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GNOME GUI

RHAD Hires Havoc Pennington 88

Posted by justin++ from the good-luck-hp dept.
pate writes "It looks like Red Hat has scooped up another free software name. According to this article, Havoc Pennington started work there yesterday. " He's the guy who does the weekly GNOME summaries, and is responsible for countless other Good Things(TM) in GNOME.
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RHAD Hires Havoc Pennington More

RHAD Hires Havoc Pennington

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  • Wreaking Havoc (Score:3)

    by Shabazz ( 29233 ) on Tuesday July 13, 1999 @01:55PM (#1803910) Homepage
    Is Havoc his real name? I wish my parents would have given me such a cool name. Maybe I will change my name to mayhem.
  • Why is Redhat so hated??? What have they done that is so bad? In my opinion they have done nothing but help Linux.
  • He writes a lot of exciting and great GNOME code, helps people on the mailinglists, etc,etc, etc.

    Plus, he'll release his free book on GTK+/GNOME Programming in August!

    I'd better rush and pre-order it. :)

  • VA owns all E coders (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Oh Noe! It Must Be A Conspiracy!

    Please. It's been said before, it'll be said again. RedHat has NEVER done ANYTHING proprietary, nor do they show any signs of doing so. They pay quality guys like Alan Cox and Stephen Tweedie to sit at home and hack the kernel, hacks which benefit competing distros. If you don't like their file layout, or RPMs, or whatever that's great. But don't add credibility to the "RMS and his followers are all commies" meme by trying to destroy any Linux company that attempts to make money.
  • Dude. Look at the cvs checkins. It's great that some people that bust their asses extra hard are getting paid for their day gig, the product of which we may take for granted freely every day. As you pointed out, Miguel isn't employed by Red Hat, and Pennington is kicking ass for gnome with a book, weekly status updates and coding.
    I'm not a gnome developer, but, no, I don't feel odd about this at all- in fact it reinforces my support of gnome development.
  • I think the package management and install procedure (obviously they are related..) are too Windows-like as far as being spoon fed with your hands tied behind your back.

    How would you improve the installation?

  • Too Windows-like? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Then don't f*sking use it.

    Damn it, you redhat bashers are so ignorant. Even if you use redhat, you can still download all the source you like and install everything that way.

    Redhat has done nothing bad to linux. They have tried to contribute what they think is good for it, but nothing has been shoved down your throat. If you don't like it, DON'T USE IT.

    If your only problem is that rh is to windows-like, then I guess that means that you only use linux because it is non-windows.

    Grow up.
  • "spoon fed with your hands tied behind your back"?? WTF does that mean? Install what you want, dont install what you dont want, and config the crap out of it later if you feel like it. I dont see the 'hand tying'....
  • Isn't $80 for *free* software on a few CDs a little steep? I still remember picking up slackware at the old campus bookstore with 6 CDs (and RedHat was on it, along with other distributions) for $20 only two years ago.

  • That is a good, validid reason for a personal dislike of Red Hat. Myself, I happen to like Red Hat because of rpm. I do have some gripes with rpm (mostly when it comes to the kernel), but in general, I find it very useful.

    As to your assertion that Red Hat's only help to Linux is ``the effort to get widespread use of Linux'', I disagree. Everything (AFAICT) they themselves have written (rpm, the installer etc) is GPLed. They work with other companies (eg Precision Insight) to get more open sourced (GPLed?) drivers for modern hardware. They also pay people to work on Linux exclusively. What more do you want from them? Are you just jealous they didn't hire you? (I wouldn't mind if they hired me:)

  • You can still get RH for free......just DL it....or get it from www.cheapbytes.com for $2 (or whatever it is now).

  • Wow (Score:2)

    by wheezy ( 54319 )

    For those of you who aren't on the gtk+ and related devel lists, which I assume is quite a bunch, you ought to know that Havoc is just about the most knowledgeable and consistently helpful person I (and I likely speak for many of us) have encountered on the internet. Period.

    I'm slightly amused that he's gone to work for Red Hat, since he's a Debian developer if I'm not mistaken. But I'm sure he'll be happier with a paycheck than without. And maybe the "man who never sleeps" will finally get some sleep...

    Good luck, Havoc.

  • To work on gnome-apt. :-)

    Cheers,

    - Jim

  • Support (Score:3)

    by Booker ( 6173 ) on Tuesday July 13, 1999 @02:56PM (#1803930) Homepage
    And how much support did you get with it?

    I figure that your $80 goes for the 30 days phone support and 90 days of email support that comes with the package. Which, if you ask me, is a very good thing because most Linux newbies I goad into trying it are confused as hell right from the start. :) Traditional support can only broaden the user base. That's my $0.02
  • Why saddened? Do you think that it will affect the quality of his work in some way? Or make him less happy? Personally, it seems that getting paid to do what he's been doing for free all along would make him a happy man - which can only lead to better code. :)

    Also, I have no idea why your post was moderated down. I don't think that voicing dislike (err.. strong dislike) for Red Hat qualifies for flamebait. Ah well.

  • Oh dear (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It looks like RedHat has finally worked out how to stop being embarassed by Debian's packaging system -- hire the lead developer on gnome-apt! Development stopped for long enough when Havoc was writing the book, I have a feeling someone else may have to pick up the project now..can't imagine they'll let him continue developing for Debian. :(

    (I really oughta learn the internals of Apt one of these days and start playing with gnome-apt. Tomorrow sounds good :) )

    Daniel
  • Saddened because he is working for red hat....I myself prefer Debian and Suse....I have for a long time disliked Red Hat....but...as any good guy would...I gave them a chance and bought 6.0 at LE from linux mall for $3....I was not happy...I wanted my $3 back...I then installed SUSE 6.1 and was VERY impressed...the install system is great and very easy to use...
  • OK hated is the wrong word for me but RH isn't getting any more of my money. Why? RH6 is too expensive. I paid 30 pound for RH4.1 and again for 5.0 and liked what I got. But 80 pounds in the local shops for the RH6.0 is just stupid when boxed SuSE is about 30 if you go to the right places. Yes I can download it (though not for much longer, leave uni soon) and yes I could get a 3rd party CD but the only ways I can contribute to Linux at the moment is to pay money to fund developers working for RH or to advocate it in my own quiet way and get other people using it. I'd like to buy 'RH core' but as far as I can tell it's mail order only and postage is pricey.

    But, gripes aside, I like their distro and know enough of it's innards to make it work the way _I_ want soon after an install.

    So my choices are: Adopt a new distro and learn a new bunch of tricks, or pay a minimal sum that won't get back to a business that pays the wages of Linux developers.

    Rick signing off, from a tweaked, configured, and much loved RH5.2 box.
  • Maybe they'll hire Jason Gunthorpe and Ian Jackson next...

    Cheers,

    - Jim
  • I never thought I would say this but...
    GOT AC!!!
  • The above was a typo....what I meant to say was
    GO AC!
  • Okay... maybe a bit of an extreme reaction on my part... but I'd like to see attention steered towards technical issues rather than stardom.
    IMHO

    Gee, (insert prominent developer name here) lost five pounds and has a new shirt!
  • I agree with the previous post about the debain package management being quite a bit more sophisticated(sp?). RPM seemed to cause me quite a bit of grief with failed dependedcies and stuff.. But with Debain i simply select the package i want and it will let me know what i am missing give me the choice to install it and then will configure it for me (to the best it can).

    NOTE: I am using an ftp install for debian and am not sure if this was available for rpms so that it would preform the same.. either way

    RH seems to be doing a wonderful job and the fact they keep hiring key guys is fine by me.. At least these guys get to work for a place that lets them do what they are good at so the rest of can benifit.

    (if rpms do have the same features let me know. that would be swell)

  • Ah, thanks for the correction. Also, though I disagree with you about rpms, I'll leave it at that (ie agree to disagree) because liking/disliking rpms is a very personal thing.

    Hmm, I think I understand your grip about the package/version separator (and partly agree), but it hasn't actually caused me any problems other than one of the alsa prerelease versions.

    Anyway, happy hacking. You use Debian, I'll use Red Hat, and we'll both be `as happy as penguins on ice' (my wife came up with that the other night:).

  • I think its rather nice to pay developers to do what they do.. its got to be nice to be able to develop your projects, get paid for it, and release it open source..

    seems to be the perfect way to do what you want, get paid for it, and make it available for everyone to use.
  • Does this mean Havoc will come to the Cary B&N meetings with the GNOME developers? I may actually come to one now. Just have to find the time . . .
  • I don't use Redhat, but thats just as irrelevant as people who whinge that they don't like Redhat.
    How could you possibly complain about a company that gives OSS coders incentives to continue work? Redhat is doing an awful lot for the Linux community, and putting their money where their mouth is.. they support the OSS movement, Linux, and at the same time, are building a strong company to back it (and not control it, as some say - their source is still as free as everyone else's).
  • rpms do have an install via ftp feature, but it stops there (one of my few gripes about rpm). Sometimes (depending on the package) the missing package is actually known, but usually only specific files or `capabilities' (eg `mail daemon') will be mentioned in the requirements. And no, rpm does not (in my experience) automaticly fetch the required packages.
  • $80 for free software -- with a complete user's manual and some amount of technical support. You still have the option of downloading it for free or ordering it from someplace like CheapBytes [cheapbytes.com] for less than $10 including shipping.

    Several of my clients opted for the $80 "off-the-shelf" version rather than either of the other two.

    Red Hat is a Good Thing[tm].

    .c.
  • Seems like maybe there are some people working there who have not been completely assimilated yet....
  • Thats why they force all the developers they hire to only release their software under the RHWDPL (RedHat World Domination Public License). Now that you're on to them, we can foil their evil plans!
  • I have air conditioning at my apt too. it's great in the warm summer months.

    I don't have HP. What is this? Some slang term for heating?

  • I didn't say I'd be taking over gnome-apt!

    I meant to say it would be cool if Red Hat would pay Havoc to continue to develop gnome-apt (unlikely). It didn't come out right though...

    Cheers,

    - Jim
  • Lemme rephrase that. It didn't come out right
    the first time.

    That Red Hat pays Havoc to work on gnome-apt!

    Cheers,

    - Jim

  • So? (Score:2)

    by Trepidity ( 597 )
    Do we really need a news article every time somebody joins or leaves Red Hat? I personally don't care about Rasterman leaving, Havoc Pennington joining, or any of their other personnel decisions.
  • If you don't like the smell...

    Honestly: We all choose, what we read and don't read on the internet. There's bound to be some articles on /. you aren't interested in, so skip them and shut up.
  • I feel inadequate - my paranoia glands just aren't functioning to your level (need more peguin mints)

    I recently diverged into debian after being introduced to linux from rh 4.2->5.2. rh is like an entry level drug.

    they are trying to control free software in the sence of making it easy to use.

    oh nevermind (i'm going to bed)
  • This has been a difficult issue for me.

    I've recently switched to debian after only running linux on redhat since 4.2. It's taken me a bit of time to get up to speed. I'd hoped the biggest difference would be that I'd type dpkg instead of rpm but... :)

    This isn't a testament for or against redhat but one does begin to see that things that begin to seem intuitive adfasdf (- my cat says hi) on redhat are learned.

    I set up are rh 6.0 box at the office with all of my personal tricks in an hour. While my debian box at home took me substantially longer (felt like a newbie again).

    It would certainly be nice if learning linux didn't mean learning redhat linux or debian linux or suse linux or etc....
  • What if RH recruit most of the Gnome developers and SUSE recruit most of the KDE developers and Netscape recruit most of the Mozilla developers (okay, they've already get-em ;-)) and Caldera ..., and Corel ... and ...? So what? So they push their favoured bit over the others by throwing developer effort at it in an effort to make it the defacto standard? So What?

    Its open source. The competition and different design philosophies mean that the community is unlikely to be locked into a blind alley.

    Personally, as long as the license is right, the more full time focused developers the better. The process still has all of its benefits and the work is never wasted. If RH decided to recruit 100 developers to try and bury KDE what would happen? They would probably put themselves out of business, KDE would still be there, *and so would all the code*. We win again.

    The danger is when they start withholding the source.

    If you are looking for warning signs - watch the licence policy, not the recruiting policy.

    BigTom

  • Shit, KDE-Gnome collaboration over (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Havoc was one of the driving forces behind KDE-Gnome cooperation, against Miguel ("KDE will die anyway", 'Everything that's not by me sucks'-attitude) and Elliot (little interest).

    Hopefully he won't be assimilated by the RedHat product policy, but I seriously doubt it.
  • package) the missing package is actually known, but usually only specific files or `capabilities'

    This more a problem with the person who wrote the package in the first place than with rpm in general. The spec file should mention the packages that are required, rpm can't figure out itself...

    - Aidan
  • So? If you don't like it, and there is enough people who agree then fork it and start your own GUI project (GnomeAc?)the way you want it. You'll have a good working base to start from. If you're right all the non-RH developers will drift off Gnome to GnomeAc and you'll get the GUI you want. RH will have lost control.

    If you can't be bothered then it obviously doesn't matter that much and we can all get on with something else.

    BigTom
  • I don't know for sure what you mean by "support", but RedHat 6.0 did ship with KDE as well, if you choose to install it.

    -- KS
  • This is a rumour that has been around for a while, and it totally unfounded.

    At the time RH 6.0 went to press, KDE 1.1 was *not* released. The latest version was 1.1pre1, and that had been released weeks ago, and a number of bugs fixed.

    RH asked if we were releasing 1.1 for their deadline, and we weren't.

    So, they had a few options:

    1) Ship 1.0
    2) Ship 1.1pre1
    3) Delay RH 6.0 (costly, and practically unfeasible)
    4) Get what was in CVS at the time and test it the best they could.

    1) Was out of the question. The CVS tuff was a lot more stable.

    2) Asked by RH representatives, several KDE developers, (including me) said that the current CVS code was better than 1.1pre1 (it was, IMHO)

    3) Not really possible.

    4) What they did, *after* asking for advice.

    RH acted in what at the time seemed the best possible way given the situation.

    And before someone asks: I am no RH fan. I dislike their distribution quite a bit, and have my own grudges with the company's politics, but this is not one of them.
  • Check out his homepage [mcs.net]. His (full) real name is "Robert Sanford Havoc Pennington."
  • Well, I'm a Duke student and I belong to DULUG (betcha can figure that one out). Every once in a while a lady at Red Hat (don't know what her position is; she seems to have to deal with LUGs) sends out an email to our mailing list saying "Come to the Cary B&N to meet the GNOME developers". I've always had play rehearsal or something, so I've never gone. I'd like to, though.
  • http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/07/13/18502 26&cid=80
  • They did it because that's how they interpreted the FHS.

    Debian did the same.

    It is supposed to work when using that configuration, it is just a lot less tested.

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