could do to misbehave. I'm not taking the trade-off, but there is at least a rationale.
Re: (Score:3)
I think by "PC" they mean "browser".
Maybe in Japan they have bank software you download...but probably not.
I'm guessing being able to access accounts via browser is what opens a lot of attack vectors.
Tho if you've got 2FA with SMS, it really can't be all that less secure than a phone app.
I do worry that this could lead to more focus on stealing phones, and of course criminals are only going to try and figure out how they can get unsuspecting people to download hacking apps so they can access their phones in
Re: (Score:2)
Is a phone inherently more secure
Two words: "eSIM". And "No".
Re: (Score:2)
How is a PC "more vulnerable" than a phone?
The browser is sandboxed from everything else, and vice versa.
It's not the hardware, it's the OS.
Re: (Score:3)
How is a PC "more vulnerable" than a phone?
A PC is not necessarily more vulnerable than a phone in theory. In practice it is much more vulnerable.
On a phone you are conditioned to a banking app. The odds of you getting a malicious or fake banking app for your bank is pretty close to zero. The app delivery system is far from perfect, but its not full of fake malicious banking apps for my bank.
On a desktop you are conditioned to use a banking website. Being on a fake website for your bank is just one convincing phishing email away or one malicious goo
Re: (Score:2)
I misspoke. ATM Chip and Pin cards is the threshold not mag stripe readers. chip and pin is way more secure than mag stripes, but chip cards can still be shimmed (skimmed) with the right equipment.
Re: (Score:2)
I am in no way a security expert. ELI5, please.
Is a phone (which certainly CAN be secured to high levels but in my experience rarely is) inherently more secure than an atm card and pin that only the user knows?
How is a PC "more vulnerable" than a phone?
A phone is susceptible to the new trend of mugging people, and instead of just taking cash, forcing them to unlock their phones and transfer money. At least with an ATM card, you have to be in physical proximity to an ATM, which has cameras. The phone-mugging can be done more safely.
meneida (Score:2)
How is a PC "more vulnerable" than a phone?
depends on the user. regular users (the overwhelming majority) have much less control over what a phone can or cannot do vs a pc, and the increased functionality and user control on the pc implies a bigger attack surface. this trend has been going on for a while.
however this news isn't (necessarily) about banning pcs outright. this is just a new bank setting their terms and policy. this might be novelty in japan, but isn't really elsewhere in the western financial complex. e.g. ing (originally a lithuaninan
Please don't say only 'the app' can do this. (Score:5, Funny)
You want real security? Require the person to present themselves to a cashier, we could call them a bank teller, which looks at you (something you own), looks at your photo ID (something you qualify for), and looks at your bank issued ID (something the bank gave you beforehand) as well. You can then present a signed withdrawal ticket that includes the account number (something you know).
Re: (Score:2)
People can still attack such a system..
Photo IDs can and have been forged, or can just be stolen and reused if someone looks similar enough - an exact match is impossible because you need to factor in age, lighting, appearance changes like a lack of shaving etc.
The account numbers can easily be discovered, and lists of them often leak.
A signature is totally worthless as a form of authentication, there are plenty of places you could copy it from or you can just do something random and noone will check it any
Re: (Score:2)
Or was this an attempt for you to look like a very smart boy?
Re: (Score:2)
Nobody, including the OP, said that nobody could defeat "such a system." Would you say that people can break into vaults, so there is no sense in having them? Or how about there is no point in having cameras because they can't stop a bank robbery? Maybe there is no need for security guards because someone might have a better gun? The way security works is that you have multiple layers to protect and additional measures to support accountability in the event of a breach. The more layers the fewer people who
Re: (Score:2)
Would you say that people can break into vaults, so there is no sense in having them?
If a slashdot user becomes frustrated, they are more likely to retrench to a binary stance - A is the only possible way, or conversely, A is utterly evil. It is exaggeration used as emphasis.
Re: (Score:2)
Photo IDs can and have been forged, or can just be stolen and reused if someone looks similar enough
I don't think I've ever heard of a bank fraud committed by the technique of finding a person who looks just like the person whose ID was stolen. This would be such a hit or miss proposition (what are the chances that the person stealing the ID has a confederate that looks like the stolen ID?) that I'm hard pressed to believe it happens.
...
The biggest security aspect of the traditional cashier withdrawal system was familiarity - people regularly visited their local bank and knew the staff.
The biggest security aspect of the traditional cashier withdrawal system is that it can't be done anonymously. The person faking an identity will have to personally be at ri
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Please don't say only 'the app' can do this. (Score:5, Interesting)
Sadly, we continue to move closer to a world where it is inevitable. Already there are things I'm no longer permitted to do because I don't have a smart phone. Fortunately, for now, these are things I don't care about. For example, many sportsball places won't let you enter their stadium without a smart phone because tickets must be purchased through their app -- no paper tickets, no paying with cash or directly with a credit card. I understand some states have options for using your phone as your drivers license and for showing proof of auto insurance. Right now it's still optional, but I fear they day I go to renew my license and will be denied because they've made it mandatory. My insurance company (and I'm guessing most of them) won't mail me a card but will at least give me a PDF I can print.
A few years ago my employer rolled out a two-factor authentication system where people have to use their smart phones to log in. When they rolled it out the app required a newer version of Andriod which basically meant your phone needed to be less than a year old. Worse, there were brand new phones being sold at the time that didn't meet their requirements, so it needed to be a high-end phone. There were enough of us that didn't have appropriate phones or tablets that they had to also hand out rolling-code security devices.
Re: (Score:3)
A few years ago my employer rolled out a two-factor authentication system
The key word here is "employer". You want me to use your app? You give me a phone that will run it. Because mine [bigcommerce.com] won't.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
A few years ago my employer rolled out a two-factor authentication system where people have to use their smart phones to log in.
What pisses me off is that "two factor authentication" is supposed to mean more than one form of authentication. That could mean anything from having multiple passwords, to security questions, to... anything. However, to tech companies, what it really means is, "Only phones -- and exclusively phones -- are permitted."
As one of your fellow weirdos without a smartphone, I concur that it's getting more and more difficult to survive in modern society without one. I'm really worried that it will become common
Re: (Score:2)
You are assuming the bank actually cares about security. They don't. The care about liability. That means if they are not liable for any fraud done by somebody using your identity, they won't do a thing. That applies online as well as offline.
Given that, the person at the bank might look at your credentials (including your face) when you or somebody who claims to be you shows up there, but only to ensure they are not liable.
I don't want this... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's bad enough that we've gone from "Papers please" to having our "papers" automatically transmit their location at all times and now all of our purchases and earnings are auto-tracked and profiled (and we're not even getting into the cameras or "smart TVs".
Never mind the fact that more and more companies are guiding customers away from webpage use to apps on a smartphone. Especially when most PCs these days have just as good of security as phones.
"You will each receive an ~~identity disk~~ SMARTPHONE. Everything you do or learn will be imprinted on this ~~disk~~ SMARTPHONE. If you lose your ~~disk~~ SMARTPHONE or fail to obey commands, you will be subject to immediate de-resolution. That will be all."
Customer-tracking App (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
When I first opened a bank account, the only way to get money in or out of the account was to visit the bank and talk to a teller. This was before ATMs. The bank made you use particular forms for both deposit and withdrawal.
Every pay day, it was always a challenge to get to a bank in time to deposit and take enough cash out for the next few weeks. It was very inconvenient and felt like the bank had all the power in the relationship.
I prefer the convenience we have now and I really love mobile banking.
I gues
Elderly people (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Using only apps is terrible for elderly people. My father is 82 and doesn't have the finger flexibility to enter data on a small app screen. He prefers using a PC; not only does he type better, but he can also see what he's doing much better.
82 year olds doing online banking on a PC scares the shit out of me. You set him up a VM he can use for just the banking stuff right? The sandboxing is the real advantage on mobile, but a VM can get you most of that benefit. The old recommendation of only using a dedicated PC that you use for nothing else never really went away, the systems didn't change, we got lazy.
Not just elders! (Score:2)
People with disabilities even at younger ages.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd guess he also needs reading glasses to read the small text on smartphone screens.
There are people half his age that do.
can I just say that (Score:2)
"operator of 7-Eleven convenience stores"
7-Eleven stores in Japan are superior to all other convenience stores in the world. I think this is partly due to what Japanese consumers demand, and partly that the company is being run competently.
This is modernizing and cutting costs at the same time. That said, I would not want to manage my (brokerage) account on my phone.
Does the "PC" rule encompass tablets too? Or is it just Windows 11 they're targeting as a security problem? So no browser app?
Keeping all the c
Re: (Score:2)
Developers of phone apps might be able to answer this for me.
Maybe it's just HTTPS they don't like? Maybe it's the 'Web' (as opposed to the 'Internet.')
"Banking Apps" on the PC are almost entirely websites being run in a browser. Having actual clients for things hasn't been common for many years....(if it ever was for 'banking' apps.) That means everything happens through a web-server over web protocols.
Are apps on the phones better? You're not using a web-browser anymore, you're using a dedicated
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's the end device, your PC, not the HTTPS/TLS protocol which they don't like. Because (even with microsoft and its shenanigans) a PC is still under the control the user.
They love phone apps because a phone is 100% under the control of apple or google, which they consider the ultimate source of "security" or whatever.
Most banking apps won't run on "de-googled" phones or those with their bootloader unlocked, even when the OS is unmodified.
They do not even work on locked phoned where the AVB key is signed by
Cards are more secure than phones (Score:4, Informative)
This just seems like a pretext for the bank to stalk their customers. The single purpose chip embedded in the card and isn't connected to a global network 24x7 is way more secure than a phone.
Terrible idea (Score:2)
Putting your whole life on your phone just makes it an ever more tempting target.
In Canada, thankfully, all of our major banks still support account access through a normal web browser. I can't see that changing any time soon; I think there would be an uproar if they tried to mandate the use of mobile devices only.
Actually, you do need to use the mobile app to deposit cheques without going into the bank. But cheques are pretty much extinct in Canada nowadays.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I love how millions of individual phones is somehow more tempting of a target than the single web server hosting your banking portal....
well (Score:3)
Technology may prove itself to be inherently untrustworthy, and we may go back to the old "in person doing crap" in the future.
"Stop" implies they are currently operating (Score:2)
This is not a bank, it's a *future* bank.
Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group plans to launch Emut Bank in early 2027
This is not an existing bank, suddenly cutting off ATM cards and PC access. This smells more like a rushed launch in which not all the components (ATM and PC) are ready yet.
If it does happen here to all banks (Score:2)
that will be the day I hire someone to take care of all my banking for me.
MUFG user here, this is not the full story (Score:4, Interesting)
First off, banks are different in Japan. For example, you are forced to open an account at the closest office. When you log in, you enter your branch number and account as part of the process.
To send money with internet banking, you have to pair a phone with a one time password. To do this you have two options.
1. Scan the IC chip if your driver's license or my number card (which is a fancy social security number.) The standard is not the same as NFC, so you still need a specific phone to scan it. Japanese phones generally work, but international iPhones work as well.
2. You can ask for a code to be sent by mail. it will usually arrive within 5 business days.
I use international phones because Japan only sells large slabs nowadays. You can only have one office registered at a time, so I have to do the mailed code for every phone switch.
You may have noticed, but many services are starting to required registering with a phone number which helps to reduce bots and fraud. I don't really see an option for anonymous accounts in the future.
I'm switching to a Kompakt phone in the future which is degoogled so the only reasonable option will be using an old phone for banking. Many other insurance and tax services will also be complicated it impossible this year if you can't scan your my number card. For some reason, my old iphone XS won't read my M Nuimber Card so fuck.
In Japan phones are also used as a way to distribute earthquake warnings and messages to check for safety after a disaster, where some view a smartphone as a social requirement.
No smartphone (Score:3)
Some people on this planet do not own a smart phone, and more importantly do not WANT smart phones.
Any service that claims to be smart-phone only, only exists to sell stupid toy smart phones, and is not reasonable.
Re: (Score:2)
Not everyone has a smart phone. My wife and I have "dumb cell phones" and a land-line. Neither of us can handle QR codes, reply to text messages, or have any kind of phone-based Internet connections. We have no APS on any phone. We can send and receive photos only through our desktop PCs.
I am not anti-technology. After all, I was a software test engineer for over 30 years before I retired. I tested the software used by the U.S. military to fly its space satellites. However, neither my wife nor I are
we already have that shit with revolut (Score:2)
and other banks like erste and their affiliates in Europe.
They absolutely require a fucking app to do any transaction, and their app refuses to run on a rooted phone (they call back to google to verify each time they're used, so there's no obvious, non-intrusive way to bypass it).
And they also impose other stupid and onerous requirements (like having google play services working, only being installed from google play and using a screen lock). They also require intrusive permissions to run, like being able t
More Human Harvesting ... nothing to see here (Score:2)