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GNOME GUI

Miguel de Icaza Quits Day Job 79

Posted by Hemos from the coming-to-america dept.
Foaf writes "According to his activity log, Miguel of Gnome and Gnumeric fame is quitting his university job and moving to the US to provide 'kick-ass applications for users all around the globe.' " And, yes, now I can rest easy knowing that Miguel will be unfettered in his attempts to consume all of the world's coffee *grin*. Seriously, this is the continuation of a wonderful trend - more time developing Linux applications is good for everyone.
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Miguel de Icaza Quits Day Job More

Miguel de Icaza Quits Day Job

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  • Working for Open Source Projects (Score:3)

    by Prince Caspian ( 13062 ) on Tuesday October 26, 1999 @03:21AM (#1587065) Homepage
    More proof that Open Source isn't necessarily taking paying jobs away from programmers. It seems more opportunities are opening up to make a living working with our favorite software.

    "Bugs are harder to cope with than features, because they are less well defined and less well designed."
  • I think that Open Source is just opening up new opportunities and not closing any. The software market is still expanding and there is certainly room for the Open Source people.

    Way To Go(tm) Miguel.

  • I wonder who the investor is? (Score:3)

    by Dacta ( 24628 ) on Tuesday October 26, 1999 @03:29AM (#1587067)

    I wonder who the

    secret investor firm to invest in our supper-dupper free software company to develop free software and provide kick-ass applications for users all around the globe.
    is?

    Theory 1: Transmeta is actually not building a chip at all, but has a new, increadible Linux distribution which the need Miguel to work on the GUI for.

    Theory 2: Microsoft has seen the light and are going to open source Windows, and need Miguel to fix the bugs - after all, he has some experience with GNOME. *S*.

    That was a JOKE!

    But seriously, I do wonder who it is - I doubt Red Hat, because they tend to announce things like that. I suppose it is a company and not VC funding, though. Intel or Oracle, maybe?

    Also, what it Migel's company called?

  • Re:Working for Open Source Projects (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I would not read too much into this concerning job opportunities. This sort of thing is ancedotal evidence at its worst especially considering that this particular programmer, as the head of the GNOME project, is in no way representative of the greater open source software population.

  • Just a thought. . . (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    One company that I know of that is really investing a lot in linux desktop top would be VA Linux. VA employs both Raster and Mandrake, both of enlightenment fame. I think that VA is in its needed "quiet time" for its IPO- so this is possible, but I doubt it because enlightenment what they are calling a "desktop shell" now. Whatever the hell a shell is, it is independent of gnome and kde. Well VA is the only person I can think of. cheers
  • Just let me know if you need bus fare or anything, alright, Miguel? I don't want you walking home in the rain because you can't afford to take the bus. We all know how nobody can make money from writing free software, so you just do this until you're completely broke and then get a real job with a real company. We don't want you to end up watching Baywatch like all the other open source guys.
    </sarcasm>
  • Expand on that please! I thought Gnome had a new version and was completely DEBUGGED. Or not so?
  • "A program is never completed,
    it is simply abandoned.    "

    - I forget. Someone famous in code circles.

    --
    rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)

  • "Seriously, this is the continuation of a wonderful trend - more time developing Linux applications is good for everyone.
    "

    Gnome isn't a Linux app anymore than Netscape is, or MySql is or Apache is. It is an application that may or may not run on a number of platforms. Likewise KDE, or 98% of the other things you find on you linux box.

    You may argue that this is just semantics, and that any app that runs on Linux is 'a linux app', but that's misleading.

    However, as we see this more and more "Gnome, the linux desktop system" or "KDevelop, and IDE for Linux" it starts to look like people are thinking only in terms of Linux and its applications. This brings back the bad old days when OS's were judged on what apps were available, and apps were judged by what OS they ran on, or what OS they were native to (if they were later ported).

    Linux isn't the de-facto host system for all OS apps, whatever you may think.
  • What next?! Flying pigs and Gates in the poor house?


    LINUX stands for: Linux Inux Nux Ux X
  • I find it very disturbing when people feel they need to be in the US to write real code, or to get a real job in IT. This trend just pisses me off. Particularly Europeans tend to be starry-eyed about the US, and of these, particularly Germans--who can count the legions of programmers who left for the supposed "greener pastures." Yes, there may be shitloads of VC in the US, but then, I'm no fan of VC either.

    While it is said that countries don't matter anymore and that we live in a global economy, whom are they kidding? The US is sure to get the glory for any nugget of code they hatch, which certainly cannot be said for other places. Each "prominent" coder leaving his or her country for the US makes a little bit more cetain that IT in that country becomes that much less glamorous for the next generation.

    Ok, just some venting here.
  • Silicon valley is in the same state as Hollywood. This is why Stallone is a bigger star than Harison Ford. It's also why Miguel wasn't dragged kicking and screaming into a high paying job a year or more ago.

    The only people who wouldn't want this kid are those who have committed to KDE all the way or no GUI at all. That means Caldera and E-Smith.

    PS : Harison Ford films have made more money at the box office than those with any other actor.

  • Lets hope not, but it concerns me that we see people leaving their day job for a hobby - I've seen other people burn out doing that.

    Its not just programing, I know a photographer who says the stupidist thing he ever did was become a pro, he enjoyed it was a hobby, but to HAVE to do the hobby to put food on the table. Suddenly it wasn't fun.

    I could go on, but I think you get the point. I don't want to see devolpers of great software burning out.

  • i and many other /. readers do.
  • However, as we see this more and more "Gnome, the linux desktop system" or "KDevelop, and IDE for Linux" it starts to look like people are thinking only in terms of Linux and its applications.

    I'm afraid I don't get your point. I use my PC to get stuff done (and admittingly !waiste a lot of time just playing around ;-) KDE, Gnome and all the *non* Linux apps appearing more and more gives me and a lot of other people the opportunity to actually use a kick-ass OS most of the time because I have more and more software available to use.

    Just out of interest, what is your definition of a *pure* Linux app?

    ...by the pricking of my thumbs,

  • Here's the full diary entry... (Score:3)

    by kip3f ( 1210 ) on Tuesday October 26, 1999 @04:11AM (#1587083) Homepage
    October 25
    • OH MY GOD! I have not updated this page in ages. Crazy stuff.

      So many things have happened since the last time I wrote stuff:

      • My university is still packed with idiotic students. This time the striking students have decided what can be researched and what not, depending on whether it is helping "imperialists" or the "population of mexico". Someone described this as facist. The first time someone uses the word facist correctly.
      • I went to Boston and to Atlanta (for ALS). We got a secret investor firm to invest in our supper-dupper free software company to develop free software and provide kick-ass applications for users all around the globe.

        So, I am quitting my current job and moving to the US to pursue this new venture with my friend Nat. Exciting times.


    --
    Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play.

  • Re:Don't be proud (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    it strikes me that the moderator is
    being a bit dim...if you notice
    the bit, he was clearly
    joking.

    not that it was the funniest thing
    i've ever read here, but far from troll.


    looks like we've got the bmfh again
    today (bastard moderator from hell, heehee)

    -a
  • Why must everyone assume that Open Source software like GNOME is Linux software. Yes, Linux is the dominate OS right now, but if people continue to code projects only for Linux it is going to hurt the entire scene in the long run. When I write software I make sure it can run on multiple Unicies, not just Linux. If you don't have access to a UNIX system other than Linux you can still write software that ports cleanly, it just takes a little effort.

    just my 01. ready to be moderated down.

  • a. You are from the US, in which case I'm confused regarding why youre so upset that the IT profession is becoming less "glamorous" in other countries that you don't live in and aren't from

    b. You are from outside the US, in which case you are being quite hypocritical

  • Re:Working for Open Source Projects (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What?

    He gonna make money on Open Source? According to the Big Friendly Corporation in Redmond, that's not possible.
  • Ooops. Don't get me wrong, I'm not _against_ non-linux apps - quite the opposite. I just think it's confusing and misleading when a generic app that is open source (and so runs on Linux) is labelled "A Linux app" in a way that makes it appear the two notions are deeply linked.

    A pure Linux app, as you put it, would be one that required some feature of the Linux kernel, or relied on closed source software that was only released or Linux (or that was itself closed source and only compiled for Linux).

    You are right in focussing on apps not OS's. That's why I think its silly to go on about "Linux apps like Gnome" becuase it makes people think that someone the functionality of Gnome requires or is linked to Linux, which it isn't.
  • Hmmmm, to expand on theory 1 a bit; perhaps Transmeta is working on a new chip and a new OS...and need Miguel for the GUI...
    Theory 2 would be a blast though, wouldn't it ;-)

    We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
  • a Linux app is an application that was devoloped on linux.. The last I knew gnome was a linux app
  • I just think it's confusing and misleading when a generic app that is open source (and so runs on Linux) is labelled "A Linux app" in a way that makes it appear the two notions are deeply linked

    Good point, and as my first post showed - it is indeed confusing! Thanks, for the comment.

    ...by the pricking of my thumbs,

  • Hey, I did my part to keep Miguel out of the rain. I gave him a ride home from the airport once. :) I think he had only consumed about half of the world's coffee at that point.

  • I always wondered how someone could survive without getting paid these days. Yes Open Source software is great, and I have contributed a few programs.

    On another note. I think it will be great that he will be able to contribute more time to the OS movement. I hope that he does not continue to duplicate the kde efforts. Last night I discoverd gnome-mc. This is the gnoem file manager. It is in some way similar to kde filemanager. Both can put icons on the desktop, and both have tree views for browsing desktops. The Gnome filemanager has a more win95 look and feel to it, while kde is more of a web based feel. Yet they both allow users to put icons on there desktops like win 95 and mac's. Then there is gnotepad and kwrite and kedit. While theses are different editors it is just another example of duplicated efforts. There are duplications between the two everywhere. Yes this is great that there are lots of choices, but they still don't offer a 'true' solution.

    My suggestion that will prbably be ignored and moderated down to hell but I don't care!

    • Rather than have duplicate programs that do the same thing. Some of these authors should get together and produce apps that are truely useful.
    • A full featured word processor that can read and write word 6/7/8 files should be something to consifder .

    Just my ).02cents. but I'd personally rather see less programs that repeat the same efforts and more better and porwerful programs. nad yes I know about staroffice.

  • Internation Gnome Support

    http://www.gnomesupport.com/

    The Company information says :

    International GNOME Support is a new company devoted to writing,extending and improving the GNOME software project. We are focusing on creating the next-generation productivity applications which will drive business in the future and the software infrastructure which is used to write these applications. We are committed to free software, and all our work is released to the world under the GPL or LGPL license.

  • Yes, he'll be paid (Score:3)

    by aheitner ( 3273 ) on Tuesday October 26, 1999 @05:51AM (#1587105)
    Read the above comment, or better yet, follow the link to his diary on gnome.org ... children, always always follow the link before replying to a story :)

    Now then, I have to say I disagree with you about duplicated efforts. In some sense, I feel there has to be a level of duplication. Not that there should be acrimony between competing projects -- interoperability and user choice at a fine-grained level should be the goal, which requires fairly close coordination in things like desktop environments (and is something I commend and encourage for the GNOME and KDE teams).

    As an example where duplication is good: GMC is a nice fairly traditional file manager. Doesn't break any new ground, but provides a familiar starting point to the user.

    But several developers wanted something more advanced. They wanted to seamlessly integrate networked and local filesystems at the conceptual level via a virtual file system, extending the way the Windows Explorer lets you browse samba shares on your network to include FTP and other file sharing methods. The result is the (still experimental) GNOME Explorer (for lack of a better name). It's an interesting project, but it would have been inappropriate to abandon earlier efforts half-complete in favor of the new one. If developers constantly did that, nothing would ever get finished :)

    In addition, different projects have quite different cultures and backgrounds. Calls for the GNOME and KDE teams to merge are just silly -- they don't reflect that the projects have different approaches to the same problem. I think that's disrespectful to the developers, especially coming from non-programmers (I find programmers experienced in large projects, or better directly involved in the projects in question, have clearer perspectives on the whole thing).

  • I agree. I'm happy and sad to see this move for Miguel.

    A while back I nominated MdI for Linux PR figurehead. (Not an ESR fan, sorry.) It was pointed out that however qualified he was for the job, he couldn't perform it fully from Mexico. So for this I'm glad. Hopefully he'll find time and inclination to represent.

    Practically speaking, it's obvious why this is a good move for MdI, but like uradu above, I'm a little sad to see it. Linux has been developed internationally from day one. No one doubts that it can be done.

    Diversity is healthy (ask an evolutionary biologist). Working in different cultural settings produces different work. I respect MdI's personal decision, but I hope we can take the long-view that there is value in developing talent in more places than one. (U.S. VCs, are you listening?)
  • FYI I am a programmer experienced in large projects. And very large programs.
  • Will this cultural institution go away?????

    Two friends on sitting on the couch watching the new offerings on cable when a third man, wearing clothes almost to tatters, a long beard and unkempt hair wanders out of his bedroom looking a bit dazed.

    One friend turns to the other and says, "You didn't tell me your roommate was a filthy hippie." Surprised, his friend replies, "Hippie? Oh no. That's Hank, he writes open source software."

  • "Linux isn't the de-facto host system for all OS apps, whatever you may think."

    Ahh, but it will be verrry soon - WHUhahahah...total world domination.
  • "But when it does, if the Apps aren't designed to be universal on both OS'es then they are useless. We could always go to JAVA..."

    ... or we could always go to C;).
  • Doesn't GMC use virtual filesystems, including FTP, tarballs, etc.?
  • Miguel of Gnome and Gnumeric fame

    While that's what he's been doing most of recently, in my book, he'll always be one of the gods that helped bring Linux to my beloved Sparc. He also worked on the MIPS port. Oh, and he did Midnight Commander, too, but I forgive him for that :-)

  • You are absolutely right. The Windows and Mac GUIs have been in development, full time, for over 10 years now. This is why they are much more polished and functional than whatever we have now.

    GNOME is not doing anything revolutionary GUI-wise because it is not a research project. We do not have enough resources to embark into long-term research, and current GUI paradigms are well-known and work reasonably well. We are trying to give people freedom; when we have accomplished that, we can go on to research better user interfaces.
  • Um, Gnome also is developed and runs on FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, BSDI, Solaris, HP-UX, Irix, etc.

    It's a crossplatform Unix-based-systems project.

  • a Linux app is an application that was devoloped on linux..

    ...even if it runs on other UNIX-compatible OSes?

    What's an application developed by folks running Linux, folks running FreeBSD, folks running Solaris, folks running NetBSD, folks running IRIX, ...?

    The last I knew gnome was a linux app

    Are you certain that every single line of code in GNOME was developed solely on Linux?

  • Yes, I find it very disturbing that software engineers in Europe and other places don't get paid what they are worth: a real share of a real company.

  • You write: U.S. VCs, are you listening?.

    I want to see more programmers get funding to do cool things where they live, rather than feeling they have to come to the US. But it's not up to U.S. VCs to provide funding for this. The problem is the risk-averse culture of those who have money in Europe, Mexico, and elsewhere. It's very difficult to get small high-tech companies started, though I know of a few that have managed to do it (in Belgium and Germany). Many of those are so afraid of looking odd that they try to pretend to be US companies.

    There are alternatives, like getting public funding, but often political factors outweigh technical merit (like making sure that each EU country gets its "fair share").

  • ... since the GNOME people are working with the FSF, and the FSF loathes the term "Open Source". (Now I don't care if you want to say "Open Source", but you should know that it's not a universally accepted term).

    But yes, GNOME uses the FSF autoconf stuff, which, if used right, creates code that will run on any Unix-like system.

  • And whyever they want to?

    The general financial climate of the US is more robust and vibrant than that of any European country (correction invited!) -- VC is more accepted and more available.

    The personal financial climate is also better in the U.S. Sure, there are odious Federal taxes, but they are lower (and therefore somewhat less odious than those in European countries Again, if any EuroCountries have lower taxes than the U.S. does, please correct me! Monaco, maybe?

    The overall cultural climate in America is also still more individualist than that of any European country I'm familiar with; I'm not trying to make a case for or against individualism here :) ! but it seems to resonate with programmers. The assertion in this paragraph's first sentence is broad beyond all reasonability, but I'm sticking with it, ok? There is plenty of pressure for social conformity, plenty of factors that im Endeffekt* offically stratify American society -- but the State is a slightly smaller actor than in European countries. Too large nonetheless, but smaller.

    So, I say WELCOME! ALOHA! WILKOMMEN!(Babelfish is not Finnish-friendly, and it seems to be giving me the wrong word for Spanish ...

    Cheers,

    timothy

    *(Ja?)
  • I think he should have been moderated down simply because he left his opening tag out...
  • The US is sure to get the glory for any nugget of code they hatch, which certainly cannot be said for other places. Each "prominent" coder leaving his or her country for the US makes a little bit more cetain that IT in that country becomes that much less glamorous for the next generation.

    I disagree. I don't think people think of Linux as an "American" project now that Linus has moved here, nor do I believe for one minute that his departure has lessened the appeal of hacking in his native country. People truely enjoy hacking in most every country, including poor ones like China and India. The fact that some will leave for well paid jobs abroad would seem to be a source of inspiration for would be hackers since these people become "sucessful" role models. In a larger sense, Silicon Valley is a role model for success that other cities around the world are trying to emulate with varying degrees of success. The forces of equilibrium will prevail as the cost of living in SV is now stratospheric and it has no room to grow. Meanwhile, a lot of other places (and in countries outside the US) have developed increasingly robust tech infrastructures and work forces, and boast much more affordable living and more interesting environments.

  • I fully agree about the financially ultra-conservative nature of European business. Risk-taking seems to have flourished in the US more than anywhere else. Pity Germany hasn't been as economically risk-taking as politically, twice this century, he, he. Still, it looks like things are improving. There's a great article on entrepreneurship in the New Germany in a recent Fortune magazine (August 2, 1999, p. 129). It seems that there is a new generation of entrepreneurs coming up--especially in the East, figures!--and big money in Europe is slowly waking up to them. We'll see.

    Still, I'm ambivolent about VC. It seems to foster a quick-buck mentality and loose ethics. Lots of money up front makes twenty-somethings rush out and buy Ferraris, and lose focus before they've done anything truly worthwhile. If the business then fails, hey, it's not their money. VC seems to remove the incentive to succeed beyond that initial rush of fame and cash.
  • Maybe he will file for his own IPO.

    He fits the filter for the latest IPO-frenzy:

    1) Loads of IT talent and potential
    2) Name recognition
    3) Not much in the way of profits to show for all this
  • > b. You are from outside the US, in which case you are being quite hypocritical

    Hey, I'm from TN, Germany, just south of Munich. That's Tennissee, or Tennis Lake in English; it's a well known fact that tennis is very popular around here.

    Seriously though, I'll give you that much, it does look very hypocritical indeed. But it is not. There are exculpatory circumstances. Frankly, I needed to make more money than I could back in Germany, and I really prefer dollars over those sissy Deutschmarks--or heaven forbid, Euros (what is that, a Greek food?)--so I simply HAD to come over here. Don't you see?

    Even more seriously now, I was abducted by aliens (ok, my parents) and brought here at a time when I couldn't raise much legal resistance--i.e. I was a minor. You see, my parents, being the age that they are, grew up in a world in which the US were the promised land, the land of milk and honey (or whatever the metaphor of Paradise in your favorite religion may be). They did not understand that it also was the land of Bill Gates and the Antichrist, but then again, they're not much into Open Source. They're more of a patriarchal mindset, as befits their generation.

    So as you see, I've been framed into living a life I can't really defend. I admit it, I'm a fraud. I'll cease posting on /. and I certainly will moderate no more! I have donned sack cloth and ashes and am on my way to a monastery as I type.
  • I'll agree in principle with most of what you say, except paragraph 4. And 2 and 3. I think impressions about earning potential in the US are colored by a few high profile Überearners. If you compare yearly average earning figures in IT I think you won't find crass differences to western Europe. It would be more accurate to compare disposable incomes, and I think you'll find differences are negligible. There must be a reason Germans travel so much...

    Regarding the terms "cultural climate" and "America" in the same sentence, that's a bit of an oximoron, with a few notable exceptions. Don't confuse a social government with cultural conformism. Culturally the US are far less diverse than most countries, despite being a melting pot. Beyond a few exceptions such as NY and SF, American society is highly homogenized, indeed intolerant of cultural deviation. A foreigner travelling from St. Louis to Kansas City, to Detroit, to Dallas, to Houston etcetera will be hardpressed to even tell one from the other: people look and sound the same, buildings look the same, streets look the same, cities are laid out the same way. The same restaurants over and over again, the same shops, the same cinemas, the same ads on TV, the same news anchors. My opinion is that while a very large country has great economic potential through huge internal markets, it also leads to cultural homogenization and death. Frankly, the US can be pretty boring after you've seen the sights. There are simply no significant regional differences to make you come back again and again. That's what I love about Europe: you travel 1000 miles and you cross several countries, learn completely new histories, see vastly different architecture, meet people so different you wont't understand a word they say, eat highly varying foods, see different cars, hear different music, smell different air. Travel 1000 miles in the US, and you cross maybe two large cities. And you might not even be able to tell them apart.
  • Idem, I also disagree. To make an analogy, look at other fields of science. Since WWII the US has won by far the most Nobel Prizes. These are all brownie points for US prestige, and nobody else. Yet when you check out the details, you'll find that a high percentage of the recipients weren't actually American by birth. Many immigrated late in life, for professional reasons. Others retained their respective citizenships and imparted some of the glory to their country of origin, and yet the US institution at which they worked--and indirectly the US--got much of the attention. Take this year's winner of the Nobel Price in Medicine: sure, he was born and educated in Gemany, but he researched for Stanford or whatever, and that's who in the end gets the fame. Who even knows which fine German institution imparted him his love of science?

    This is important because fame brings money, and in the case of a university, lots of applicants. By flocking to the US, scientists are certainly bettering their careers, but they usually contribute little to their country of origin.
  • Free software folks also have a tendency to think they live in a post-national, post-race, era. It's a nice idea, but real life doesn't disappear just like that. The world of free software (or at least the public face of it) is very European American. Not a bad thing per se, but it's nice to see some faces from different places. Silicon Valley has a habit of brain-draining the best and brightest from the world over.

    I like the idea of Miguel de Icaza being the first brown hero in the world of open source, not because of silly tokenism, but because he's a great coder, and he happened to be born somewhere more than 100 miles away from either Boston or Berkeley.

    Like the previous posters, my reactions are mixed. I wish MdI well, but from a purely non-rational, feelgood, point of view, it would have been kind of neat to see him pursuing opportunities in Mexico.
  • I think it's great that Miguel is concentrating on Gnome. everything at the UNAM (his university) seems to be at a stand still anyway and if he can do something more constructive than waiting for the student strike to end, even better.

    Regardless of Gnome, i do find it kind of sad that he decided to leave Mexico. it demonstrates quite nicely the powerful myth that revolves around the USA. i don't mean that it's wrong for him to go there, but it's certainly not necessary. coding can be done anywhere. the fact that he is leaving Mexico is another good example of the (pardon the expression, but united-statesian doesn't sound very good) gringo brain-drain. oh well.

    Just in case, i know what i'm talking about since i am mexican, a programmer and don't live in the USA. lived there for a while but live/work Switzerland.

  • I don't think people think of Linux as an "American" project now that Linus has moved here, nor do I believe for one minute that his departure has lessened the appeal of hacking in his native country... The fact that some will leave for well paid jobs abroad would seem to be a source of inspiration for would be hackers since these people become "sucessful" role models.

    The problem with brain drain is that coders, scientists, etc in places like Mexico City (fer ex.) don't have the very best and brightest around to hang out with, learn from, and mutually inspire.

    There's value in concentrating talent -- hence Silicon Valley -- but after a certain point, density produces high returns for individuals (careerism, if you like -- and yes, we're all entitled to some), but diminishing social returns. By supporting individuals who want to work outside of the US, we develop new sites of concentrated talent, which begin to self-perpetuate. Eventually, not one big mess of Silicon Valley, but literally dozens or even hundreds of unique centers around the world.

    But I don't think this happens magically by 'market forces'. People have to decide where to invest their time and $$, and 'early adopters' of other places may not see as much $$ return either short or long term. So there's a tension between the social interest and the individual one.

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