Surround Lights 103
Branephaid writes "According to this press release from Color Kinetics, (the company that came up with LED-based colored premise lighting and those nifty Sauce lightsticks), a new technology called "Surround Light" could soon enhance our gaming and movie watching. The idea is that the Color Kinetics lighting products are interfaced to your computer to play a "lighting effects track" in the physical room around you. Seems pretty nifty, but probably expensive." The boring folks out there will bitch that there are patents involved but they just want to complain or get off their one track minds. I'm more interested in the potential applications of such a technology. Lightning in a moody scene in a movie? Explosions in a shooter? Surround sound really is an amazing advancement, could surround light come close, or is this just hype?
Re:AOL offering Unix Shell Access!!! (Score:1)
For reference this link screws with your slashdot settings, including setting a goatse.cx link and also setting the user to be unwilling to moderate.
If you clicked on the link, then please go and reset your slashdot settings.
What a witty guy this lamer is...*sigh*
Already been done- the protocol's called DMX (Score:2)
You thought you were joking... (Score:2)
The latest issue of Home Theater reviewed a couple of these things. One is really called "ButtKicker Shaker".
Re:Better have a flat screen (Score:2)
Your comments on glare and contrast ring true. When a person goes through to tune a video setting, it is recommended to have a constant bias light at 10% of the TV's maximum set brightness (after calibration), a bunch of lights will throw all that off.
Hey, Taco's back! (Score:5)
I've been wondering if Rob would ever express any misgivings about how the site he and Jeff made popular has now been turned into a nonstop 2600-wannabe rant against any form of intellectual property, a rant that bears little relation to their own opinions. It looked like they had pretty much given up and turned the reins over to Michael and Jon Katz.
I'm reminded of that old L.A. Law episode where the old guy realizes how much the pushy woman has usurped control of the firm and announces, "Now, we're taking it back." (OK, I'm a little hazy on the details - I wasn't the biggest fan.)
Re:Prior Art (Score:2)
DTS has done this theatrically for some time (Score:2)
The system can also be used to provide synchronized subtitles and, with the simple swap of a CD, foreign language versions of the same physical print.
You can find more info at the DTS Cinema [dtsonline.com] site.
Explosions with lights? (Score:2)
Don't forget about laser and gun fire. Maybe laser projectors and optics behind the center speaker so when Han Solo fires toward the screen I have to dive behind my couch. I think a movie would be much more realistic if I had actual bullets wizzing by my head.
The possibilities are endless!
Re:Hrm, but is it really useful? (Score:5)
Hype hype hype hype.... (Score:5)
I would say that their patent claims are very misleading, and the patents themselves probably aren't worth the paper they're written on. Here are the two patents they cited:
6,016,038 Multicolored LED lighting method and apparatus
The systems and methods described herein relate to LED systems capable of generating light, such as for illumination or display purposes. The light-emitting LEDs may be controlled by a processor to alter the brightness and/or color of the generated light, e.g., by using pulse-width modulated signals. Thus, the resulting illumination may be controlled by a computer program to provide complex, predesigned patterns of light in virtually any environment.
6,150,774 Multicolored LED lighting method and apparatus
The systems and methods described herein relate to LED systems capable of generating light, such as for illumination or display purposes. The light-emitting LEDs may be controlled by a processor to alter the brightness and/or color of the generated light, e.g., by using pulse-width modulated signals. Thus, the resulting illumination may be controlled by a computer program to provide complex, predesigned patterns of light in virtually any environment.
There's no way this is a novel invention. Using a processor to modulate and change LED colors? Done for decades. I'm willing to bet that they've never attempted to enforce these patents, and most likely they won't.
As for the video game application, there's maybe a small niche here, but this is hardly earth-shattering news.
Premise lighting (Score:2)
Forget video games, I hardly play any. I read books, so I want to hear more about this premise lighting! That sounds like a "literary device" whose time has come. Everybody knows that while most Americans refuse to think, many works of literature don't portray a world of absolutes, and hence require the reader to engage the ol' noggin'. Now, if authors could use LED-based colored lighting, this would allow readers to see the premise in a different light without requiring brainpower. Sheer genius!
boring folks out there (Score:2)
This was completely gratuitious and I found it offensive. Thanks a lot for showing gratitude to the boring folks who keep your software free-as-in-speech for you.
Rob, I often feel that you are just along for the ride.
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Re:Surround Smells (Score:2)
Unfortunately DigiScents is No More
http://forum.fuckedcompany.com/fc/phparchives/seaYou could still leave open cans of tuna around your apartment while watching pr0n, it's much cheaper. :)
Conceptually Interesting (Score:3)
Wether it DOES anything useful, is affordable, and won't have other complications is a problem. We all recall the Pokemon Epilepsy scare - who knows what malfunctions could plague this even if it is a cool idea.
And let us not forget that old attempt at Smell-O-Vision . . .
XMMS Visualization Plugins (Score:1)
CAVE as Mood Lighting (Score:1)
Captain EO anyone? (Score:2)
I guess this is all thanks to Disney. Anyone who went to EPCOT Center in the mid-to-late 80s probably saw the dismal sci-fi heartwarmer Captain EO starring an appropriately glitzy Michael Jackson.
Part of EO's attractiveness was that it was in polarized 3-D (remember the gray glasses with ugly bright plastic frames). To add to the 3-D effect though, the theater included ambient laser light, radially pointed neon lighting, and a few other spotlight effects choreographed to the movie. So when EO fired a beam from his love ray (or whatever) or when his ship went into ludicrous drive (again, whatever), the beam or burst would fly out of the screen and past the viewer.
I imagine this is a lot like that, and I can't say I'd be bothered.
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More toys. Less content. (Score:5)
I haven't seen an industry that had such a fight with its own obsolescence, except for the military-industrial complex. Watch for the MPAA to borrow from McCarthy's playbook. ("I have in my hand here a list of 5000 movie pirates...")
And you think I'm kidding...
-jhp
Re:Better have a flat screen (Score:1)
VV ~= W
Better have a flat screen (Score:5)
Would the main display brighten as well to offset the increase in ambient lighting. The human eye would see the main display get "darker" when the ambient lighting went up. You'd lose some contrast as well.
I'd think it'd be more of a distraction than anything else.
Prior Art (Score:3)
Light and Sound? (Score:2)
Surround Smells (Score:5)
Adding light brings other elements into play. (Score:1)
I don't know if I like this. When you're watching a good movie, you turn off the vacuum cleaner and the dishwasher and the stereo upstairs so you can get a good quiet environment, so that the sound added by the movie fills the void with an alternate experience.
You also turn out the lights, close the blinds and (for a really good movie) cover the electronics rack, because just as you didn't want any sound from your house impeding your experience, you don't want any sights from your house either. However, when you add external lights illuminating the room, you start bringing pieces of the room back into visibility, breaking your immersion in the screen.
Sure, it would be a little creepy to have the room glow red in the scary parts of a current-day murder-horror. But having a lightning flash highlight the picture of the family on the shelf next to the TV would IMO break the mood. Flickering patterns trying to match the flickering flourescent lights just end up strobing the fan and making interesting stop-motion shadows on the ceiling.
Now, make them surround holographic projectors, so suddenly Agent Smith is right next to you and you'll have something... :)
Re:Troll much? (Score:2)
What I will address is that the original poster wasn't stating his own views, however. He was attacking Taco's, implying that Taco is being a hypocrite for saying one patent is ok and another is not. There is nothing hypocritical about this at all. There are certain conditions that Taco considers worthy of a patent, and some that are pure horseshit. Rob saying this patent was ok had nothing to do with how much he likes the toy; it had everything to do with what the actual patent was.
I believe IP is incredibly broken. I do think patents have a place, but I think the duration should be more like 10 years. There are a million other reasons I think current US IP laws suck, but that wasn't my point. What my point WAS, is that I'm sick of people whining about slashdot and grasping at any straw they can to attack Rob. It's fine to complain when there's a valid point to complain about, but the original poster had no valid point.
Troll much? (Score:3)
Patents and copyrights are allright when they are there to protect real innovation and development of new technology. From the post, its plain to see that these patents deal with a specific method and implementation of an idea. This isn't one-click nonsense, this is a specific protocol.
Hello, prior art.
Hello, not quite. This patent is for THEIR SPECIFIC TECHNOLOGY AND IMPLEMENTATION. This patent in no way states "we have exclusive rights to every time anyone ever uses lights to augment their television viewing."
Please at least try reading the article before jerking your knee. Taco opposes meaningless and assinine patents. No where did he say patents on their own are inherently evil.
FPS games (Score:1)
Re:I can see the medical claims rolling in... (Score:1)
I had a chance to talk with a CK employee about this very issue. They've read the literature on stroboscopic light induced seizures, and apparently there's a somewhat well defined zone that can induce seizures (mostly in kids), and they simply avoid those rates. Implementations of this technology will hopefully block out potentially dangerous flicker rates so that game developers don't knowingly or unknowingly start causing seizures...
I have a CK Sauce light stick. Nobody seems impressed when I show it to them. The typical response is "What use is that?" My answer: "They've got patents to use."
Re:Projecting light onto 3-D objects (Score:1)
Getting real (Score:3)
It's a bird! It's a plane! (Score:1)
I don't know... (Score:1)
In this case, they set the timer to the game, and the electronic appliances are the lights. I don't think I would want this. When I play a game I can become total emersed in the game. Playing with the lighting would make me jumpy--especially if it's the sega zombie game. Plus, what if the game goes from light to dark rather quickly? I won't waste my money on it.
I will waite for somethign more.
Re:Just like the movies (Score:5)
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Rather than surround lights... (Score:2)
Of course, room lighting is much more technologically (and financially) feasible right now, but I can dream, right?
-Puk
"is" an amazing advancement? (Score:1)
In fact, surround sound dates back to the 1950s, with the big-screen processes [widescreenmuseum.com] like Cinerama (7-channel sound), Todd-AO (6-channel sound), 35mm mag stripe (4-channel sound). It continued in the 70s and 80s with 35mm-to-70mm optical blow-ups, so that movies could be presented in the 70mm 6-track [get2net.dk] format. This lasted for a long time, with many movies (including the Star Wars and Indiana Jones trilogies) receiving 70mm 6-track presentations on their initial release. Then, finally, in the early-to-mid 1990s, today's digital sound processes started taking over, and now movies are 35mm-only, with 5.1 lossy-compressed digital sound.
Patents? (Score:2)
Guess patents and copyrights are evil unless they somehow enhance Taco's movie/videogame fanboy-ism. Then they're okay.
Oh yeah, and anyone remember the Jurrasic Park 2 previews? Some theaters rigged up strobe lights to "enhance" the on-screen lightning flashes. Hello, prior art.
Surround-light in games (Score:2)
It could also be used for some secondary cues though. One game which popped to mind was Thief, which used stereo sound and surround-sound to enhance the gameplay (tremendously) by giving environmental cues to the location of guards as the sounds of their footsteps propagated through various materials. One could imagine a next-generation Thief-like game that used surround-lights to indicate the ambient level of shadow where the character was standing. Since that is already determinable from the existing screen, the extra light would just serve as a mood-enhancing option, or possibly as an extra sensory input (just as use of surround-sound with Thief enhanced gameplay over just using plain stereo, but didn't eliminate stereo-sound users from playing the game).
All you really need is... (Score:1)
Re:Troll much? (Score:1)
Re:My moral dilemma... (Score:2)
Of course, I can't speak for my good friend Meept! over there, I think he might pick Z.
That's Slashdot for ya, we can't agree on anything.
Re:Prior Art (Score:2)
Aye, but it makes the "invention" trivial and obvious, and the inventors copycats. I wish the USPTO could see that.
I can just see it: "Did you see those lights? Yeah, that was cool! Let's go patent it! We can't, it's prior art. Well, let's do it with LEDs, then!"
Re:boring folks out there (Score:2)
I could be wrong on non-software, non-math, non-business-model patents, so I'd be happy enough going back to the way things used to be. However, I don't see how anyone can do research or implement good ideas in a minefield of patents.
Yes, I found CmdrTaco's remark offensive as well. Does he want someone to come along and patent something integral to Slashdot? As for Prior Art, that doesn't seem to be stopping too many people lately.
What does Rob Malda want, anyway? We don't hear much from him.
Re:Troll much? (Score:4)
One man's protection is another man's extortion.
"From the post, its plain to see that these patents deal with a specific method and implementation of an idea."
So, if you happen to believe that intellectual property is a valid concept, this should be a patentable idea if this was a non-obvious advance in the field. It doesn't look like one to me, but maybe I'm not well-versed in the field.
"This isn't one-click nonsense, this is a specific protocol."
Some of us think that artificial goverment monopolies are a bad thing no matter what they are "protecting," and that a free market is in serious danger whenever patents exist because of the chilling effect patents have. What new advances have been made in fractal compression since the early 1990s? Why aren't we hearing more about wavelet compression? Why hasn't the price of Polaroid cameras and film gone down?
If I see a great idea, ordinarily I'll rush to inplement it. Not anymore. Now I worry about patents and I search for any evidence that what I'm working on is patented. There's no way I can protect myself against pending software patents that I might not find about until the cease and desist order.
"Please at least try reading the article before jerking your knee. Taco opposes meaningless and assinine patents. No where did he say patents on their own are inherently evil."
Aposty might not be jerking his knee. He might have thought this through long ago and come to a conclusion different than yours. He might believe that patents on their own are inherently evil. I know I do.
Re:Hype hype hype hype.... (Score:1)
Re:Prior Art (Score:2)
Anybody ever see "Captain EO" at Disneyland? They also use surround light for some effects - strobe lights, etc. throught the entire theatre; not just the screen.
I doubt ther ewould be any leagal problems with people having seizures - there is enough flashing onscreen to trigger one; additional flashes would just increase the already present chance of triggering one.
Why not just get surround vision? (Score:2)
angry, bitter patent related rant (Score:2)
actually, just wanted to point out that since this is yet another example of a simple RE-introduction of an existing idea simply to a new medium, it would be hard to justify a patent... however, note I said justify, not actually gain one, but that is another story. Growing up, I have been to several examples of this, from rock concerts with lasers, pyrotechnics and video screens all strategically placed (and sync'd), to outdoor events placing lights to simulate lightening, and of course, lets not forget some of the better planetarium shows. (or was it sanitarium... hmmmm I could be imagining all this). Maybe even throw in firework and various air shows.
However, this would really be great, especially with really scary movies. But my worry would be the liability of stupid people out to steal a quick buck (or several million). Of course, that Nintendo flashing light thingy that brought out seizures in some kiddo's was real enough (although not as prevalent as many enjoyed claiming). hehehe, I am know thinking of the Simpon's episode in Japan, with the seizure inducing cartoons... what was it called?
patenting this? (Score:1)
Life imitates art (Score:1)
Worst idea to hit video since NTSC? (Score:3)
Given this, it should be obvious that ambient lighting _CANNOT_ add anything to this experience that would not already be addressed by the display technology. Ambient lighting does nothing but pollute the original image content...
As for, specifically, the home market: now that we've finally brought high quality video within the grasp of the general public, and have mature standards for color reproduction in editing and viewing environments, you want to hose all that by introducing ambient lighting???
This is bogus.
Stage and "party" lighting is the only remotely usefull application of this product, but it's worth noting that existing lighting-control standards are quite flexible, and would die laughing if they caught wind of this "surround light" hype...
LED costs (Score:2)
Palo Alto, CA just replaced most of the green traffic lights (only the green, strangely) in the city with LED arrays, and those things are bright. They look like spotlights. They visibly illuminate things across the street at night. So we're there in intensity. Cost is another matter.
I Saw it at the GDC (Score:5)
Though I'm not sure if it's worth it as a user, as a developer it's probably not a bad idea to include support, they assured me that there was just a small (10 lines or so?) chunk of code you'd have to include so that systems with this installed could use it with your game. If that's true, why not? I can't remember for certain, but I don't think support was tied to DirectX. (I know I asked, but I can't remember the answer.)
As an aside, this might actually be an example where patents indirectly spurred innovation. I talked with someone who knew the behind the scenes story of this company, and apparently they made so much money from products based on one of their patents that they decided they could throw some of that at a wacky idea based on their technology that they weren't sure would work. Even if Surround Light crashes and burns as an idea, their other products are going to keep them in the black.
Hrmm (Score:2)
Re:Hype hype hype hype.... (Score:1)
Re:angry, bitter patent related rant (Score:2)
Re:really clever idea (Score:1)
"Using" their patent (Score:3)
What? The point of getting a patent is not so you go out and develop the technology! Everyone know the point is to get the patent, preferably on something invented before so you know people are using it, wait for infringers, sue and threaten, and collect the licensing fees and damages.
Actually developing a product involves unnecessary time and expense.
Somewhat interesting... (Score:2)
That's a mix that I'd like to hear -- Brass Monkey and Beethoven's 5th.
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been there, done that. (Score:1)
Good old days gone forever.... (Score:3)
I remember when the Atari 1600 (or whatever the number was) came out. That was the greatest thing known to man. Then the first Nintendo came to use and graphics could not get any better than that, and if they could, who would need them, right?
I have to admit that this is all pretty cool, but I miss the days when we used to watch a bug zapper for entertainment. Now we need things to be as realistic as possible without feeling actual pain. Although I imagine that will be next, suits that you wear while playing your FPS game so when you get hit it actually will inflict pain on you.
Personally, I think I am ready to go back to squirrel hunting on the back 40.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Oh Wow.. (Score:1)
And what would happen, if a real fire broke out at the same moment ?
So .. (Score:3)
Dead easy to do (Score:3)
Then write a Quake mod that drives them based on dynamic lighting (simple hack to the relevant quakec) and you're away
Re:Surround Smells (Score:4)
theatrical lighting (Score:1)
Re:And now... (Score:2)
I wonder if the machine could be fooled into fireworks and strobing lights during the orgasm scene in When Harry Met Sally?
With your new game in the house, would you be able to tell the difference between The Horse Whisperer or The Bridges of Madison County? Wow - this could be a whole new way to categorize movies: "Did it light up the theatre? Not enough Kablams I guess..."
CmdrTaco loves to be entertained (Score:1)
best ever Amp visuals... (Score:1)
Re:really clever idea (Score:3)
The question is really whether these lights would add to the experience or detract from it. I tend to think they would detract, rather than add.
Part of the reason for having a dark theater is to allow you to disassociate yourself with the world around you. With the general tendency of talking and other distractions in the typical theater now-a-days, that's hard to do.
I suspect that lighting as described would tend to remind you that you're in a theater rather than draw you further into the film. And I think that would be especially true in the smaller screen theaters.
Now, I also suspect that in special venues such a technique could be experience enhancing. I feel like I saw a similar thing at some amusment park several years ago. But it enhanced the affect because the "theater" was built with that in mind.
I have serious doubts that it would work in the typical theater.
Sean.
Games! (Score:3)
Oooh, I can hardly wait for this in NetHack!
You recite a scroll XNAHT DUAM-
There is maniacal laughter in the distance-
(lights flash in such a way as to inform you that you have wasted a poweful scroll.)
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Re:Hrm, but is it really useful? (Score:2)
This sounds like great fun! I would love to have a dull, red, pulsing light when crusing through a DOOM or Quake level that had lava in it, and I think that if the entire room turned a light blue color when you were underwater in Ultima it would be Really Cool.
Sounds to me more like a cheap CAVE than a problem. It would be the worst when watching a movie, I think. The lack of interaction with the screen, plus being surrounded with mood lighting? How would you stay awake?
Now, if they could have a cave version of 'The Matrix' movie...
-WSAlready been done (Score:3)
I can see the medical claims rolling in... (Score:4)
Epoleptics throughout the world beware poorly written 'light tracks' will send thousands into grand mal seizures. This technology will take time before it's perfected, just like those movie rides with theI-Max style screens and the moving audience seats. If the timing was just a little off, it would cause the viewers to loose their equilibrium and puke their guts out. IF this company isn't careful, the lighting effects they're making possible just might have similar impacts.
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patents (Score:2)
The boring folks out there will bitch that there are patents involved but they just want to complain or get off their one track minds.
Was this necessary? It's not "patents" that cause problems, it's many business method patents, software patents, patents on games (like the patented tennis move), and maybe even drug patents and genetic engineering patents, that cause problems, because average (or slightly above average) people can end up infringing them with little effort. If a high school student can discover, implement, and distribute a computer program that infringes a patent, with no knowledge of the patent, how novel can the patent be? Etc.
I personally don't think all patents are evil, and when I see "patent pending" on my box of zip-loc bags I don't get all freaked out about it.
Re:Makes Viruses Scarier... (Score:1)
It's pretty fuckin' scary to think that script-kiddies might actually hurt people with a computer virus...
MadCow.
Makes Viruses Scarier... (Score:3)
Can you imagine the viruses that people might start writing for such a system? I can just see the headlines now: "Computer Virus causes people to colapse with Epilepsy attacks!!!"
Scary...
MadCow.
Re:DTS has done this theatrically for some time (Score:1)
Sorry CA (Score:3)
Personally I think this is about as interesting as those plasma balls and fiber-optic lamps.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:1)
Buying time (Score:1)
Not so (Score:1)
Other pervious products offered similar things (Score:1)
Just because you have a disco light that responds to your game, doesn't mean you will be 'emmersed' in the game. In fact, it just means you'll have something to distract you from the game.
Re:Better have a flat screen (Score:2)
Hmmm... (Score:3)
More SciFi being realized. (Score:2)
"... movie-one of the ancient, celluloid kinds that had to be projected by a machine." "...preferred to watch them with the "soundtrack," optical jiggles and wiggles, visible on the screen." "... We'd watched the films there for a year before
Not exactly the same thing, but interesting all the same.
Doctors Rejoice! (Score:1)
Projecting light onto 3-D objects (Score:5)
--
George W. Bush
President, United States of America
Theater's been doing this for ages... (Score:2)
VR film-viewing? (Score:1)
Now all I need... (Score:3)
And now... (Score:5)
I am guessing that the opening scenes of 'Saving Private Ryan' will be the starter for ten, but 'Sleepless in Seattle' will be the difficult bonus round.
Except for the scene where she is driving at night singing about arses, of course.
Re:really clever idea (Score:1)
I think it would work better in a theater than at home because they could make all the curtains and speakers and such a nice neutral grey, where at home you (most likely) have multicolored things around you. Plus there's the screen size.
*shrug*
Different strokes for different folks.
really clever idea (Score:4)
Imagine The Matrix with monitor-green lighting for computers, muzzle flashes for the lobby fight, firey lighting for the lobby explosion, all on a giant screen. Aww yeah.
My moral dilemma... (Score:5)
B) Oh no! They've patented the design. Selfish commercial bastards.
What's flavor of the month on Slashdot this month? Do we like or hate companies like this?
THL.
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Just like the movies (Score:5)
Re:I can see the medical claims rolling in... (Score:4)
I have rigged all your systems to hypnotically cause everyone in the world to sleep until death.....
Unless you pay me 1 MILLION dollars!
HI-FI application? (Score:2)
If the music being played in a room were passed to a processor (like a Winamp visualization plugin) which controlled LEDs, the amibient lighting of the room could be changed to match the mood of the music.
Even better - feed a mic in the room into the processor and the lighting could change to match the tone of conversation.
Peripheral Vision (Score:5)
Dangerous Lights (Score:3)
I guess it's the whole idea of your computer turning on you as it's finally figured out that you're not going to let it post to
linuxtoday.com story (Score:2)
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