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Mozilla The Internet

Mozilla Foundation Seeking Switch Success Stories 537

Posted by timothy
from the it-rawks-it-stomps-cities-it-purees dept.
maggeth writes "mozillaZine has a story about how the Mozilla Foundation is looking to know if any organizations have switched to Mozilla products. Is your organization among them?" Can anyone point out an example of a library system switching? Lots of public libraries use PCs set up as kiosks running a web interface to their catalogs, and they all seem to use IE -- so, no tabbed browsing.
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Mozilla Foundation Seeking Switch Success Stories

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  • by SeanTobin (138474) * <byrdhuntrNO@SPAMhotmail.com> on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:30PM (#9734851)
    I'm writing to share a tragic little story.

    My Dad has a webbrowser that my sister and I used to use for our homework assignments. One night, I was browsing a website on it, when all of a sudden it went berserk, the screen started flashing, and some really weird pictures just appeared. Lots of them. And I was at a good website! I had to reboot and find it again really quickly. Needless to say, my rushed webbrowsing wasn't nearly as good, and I blame IE for the trouble I got into when my Dad checked the cache.

    I'm happy to report that my sister and I now share Mozilla Firefox. It's a lot nicer to work on than my dad's webbrowser was, it hasn't let me down once, and my cache has been really clean.

    Thanks, Mozilla.

    • by xmas2003 (739875) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:14PM (#9735107) Homepage
      OK - how many /.'ers use mozilla products because this way their significant other (who uses IE) won't see the history bar or the cache showing the sites they were looking at.

      I.e. I see a variety of comments about p0rn so I gotta believe this might be a factor for some of you! ;-)

      • by karnal (22275)
        Awww, that's easy.

        I'll answer your question with another question: How many /.'ers only have one computer in the household? :)

        I have 2 in front of me, and made my fiancee build one. She actually enjoyed it!
      • OK - how many /.'ers use mozilla products because this way their significant other (who uses IE) won't see the history bar or the cache showing the sites they were looking at.

        How about the boss looking at my history bar or cache? Oh, hey Peter! ;)

      • by killjoe (766577) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:45PM (#9735517)
        Set yourself up a different profile or a user just for browsing pr0n. Encrypt your home directory just be safe :).

        I have also heard of people running mozilla from a USB key!. I am going to try that one myself, sounds like a perfect way to carry your settings and bookmarks along too.
    • now you can't look at porn and blame it on popups...

      oh wait, it's impossible to remove IE. Maybe monopolies are good for something...
  • apple (Score:3, Funny)

    by xOleanderx (794187) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:30PM (#9734854)
    Hope they dont make it like that annoying apple switch campaign...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:31PM (#9734861)
    Lots of public libraries use PCs set up as kiosks running a web interface to their catalogs, and they all seem to use IE -- so, no tabbed browsing.

    and they would be real useful if anyone could actually see what they are browsing past all the pop-ups and ads!
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Many of the subscription databases libraries deliver to their clients are designed for IE (eg. Factiva)and will post warnings or reduce functionality if a non-IE browser is detected. The vendors are using more and more sophisticated search interfaces as their primary way of differentiating themselves in a time where there is a great deal of overlap of coverage.

      This is also the case with a number of the major library system vendor's catalogue web front ends. Sad but true.

      Large library services are, hovever
  • by propellor_head (668863) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:33PM (#9734873)
    For a site running Active Directory, IE can be locked down completely through group policies. Does anyone know if it is possible to do similar thing with Mozilla (ie. Default start page, proxy setttings, etc)?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:38PM (#9734901)
      Sun's Java Desktop System can do this for many apps including Mozilla. It's absolutely beautiful - central administration of gnome, desktop, browser, etc (if you want it that is...)
    • by vox_gabrieli (250873) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:48PM (#9734974)
      I work in a large AD environment (10s of 1000s of users), and the group policies are unreliable at best. We get several problem tickets per week of users whose browsers have missing proxy settings. And "locked down" is a bit of a misnomer as well. Any idiot with Notepad can create a .reg file to un-"lock down" most of the settings.

      That said, the best I've found is to use SMS (another unreliable technology) or login scripts to set the various things in prefs.js. This kind of scripting is a little more difficult than the equivalent IE scripting, I suppose.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, 2004 @01:21AM (#9735895)
      Have a look in the chrome directory where you installed Firefox. There's a file in there called "browser.jar" which contains information on what menu items appear in Firefox. If you unzip the file you'll find a number of files that control how the browser lays out its menus. The one you want to edit is "browser.xul".

      From this file you can unbind keys from executing commands, set it so that when you create a new window it actually opens up a new tab in the current browser, restrict users from changing the look of Firefox (ie, remodelling toolbars), and most importantly, stop them from getting to the preference menu.

      There's a good guide for doing all of that stuff here [lib.mi.us].

      The company that i'm doing contract work for is soon to be using Firefox on all of their 300 Point-of-Sale systems, and i've implemented a lot of the stuff from this guide on their browsers.
  • by ironwill96 (736883) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:35PM (#9734883) Homepage Journal
    I switched to Mozilla 6 months ago and have been enjoying it ever since.

    When I got home for the summer and started work back at a Jewelry Store in my hometown, I was able to switch three of the people at work over to Mozilla FireFox. The biggest thing they were impressed with is that 99% of the spyware/ad-ware just doesn't work on it because the coders of those products only code for the dominant browser (IE crap-ola). They also love the Tabbed browsing, the nice clean interface, and the easy access to all your privacy controls (cache, cookies, history etc.). Overall, it's been a great experience with FireFox except for the occasional VBScript-using site with which we have to open up the evil IE to use. I look forward to switching more people over to the dark side of th....never mind.
  • by __Maad__ (263535) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:35PM (#9734884)
    Having dealt with friends' Windows PCs lately and the sheer volume of destruction spyware, IE, and all the rest have caused, I would think that -- at this point -- tabbed browsing would be the least of anybody's worries in "library IT".

    Why does tabbed browsing keep rising to such prominence as a must-have feature more than simple standards-compliance and reasonable security does?
    • by Patik (584959) * <cpatik.gmail@com> on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:18PM (#9735134) Homepage Journal
      Why does tabbed browsing keep rising to such prominence as a must-have feature more than simple standards-compliance and reasonable security does?
      Because you can show Joe Sixpack tabbed browsing and he'll say "cool", but if you start blabbering about standards and security (and he actually understands) he'll say "so what?"

      Hook them on the popup-blocking and tabs, then sheer numbers will force web designers to shift to supporting standards.

  • by halo1982 (679554) * on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:36PM (#9734888) Homepage Journal
    Since Firefox came out all of my friends have ridiculed me for using IE, and I had played around with it a bit but was not impressed. I've been a faithful IE user since 2.0 (I know =P) and wasn't about to change.
    However lately I had been working on a website and in the cross browser testing I've been using Firefox 0.8 and on for Mozilla compatibility. Its taken extensive use of Firefox but I've almost completely switched. I love the tabbed browsing and it renders so much faster on my computer. I've also found it seems to handle some websites better than IE, especially with unknown extensions. I just wish it had Windows integration, but maybe someone will figure that out. Microsoft has a lot to worry about for IE 7. Firefox is improving with every version and I have fewer and fewer reasons to use IE.
  • I switched (Score:3, Funny)

    by mfh (56) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:36PM (#9734890) Homepage Journal
    Well, I switched a few years back and I must say Mozilla and I keep telling my organization that it's the same as Netscape but without all the extra AOL crap. They just look at me sideways... *sigh*

    It's always the same, I say, "Hey guys look at {technology A}," and they look at me sideways. That's what I get for working for computer peasants.... *sigh*

    Maybe if Mozilla shipped standard on IBM computers it'd be easier? (that's all they'll buy)
  • Libraries (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JoshuaDFranklin (147726) * <joshuadfranklin.NOSPAMNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:36PM (#9734894) Homepage
    Lots of public libraries use PCs set up as kiosks running a web interface to their catalogs, and they all seem to use IE -- so, no tabbed browsing.

    Having just been looking into setting up one of those library kiosks, I can tell you that's it's because all the easy-install products are built with IE. There are lots of websites about how to set Mozilla up in a kiosk mode, but they invariably involve hacking JavaScript and messing with lots of configs. That takes too much time for anyone but the largest library systems. It's much easier to buy a $30 product like Fortres or Cybrary.

    We need an easy download and install kiosk Mozilla, preferably also with an OS lock-down tool to make the catalog PCs as maintainence-free as possible.

    • Re:Libraries (Score:5, Informative)

      by dema (103780) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:21PM (#9735149) Homepage
      There is actually an extension [mozilla.org] for Firefox and Mozilla to put it into a kiosk mode under any platform. XPI's are stupidly easy to install and manage. There is also Kiosk Project [mozdev.org], which is working on a kiosk setup for linux that involves the browser and twm.
      • Re:Libraries (Score:3, Informative)

        by Fweeky (41046)
        Opera has a kiosk mode [opera.com] built in, too.
  • Library (Score:4, Interesting)

    by XanC (644172) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:41PM (#9734920)
    I'm the administrator at a medium-sized independent public library in the Austin area. Several months ago I switched all our public access computers to Firefox (and Linux, and KDE).

    There were some sites that wouldn't work, although we haven't run across that problem recently. And with the systems set up this way, we can guarantee patrons' privacy from each other (wiped home directory every logout), we can easily synchronize the machines with a central image at night, and we're immune from 99%+ of software exploits on the 'Net. It also means I can spend my time creating new programs and systems for the library, rather than dinking with Windows all day.

    Not long ago, every public access computer in the Austin library system was paralyzed for several days by a wandering Windows virus. We were sitting pretty at that point! :-)

  • by efuseekay (138418) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:43PM (#9734935)
    I used I.E. for a long time, and it was a terrible terrible time.

    Everytime I click on a porn-site, a zillion pop-ups appeared, covering the important pics of naked hot chicks. If nothing else, the pop-ups did a wonderful job lowering my saluting penis. It was horrible.

    But then, my girlfriend recommended that I use mozilla! Boy, it was a dream come true. No pop-ups. And the amazing thing called "TABBED BROWSING". Now, I don't have to open multiple windows of I.E., I can have multiple PICS of naked hot chicks in the same browser! I tell ya, nothing turn on my libido then being able to stare at the naked hot chicks in various positions, all at once! !

    So, thank you Mozilla! I love you!

  • Library browser use (Score:3, Interesting)

    by neutron2000 (409922) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:43PM (#9734941)
    Most patrons are barely capable of using existing public-access terminals let alone a multi-tabbed browser.

    Additionally, the majority of catalog lookups are single-item queries--I'm not convinced that throwing a better browser at them would significantly enhance their library experience.
    • Most patrons are barely capable of using existing public-access terminals let alone a multi-tabbed browser.

      Heh, perhaps, but it's not like using Firefox is any more complicated than using IE -- casual users may not use the extra features such as tabbed browsing (hey, most of them might not even notice that it's not IE), but the advantages of using Firefox will still be there (security, the extra features for those who knows the software, and most importantly, freedom. Libraries just seem like the most na

    • by jonadab (583620)
      > Most patrons are barely capable of using existing public-access terminals
      > let alone a multi-tabbed browser.

      Most patrons don't use the tabbed browsing feature, no. I have the tab bar
      configured to hide when only one tab is open, for just this reason. Some
      patrons do, however, appreciate the fact that closing the browser window
      automatically logs them out of everything. (This is because I configured
      cookies to have a limited lifetime of the current session, but the patrons
      are more interested in the r
  • Library (Score:4, Informative)

    by Vadim Makarov (529622) <makarov@vad1.com> on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:47PM (#9734967) Homepage
    Trondheim public library [folkebibl.no] is using Mozilla on its public PCs (30 machines). I'm not sure if they switched from IE, however.
  • A small success (Score:3, Insightful)

    by toxic666 (529648) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @09:47PM (#9734970)
    We have about 5% Mac users in my organization. All run Firefox as a browser and a few run Mozilla products as IMAP mail clients.

    It's an apples and oranges comparison, because the Mac users are a bit more the geek than Windows users; they are capable of understanding a browser interface and I don't have to walk them through the most basic end user tasks. Not a blanket endorsement of Mac, simply because those users are (as previously stated) a bit more the geek.

    I'm trying to get all the applications we develop web-standardized so I can eventually ditch the whole MS schtick -- accessible from compliant browsers an linked to open formats.

    It ain't easy Ringo, but I'm trying.
  • by pyrrhonist (701154) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:06PM (#9735068)
    The Mozilla Foundation is looking to know if any organizations have switched to Mozilla products. Is your organization among them?

    No, but we did switch to Acme Lightninggecko. Well, at least until one of us restarts our browser or pops up a new window, anyway.

  • by altp (108775) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:09PM (#9735082) Homepage
    ... in a public library, or any public place, is its lack of integration into Microsoft's active directory.

    I'm a sysadmin at a university library, and we have to run Windows for plugins that professors require for their classes. Mozilla nd Firefox can't be locked down like IE can through the active directory. A security change is a couple clicks in a central location with an Active Diretory and IE.

    With Mozilla we would have to visit each workstation.
    • by Coventry (3779) * on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:45PM (#9735262) Journal
      Wow, thats a pretty bad problem you have there. Let me describe how we handled it 'back in the day' (1997 1998) on a novell network with windows clients all using netscape 4, at the university I worked for.

      A login script.

      Yup, a simple batch file.

      All it did was copy down the bookmarks and preferences file from the known-good and approved copy on the server to the local profile upon login.

      Now, it sounds like you might not want to do that for bookmarks, but for preferences (which includes the locked-down settings) you could just push it down when people log in.

      No offense, but there are many situations where a admin won't be able to manage a peice of software via AD; maybe you should invest some time into learning about login scripts?

      For example: for the same netscape install I mentioned above, we would sometimes push down updates, including new plugins, all by just copying the new files and applying registry patches in login scripts. So, the day after a point release came out that fixed a security bug, the login script would need an extra 60 seconds (since we'd enabled the copy-down of the update).

      Moz/Firefox doesn't need registry patches though, so you won't even need a good uninstaller utility like cleansweep to help you find the changes an update makes.
    • by omicronish (750174) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:06PM (#9735361)

      ... in a public library, or any public place, is its lack of integration into Microsoft's active directory.

      I second that. Integrate Mozilla and Firefox with Active Directory and you'll start seeing large deployments on Windows networks. Currently I can easily change IE security settings on all computers on my network with a couple mouse clicks. And somewhat related, I can also install programs that provide Windows Installer (MSI) packages with a couple mouse clicks. Luckily MSI support is listed in Firefox's Bugzilla (and was almost made blocking for 1.0), so hopefully it'll be soon when an official Firefox MSI is released.

      It's actually pretty easy to create an MSI yourself if you have Visual Studio.NET (and maybe WiX, but I haven't tried), but some administrative rollout tools would be nice to augment MSIs. What'd be really great is MSI transforms that install additional plugins, so I can for example install Firefox on every computer in a Windows network and install Adblock.

      • Currently I can easily change IE security settings on all computers on my network with a couple mouse clicks

        IE security setting?

        Thanks man, I can't stop laughing :D

        Please submit it to:
        http://www.oxymoronlist.com/
  • the switch (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mastergoon (648848) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:09PM (#9735085) Homepage
    At my school library, I work as a semi-admin (well, I know all the passwords and help out a lot). Most of the stuff I end up doing is removing spyware. I installed Firefox on every box, but nobody was using it, and the spyware continued to pile up daily. As a last result, I replaced the firefox icon with the IE icon, and renamed it to "Internet Explorer." Everyone started using it, and I heard no complaints.

    This is probably an evil way of doing things, but people are set in their ways, once they switch they like it, but getting them to not just use their same old browser is difficult.
  • Sign me up! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Tablizer (95088) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:24PM (#9735161) Journal
    I for one have never had a problem with Mozilla. It has performed flawlessesly from day one without a single hiccup or burrrrr8~ ^%@ ..^ & ! # # ,, ~ 8 j ,,, NO CARRIER
  • by pimpin apollo (664314) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:31PM (#9735197)
    I'm sorry, Apple owns a patent on "switch" advertising, we have cases pending against proctor and gamble

    you can however advertise switching to apple products, speaking of which, have you tried safari?
  • The next big thing (Score:3, Interesting)

    by IGnatius T Foobar (4328) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:34PM (#9735210) Homepage Journal
    I think it would be wise of the Mozilla developers to begin thinking about their next big innovation in web browsing, so that "switchers" will continue switching even after the inevitable addition of Tabbed Browsing to Internet Explorer.
  • We switched! (Score:3, Informative)

    by cspenn (689387) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {tsacdopdialaicnanif}> on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:36PM (#9735224) Homepage Journal


    We're an aggressive small business based south of Boston, one of the quietly prospering dotcoms that didn't get razed by the bubble bursting. About a year ago, I was brought on to help manage the many technology challenges facing our company, and one of them was taming the chaos of the Internet from an end-user perspective. Mozilla FireSomething was exactly what the doctor ordered to reduce chaos and help bring safer browsing to the company. Combined with Thunderbird's built in spam reduction, our use of Mozilla products and the switch away from Microsoft-based products has kept us safe from a majority of exploits available today. We've even begun developing to take advantage of Mozilla's unique features, like tabbed browsing, which expedites the processing of student loans. No more browsing with hundreds of IE instances open, just one clean, easy to manage browser interface with tabs. If you ever call in to StudentLoanConsolidator.com to have your federal student loans consolidated, the clicking sound you hear in the background is our in house loan consolidation application and several tabs in Firefox being opened just for you.

    Kudos to the Mozilla team for making our work more productive than ever!
  • by Prince Vegeta SSJ4 (718736) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:46PM (#9735266)
    I always want to be able to view all of the feature rich multimedia sites, however, I am unable to do this in Mozilla.

    Internet Explorer may have some problems, but I can look past those since MS graciously supplies me with FREE patches.

    The words of Clippy

    • by Ari_Haviv (796424) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:26PM (#9735454) Homepage
      and you graciously supply the russian mafia with FREE credit card accounts.
  • galion.lib.oh.us (Score:5, Informative)

    by jonadab (583620) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:00PM (#9735334) Homepage Journal
    Galion Public Library uses Mozilla.org browsers exclusively. (I'm the
    computer guy.)

    However, we previously used mostly Communicator. We did have MSIE on *one*
    computer at one point, but that system was so much trouble that when Windows
    got cranky and needed to be reinstalled, we didn't bother. The librarians
    were offering to dig a hole in the flower gardens and bury it; they weren't
    interested in having it fixed; they wanted it replaced. Also, reinstalling
    would have been a problem since we didn't have the original driver disks
    (not my fault; we didn't have them when I was hired), and with its being a
    Compaq Deskpro (no model number _anywhere_, and there are dozens of models,
    and you have to know which one you have...), finding the correct drivers on
    the net was promising real pain. This was late 2000. I put TurboLinux on
    it and it served as a CGI server for a couple of years after that without
    incident.

    None of the librarians has ever asked me why we don't use MSIE. (Some of
    them have asked me about the difference between Mozilla and Netscape, though.)
    No patron AFAIK has ever specifically asked for Internet Explorer either. I
    do get occasional complaints from patrons about certain plugins not being
    installed (most frequently Flash), but that's not nearly as many complaints
    as I get about the Yahoo! Mail and Hotmail interfaces (neither of which we
    endorse or recommend; we officially do not provide email: we merely provide
    access to the web).

    I should note that our catalog stations within the library are not web-based.
    We have a web-based catalog so people can get to our catalog from home, but
    within the library the catalog stations are VT510 dumb terminals, connected
    only to the automation system via ports (on a DECServer) which are only
    privileged for OPAC (i.e., the catalog) and nothing else. For our older
    patrons, the dumb terminals are easier to use and less intimidating than
    a web-based system. (The OPAC literally tells you what buttons to push,
    and there's no need to know how to use a mouse, which is good because a
    lot of people around here aren't comfortable with computer mice yet.)
  • by psychophil.com (2573) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:08PM (#9735371) Homepage
    Actually we just had a case where we had to switch an entire department of users from Mozilla back to IE. We tried using Mozilla on a win2k terminal server and it was a failure. The footprint for each users mozilla session ranged from 25 to 60(!)mb. Way too much strain on the server. IE only cost us 15-20mb per session. We tried firefox but with w2k's 256 color limitation on terminal sessions, most toolbar icons showed as black squares rendering the software unusable.

    We posted several questions/suggestions to the mozilla boards but they went unanswered. We've also had a similar problem with the lack of an msi for mozilla/thunderbird/firebird rollouts. Makes mass migrations near impossible. Mozilla does not seem to want to address large scale use such as terminal services and automated installs.
    • by rsilvergun (571051) on Monday July 19, 2004 @12:04AM (#9735602)
      with a 256 color skin? If there isn't one already, it shouldn't be too hard to make. The MSI installer shouldn't be too hard to write either. Installing Firefox is basically just extracting the files and adding a few short cuts. Isn't the MSI api designed to make stuff like that easy?
    • by Tim C (15259) on Monday July 19, 2004 @02:19AM (#9736046)
      We tried firefox but with w2k's 256 color limitation on terminal sessions

      I've used Win2K Terminal Server quite a bit, and I've never seen a 256 colour limitation. You can choose to limit the colour depth (eg to save bandwidth), but it's definitely not a hard limit. I'd suggest you take a look at the configuration of your server (and possibly clients)...
    • We tried firefox but with w2k's 256 color limitation on terminal sessions, most toolbar icons showed as black squares rendering the software unusable.

      One theme that does work in 256-color Terminal Services is "708090-lite" by Ronald Buehlmann [ormaxx.ch]. It's not the prettiest, but it does get the job done.

      I used to know a good color theme, but it wasn't updated yet when I moved to Firefox 0.9, and now I've forgotten it.
  • I switched recently (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kbahey (102895) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:35PM (#9735488) Homepage

    I switched recently from MS IE to FireFox 9.0, and Thunderbird.

    I have never seen a popup ad since, and spyware is almost non-existent.

    I have also switched my wife's computer to FireFox.

    I even switched at work as well, and briefly tested Outlook Web Access from Mozilla, and it worked fine.

    At work, I found two other people who switched on their own about the same time I did, after all the exploits in MS IE were publicized. I am talking to a third person about switching his mom because of spyware problems.

    I am also talking to another development group that are doing ActiveX plugins for MS IE for a client, and advising them of the pitfalls and the headaches they are getting the client into.

    It is not all rosy though, there are issues:

    • FireFox does not display the side menus on some web sites. For example, check Al Jazeera [aljazeera.net] front page in MS IE and in FireFox, and see all the stuff that it misses (at least it does not miss the marquee on the top, yuck!). By the way, Konquerer on Mandrake 10.0 renders the same web site far better than FireFox. Kind of strange.
    • FireFox bookmark operations (adding a bookmark, organizing, ..etc.) take forever to complete. I am talking minutes! Don't know why.
    • Thunderbird is a memory hog on my 128MB machine. I do not run my email program all the time anymore. Only when I need to check or write email. I do not know if it is memory leaks or its usage is too much. Anyway, the switch from Outlook Express is worth it, because the mail format is no longer hostage to Microsoft .dbx format, and I can copy the mail files to my server (which I do every week), and then grep in them for the info I need from the command line.

    Overall, I am happy with FireFox from the functionality, features, and usability points of view. Can't say the same about Thunderbird due to the bloat and slowing my machine to a crawl.

  • by mnmn (145599) on Monday July 19, 2004 @12:19AM (#9735668) Homepage
    Except for its latest incarnation Firefox. I used to use netscape 3.0, and from then on, hated its bloatware develelopment into what became Netscape 7. I used IE during this time, which itself competed in the international Hall of Bloat competition, but was second to Netscape, and later to Mozilla.

    Mozilla started out as a free Netscape, with ALL the browsers features. That was the big mistake. Noone can wait 15 seconds to load a page, or fork out $$$ for more memory to run a simple browser, IE stayed a little closer to the 'balance' during this time, making itself more palatable to the ex-Netscape crowd.

    Then came along Opera. They understood the game, and sold exactly what the public needed. During these days of running highly bloated spyware-infested applications on ever-faster CPUs, opera was a refresher. Everyone took notice.

    And now, the team whose products I hated for so long blew my mind.

    First I installed it on windows. It worked. It took little memory and never froze. Thats not like Netscape or IE at all. Then I installed it in Linux. It just worked. I didnt even have to wrestle with the source code. It even allowed flash plugins designed for netscape/mozilla.

    That gave me the idea I could possibly put my sun Ultra5 and RS/6000 to good use, both of which lacked a good browser for basic usability. Thats when I realized the Mozilla Foundation has put its house back in order. They've produced a fast efficient and secure browser that compiles and runs anywhere, and only uses the CPU cycles it needs (almost). Just what all software should be like.

    It has taken almost a decade for the software producing world to realize Bloat=Bad=No Profits. N A free piece o code like firefox will set a trend, hopefully even with Microsoft, whose Win98 is still used around because its smaller and faster than WinXP.Now why was that so difficult?
    • by pe1chl (90186)
      What do you mean it is bloatware?
      You mean it includes a mailer? But we USE the mailer. So when it wasn't included, it would have to be a separate program.
      And when that separate mailer wants to display a HTML message, it somehow needs to include HTML functionality that the browser already has.
      You mean it includes the composer? But when you want to compose a mail message in HTML you are using that same composer. So it is required anyway.

      I think when using browser+mail, Mozilla does not include that much
  • by EvilStein (414640) <spam@@@pbp...net> on Monday July 19, 2004 @02:10AM (#9736029) Homepage
    Yeah, s'mee again!

    FIX the bloody calendar. Make it work. At least make it so where emailed invites can easily be added to the recipient's calendar, instead of opening within a new browser window. Pretty simple stuff like that.

    We can't switch because the calendar just sucks compared to what users have unfortunately become quite accustomed to in Microsoft Outlook.
    They don't care about the mail - Mozilla works better. They care about the *Calendar* and the basic PIM stuff that Outlook has. We don't even use Exchange, but if another Outlook user sends a calendar request, Mozilla can't do squat with it.
    So, they try to cling to Outlook.
    Thunderbird/Firefox are not suitable/mature enough replacements, and besides, the Calendar will still suck because it's from the same codebase.

    bring back the days of Netscape Calendar - or something. I'm telling you folks, cross platform calendaring applications may very well be the killer app for small businesses.
    Right now, Mozilla isn't going too far where I work because of the lack of a serious calendaring application.
    And that sucks, really. =/
  • by edunbar93 (141167) on Monday July 19, 2004 @03:27AM (#9736243)
    Before Mozilla, my PC was getting 0wn3d three times a day. I kept getting virus after malware after popup. Every time I turned around, there were a dozen popups on my screen, multiplying by the second, and my home page kept changing to random porn sites.

    Now that I have Mozilla, my computer is getting 0wn3d only once a day! New technology has come out to save me from my own gullible self, but the power of human stupidity prevails. Thanks Mozilla!

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