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KDE GUI Businesses

KDE Success in the Enterprise 352

Posted by michael
from the looks-like-windows dept.
Arandir writes "Is UNIX ready for the desktop? Display Works Inc. thinks it is! They adopted KDE as their official desktop environment over a year ago, and KDE::Enterprise is running an interview with IT manager Tim Brodie over their experiences. This is a very good interview that covers why KDE was chosen, user migration, and wish lists for KDE. Quote: "I now see KDE taking the lead in polish and professionalism on the desktop"."
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KDE Success in the Enterprise

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  • hmm.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by njan (606186) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @01:46AM (#5978463) Homepage
    An interesting article; not only this, it addresses the issue of inexperienced or job-only computer users using KDE - hitherto not really mentioned in linux-promotion material (apart from obvious examples, eg. lindows). Quite a feather in kde's cap, I'd say.

    Or certainly a good sign. :)
  • Let's face it, for well over five years the KDE team has slaved away forging a complete and total desktop solution for not just linux, but the intire UNIX platform. No small feet, that. Along the way, they've had to make some hard choices. Abandon the closed-source QT license or petition to have QT opened? Work on the linux frame buffer potential, or expand their prescence over into the *BSD projects? While GNOME was making critical mis-steps such as following in the footsteps of Microsoft, and using their FSF clout to force Redhat to hemogenize the redhat/linux desktop; KDE kept their focus almost to the point of obsession. Quality, and Nothing but. So, I say Huzzah to KDE! Truly, the GNU worlds' greatest example of the american dream -realised!
    • using their FSF clout to force Redhat to hemogenize the redhat/linux desktop;

      Huh? When did the GNOME project did that?
    • by silvaran (214334) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @01:57AM (#5978523)
      No small feet, that.

      No, the small feet would be left to GNOME [gnome.org].
    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 17, 2003 @02:06AM (#5978550)
      > intire UNIX platform.

      That would be "entire", and I believe *nix is probably more appropriate.

      > No small feet, that.

      "Feet" are the logo of the Gnome folk. Perhaps you meant "feat?"

      > Abandon the closed-source QT license or
      > petition to have QT opened?

      Neither, actually. The KDE people went to Qt in the first place. It was the Gnome people who had a fit over the license.

      > Work on the linux frame buffer potential, or
      > expand their prescence over into the *BSD
      > projects?

      I wasn't aware that the KDE people were working on a framebuffer version. Are you confusing it with the Qt framebuffer?

      And it's "presence."

      > and using their FSF clout to force Redhat to
      > hemogenize the redhat/linux desktop;

      "Homogenize?" Redhat was hardly forced by Gnome to do anything. I suspect you are confusing them with Ximian.

      > Truly, the GNU worlds' greatest example of
      > the american dream -realised!

      "American dream?" I was under the impression that KDE was largely a European effort.

      > So, I say Huzzah to KDE!

      Agreed.
    • by Numen (244707) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @02:57AM (#5978680)
      [quote]
      Truly, the GNU worlds' greatest example of the american dream -realised!
      [/quote]

      Well like yeehaw and stuff, but KDE is largely a European dream.... which is actually just petty retort on my part in response to your attempt to make "the dream" somehow nationally proprietary.

      Keep the jingoism at home, or at least keep the jingoism related to things that actually have something to do with your nationhood.
    • I disagree with most of your points but I'll confine myself to only two of your assertions since the other ones have already been replied to.

      While GNOME was making critical mis-steps such as following in the footsteps of Microsoft, and using their FSF clout to force Redhat to hemogenize the redhat/linux desktop;

      "Following in the footsteps of Micrsoft", what's that supposed to mean? I've always thought KDE resembles Windows more than GNOME. For example, KDE favors the same button ordering as Windows and

    • "While GNOME was making critical mis-steps such as following in the footsteps of Microsoft, and using their FSF clout to force Redhat to hemogenize the redhat/linux desktop;"

      You only say that because you're a geek and therebefore not GNOME's target group.
      Like it or not, GNOME has moved on to the "keep it simple and stupid"-philosophy. People like you are not their target anymore. They're targeting average users, who demand a simple, easy-to-use desktop that don't overload them with options. People like yo
      • Speaking as an average user (well, in linux, anyway -- Windows is scared to death of me :) I found KDE more user-friendly out of the box, and Gnome far less usable. Everything seemed more simple and obvious in KDE, with easier access to what config options I cared about. Frankly, KDE behaved enough like Windows that using KDE didn't require much adjustment. Gnome reminds me more of OS/2.

        I had the same opinion for two versions of each from about 3 years apart.

        Of course, your grandmother's idea of easy-to-u
  • great... (Score:2, Funny)

    by larry bagina (561269)
    but what about countries besides Poland?
  • Polish? (Score:4, Funny)

    by jpsowin (325530) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @01:50AM (#5978480) Homepage
    I now see KDE taking the lead in polish and professionalism on the desktop

    I bet those Polish people are happy... :)
  • Not bad at all. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dbarclay10 (70443) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @01:52AM (#5978487)
    It's a pretty small installation as these things go, but most business uses probably revolve around those sizes of networks.

    So good news.

    And, if it turns out that it's bullshit, at least it's first-rate bullshit :)
  • Ehh (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Timesprout (579035) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @01:52AM (#5978488)
    We are operating a LTSP server with (at this date) twelve concurrent users. We also have another four stand-alone workstations used at some of our other sites.

    Without wishing to be overly critical 12 users does not constitute Enterprise level. Yes its nice to see a success story but do we really need to get a story on every KDE/GNOME deploment in the universe ? Can we maintain some perspective with the headlines please.
    • Re:Ehh (Score:3, Insightful)

      by snilloc (470200)
      Yeah, ditto that, AND they still need XP workstations for AutoCad, and idiots are still sending them MS-only files.

      Sure, this is great - they're saving cash and maintaining productivity, but they're far from the "dream" of a totally MS-free environment.

      • Re:Ehh (Score:3, Funny)

        by NineNine (235196)
        and idiots are still sending them MS-only files.

        They're not "idiots". They're customers. And let me guess, you're unemployed, aren't you?
    • Re:Ehh (Score:5, Funny)

      by prockcore (543967) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @04:09AM (#5978891)
      Yes its nice to see a success story but do we really need to get a story on every KDE/GNOME deploment in the universe ?

      This just in.. I've just deployed GNOME on my laptop. I can't say how much money it has saved me, accounting is still working on the numbers. Upper management (my wife) is still resistant to converting the entire household.. but we're making progress.

      Further bulletins as events unfold.
    • by torpor (458)
      This is just the sort of snobby elitish pedantism which gets Linux into trouble, consistently. Lets see, how about we call your company "too small" to be called a "company" ...

      The word 'enterprise' is not a 'class' of business nor does it imply any 'size of business'.

      The word 'enterprise' simply means "A business organization." as opposed to an educational institution, or personal user.

      Please learn to use a dictionary, and especially work on your 'marketing dreck filter 101' language skills.

      Whatever Mi
      • Re:Rubbish. (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Ed Avis (5917)
        The word 'enterprise' doesn't really mean anything, it is just a magic word uttered by marketers because it has a positive effect on other marketers, PHBs and general timewasters. Whatever meaning it once did have has been squeezed out. In general, any product with 'enterprise' in the title is to be avoided (just like any Microsoft feature called 'smart').

        So no point arguing about what exactly 'enterprise' means. Let those who want to use it use it, and the rest of us can continue speaking English as be
    • Re:Ehh (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rseuhs (322520)
      Without wishing to be overly critical 12 users does not constitute Enterprise level.

      What is "enterprise level" anyway?

      This is a moot point. The FUD around KDE and Linux is that it's "too complicated" for mere mortals. Obviously, it doesn't matter if Jane Secretary works with KDE in a 20-people company or in a huge worldwide corporation. Obviously, KDE is a viable alternative for non-geeks, too.

  • sure (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "I now see KDE taking the lead in polish and professionalism on the desktop"

    Yeah, and i see hot chicks. But I still spend saturday night alone, reading slashdot, and jacking off.

  • by netsharc (195805) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @01:55AM (#5978505)
    that when he wants to develop an in-house program that isn't going to be distributed anywhere else, the GPL doesn't require him to release his sources to the public, so he didn't need to be really concerned about the licensing issue.
    • by CoolVibe (11466) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @02:21AM (#5978597) Journal
      Someone moderate this guy up, because he's spot-on.

      Oh, and I'm a full-time KDE user too... albeit not on Linux... KDE has worked wonders for me on FreeBSD and Solaris too! KDE is not Linux-centric.

  • I am curious, how many users does this person have?


    I would think a small office would be much easier to convert then a large office.

    • Twelve, according to the article. You must have missed that when you read it.

      They're on LTSP, and loving it.
      • What I really wish we weren't missing out on (because we're not a 'fly on the wall' to watch it) is all the slashbots who read the summary, and point their bosses gleefully to this article about 'KDE Success in the Enterprise.'

        Boss doesn't waste ten seconds reading the Slashdot comments, goes straight to the article. He quickly notes it's an 'enterprise' of 12 users.

        What he says next to 'slashbot' his employee is the good part.
  • Did Picard endorse this?
  • by pair-a-noyd (594371) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @02:16AM (#5978581)
    It's hard to say anything bad about the latest release. Works great for me.
    And I've set several first time LInux converts up on it and they not only like it, they have a fairly easy time adjusting from windows to Linux.

    It's really a good thing.

    Thanks KDE guys, you got a good thing going!
  • Hello? Hello? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Slur (61510) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @02:20AM (#5978593) Homepage Journal
    Is UNIX ready for the desktop?

    Yeah, I think so. [apple.com]

    You can go back to sleep now.

  • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

    by Mithrilhall (673222)
    Why the Polish...I mean come on...what about us! =)
  • Better than windows (Score:5, Interesting)

    by quantaman (517394) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @02:42AM (#5978645)
    I personally find KDE to be better than Explorer for me. Of course windows on a whole is still far more user friendly when one considers program instillation, learning curve, and generally things working. However if one were to consider the desktop environment of windows compared to KDE I do find KDE to be superior.

    Configurability: KDE hands down, the Control Center simply allows so much to be configured, my system is currently set up to respond precisely how I want it. Windows respond to mouse overs after the time I specified, right number of desktops with the correct visibility of other apps, themability also a big plus. Don't know if XP has themability or to what degree but I don't consider it a major function.

    Look & Feel: Used to give it to Windows but now I think I like KDE better. Basically a function of familiarity of the system combined with actual looks, themability helps KDE here.

    Usability: Both have a fairly comprehensive start menu. I'll discount the points I could give KDE for a greater amount of software initially since this isn't necessarily a long term effect as you'll fill both with software you need eventually. However I do prefer the KMenus method for listing large numbers of programs as a heirarchy, when Windows tries to list 3 full columns at once it's much too slow especially since you probably already know the location of the item you're looking for. Also KDE gets points for multiple desktops, yes I know that you can get programs for Windows to mimic that but it doesn't work as well, most notably it simply hide apps so that cycling through apps in one desktop gives you apps for all desktops. The file manager for windows is generally nicer but the combination of file manager and CLI built in for KDE should give it the advantage there but I'll call it a tie.

    Either way overall I prefer KDE but after a certain level it comes down to familiarity. I used to use Windows alot and prefered that but recently I've almost entirely switched over to Linux, just found that the things I did alot were just as good and easy in Linux. Actually it's mostly multiple desktops that gets me. Frankly Gaim still isn't up to par with Trillian and Evolution isn't as nice as Eudora but the entire environment is nicer to work in. But either way that isn't directly pretaining to the Window Manager.
    • by Osty (16825) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @03:14AM (#5978725)

      [KDE] Windows respond to mouse overs after the time I specified, right number of desktops with the correct visibility of other apps, themability also a big plus. Don't know if XP has themability or to what degree but I don't consider it a major function.

      All of that is available in Windows. Get TweakUI from the Power Toys [microsoft.com] page and you can enable X-Mouse if you like focus-follows-mouse functionality (personally, I don't like it, but to each his own). You can also theme XP with StyleXP from TGTSoft [tgtsoft.com] (or if you don't want to pay, you can find the uxtheme.dll hack on google -- search for "uxtheme.dll SP1", no quotes). Tons of themes are available [themexp.org].


      However I do prefer the KMenus method for listing large numbers of programs as a heirarchy, when Windows tries to list 3 full columns at once it's much too slow especially since you probably already know the location of the item you're looking for.

      That's just organization. There's nothing stopping you from organizing your Program Files menu on the Start Menu in Windows. KDE has a nice organization because it comes with a lot of apps to begin with. Windows on the other hand tends to rely on separate software, and each installer wants to have its own top-level menu. Don't let it. Some apps play nice, like all of Microsoft Games Studio's games -- they all install under "Microsoft Games" rather than having one menu for each game. So, organize the menu if you don't like the default.


      Also KDE gets points for multiple desktops, yes I know that you can get programs for Windows to mimic that but it doesn't work as well, most notably it simply hide apps so that cycling through apps in one desktop gives you apps for all desktops. The file manager for windows is generally nicer but the combination of file manager and CLI built in for KDE should give it the advantage there but I'll call it a tie.

      Try the Virtual Desktop Manager, again from Power Toys [microsoft.com]. It does multiple desktops correctly, though it does have some other issues. Also, I guess I'm not familiar with KDE's file manager/CLI (I assume you mean Konqueror?), but remember that the Konqueror design is essentially Explorer/Internet Explorer's design -- it's really little more than a container for other objects. There's a Power Toy to open a command prompt from a folder, or you could try something like this [codeproject.com] instead, a command prompt explorer bar to put a CLI directly in the explorer window. Is that what you mean KDE does?


      Sure, right out of the box KDE is more configurable and has a little more functionality (virtual desktops, mostly). But with a little work and using only that which is built into Windows or Power Toys provided by Microsoft directly (ie, not replacing your shell with something like LiteStep, or paying for something like StarDock's WindowBlinds) you can make Windows (XP) do everything that made you choose KDE over Windows. The only thing Windows can't do is run on top of Linux :).

      • The only thing Windows can't do is run on top of Linux :).

        Sure it can, using VMware [vmware.com], Win4Lin [netraverse.com], Bochs [sourceforge.net] or Plex86 [sourceforge.net].
      • by SiChemist (575005)


        I have a couple of favorite features in KDE (3.1) that (AFAIK) have no windows counterpart.
        Open the KDE file browser and type fish:// plus the location of a machine running sshd and you can then graphically browse/copy/delete/etc files on the remote machine as if it were local. This feature even shows thumbnail previews of remote files (if you have that feature enabled). Browsing is very fast over my DSL connection to the machine at work.

        Another great feature is the KIO CD slave. Typing audiocd:/
      • Two points here. (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Balinares (316703)
        > All of that is available in Windows. Get TweakUI...

        Microsoft Windows: making you redefine "available in" since 1995! *g*

        > But with a little work [...] you can make Windows (XP) do
        > everything that made you choose KDE over Windows.

        Okay, two point here.
        1) KDE does NOT require 'a little work'. It's already powerful and functionnal that way out of the box. No need for crutches of any kind.
        2) Last I checked, the Windows GUI was still broken in deep ways. You can't move or resize an application wind
      • Yes but can you make linux lock you out of your computer because you haven't activated it yet?

        Saying you can do X task with Windows is missing the point. The bottom for most linux users is they get to avoid having to use Windows in the first place.
    • you know trillian and eudora worked perfectly for me under wine the last time i tried it.
  • Enterprise? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 17, 2003 @02:50AM (#5978668)
    Give me a break, I have friends with more computers and servers in their homes than this company. No matter how bad KDE was, that Sysadmin could walk around to each desk and teach everyone in the company how to work with KDE in one day.
  • Great... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ultrabot (200914) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @02:52AM (#5978672)
    KDE is indeed very polished, snappy and comfortable, arguably more so than Gnome (apart from Red Hat's excellent Gnome). However, Gnome & GTK is a more future-proof *platform*, since you can develop a toy application with it, and if it is succesful, you can release it with whatever license you/your employer wants to use. With KDE & QT, your application will only be GPL, unless you cough up the money for QT license *before* you start developing your app.

    For example, I develop Python applications in my current job. There are some python libraries that can't be released under GPL, by any means (the will of the company, not mine). In those cases, I just can't import those libraries when I develop a GUI application if I use PyQT. However, with PyGTK, I can release anything I want with any license I want.

    So, the main point is that even if your application could be GPL, all the libs that the application would use can't necessarily be so. Of course one can use CORBA etc. the insulate the non-GPL portions, but it's a drag and I'd much rather use GTK. The code that uses GTK can be deployed everywhere without worries, with QT you have to keep vigilant that you don't accidentally GPL'ize anything.

    In my view a library is not a "commodity" until its use is absolutely free of strings. That's the reason I avoid proprietary libraries, and GPL libraries. Liberate the infrastructure!
    • Re:Great... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Arandir (19206) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @03:18AM (#5978733) Homepage Journal
      With KDE & QT, your application will only be GPL...

      Minor correction: your application must be Open Source, but it need not be limited to the GPL. You see, Free Qt isn't under the GPL, it's under a dual GPL/QPL. No, it's still not going to let you release pay-for software without using a pay-for Qt, but you still have a lot of latitude regarding licensing.
    • Re:Great... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Spy Hunter (317220) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @03:54AM (#5978856) Journal
      With KDE & QT, your application will only be GPL, unless you cough up the money for QT license *before* you start developing your app.

      Why would that be? As the copyright holder, you can change the license any time you want. You can start it as GPL when it's in-house, and change the license later if you want to sell it outside of your company.

      • Re:Great... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by ultrabot (200914)
        Why would that be? As the copyright holder, you can change the license any time you want. You can start it as GPL when it's in-house, and change the license later if you want to sell it outside of your company.

        Not so with QT. Can't remeber the exact terms, but that procedure is explicitly forbidden. If you start it as a GPL project using QT, you can't just change license. You have to buy the QT license and develop a new app from scratch. I can't even begin to think about how ridiculous that must feel for
        • I admire Trolltech's flexibility in licensing, their willingness to open Qt to use by free and open source developers.

          A couple of Slashdotters argued:

          As the copyright holder, you can change the license any time you want. You can start it as GPL when it's in-house, and change the license later if you want to sell it outside of your company.

          Not so with QT. Can't remeber the exact terms, but that procedure is explicitly forbidden. If you start it as a GPL project using QT, you can't just change license. You

        • Re:Great... (Score:3, Informative)

          by infiniti99 (219973)
          This is absolutely not true. Go read the license sometime, it is pure GPL.

          I believe you're thinking of some old FAQ entry on the Trolltech website, probably written by someone without a clue. Saying that you can't change your application's license is ridiculous and completely unenforcable. Of course, if you distribute your code then you can't take it back (this goes for any software), but future distributions of the code could have a different license. Even the GPL itself doesn't 'force' your derivativ
    • You have to admit the main advantage of GNOME is the ability to write closed-source software for it. This aspect of the LGPL is exactly why Stallman is recommending not to use it [gnu.org]. Given all this, I can't help but think Stallman wishes he could rethink the choice of GNOME as the GNU desktop.
    • With KDE & QT, your application will only be GPL, unless you cough up the money for QT license *before* you start developing your app.

      Wrong. That would be before you release your app to some 3rd party.

  • by Numen (244707) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @03:07AM (#5978708)
    Aww come on chaps.

    As an individual story this is kinda cool. As a slashdoy headline of "KDE success in the enterprise" it's just sad.

    And I would imagine all the Apple users raised an eyebrow at "is Unix ready for the desktop".

    Like some business somewhere uses KDE on their desktop... so what? You not see how desperate it is to be going nuts over this rather small instance... how many desktops exactly are involved here?

    There have to be better examples than this.
  • by westyvw (653833) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @03:21AM (#5978744)
    After reading comments that there should be more examples, and a larger amount of clients would add credibility, I would say there is:

    How about 450 thin clients running KDE with 800 users? All running from one Linux server box. Now that sounds good!

    Articles:

    http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/m ai n/0,14179,2860180-1,00.html

    and the follow up:

    http://newsforge.com/newsforge/02/12/04/2346215. sh tml?tid=19
    • Mod this guy up! He's right on the money!

      Those guys in Florida have a huge amazing network!

      They've been on Slashdot before.

      Just search the web, and you'll find TONS of people using it on the desktop.
  • Recent Experience (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AKAImBatman (238306) <akaimbatman@NosPAm.gmail.com> on Saturday May 17, 2003 @03:26AM (#5978761) Homepage Journal
    His mention of building KDE reminded me of my recent FreeBSD install experience. After getting pissed off at RedHat constantly locking up my USB mouse (I don't know why I keep trying Linux distros. I must be a sucker for punishment or something.) and failing to support my NVidia card (Your kernel is too old, update. Oh wait, now it's too new, downgrade. RPM compile? I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that) I decided to try building a trusty FreeBSD box instead. I figured, "if Linux is here, BSD must already be there too!" Well, I was right and wrong at the same time.

    My first attempt was to build a Gnome desktop similar to RedHat. FreeBSD 5.0 itself installed cleanly, and with the help of a FAQ I was able to build NVidia drivers for 5.0. (One kernel module! You hear me Linus!!! One module for every friggin' kernel! BTW, for anyone who wants to do this, 5.0 is not officially supported by NVidia. The module will not install by default! You need to modify the header to remove the 5.0 checks and use the new AGP stuff.) So far, so good. I begin the build of Gnome. It built and installed cleanly. Unfortunately, the desktop was a little sparse and didn't look like the RedHat desk at all.

    So I began tweaking it. I added Bluecurve to replace the hideous default theme and then tried attacking the problem of installing programs. It soon tells me "Only root can add to the foot menu". Fine. So I log in as root and modify the menus. Come back as the user and none of the new icons show up! Is this a sick joke? Even worse, I cvsuped and upgraded to Nautilus 2.2. Suddenly, I have no way to change the Nautilus theme, it looks like crap, and all my icons are "unknown documents". On the bright side, I can sample the beginning of an MP3 by mousing over. Swell. A search on Google Groups tells me that a *lot* of people are having this problem with Nautilus (both Linux and BSD) and noone has yet found a solution. But don't worry! They'll have an XML config file in the next version that will fix all this. Couldn't they have done this in the first place? This goes on for awhile, with the desktop getting worse the more I tried to tweak it. Oh, and it's impossible to copy desktop settings between users. Apparently, these config files are tailored to individual logins. They look like serialized objects or something. Bonobo perhaps? Finally I give up and install KDE.

    Now, I didn't install KDE to begin with, because the 2.x UI was kind of flakey. It wasn't that it didn't work, it just kind of flashes and resizes in a very ugly fashion. None the less, I figured that 3.1 couldn't be any worse than Gnome. So I cvsup and begin a "make install". It begins building. And building. And (this thing is huge!) a day later I have a KDE desktop installed. No install problems to report. I booted up my brand new desktop, and.... WOW, IS IT EVER BEAUTIFUL. Well, save for the fonts. I had to tweak those a bit. 12 pt. Arial looked too thick on the screen. Later I loaded my TTFs from my NTFS partition. Cheating, but hey. Nice fonts are nice fonts. :-)

    Anyway, I just started *using* my KDE desktop. There really wasn't all that much I needed to tweak. I got Russian keymappings set up for my wife (a seemingly impossible task under GNO-it doesn't work-ME), installed KDevelop (nice IDE!), Netbeans (I love how unixes don't touch the swap file), and FreeBSD OpenOffice 1.1 (Side note: needs a full install per user. Yuck.). Worked like a charm. Even my wife, who usually hates these experiments, really loved this desktop. She soon was browsing the web, checking email, typing letters, etc. without my help. And she absolutely *loved* the action sounds.

    So here I sit. One KDE desktop on the nicest OS known to man (maybe save for OSX) and I am happier than a clam. The really great part about KDE was that everything *just works*. Like with BSD where sendmail works from the point of install, KDE never needed my help to get working. I just had to tell it my preferences, plus enable KDM and I was good to go. No hassle, no idiot scripts to
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Where can I buy the abridged version of this post? Thanks
    • FYI port /usr/ports/misc/instant-workstation will automatically install gnome, kde, fonts, all the icons extra. This will save you alot of work configuring everything.

      However in 5.0 the nvidia module did not work and it severly fucked my system. A deinstall would not correct it. I got symbol errors from nvidia.o. Be warned. Under FreeBSD 4.8 I had no problems.

      Beware 5.0 is a "technical release" and some of the ports are broken. This might of also been your problem with Natulius. I downgraded to 4.8 and se
    • Re:Recent Experience (Score:4, Informative)

      by GauteL (29207) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @05:54AM (#5979121)
      You seem to have some obviously legitimate problems. However some of them are pretty simple issues that reading READMEs and any GNOME-user should be able to help you with.

      1. The bad icons on the desktop is due to you missing "gnome-icon-theme". This is a FreeBSD (and Debian) distribution issue. Nautilus should depend on "gnome-icon-theme". Installing that package will make the default icon theme show up. Why the BSD and Debian -distributors of GNOME did not add this dependency beats me.

      2. Copying settings means copying .gnome* and .gco*. They ARE copyable. If you cannot seem to copy settings, then you've skipped one of these.

      3. The menu-editing problem is a genuine GNOME-problem, so might the russion-problem (that I have no idea about).

    • 2 small comments:

      1. You could have saved you a lot of trouble by installing any non-RedHat Linux. SuSE and Mandrake integrate their config stuff nicely in KDE (On SuSE you can set everything from IP-adress to screen resolution in kcontrol) and all others at least don't cripple it.

      2. There is an automatic script available "konstruct" which downloads, configures, compiles and installs KDE in your home directory (doesn't mess up your installation).

      • BSD's in general are higher quality then any Linux distro. The exceptions are slackware and debian.

        I tried all the distro's but none of them are as bugfree, stable, and just plain work as FreeBSD. BSD development is very conservative and will work better with buggy usb mice for example. The reason why is most Linux distro's put untested beta quality patches to there custom kernels. In Freebsd for example everything from the kernel to the ports are well tested. His usb mouse will either work or not work. No
    • failing to support my NVidia card (Your kernel is too old, update. Oh wait, now it's too new, downgrade. RPM compile?

      cd /usr/src/redhat/SRPMS
      rpm --rebuild NVIDIA*.src.rpm
      cd /usr/src/redhat/RPMS
      rpm --force -UvH NVIDIA*.rpm

      That's all you needed to do in Redhat. I do it every time I upgrade my kernel.
      I bet there was a simple solution to your mouse problem too. It's not like you're the only guy on the planet with a USB mouse.


      (I don't know why I keep trying Linux distros. I must be a sucker for pu
    • This sounds like a stupid troll to me. Installing the nVidia drivers is easy, you just run the installer at runlevel 3 and then switch to the "NVidia" driver instead of "nv". Of course for 2D work it doesn't really matter, I tried both and found that in Redhat 9 the free driver felt just as fast, so I stuck with it. That's it. No RPMs, no screwing about with kernel modules.

      OK, so lets see about the GNOME problems. As already pointed out, these problems seem to be caused by bad packaging. That goes for ico

    • you're right.. linux is 1996 kind of sucked...
  • by oosid (627873) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @04:44AM (#5978958) Homepage
    1. KDE 2. BSD 3. OS X ...oh wait. That's only two.
  • Did anyone else raise their eyebrows when they saw the words "success" and "enterprise" in the title?
  • RH 8 & 9 (Score:2, Informative)

    by jobsagoodun (669748)
    Having just installed RH8 (9 doesn't work with WebSphere yet) for a development project I was really impressed with how far it has come since RH6 and RH7. In fact, so impressed I'm having another go at replacing win2k on my notebook with it. Last time I tried, I had trouble working with people using MS Word etc. Openoffice initially looks good - time will tell if I can interoperate. Its great that KDE and Gnome are moving forward so fast - they really look like a viable desktop platform these days.
  • by main() (147152) on Saturday May 17, 2003 @07:39AM (#5979291)
    > Quote: "I now see KDE taking the lead in polish and professionalism on the desktop".

    Yes, the kde internationalization team have done a truly fantastic job.

    Oh... *polish*...

    I'll get my coat.
    Si
  • I have recently realized that People dont care about Real Multitasking, Threading, a easy to use shell. What people dont want is "Questions" to a normal user, a "question" is a mind bogggleing thing, even if its just to turn off a startup hint, they will dread reading it and ask "whats this mean" to the nearest IT person.

    What windows does is it ignore's us geeks who like to decide what we want top do and just does it without asking. So really, you just need to remove "Questions" and you will have a suitab

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