Plastic Valley? 83
An Anonymous Coward writes: "Welcome to Plastic Valley -
Will the next chip revolution use plastic?" We've run several other stories about making electronics out of plastic - this one suggests that it is 5-15 years away, which I think means approximately the same as "We have no idea if this will ever be feasible".
other uses for pentacene (Score:2)
disposible? (Score:2)
This makes me sick. A clear conscience because the item is so cheap, it doesn't matter if you throw it away??? What about the cost to the rest of us? I hate this attitude of disposible this, disposible that. I don't want a disposible camera, I don't want disposible paper plates, and I certainly don't want a disposible processor.
Convenience shouldn't be our ultimate goal. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should.
Re:I'm sure this is all wrong (Score:1)
Disposable is bad (Score:3)
WHAT?
I tend to find that I can throw things away with a clear conscience if I know that they're going to rot down or get recycled. Of course geeks are good recyclers since they always keep (and use) old computers.
There is a tradeoff between power consumption (when new powersaving tech is introduced) and keeping and old machine but this is still worrying. Indeed, it's almost as bad as the disposable mobile phone thing.
The high tech solution to this is lots of nice nanobots that will separate out the metal / plastic from such devices and leave us with big piles of raw materials to use again. Anyone with an electron microscope that can put some together? ;)
Enough rant for today ....
gpig
over-clocking (Score:2)
Or recylcing plants
Re:What about if we run out of oil? (Score:3)
Everything in petroleum oil can be found, and refined from, plants.
Henry Ford once envisioned cars made of plastic refined from soybeans grown by local farmers. He went so far as to actually produce a soybean plastic Model T.
Linoleum is made from plant oils.
You have grown up in a petroleum centric society, but petroleum isn't the only way to achieve everything we do now. Free you mind, and the rest will follow.
Re:Someone should combine that with clothes.. (Score:2)
"Why certaintly sir. May I inquire as to why you are dissatisfied?"
"It Hz..."
Tupperware (Score:2)
"And this handy little storage bowl not only has an easy-lock lid, but it can also be located with its onboard GPS tracking system in case a friend 'forgets' to return it!"
$200/in it costs for silicon wafers???? (Score:1)
If that were the case, I don't understand how new chips 1/3rd that size can sell for $60 at retail. Is the figure wrong?
DO NOT DISCARD (Score:2)
Oh you could, could you? What were these gadgets made from again? Did you say *plastic*? Why not advocate RECYCLING?
Also, which is more plentiful, sand or oil? Granted, plastic "would reduce the fragility and bulk of screens," making larger screens feasible. Believe me, I have wanted a wall screen for a long time. Heck, why *shouldn't* my house mimick a living entity 24/7?
But despite the fact that "making any grade of silicon is a difficult, time-consuming, and pricey endeavor" and "the cost of [producing it] is steep", why is there no mention of the relative difficulty and cost of obtaining more oil to produce plastics? Perhaps plastic is the future for this type of application. However, the attitude that clear consciences can be created by discarding non-biodegradable materials is repulsive.
Re:It IS feasible... (Score:2)
Sure, it sounds cheap at 0.05 €, but exchange rates makes it sound a lot cheaper than it might actually be. Consider, for example, that you'd need to shell out roughly 31,500 Turkish Lira to get one of these puppies!
Doesn't sound so cheap anymore, huh?
information wants to be expensive...nothing is so valuable as the right information at the right time.
Re:Just a matter of time before real printed circu (Score:1)
Now if they'll only make laser printers that can print directly to phenolic or epoxy boards we could give mom's steam iron back :-)
Re:Just a matter of time before real printed circu (Score:1)
Free hardware... can the GPL handle it? ;-)
No, actually the point would be. . . (Score:3)
Think about it. You can print a monitor AND all computer circuits on a sheet of plastic.
Print it on a sheet of flexible plastic two by three feet, you now have a monitor the size of a standard poster, with ALL the computer electronics included, that you can roll up and put in a mailing tube that weighs nearly nothing detached from its power brick.
The notebook computer becomes obsolete and is replaced by the "placemat" computer. Indeed, the placemat at your table at Denny's may well be the computer you place your order on and then procede to have a frag fest with the cute girls in that booth over there. Dishwasher safe even.
E-books become a simple sheet of flexible lexan. Light, durable, AND damn near crunchable.
Entire PC's will be able to be laminated onto virtually any surface, of any shape or texture.
PC on a sphere? No problem. PC on a natural rock formation? No problem. PC on your FOREHEAD? Again, no problem.
I'm currently building a PC that is entirely contained within a desktop. You plug the monitor directly in a jack on the back of the desktop. The drive slots are on the front of the desktop, etc. I'm attempting to do this with standard *desktop* componants. No notebook tricks. It isn't exactly building the Saturn V, but it isn't an insignificant engineering task either.
Think about this, in the future it may be possible for me to embed such a computer * in the FINISH of the desktop. *
No, I'm sorry, durability, per se, isn't the issue. The issue is the whole new world of usability and ubiquity
In the future it is quite possible that the * shrink wrap * an item you buy is packaged in will be more technologically advanced than the item itself.
Re:$200/in it costs for silicon wafers???? (Score:1)
Re:What about if we run out of oil? (Score:1)
Re:Here's a thought.... (Score:1)
One of the first times I heard that my mind was on a zillion other things and for a moment I thought they were asking if I was paying with cash or a credit card.
Intel melting inside stickers? (Score:1)
I see people already saying that they will not replace standard CPUs but come on folks where will this have use?
Is this going to a brakthrough only to see the light of day in small battery driven devices or what?
The curious cowards and the tasteless trolls want to know.
2000 Nobel price in chemistry (Score:4)
The official site is http://www.nobel.se/ [nobel.se].
And while we are on the subject of plastics, this [economist.com] is also pretty cool. Instead of "lab on a chip" they are building a lab-on-a-CD. "The technology is already being exploited by Gyros, a spin-off created earlier this year by Amersham Pharmacia Biotech of Sweden. Gyros is betting that plastic compact discs are a better platform for future chemical and biological microdevices than are silicon chips. Apart from being much cheaper than silicon wafers, plastic discs are more compatible with biochemical substances. Also, embossing techniques for putting microstructures on a CD's surface already exist, so there is no need to reinvent the wheel."
In fact, the whole damn Technology Quarterly [economist.com] from The Economist [economist.com] is pretty damn interesting. I tried to get it submitted, but...(insert standard "Slashdot never posts my stories whine).
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What about if we run out of oil? (Score:4)
--
"No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
Re:2000 Nobel price in chemistry (Score:2)
I'm sure this is all wrong (Score:3)
The reason they use silicon is because IT'S CHEAP! IT IS JUST (refined) SAND! Far better would be Gallium Arsenide or some similar compound. But that is orders of magnitude more expensive to do in volume (at the moment).
Flexible circuits?!? I'll believe that when I see it. You couldn't make any IC without using metal layers to route busses around at the higher levels (note: the metal which carries signals around between the transistors is a conductor, NOT a semiconductor!). So, until they find a substance which is flexible, a good conductor at operating temperatures AND which you can deposit on the rough surface of a thin wafer with deep sub-micron accuracy...
...I wouldn't invest in any startups claiming to pioneer this technology without reading the small print.
The goals and implications (Score:2)
If I could build my own transistors, things get very interesting. If I can build transistors myself, that means I can print a gate array to spec.
Heck, I could even print my own CPU, FPU, or whatever... the GPL coverage of printed hardware could be very interesting. ;-)
Now I can focus on my ideas from 10 years ago with programmable cells that operate on one bit at a time, talking to their neighbors in a grid... 1,000,000 single bit computers working in parallel... move over Beowolf, hello task specific metahardware. The future is fun!
--Mike--
Find out where the industry is really going (Score:4)
Anyway, the roadmap goes out for about 15 years, and has some startling predictions (chips will run at .6-.8 volts, but will need about 200W of power) and it covers everything from processors to memory to everything else. Like, ALL the parameters. It's very comprehensive.
So, why should you look at it to see what's going to happen in the next 15 years? Because the ITRS is extremely important for the industry. All the chip manufacturers, all the test equipment manufacturers, all the materials manufacturers... they all look at the ITRS to see what they need to work on. The Silicon industry is made up of hundreds of companies, and in order to get them all to meet up at the same place to continue making faster stuff, they need to all be working towards the same goal... and so they all follow the ITRS, for the most part.
That's not to say that you won't see some new technologies pop in, but the ITRS is typically dead-on for most stuff.
Re:I'm sure this is all wrong (Score:1)
Power them with nuclear fusion (Score:2)
for the last 30 years, or so.
Re:I'm sure this is all wrong (Score:1)
Have to agree to your point on Gallium Arsenide though - was my first reaction, I mean they only just got silicon lasing [physicsweb.org] and they reckon it's the best semiconductor?!?
question (Score:1)
Re:$200/in it costs for silicon wafers???? (Score:1)
Speculation overload (Score:2)
Slashdot
speculation for nerds. speculation that matters.
Re:I'm sure this is all wrong (Score:1)
These are not going to be used for high-end devices where sub-micron placements are needed, but for cheap throw-away thigns like product tags, smart cards, etc. As far as flexible, a good conductor at operating temperatures, and can be deposited on a flexible substrate.., it's been done. Heck, polyaniline conducts like a metal.
No, they won't ever replace silion in your PIII, but they do seem to work.
Non-white racists (Score:1)
Re:Find out where the industry is really going (Score:1)
Re:I'm sure this is all wrong (Score:1)
It's not the only reason they use Silicon. Cost is a main one, but Silicon has other attractive properties for use in semiconductor electronics.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Organic!? - Alive!? (Score:2)
> Unfortunately, scientists have yet to stabilize
> the materials, which deteriorate quickly when
> exposed to air.
what worries me about this is how they keep bringing up the word 'ORGANIC' -- and then just tout the technical benefits of using LIVING MATTER, without ever a question to what it is they're actually doing to living things.
i mean - like regular materials don't 'DETERIORATE QUICKLY WHEN EXPOSED TO AIR' -- because they're not alive and growing. they want the living stuff to just GROW - BE USEFUL - and DON'T DIE -- on a massive scale. this seems to me to show a tremendous amount of disrespect for living things. i imagine they're only using MOLD or BACTERIA or some such, but doesn't anyone care if they're houseplants DIE? if we can hook up wires to a plant, and then eek the life out of it with electricity - well some people may not care, but its a bit like not telling people if they're eating genetically modified foods -- if you don't take care of your cell-phone, the PLANT in it will whither and die -- NO?
Re:Supporting research? (Score:1)
Jonathan
Um... (Score:1)
The only plastic Plastic Valley I'll visit..... (Score:1)
Re:Forget Plastic (Score:1)
Mike Roberto
- GAIM: MicroBerto
Plastics in electronics? (Score:1)
Voices of 2014 (Score:1)
Geek2: That's no tree that a....
In a rare fit of good taste I stop
Pastic chips (Score:1)
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Someone should combine that with clothes.. (Score:1)
yeah, sure (Score:1)
Plastic?! (Score:1)
Look out for the EPA (Score:1)
Of course, I'll avoid the obvious sexual implications
Just a matter of time before real printed circuits (Score:5)
10 years from now, perhaps circuits will be downloadable and printable straight to paper, without needing any components! Think about it, using primer coats in between, you could potentially print 10+ layers on a single piece of paper. If this is what the hobbyists will be doing, imagine what the rest of electronics will look like?
Perhaps solid state will mean exactly that, dense bricks of integrated electronics.
'No user servicable parts' will be more then a casual discouragement to warranty breakers, it'll be a way of life.
ok, ok (Score:1)
Move over, Brittany Spheres.
Sometimes nothing is a real cool hand.
I just want to say one word to you... (Score:2)
Are you listening?
"Plastics". [imdb.com]
Jacco /var/log
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# cd
Supporting research? (Score:2)
The way science works these days is that you don't get any funding if you can't demonstrate that your idea is likely to make a lot of money within a decade.
Deep thought and systematic research that spans over decades is long gone and dead and has been replaced by "science" of spin-off high tech companies and marketing. And the reason I'm posting AC? I work for one of these companies.
Re:Supporting research? (Score:1)
Return to the 70s?? (Score:2)
Hang on. Those are all good things. Carry on...
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Zap (Score:2)
Just imagine - you're walking down the street and every advert (including posters glued to walls) will have movement.
Animated images - HTML's worst practice transfered to the real world
Re:Just a matter of time before real printed circu (Score:2)
Did everyone forget about the paper computer [slashdot.org] article that appeared on Slashdot some time ago?
Re:I'm sure this is all wrong (Score:1)
They are researching this already (Score:3)
They look for printing as a cheap manufacturing technique of polymer displays. I asked Friend if polymers could take over silicon in other areas of electronics like CPUs, he said they would be far too slow for that. But maybe some day..
Anyway, the polymer displays look interesting, for one thing the viewing angles are not limited at all. And imagine a tiny laptop with a decent sized roll-up display..
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Disposable chips & cards? (Score:1)
www.ridiculopathy.com [ridiculopathy.com]
Plastic Schmastic (Score:1)
Re:No, actually the point would be. . . (Score:1)
Now I'll have to put my coffe cup on one corner and my pencil cup on the other to try to keep it from rolling up. Then I'll go to drink a slug of joe and *swiffle* the dang thing rolls up again. As I'm unrolling it, I accidentally press 'rm -rf *[ENTER]'. Doh!
Re:What about if we run out of oil? (Score:1)
I read Thomas Gould's first book on the subject (from the 60s). A brief synopsis of the theory can be found here:
http://www.energy.com/Resources/Consumer_Educatio
I checked amazon for the book I read, but could not find it. You may need to visit your local university. Look for something like 'Deep Gas Theory.' If you did ok in high-school chemistry, you shouldn't have a problem with this book (from a technical standpoint). BTW, I now go around telling people the earth produces oil according to this theory. All the Chem E's and Geologists I know think it's crazy, however. Not that they think it isn't possible, but that it's so contrary to Conventional Wisdom.
Stephen
Re:FREE NELSON MANDELA (Score:1)
Way ahead of you... (Score:2)
Heh...
more than 10 GHz (Score:2)
CMOS, as chips get ever more powerful.
CMOS has been dominant for the past 25 years,
mainly fir the amount of device intergration.
Bipolar and GaAS had speed niches, but never
approached the commerical device count.
People are still trying however.
Re:No, actually the point would be. . . (Score:1)
Re:2000 Nobel price in chemistry (Score:1)
>It's the wrong approach for several reasons. ACs
>posting the decrypted addresses is one of them.
Well, it's good enough to trick autoharvesters. So it shouldn't be a problem unless the AC is a total asshole and post it for them. Oh, wait, that's just what you did...
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Re:I'm sure this is all wrong (Score:2)
I have to disagree with you strongly here. Gallium Arsenide is NOT far better than silicon.
1. It is impossible to integrate GaAs to anywhere near the integration levels of Si because GaAs has such a HIGH defect rate. Trying to do a Million Transistor chip in GaAs would be futile; you would have no yield at all.
2. GaAs has a large amount of "surface" charge and it does not have a high quality native oxide. This means MOSFETs are next to impossible to create in GaAs (or any III/V semiconductor).
3. While GaAs does have a very high electron mobility (which is why it is faster) it actually has a LOWER hole mobility than silicon. This means complementary structures such as CMOS are not useful in GaAs. This is a real problem because complementary structures have no static power dissipation.
4. GaAs, like all III/V semiconductors, is mechanically brittle. This is because it is formed as a superlattice of two different materials with slightly different lattice constants. This is a big reason why it is more expensive to make than silicon, it is just plain harder. More to the point, because it is a bulk material, silicon can actually repair it's own lattice when heated. This is a process called annealing and is used in chip manufacturing.
5. It is difficult to design high performance, low power analog circuits in GaAs. It is used for stand alone power amps in wireless devices, but mixed analog/digital systems are quite hard in III/V materials. If you think mixed analog/digital systems aren't the future, why do you suppose Intel is buying every analog company it can get its hands on?
In summary, I would submit silicon is dominant for two reasons. First, because it is the best. Second, because it is cheap. It would be more correct I think to say we use CMOS over bipolar silicon technology because it is cheap.
Re:Organic!? - Alive!? (Score:1)
In other cases, much of the ideas of "grown" circuitry involve living matter in the manufacturing process, but not in the operational process... Some bacteria emit corrosive waste products that are used to etch circuitry, others can be used to eat patterns into circuitry... This qualifies as organic manufacturing as well, but the end product is no more alive than your toaster is now...
Re:more than 10 GHz (Score:2)
Re:Find out where the industry is really going (Score:2)
Yeah. Over half the pins will be power pins, and you have problems with metal migration, and ground bounce, and all sorts of bad problems. But that's where they say things are headed -- though that's a way-off thing so they might revise it.
And, yes, there is little difference between noise and signal now, even less at half today's signal strength!
Re:Someone should combine that with clothes.. (Score:1)
Forget Plastic (Score:4)
Forget plastic the future is styrofoam.
Just wait until X-Mas morning when you open up that package and inside is your brand new AMD styrofoam CPU that just hit the market. Of course it will be packed in old Pentium IIIs.
TupperWare to merge with IBM... (Score:1)
rr
Re:Forget Plastic (Score:5)
Ooooh, now THERE'S a design conundrum...make a cooling fan with enough airflow to keep the CPU from overheating, but not so much that you have to chase it across the room every time you boot...
Sorry, it was there, I had to use it before it went bad.
dejavu? (Score:2)
It's the other way round (Score:1)
People believe in something and strive towards it and only then are they able to build or achieve that shit. If it hadn't been so we wouldn't have reached this advanced state of development.
It IS feasible... (Score:5)
Here's a thought.... (Score:2)
"Will that be paper or plastic, sir?"
(paper cellphones last week, silicon plastic this week... )
A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
Re:Return to the 70s?? (Score:1)
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I'm not ashamed. It's the computer age, nerds are in.
They're still in, aren't they?
Re:2000 Nobel price in chemistry (Score:1)
Re:What about if we run out of oil? (Score:1)
--
"No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
Re:Pastic chips (Score:1)
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Plastic Valley? No way (Score:1)
Re:What about if we run out of oil? (Score:1)
Cheers...
--
"No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."