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Technology

Thumb-only Keyboard? 79

Posted by CmdrTaco from the strange-interface-concoctions dept.
Numeric writes " You know a thumb has more usefullness than just for hitchiking...A Stanford Univ. professor is developeing an all-thumb keyboard. A user will wear a glove that reads data by the user depressing "hot spots" on a glove's finger. Of course, the wearer will have to learn "thumbcode". "
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Thumb-only Keyboard? More

Thumb-only Keyboard?

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  • I can understand not trying to encode Unicode on one hand (or even both hands and both feet!) but it doesn't even include European characters

    There is no such thing as Unicode input, and no one seriously uses Unicode anyway. Non-ASCII keyboards are the same as American ones, with additional switches between alphabets or parts of alphabet or shift/prefix/... keys that affect one letter. They are often implemented as key combinations on normal keyboard -- for example, my keyboard switches between ASCII and Cyrillic subsets of koi8 by (Left Shift)+(Right Shift&gt).

  • there's a log in for all you lazy bums.
    l: cypherpunk53 p:cypherpunk I think I think I think that works =)

    ------------------
  • Why am I not surprised? *chuckle* It's an odd world in which we live ...
  • Here's a keen idea for an input device, use just your thumb, but use that Quickwriting layout that was talked about for the PlamPilot a few articals down. Hold your finger together and touch them as surface, and slide around like they said in that artical. None of this tapping business. And possibly faster, atleast it seems so just playing with it here.

  • If you're one of the common right-handed, right-spacebar-thumbed people, you're gonna be hard pressed (ha-ha) when it comes time to type a space.

    What is the sound of one thumb pressing itself?

  • Eeek. My hand is getting cramped up and having muscular spasms just looking at that thing.
  • K, I am sitting here in my office making strange movements with my hands... And I'll tell you this, aside from the fact that I am happy the door is closed so I don't look like I am totally loosing my mine...

    The complexity of the movements needed for this glove looks WAY to deep, but the basic drivers/layout might be used for something much simplier.

    I can tap my fingers to my thumb pretty darn fast.

    I can tap TWO or THREE fingers at a time, in various combonations to my thumb, at the same time, pretty fast too.

    I have two hands.

    So, given that, there are 8 primary combinations (each single finger, on each hand, touching the thumb). Theses should be the 8 most used keys.

    There are then 7 additional two fingers to the thumb at one time combinations on each hand, giving 14 more combinations.

    There are then 4 more combinations of three fingers at a time (slightly more difficult, but easier than some of the contortions that glove looks like) on each hand, giving 8 more combinations. (someone check my math.)

    That is up to 30 keys, with much less work for the user.

    Now, add potential combinations of on finger to thumb on one hand, and one finger to thumb on the other hand at the same time... and the number should jump up quite a bit. Now, THAT, I would consider using... A pair of very easy to use gloves that are much more portable than a keyboard, and maybe faster. Amagine, typing away while doing other things... protable computeing... Input devices are as important as output (remember that all you HUD guys!)

  • Things like this strike me as very important, for thier potential applications to allowing computer access to the handicaped (disabled, whatever the pc term is for them now).

    Although, I believe it's important, I don't particuarlly find it interesting. Because of the fact that qwerty is a standard, and works just fine, it will be very very hard to replace with ANYTHING. People learn it, it's everywhere, it's easy (I can type faster than I can write by hand, and I know I am not the best typessste :-P). Any alternitive to character input to a computer would have to be _significantly_ faster and easier than qwerty to actually get anywhere (thus, I am interested in Via Voice that is suppose to ship in RH 6.0).

    For that reason, I don't think projects like this thumb thing can be significantly viable. This is good, and I am glad someone is trying alternitives, but I think that the goal has to be for the disabled, and something like a low dexterity input device would be better (someone hack character input for a joystick or something.. that would probably be better...)

  • Yes, put the touchpad on the BACK of the glove on the left hand, use your right hand to touch it, and click your left hand fingers together in diffrent configurations for mouse clicks :P Two handed solutions increase the possable input patterns more, makes the mouse work, AND, causes less strain on the hands...

    Someone should bookmark this thread and send it to the wearable people :P

  • Yea, but ONE THUMB? I like the glove idea linked above much better for this :-)
  • I wonder if I still have that old Thrustmaster throttle control thingamajig mark X in the closet. It had a bunch of buttons on it with rockers and more. Perhaps I should try to apply it as an alternative keyboard.

    Has anyone already pulled something like this off?

  • He claims at the end of the article he can reach speeds of 60wpm, with some macro help. Which isn't spectacular, but certainly serviceable.
  • Why can it rest on your chair arm, or hang loosely at your side?
  • I don't know about this one. It seems like it would be hard to achieve any kind of reasonable speed doing this.
  • That's why we have cypherpunks/cypherpunks around. Most of the sites that get linked to from here that require registration have the cypherpunks login set up already, and most of them also work like Slashdot where they use cookies to remember who you are so you don't have to even log in the next time around. I used the cypherpunks login a couple of times a long time ago, and now I can't even remember the last time I was ever pestered by those annoying login screens.

  • So then we'll all evolve to have one digit on our hands....our thumbs.

    Ahahaha!

    What kind of gestures can you make to people with only one digit? Not much variety if you ask me.
  • For a second there I thought somebody had invented one... I could use it. I think it's about time to get off this rock.
  • Clumsy indeed. I'm all for the two ear keyboard! Twice the speed and hands free.
  • Time for my weekly Datahand post. :)

    On the Datahand, [datahand.com] both thumbs are used quite a bit. The right thumb is responsible for space, backspace, number/symbol modeshift, entering mouse mode, and the alt key, and the left thumb does tab, enter, shift, entering character mode, and the ctrl key. Admittedly, I used to use my left thumb for the spacebar, but now even on normal keyboards I use my right thumb, just out of habit.

    The Datahand does a good job of distributing load across all the fingers in a pretty sane way. Their mapping could be improved slightly, but not enough to complain about (as long as you don't want to play games on it).


    ---
    "'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.

  • I can understand not trying to encode Unicode on one hand (or even both hands and both feet!) but it doesn't even include European characters,

    Still, better than the soon-to-be-invented M$ version -- it will speak Code Pages or something bizarre,

    --
  • Think about how it would speed up entry into say the IBM "Itsy".

    Maybe they should take the test experiment with communications over human skin (potential) and measure the nerve impulses in the hand to input information.
  • Precisely.. can't do with one thumb, what can only be done with 8-10 fingers..

    I think they'd be a lot more successfull with a glove that emulates a keyboard... so you can type on the walls, or whatnot and the glove just picks up with key yer typing..
    :wq!
  • The fastest way to get Carpal-Tunnels in your thumb!
  • cypherpunk/cypherpunk works, as always.

    Now quitcha bitchin'.
  • "A.S.L. uses finger spelling for uncommon words and about 6,000 gestures for common words. It's complicated to explain gestures to computers."

    I use a product called "Pop-Mouse" from Pointix [pointix.com]. It listens to a small set of gestures and allows me to directly run programs or fake keystrokes, or popup a menu of options. I have one set of apps, one set of folders and one set of "stamps" (fragments of text) that I use very often, plus a bunch of other things (like running my MP3 player, or pressing F5 to refresh).

    The gestures it allows are; Clockwise circle, Anti-Clockwise circle, shake left-right, shake up-down. It also monitors the (middle of the) edges of the screen, and can be modified by SHIFT and CTRL.

    This program allows me to basically operate my PC one-handed with a single 4-button wheel-mouse. I only need to move to the keyboard when I'm doing an extended amount of typing, which is slowly becoming less frequent. Common text fragments I have on my stamp menu include my various e-mail and web addresses for entry into forms. I'm considering purchasing a set of foot pedals, but then I'd have no use for my left hand at all.

    Keyboards aren't the way to head, gestures are. Does anyone else have anything that listens to gestures?

    Kris.

    Win a Rio [cjb.net] (or join the SETI Club via same link)
  • This looks very neat. However, after trying to move my hand into the various required positions, I think that it would be hard to use. The keyboard encoding map is wonderful, though; this would let me hack together an arbitrary input device with conventional hardware. Thanks to the author for posting it.
  • Does this mean girls will dig us because we only have one finger? Remember, natural selection favors the smart and the attractive. The attractive for obvious reasons. (I mean, given your choice who would you sleep with...) The smart because we can trick 'em. Hmmm... I guess we will evolve into single digit creatures.

    Hey, maybe human is just a stop on the way from monkey to thumb.
  • I really get annoyed at links like this one where you are expected to fill out umpteen registation forms in order to get at the article. MIRROR IT OR STOP IT!

  • Evolution requires the unfit to _not_ procreate.

    The humans who breed the most are (on average) the
    least intelligent/advanced/etc.

    Look around at the most intelligent people you
    know, or even just the people with the physical
    traits that make them somewhat more advanced than
    average, most don't have any kids, or maybe 1. Now
    look around at all the people you see with 4+
    kids... scared yet? You should be. The human race
    is in trouble.

    Just because something might benefit humans, does
    not mean we will evolve in that direction. I saw a
    drawing that a "scientist" made about what we will
    evolve into years back... it was rediculous. The
    creature was short, bald, with long fingers with
    pads on the ends for pushing buttons. This can't
    happen unless all the people who have trouble
    reaching buttons _die_.
  • Using just the thumb, seems to be limiting your speed drastically. You can see the spec here [stanford.edu]. It looks like all control keys take at least two thumbings. Emacs, probably isn't too much fun with this. It also seems like your thumb could get a serious RSI (anyone played with a genesis controller for 6 hours straight?) with continuous use. Also, the lack of an integrated pointer (a la Twidder [handykey.com]) seems like it could pose some problems.

    Now, if you could "thumb" without any glove on, just an electronic eye strapped to your wrist, that would be cool. The image of that sort of reminds me of the "hand talking" that was described in Dune.

    Still, based on the meagre amount of information I have absorbed on thumbing, I think the twiddler is better, if for no other reason that it has a built in pointer. Now if I could just convince the wife-unit that I need to $200 keyboard for my pilot...

    There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself

  • Wearable researchers, myself included, argue that being able to type with one hand 14 hours a day, wearever you are, and simultaneously with whatever else you do during the day, makes 30 wpm text input blisteringly faster than any desktop input -- even, say, desktop input with speeds well in excess of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 wpm. And Twiddlers [handykey.com] can cruise at 60 wpm.

  • Extreme Computing [extremecomputing.com] has now partnered with Ricoh to provide the Magio as a base for a wearable kit [extremecomputing.com]. Total cost under $2000 including M1 and Twiddler.

    I'm not affiliated w/ the company BTW. Saw it on the wear-hard [blu.org] list today.
  • >could they make gloves that would read sign language [mit.edu]...?

    Yes. They have. In fact this hat [mit.edu] does it without gloves.
  • As I observed during a recent /poll that my left thumb is neglected during my vapid typing, I would be more than pleased to strab the aforementioned device to my left thumb. However, I fear its effectiveness will be somewhat marginal as a textual input device--a replacement for my pointing device[0] on my left thumb would be quite welcome.

    Cheers,
    Joshua "No more hate mail, please" Rodd

    [0] Yes, I've read too many IBM manuals. I have a fixed disk within my system unit (to which a pointing device is attached) whereupon rests a color display...

  • wouldn't that start to seriously hurt your thumb after awhile? It's bad enough with the keyboard, with an entire two hands to spread the carpal tunnel syndrome out between..
    but putting all the stress on the thumb? i dunno about that.
  • could they make gloves that would read sign language and use that as a keyboard? do they already?

    was that wierd glove thing they had in the movie "Congo" made up?
  • It sounds like an interesting concept. I'd cherish it if someone could actually make something like the above work. Another idea for supreme portability, ease of use, and just plain innovativeness:
    Perhaps the palms of the gloves could be used as a touchpad...simply use a finger or thumb to navigate, and...well, i'm sure someone could figure out a good way to click. Of course this would require a supremely flexible trackpad, but i'm sure if there were enough demand, it could be done easily enough.
  • What about games? You think you will be able to sucessfully navigate Half-Life or other games which contain many much-needed keys? I doubt it. Not to mention it must be a bitch to code using this.
  • This certainly makes the current poll a lot more interesting.

    -Chris
  • Dof! The nintendo power glove is great for garage VR applications. I use mine as a mouse, and can still type with that hand.

    Basically it's just some fiber-optic strands that react to a finger bend. Replace the inner material with something breatheable and comfortable, get the pin outs right, and you are in business. Now, combine that with a glove keyboard design, and you have a great wearable design.
  • Ok, so I'm typing (verrryyy slowly) and oops, I have to open a door/tie my shoe/shake somebody's hand/unzip my fly for a pee/unlock my car/etc. and I've got this clunky borg glove on my hand. Unless you can remove your hand/body from the interface quickly, I don't see something like this being useful or enjoyable.

    How about a combination of flexible and split keyboards that you could wear on the tops of your thighs? You couldn't use it while walking, but it'd be convienient when sitting or standing. It'd look super geeky, but no worse than this glove or other MIT borg devices.

  • How about a combination of flexible and split keyboards that you could wear on the tops of your thighs? You couldn't use it while walking, but it'd be convienient when sitting or standing. It'd look super geeky, but no worse than this glove or other MIT borg devices.

    WOW, thats a great idea.. Accually that sounds great. Would definatly need to come with a crotch interface of some sort.. HEHE jk. But serious, if I had the money, I'd make one, and cut you in of course. Personally I like my idea of a LCD fabric. So my t-shirt could be a monitor.. I could make it say anythign I wanted too.. even maby a screen saver.. whoa... trippy!!
  • The glove sounds interesting, but moving your thumb to the base of your fingers sounds unnatural. Handykey sounds better right now (I ordered one a while back and should be getting it soon). The twiddlers [handykey.com] look awesome to me and I can't wait to get mine.
  • There's already a device out there call the MindDrive, I think. It's a game-pointing device that you put one of your fingers into, and by thinking "left" or "right" you can make the character on the screen go in that direction. Hypothetically. Real performace comes down to this: at CompUSA, the thing was hooked up to some skiing game, where you have to go left and right to avoid obstacles. The skier indiscriminantly twitches, and constantly changes directions, but when you're thinking "left" really hard, the twitching has a net movement to the left, and vice versa. Granted, with more practice, I'm sure it's possible to go in *gasp* all 4 directions. However, at this point, this isn't an effective way of gathering data from a human, especially when all 7 or 8 bits have to be right, consistently, over thousands of trials.
  • I agree! I'd rather hear a synopsis of the story (since mirroring coprighted information has legal implications for /.) rather than have to log onto yet another news service. I set slashdot as my home page so I could get all of my geek news in one place!
  • I can't even do the Star-Trek vulcan salute, doubt I'd be able to retrain myself to do anything that coordinated. :-)

    "If thumbcode catches on, joggers may someday be able to answer their e-mail as they trot along, and pedestrians will be able to get in a few paragraphs of the great American novel as they wait for traffic lights to change. "

    Oh puh-leez! If I saw someone answering e-mail while jogging I would be compelled to run them down. I respect individuals that work towards inventing truly useable portable information devices, but I think the realistic applications probably don't include typing while jogging (you are supposed to clear your mind and enjoy the runners high anyway, right?)
  • ..about six feet down, huh?

    (sorry, couldn't resist)
  • At my company, we are working (Dang! She's pretty hot!) on direct neural (not the phone again Hello? No I'm sorry, you have the wrong number.) input systems. The technology (Man, I'm hungry.) still has some bugs to work out, (Geez, dude, SHUT UP over there.) but I'm using it to send this post. (Submit!)
  • They're developing socks to go with the glove so we can use Emacs. ;)

  • I think that's the funniest thing I've heard all week.

    Of course, I have no idea what you're talking about. ;-)

  • I found the typecode specs, but that site looks totally different than the one described. Anyone know of any plans for one that fits the specs at http://boole.stanford.edu/thumbcode/thumbcode.html , or is there another site with specs for the glove previously mention? I'd really like to try this out.
  • ...seeing as how thumbadextrous the instrument is (9 keys for the left thumb, 4 or 5 for the right)
  • anyone else think that people using this type of input device would be more prone to hand problems often related to computer usage? it seems to me that this device may put too much strain on the hand. (like i really care...but...whatever)
  • If you want to make your own, check this out [blu.org]
    Looks very similar ..
  • username: cypherpunk
    pw: cypherpunk
  • Remember the Nintendo Glove? I got it for a Christmas gift once, and took it back and bought a game instead. Things like that arent sucessful. Most glove type devices I noticed caused arm strain, try holding your hand out, just try...I'd rather get a syndrome from typing :)
    Matt

    SpamMan

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