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KDE GUI

KDE 1.1.1 is out 115

Posted by HeUnique from the it-keeps-improving dept.
Well, the title says all - a new version of KDE is out with many bugs fixed, better stability, and imporved internet connectivity. Here is the press release and the changelog . You can download the files here (people with Redhat 6.0 Please check this doc). I hope that Linuxberg will have those files really quick.
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KDE 1.1.1 is out More

KDE 1.1.1 is out

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  • minor release (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    this is only a minor release, nothing earth shattering right? this is not freshmeat.net .. can you not post these things? we all know as well how touchy people get about kde and gnome, no need to bring it up unnecessarily %)

  • *REAL* theme support... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    In addition to the themes already available, check out KDE 2.0 Theme Information Centre [jorsm.com]. In particular see the screenshots for a preview of the widget theming support that should be available for KDE 2.0.

  • Re:Good stuff! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have posted on this topic once before and people didn't seem to see it (unfortunately it was well after the item was first posted on /.).

    Like my fellow AC, I would like to congratulate the KDE team on their excellent work on building the best and most stable Desktop Environment for X.

    I think that CmdrTaco etc. should put aside their personal preferences for Gnome and treat KDE in a fair and just manner. Nobody is asking them to use KDE only to acknowledge the excellent piece of software that it is. If they are going to inform us of every Gnome pre release, they should also post all of the KDE releases too. For /. to continue to thrive, it must not be subjective in its coverage of free/open source projects.

  • Re:KDE 1.1.1 and RedHat 6.0 (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I think I'm going to uninstall the RH6.0 KDE distro and install the KDE RPM'd 1.1.1. That way I know I won't have upgrade hassles and maybe I can finally use some the freely distributable KDE applications that won't compile/install with RH 6.0

    (KPackage, KPackViewer, KvIRC, KeIRC, KsIRC, Kicq, the list is long)

  • Here's what you do. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    First of, all check out the changelog [kde.org] because most of the changes to KFM have been listed there.

    Secondly, if the problems are still there, go to bugs.kde.org [kde.org] and report them if necessary. This is important because KDE developers do not monitor Slashdot for bug reports.

    As a user, your input is valuable, especially as this is an Open Source project. However, it would be good if you meet the developers half-way.

    -N.

  • KDE washes whiter (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The style of the press release makes me feel (unfairly) negative towards the product.

    If they want to sound self mocking they need to strengthen it a bit ("the most significant development since the dawn of civilization" would be better).

    I think I'm so used to this stuff from big business that I tend to tune it out and just feel slightly nauseous, but when you're not expecting it (as in this case) it's quite sickening.

  • Re:Apt friendly debian packages (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Please send me instruction how to produce the
    required packages.gz.

    Regards,
    --martin
  • Hi,

    Does anybody know if they have fixed the following
    problems which a lot of folks experienced with
    kde 1.1?

    1) When kfm is used, X keeps taking up more and
    more RAM until all of it is used up, the system
    then starts swapping and everything slows down
    to molasses.

    2) On at least some systems, KFM filemanager is
    really slow, even slower than script-based
    filemanagers like tkdesk.

    3) It appears that kfm does not have access to
    a lot of the fonts that are available. For example, on my system, it accesses only 2
    `fixed' fonts. Furthermore, it keeps breaking
    even short filenames into two or more lines,
    which makes the whole thing look ugly. I'm sure
    that I have used the Kfontmanager correctly to
    make the fonts available to KDE, so that is not
    the problem.

    I have seen these problems mentioned in
    newsgroups/mailing lists by other users, but
    have not seen any fixes posted yet. If anyone
    knows how to work around these bugs, I would
    appreciate it.

    Thanks,

    Hari.
    mailto:gharikumar@iname.com

  • Apt friendly debian packages (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, 1999 @04:55AM (#1907011)
    Nice to see the debian packages in there, but could they include a Packages.gz and structure the directory (even sym link it) so that I can add a line in my apt/sources.list. - Any way keep up the great work KDE team.

  • Good stuff! (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, 1999 @05:17AM (#1907012)
    KDE is one of the largest, most active and most successful open source projects. We owe a lot to those guys (any gals?).

    There is tentative talk about GNOME compatibility/convergence, which is excellent.

    Interesting thing about KDE is that it is now entering uncharted waters - the "chasing taillights" days are past them and the team is now doing new, innovative things, which tends to be the exception with open source projects.

    I've lurked on the KDE mailing lists for some time. The development team is quite upset about the bad rap they get at slashdot and other such forums. This is really unfortunate. These are great people quietly doing great things. Be generous, hey?

  • KDE-1.1.1 on Red Hat: The 5.x Packager Speaks! (Score:5)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 03, 1999 @02:40PM (#1907013)
    Hi

    I ( duncan@kde.org) *AM* the packager of the KDE-1.1.1 RPM Packages for RedHat 4.2, 5.0. 5.1., 5.2 systems, that are currently available for your enjoyment at :
    ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/1.1.1/distributio n/rpm

    These packages are in the series produced by the independent (NOT RedHat-affiliated) redhat-rpm section of the KDE Packagers during the long period when Red Hat felt that KDE was not suitable for their distribution.

    We aimed to provide a simple clean installation of KDE on top of a standard RedHat 4.2, 5.0, 5.2,and 5.2 system, and still support theses systems.
    Our goal was to give the user an installation that did all the configuration necessary, with the minimum modification of RedHat's own setup. Judging by user feedback, and reviews contrasting KDE's installation (on RedHat) to that of e.g., gnome-1.0, I think we at least partly succeded.

    KDE-1.1.1 is a "minor" (bugfix) release cleaning up little things that weren't quite right in KDE-1.1, but will be the "stable" desktop for the next 8-12 months while KDE-2.0 (with Corba, Koffice. qt-2.0, etc) is in development. Its release is significant as this will be the stable face of KDE for quite a while (there may be one more minor KDE-1.2 bugfix release at some point), but basically the developers have left 1.x for 2.0 development.


    As far as RedHat 6.0 KDE support is concerned, they have in principle joined the ranks of Suse, Caldera, DLD, Mandrake, etc who package and support KDE themselves. (Well, not quite, as these others make KDE the default desktop) This takes the responsibility for RH6.0 KDE support out of the hands of the KDE Packagers Team.

    We will continue to support RedHat 5.2, 5.1, 5.0 (and, if anyone requests it, 4.2), as RedHat will only handle KDE support on 6.0 and later.

    I am sure they will do their best to make the KDE experience on RedHat 6.0 as easy as the one we have tried to give users on RedHat 5.x, and hope their packaging will allow the replacement of Gnome by KDE simple for those of us who wish to exercise freedom of choice to do this.

    However, RedHat 6.0 rpm packages do *NOT* follow the packaging scheme I introduced with the KDE-1.1 release, where the optional KDE applications are all separated into individual RPM subpackages, so the user has complete control over exactly which optional KDE components are installed.

    The RedHat 6.0 packages follow the "traditional" KDE packaging scheme of 10 collections of applications, where if a collection is installed, you get all its members. My understanding is that RedHat wanted to keep the KDE packaging more analogous to the way gnome was packaged. (A "level playing field"?)

    The advisory from the kde ftp site quoted here is for people with KDE on RedHat 5.x systems who wish to upgrade to RedHat 6.0. Since I do not know whether RedHat 6.0 KDE packages "know about" the structure of our RedHat 5.x packages, we are advising people with upgrade from 5.x to 6.0 to use our "uninstall-kde" script to remove our packages first. This will *NOT* remove any of their personal KDE settings.


    RedHat 6.0 ships with "almost" the final KDE-1.1.1 release; If you want a true KDE-1.1.1 release for RedHat 6.0, you must wait for RedHat to provide it, but the only differences will be very minor


    Hmmm, this posting got rather long-winded!

    Thanks for your patience!





  • Well, you see, when people are no longer rebooting their systems every day, they need to do something that uses up that time. Systems administration would be it.
  • Red Hat as essentially made the KDE directory /usr from the original /opt/kde

    So things in /opt/kde/bin are now /usr/bin and things in /opt/kde/share go into /usr/share

    The merits of this are debatable. But them are the facts.
  • I don't think so, for instance there was no /opt/kde directory on my vanilla RH 6.0 install. However, any good Makefile or ./configure will be able to determine where KDE is living, whether its /usr or /opt/kde. When I had to recompile KVirc under the new system, I did need to change one line in the ./configure program which was hardcoded to /opt/kde (tsk tsk!)
  • As I've understood it, for apt-get to be useful, you have to have the right directory structure and a "Packages" file. For instance, see the Gnome staging area: http://www.debian.org/~jules/gnome-stage-2/

    The actual packages are in e.g. dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/ (one directory for each platform etc). In the same directory as the packages there's a gzipped Packages file containing descriptions of the packages. I guess the Debian developer's manuels have more information. [debian.org]

    Disclaimer: I'm not a Debian developer, so this is probably not 100% correct.

  • kpilot (Score:1)

    by Matts ( 1628 )
    I really hope kpilotDaemon is a bit more stable - using it with my Palm V it keeps crashing out - which is really frustrating! Other than that, it looks good, though I'm feeling a bit impatient for themable KDE, it's still butt ugly :)

    perl -e 'print scalar reverse q(\)-: ,hacker Perl another Just)'
  • KDE and gnome switched to a common ORB architecture?

    just imagine how cool linux would be if it had two competing "cool" desktop enviroments - but apps from one could still seamlessly integrate into the other enviroment.

    eg gnome-panel apps could plug into kpanel and vice versa...

    if only.

    - paul: who uses gnome, kde and openlook apps all under windowmaker. :)
  • Someone who doesn't use Linux for the cool desktops? Absurd!

    Everyone knows the reason our favorite HolyOS is there is to waste tons and tons of time configuring our desktops.

    Hehe, if you took the console and fvwm out of Linux distro's, and forced everyone to use X and some fancy WM, no one would get any work done :)

  • Qt, KDE licenses (Score:3)

    by Ray Dassen ( 3291 ) on Monday May 03, 1999 @05:44AM (#1907021) Homepage
    Or is the next version of QT supposed to be Open Source?

    Qt [troll.no] 2.0 will be released under the QPL 1.0 [troll.no] which is a DFSG [debian.org]-free / Open Source license. ( development snapshots [troll.no] are already available licensed under the QPL)

    The QPL 1.0 is however incompatible with the GPL (Debian's analysis [debian.org] still holds for QPL 1.0). Thus, to redistribute binaries, an exception clause is needed like pi-address [in-berlin.de] has:

    Additionally, you are granted permission to assume, for the purposes of distributing this program in object code or executable form under Section 3 of the GNU Public License, that the QT library is normally distributed with the major components of the operating system on which the executable or object code runs.

    The KDE developers are reportedly preparing a different license change that will resolve this conflict.

  • From the kppp changes:
    • `lock' in /etc/ppp/options will be ignored.
    Well, that should eliminate quite a few newbie questions, especially on comp.os.linux.powerpc.
    By the way, do other people have the problem where disconnecting a kppp connection doesn't cause the modem to hang up? I keep having to pull the jack out since I don't have a reset button.

  • 2.0 is a lot of work, and depends upon many things: getting KOM/OpenParts done, troll tech getting qt-2.0 out the door, getting koffice stabel, ect. 1.1 was a set of tweaks that brought kde from stability to maturity, and 1.1.1 was just a few bugfixes. With 1.1 they just took a bunch of stuff they were working on that didn't have the dependencies that 2.0 has, and got them out. This time they just fixed bugs.
  • do a

    kill -9 `ps auwx|grep pppd|cut -c 10-14`

    as root. what's happening (at least it appears so) is that you are killing kppp, but it isn't able to kill pppd for some reason. pppd runs SUID'd, so you'll have to do it as root.

  • Nope.

    Your post has been up all of about 5 minutes, and already it's slashdotted.


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!

  • Well, today I don't care if "Me too" posts suck.

    I agree. KDE is a great product, which is doing alot to make Linux (and Unix in general) more useable for many people, myself included.

    It's also a wonderful thing to show off when advocating Linux. We may all know that Linux has "advanced GUIs", but the rest of the world doesn't - yet.

    Now I just hope KDE 1.1.1 lets me disabled animated .GIFs in kfm. :-)

  • If your compile errors are related to libpng.so.1
    edit the makefile in the kthememgr directory
    and add -lz after the -lpng and it should compile.
    It worked for me anyway.
  • ah might as well speak up here:
    Is anyone working on a qt mozilla that's designed to work well with kde? The "official" mozilla uses gtk+ but there's no reason why we can't have a qt version as well
  • unfortunately they didn't keep up with the project (and I got an email from them saying that they don't have the resources to work on it). So I need to know if there are others who are working on it.
  • What you should have done was stick with the slink QT and the slink KDE. The new version of QT is incompatible with the old KDE debs; they need to be recompiled.

    Forget all that, though, since there are a pair of QT debs on ftp.kde.org (with the rest of the KDE apps). Just install those and put a hold on them. Things should be fine from there.
  • I rather have a couple of xterms on screen simultaneously than keep pressing ALT-Fx to change between the consoles ...
  • They released 1.0 and told us 2.0 would be next.
    Then they released 1.1 and told us 2.0 would be next.
    Next came 1.1.1...

    What's next? 1.1.1.1?

    2.0 is supposed to have great new features, I wish they would concentrate on that instead of the old release.
  • I haven't experienced/noticed problems 2 & 3 but problem 1 is definitely annoying. Here's a work-around:
    Warning: This will close all your kfms (that is filemanagers)

    Open a terminal and type
    killall kfm; kfm &

    This will free all the memory kfm allocated and make your system responsive again.

    Also if you are using linux take a look at kruiser (formerly known as kexplorer), it is an alternative filemanager, and boy is it fast! (Actually it's probably just what you need to fix your problem 2)

    It is available at:
    ftp://ftp.us.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/apps/multi media/cdrom/kexplorer-0.2.tar.gz

    Hope this helps.
  • But some websites will detect that the browser your using isn't IE or NS and hence assume that javascript isn't supported.

    You will need to change the browser identification string using "Options->KFM Configuration->User Agent" to fool the site into thinking that your using IE or NS.
  • 1.1.1 wasn't released on April 24 or 26. It was just released (3 May), (some people jumped the gun and thought it had been though), and, no, they won't remove this release.

    Good to here that pre1 is stable for you.



  • Again, no 1.1.1 was not released anytime in April.

    Some files in a 1_1_1 directory were released during April, (I downloaded these on April 27 and installed them). But putting some files on an ftp site does not constitute an official release, at least not for a large project like KDE.

    Though you may have meant to do well by announcing the release of 1.1.1 at freshmeat.net, you actually did considerable harm. Those files were intended to become the official 1.1.1 release as long as nothing was terribly wrong with them, (in fact some changes had to be made). By preannouncing the release you mislead many people into believing a release had actually occurred, what if those files had contained buggy programs that could do damage to someones system!? (I assure you this is quite possible when last minute changes are being made).

    Your actions also made life difficult for people who host mirrors. Because of people like you the files can no longer be uploaded to the main ftp server a day early (so that mirrors may sync). Hence we arrived at a situation whereby the release has to be made before mirrors can sync, and many people are left in the unenviable position of desperately searching for an updated mirror, (when there is none).

    I urge you to be more careful in the future and think of the affect your actions will have on others.
  • ">and the release notes from the homepage. "

    Hmm, I didn't see this announcement. But if this was the case then it makes it much easier to understand your actions. I apologize if this was in fact the case.

    It's just that I'm a bit annoyed by the whole situation, and that as soon as files are publicly made available a release will be declared, the ftp site will be overloaded, and the mirrors won't have time to sync.
  • I'm afraid you'll have to stay hungry tonight troll as I won't be feeding you.

    Perhaps you could go somewhere else?


  • Try logging in to either my.yahoo.com or www.dejanews.com. If it works, I'll download it.
  • Hiu, I installed Slink yesterday for the first time. When I installed the deb's for Slink and the QT deb for Potato (as was suggested by Dejanews) only half of the KDE apps worked. I read about this as well on Dejanews, and it was suggested that downloading the Hamm KDE 1.1 and installing the Potato QT would fix everything.

    I hate to DL an out-of-date version of KDE, so can anyone tell me if the Slink 1.1.1 KDE works as advertised?

    If I was doing something wrong before, suggestions would be appreciated.

    In an unrelated event, I downloaded about 60 debs from a website for GNOME 1.0.3 in Debian, and installed about half of the packages. dselect didn't like that there was a conflict with GNOME 0.3, GTK, and MC. Can anyone give me good instructions on how to install KDE and GNOME from a directory filled with debs? dpkg -i *.deb didn't seem to work.

    Thanks,

    Ben
  • Thanks a million, now I'm excited!
  • Nope, it ships with 1.1 (though there is a SuSE 6.1 dir on the KDE ftp site)

    Also, SuSE DOES release a GPL version (should be able to get it on ftp.suse.com somewhere)

    This version is only 1CD and doesn't contain NEARLY as many packages as the retail version. What's worse is that there is no manual. To me, the best thing about SuSE is their AWESOME manual. It is great!

  • Re:versioning to oblivion... (Score:3)

    by benmhall ( 9092 ) on Monday May 03, 1999 @03:32PM (#1907043) Homepage Journal
    Dramatic version updates.... like jumping from 0.30 over night to 0.90, quickly followed by a few 0.9.x (all of which made their way to slashdot) and then a premature 1.0 that hung ALL OF THE TIME while segfaulting and core dumping?

    Why is it that KDE gets no respect? It's stable, it's fast, it works well. If they had NOT released a 1.1.x, than all of the /. whinners would be complaining about how they aren't releasing anything new.

    I wish people could appreciate KDE for what they have accomplished.

  • Window Maker is recommended as an alternate wm for those not wanting to run kwm.

    Oh, sorry to spoil your party, I'm sure you'd have been happier if they were in their own little fort waving their own little flag.

  • Re:versioning to oblivion... (Score:3)

    by sjvn ( 11568 ) <sjvn AT vna1 DOT com> on Monday May 03, 1999 @03:43PM (#1907045) Homepage
    Hey, give them a break.

    A lot of Linux folks are learning that while being technically better is great, you've got to play marketing games as well if you want your GUI, tool, what have you, to be seen.

    KDE didn't call it KDE 2000 or 2.0, it was a first announcement, made its point and that was that. Were that all press releases so down to earth!

    Steven, Senior Technology Editor, Sm@rt Reseller


  • well, 1.1.2 will be next - taking some
    new and completly reworked hicolor icons
    and window manager themes with them.
  • Well...without cookie support that *works* kfm will still be useless at most of my favorite url's. Shame...it's a decent browser other than that.
  • No one is forcing you to upgrade. Do you upgrade your Linux kernel everytime a new version comes out? Judging from your post, I'd say that you probably don't. There is no need to upgrade your kernel everytime a new release comes out, unless it fixes something that you have had problems with. If you are not having any problems with your KDE software, then there is no need for you to upgrade. If, on the other hand, there have been fixes that would benefit you, then you should upgrade.

    It is all about choice, you have the choice to upgrade if you need to. With many other systems (such as Winblows) you do not have that choice. You are at the mercy of the company that sells the product to come out with a fix (called upgrade) for problems (sometimes very serious problems) with the product. Sometimes you may have to wait months, or even years for these fixes. I, for one, prefer the way that many Open Source projects work... release quickly and release often!
    ---

  • I agree; WindowMaker is neat.

    But I don't understand "Who cares?" posts like this. If you don't care about the news, why comment on it? Other people (such as myself) do care about the news. Love it or hate it, KDE is an important piece of software in the free software world, and a new release of it is news.
  • Troll tech already did a QtMozilla. They didn't do it as a production project, just as a proof of concept, so you'll need to do some work to polish it up. You can find it as www.troll.no
  • Wasn't this supposed to link to the new Open Source QT library? Or not? I'm confused. Or is the next version of QT supposed to be Open Source? (Or the semi-open source that they made in their own license.)

    ...Life's not fair, but the root password helps
  • See dpkg-scanpackages(8) from the dpkg-dev package. sources.list(5) is also usefult to read.
  • I read the document linked about RedHat 6.0, but that seems to be for people upgrading TO RedHat 6.0 on top of their old KDE. I want to do the opposite, upgrade to the new KDE over the one supplied with RedHat.
    Does anyone have any information on how to upgrade to KDE 1.1.1 over RedHat 6.0?
    Also, does anyone know why RedHat decided to use their packaging scheme for KDE instead of the one KDE (and consequently, all the application authors) use? It is so annoying to install new apps, etc, only for them not to work because RedHat's KDE is installed into different directories.
  • Did you look in the extras directroy? Theres a RPM called javascript there, though I am running RedHat 6 and so I can't check it out just yet. Perhaps that is the JavaScript support for kfm you seek. But then perhaps not.
  • KDE 2.0 will also have huge style support via the new QT 2.0. Checkout
    http://www.jorsm.com/~mosfet/kde/kdetheme.html for some early screenshots of styles.
  • Just kidding. :)
  • I just wanted to say that what you do means a lot to probably thousands of people. I recently installed KDE 1.1 on Red Hat 5.2, and the installation procedure was very easy and clear. One could only hope that it remains that way now that Red Hat will take over the job of packaging the RPMs.

    Thanks!
  • I think you are only able to purchase the CD and not download it. I am not 100% sure. I got mine at Microcenter.

    I think I have found my Linux Distro since I had a working setup in about 20 minutes with YaST.

    RB
  • I like KDE alot, and think that the KDE team is doing a brilliant job - But I am beggining to GET sick of the number of things I continually keep having to upgrade - in order to keep my system up to date! Enuff upgrades already!
  • I don't see the spot in battling for KDE Gnome anyway.
    I use WindowMaker as my Windowmanager because I like the look of it. But besides I like those KDE-Programs also, so I use them with WindowMaker.

    Hell, anyone can use in his desktop, what he/she likes. If someone likes Windows, well, let him die stupid and do your own thing.

    I say: Use the best of both worlds! Use KDE AND Gnome! Both of them do a great job in coding useful programs.


  • Wow! Such as song and dance about a 1.1.X release! Haven't those KDE guys taken any lessons for the Mircosoft marketing team?

    If you're trying to get a mass market for your product, improved stability and bug fixes would have been enough to warrant KDE 2.0!

    Hmmm, to retain the respect of the development community and take over the world at the same time? I don't know if this is possible in today's market! Maybe you guys should turn a blind eye and let KDE slip in a few dramatic version updates every now and then to impress the punters...
  • Maybe CmdrTaco et al. just happen not to have people submitting enough KDE stories, opions etc.
    I have no preferences to either KDE or Gnome, since I mostly do CLI stuff, but from what I hear the goals are not really the same.
    KDE is a desktop. It works and people likes it. Gnome is more radical, since some the ideas are a shift in paradigm of the Unix-way.
    And so be it!


    --
  • Hja, I must say that I agree with you because, when I heard that the KDE came out I wanted it. So I put my self on the "road" to find it. I founded some files which I downloaded--mistake! So then I also looked for updated mirror no luck! A yes, after download I had to reinstall my KDE, because it caused to crash my sistem, now with 1.1.1 it is again o.k.!!
  • But don't you know that the whole linux world is driven by neurotic users who treat obsessive updates as "systems adminstration"?

    Most linux users probably spend more time adminstering (i.e., upgrading) their software than using it - which for most of them is just the way they like it. What else would they do with their time?
  • Let me know when you can successfully compile the theme manager, I have redhat 5.2 (for about another week) and haven't been able to compile it.
  • Well, I installed KDE 1.1.1 onto a RH5.2 system
    running KDE1.1.1beta and now Q3Arena causes
    the kernel to lock up solid. The only change
    to the system since yesterday is KDE...

    What is even better is that I'm not even running
    KDE when I run Q3! Anyone else seeing this?

    Jason
  • Nope the kernel locked up. It stopped
    responding to external network requests
    (Telnet, rlogin, etc), CTRL-ALT-BKSPC, CTRL-ALT-DEL, CTRL-ALT-F1, everything.

    When I said it was locked up solid, it
    was locked up _REALLY_ solid.

    Jason
  • Have a look at http://kde.themes.org/newstuff where there are tons of themes and a little application to manage them.


    Patrick
  • People do upgrade hardware & software just to get stability. Look at the unbelievable number of patches that people download for games like Quake2. As far as I know, there were no new features in any of the patches, but right after it was released it seemed like there was a new patch every week. If there is ANY software that people _want_ badly enough, they will download any number of patches and spend alot of money in hardware if needed to make it work.
  • Thats the first thing I checked and it does support cookies, still no Javascript though


    PDG--"I don't like the Prozac, the Prozac likes me"

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