EU Says TikTok's 'Rabbit Hole' Effect Must Stop (theverge.com) 46
The European Commission has preliminarily found that TikTok violates the Digital Services Act because its For You recommendation algorithm can create a "rabbit hole effect," repeatedly exposing users to potentially harmful content involving topics such as sadness, isolation and body image. TikTok must change the feed's design or potentially face fines of up to 6% of its global annual revenue. The Verge reports: The findings come months after the EU Commission declared that TikTok's design is too "addictive." While TikTok has implemented controls to mitigate the algorithm's "rabbit hole effect," the Commission says its preliminary findings suggest that they're not effective. TikTok must now change the design of its For You feed, or else face fines of up to 6 percent of its global annual turnover. The platform is also facing pressure in the US, with lawmakers and a wave of lawsuits raising concerns about child safety. "Every time a user scrolls or likes a video on TikTok, the algorithm serves more of the same leading users down rabbit holes they cannot easily escape from," Henna Virkkunen, the EU Commission's executive vice president of tech sovereignty, security, and democracy, says in the press release. "Today's preliminary findings show again that TikTok needs to step up its efforts to protect users' well-being, including those of minors."
People are sheep. The state is their shepherd. (Score:1, Troll)
Comforting.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If I were an EU citizen, I could refrain from using tiktok. But I could not refrain from living under a government that thinks I'm a child.
Given the sophomoric nature of your regular posts, you are a child. Have you still not realized that the very things you scream for are also the things destroying this nation?
Re: (Score:2)
They are a bot. Ignore them.
Re: People are sheep. The state is their shepherd (Score:1)
It's nice when things are either blasphemous or superfluous. Much simpler that way.
Maybe I should move to some deep red pocket of somewhere where I could pretend that liberals are cardboard cutouts and not real people who came to their ideas for reasons other than pure malice.
Seems to work for the online all the time crowd of both stripes, so it can't fail irl!
Re:People are sheep. The state is their shepherd. (Score:4, Interesting)
I have one of my installed browsers set to clear cookies and stuff every time I close it. This way, whenever I go to YouTube, it has no idea who I am or what other videos I have watched in the past. The results I get are purely a function of the search terms, with no interference from a recommendation algorithm.
That's how I protect myself from this effect. I highly recommend it to anyone who is concerned.
Of course, Facebook does the same thing, putting all of its users in little echo-chambers that only show it news articles that reinforce what they already believe, creating an illusion of worldwide agreement with them, and giving their opinions a feel of objective truth. My solution to that is: don't use Facebook.
Anyway, if these recommendation algorithms became outright illegal in these contexts, I wouldn't shed a tear. I don't mind them for something like Amazon that wants to know how old your kid is so it can recommend gifts that are age-appropriate or whatever. It's a bit creepy but actually useful and doesn't seem to have this side effect. Not so in the case of information feeds.
Re: People are sheep. The state is their shepherd. (Score:2)
There were no kooks, nutters, or viral conspiracy theories before the internet. Everyone, everywhere, all the time, got all of their information from publications and broadcasters who stringently held themselves to the highest moral, ethical, and professional standards of truth, integrity, and duty to society. If you saw it in print, it was all but guaranteed to be the truth and nothing but.
People also forced themselves to break bread with their ideological opponents and never ever intentionally sought comm
Re:People are sheep. The state is their shepherd. (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately I fear YouTube is a bit more savvy than that.
I watch YouTube videos signed in on my Google TV and it suggests topics that I have shown an interest in or have subscribed to interesting channels.
Occasionally I will look up a topic and watch a YouTube video on my computer using a private/incognito session with cookies and histories deleted. Even with these precautions I will notice some topics will pop up on my TV, even though it should not have associated my computer private browsing with my TV account.
For example, if I do a private session search on my computer for "Shoebill storks", after watching a few videos I will notice that topic will start to pepper my Recommended videos. This has happened more than once for topics like unusual birds, actor's biographies, and musical groups. One notable example was when I watched "Hoist the Colours by The Bass Singers" in a private session. I wanted to hear the song but not have every pirate song or bass singer appear in my Recommended list. The next day that happened even after trying to keep everything separate.
My working hypothesis is they can tell my IP address for my logged in TV account and tie private searches from that IP address to my account. This has happened at least six times. At least I'm lucky they don't cross link my wife's cooking and gardening topics into my Recommended list.
Re: (Score:2)
This way, whenever I go to YouTube, it has no idea who I am or what other videos I have watched in the past. The results I get are purely a function of the search terms, with no interference from a recommendation algorithm.
You'd think this, but you'd only be half-right. Youtube does more than cookie level tracking. It tracks content by IP as well. It looks more random as the algorithm doesn't link your account, likes, followers, comments, etc. but past use still influences the present results. You can check this if you have a couple of networks. Start private browsing sessions on devices on your home network and you'll notice the results are similar to each other to a search, and then repeat the search on your phone (wifi off
Re:People are sheep. The state is their shepherd. (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Of course, Facebook does the same thing, putting all of its users in little echo-chambers that only show it news articles that reinforce what they already believe, creating an illusion of worldwide agreement with them, and giving their opinions a feel of objective truth.
Does it though?
It keeps putting Dem politicians into my feed, but not a single Rep politician. Huh.
I literally block every Dem politician profile now, as an experiment. But there's an endless supply ...
So yes, it has some rabbit hole algorithms. But there are clearly some odd exceptions.
Re: People are sheep. The state is their shepherd. (Score:1)
I know in these parts Iâ(TM)m an outlier but I like the YouTube algorithm and would very much miss it if it were banned. Iâ(TM)ve got loads of creators on my feed who I never wouldâ(TM)ve found without the recommendation system. And I know thereâ(TM)s something new to me out there I will enjoy that it will recommend in the not too distant future. As it does every few weeks.
I also think it would bad in general as new creators would have a far harder time being discovered and weâ(TM)d
Re: (Score:1)
Aw cute! The sheep thinks it's a wolf!
The actual wolves love having people like you around. You make their lives so much easier and they don't need to give you a penny for your efforts.
Legislated to... suck more? (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe it's just me, but I've personally experienced the opposite of the so-called "rabbit hole effect" from algorithmic feeds. The first few videos might be decent, but the more I doomscroll, the more it seems like it scrapes the bottom of the content barrel. Before long, I'm just done with it and close the app because it's just serving up stuff that's no longer entertaining. Of course, my generation grew up with 57 Channels (And Nothin' On), so we turned our entertainment off when it ceased to be worth watching. Also, the TV stayed at home, so that was a bit of a limiting factor, too.
What I don't get about this is that the summary already mentions that the content is making some people depressed. How exactly do they think those people are going to feel when the algorithm is tweaked to serve up even worse content, ostensibly to break their addiction? I'm getting the feeling this was the only solution they could come up with, because imposing actual screen time limits upon adults is still just a little too authoritarian (but you know they'd do it if they could).
Re:Legislated to... suck more? (Score:5, Insightful)
When I line up for my morning coffee, it's still shocking to me seeing people in the queue with their eyes glued on their tiktok's and swiping uninterruptedly. They basically stay 1.5-2 seconds on every video and swipe, for minutes at a time. This is not an isolated case.
Addiction and depression are facts of life. There is a percentage of the population who are caught up in it. Companies should not get a free pass to hurt these people by creating one size fits all products and advertising those products to everybody indiscriminately.
Same argument with children. A child is not an adult, and should not be marketed towards and given an adult experience.
It's time the tech bros are taught a lesson about building products that actually do the right thing by the norms of European society. Or they can just get the hell out of the European market, and tell their investors that the TAM has just been halved.
Re: (Score:1)
When I line up for my morning coffee, it's still shocking to me seeing people in the queue with their eyes glued on their tiktok's and swiping uninterruptedly.
And the difference is...?
Re: (Score:1)
Between what?
Re: (Score:2)
The individualised user tracking is the base problem. Take that tracking away and things will improve a lot. Advertising can function just fine on context alone.
Re: (Score:2)
When I line up for my morning coffee, it's still shocking to me seeing people in the queue with their eyes glued on their tiktok's and swiping uninterruptedly.
Thanks for being professionally offended by a thing.
You know if I commit a crime (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not an accident that when you and me break the law a guy with a gun shows up but when they break the law some meek underfunded bureaucrats show up... It's a completely different system
Re: (Score:2)
And yet, you're still here on Slashdot.
Implying that he isn't committing crimes... I'm not sure, were you trying to shit on the guy and just failed spectacularly or are you an rsilvergun bootlicker, because I don't think I've seen that before!
Re: You know if I commit a crime (Score:2)
Basic human dignity entitles people to make their own life choices, rather than having those choices made for them by a king.
If you ascribe to me the responsibility for your actions, whether beneficial or self-destructive, you have made me your king. Are you sure you want to give up ownership of your own self that way? Because if you say I am responsible for your suicide, or another's, then that's exactly what you've done.
Bullshit (Score:2)
If you have a mentally vulnerable population you don't let companies exploit them. And you don't go booga booga free will to make it okay that companies are exploiting them.
Even if you're too mean spirited or borderline psychopath that you don't care what happens to those people you still have to live in
Re: Bullshit (Score:1)
We actually *don't* ban gambling or alcohol. In many parts of the US, state governments actually run (and advertise!) lotteries, and in a few states (New Hampshire and Pennsylvania come to mind), the state government has the monopoly on consumer alcohol sales.
In recent years, commercial gambling has become legal in more places, marijuana has been legalized in more than half the country, and other narcotics are becoming decriminalized if not legalized in more and more places.
To your point, these policies *ar
Re: (Score:2)
Basic human dignity entitles people to make their own life choices
And basic understanding of psychology entitles us all to the knowledge that humans do in fact not make their own life choices without strong external bias. Like literally no human does.
Humans are manipulated at every step of the human experience, the difference between you and the rest of us is that you seem completely oblivious to that fact or perhaps even in favour of the manipulation (which to be clear would make you a piece of shit).
What is it my man? Are you ignorant or horrible? Time to choose.
Re: (Score:2)
when you and me break the law a guy with a gun shows up but when they break the law some meek underfunded bureaucrats show up
And if I steal a million dollars from the bank, I go to prison. If the bank steals a dollar each from a million people, we call that about a week of bank fees. It's a two-class system and we are not in the right class.
Re: Huh? (Score:1)
Maybe got stuck in vi?
Everyone but self must be held accountable (Score:1)
WTH ?!?! smh (Score:2)
"Every time a user scrolls or likes a video on TikTok, the algorithm serves more of the same leading users down rabbit holes they cannot easily escape from"
Did they remove the off switches from computers and phones in the EU ? I thought that was illegal in Germany.
Go after Wikipedia's rabbit holes too (Score:2)
The USA was going to force Tiktok to sell. (Score:2)
The platform is also facing pressure in the US, with lawmakers and a wave of lawsuits raising concerns about child safety.
A year or so ago, the USA was going to totally take over Tiktok and force them to follow USA rules. What happened to that?
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
A year or so ago, the USA was going to totally take over Tiktok and force them to follow USA rules. What happened to that?
TikTok now refers to the Gulf of Mexico as the Gulf of America, what more do you want?
To The âzNanny Stateâoe Guys (Score:2)
You can't regulate a rabbit Hole (Score:2)
everything (Score:3)
Everything not prohibited is compulsory.