New Speed Record For Hybrid Cars 411
prostoalex writes "According to CarPages, Toyota Prius set a new world record for hybrid vehicles. It 'set the mark at 130.794 mph on the three-mile short course using a standard Hybrid Synergy Drive power-train - a mixture of 1.5 litre petrol engine and an electric motor.'"
The FASTEST...erm... (Score:5, Informative)
Not exactly standard... (Score:5, Informative)
"An engineering group from Toyota Motorsport in the USA prepared the car by changing the gear ratios (4.32:1 to 3.2:1) and increasing the inverter voltage from 500 to 550 volts. A transmission cooling system was added to decrease the temperature of the inverter and electric motor to maximise efficiency. Ambient temperature on the salt flats was nearly 100 degrees Fahrenheit with nearly 100 degrees humidity. Ice was added between runs to keep the system cool.
The interior of the car was stripped to save weight, a roll cage added for safety and the whole car lowered by five inches to improve the aerodynamics for this highly specialised record attempt. Even the 26 in front and 25 in rear tyres were made especially by Goodyear."
With that in mind, hybrids have a long way to go.
Re:130mph (Score:2, Informative)
Hybrid technology needed a little redneckization.. (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, as a side note, the industry's approach to hybrid autos is flat out wrong. Railroad trains are very efficient, well-proven hybrid designs: [dieselforum.org] their diesel engines are always running at the most efficient level, and their momentum is provided entirely by electric motors. Tres spiffy.
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:OOOOH WOW (Score:5, Informative)
A hybrid McLaren might be pretty nice if you as me...
Re:Wait (Score:3, Informative)
1993 Hummer 20.2 seconds.
Now which car "has a long way to go" before its ready for the masses?
Re:Hybrid technology needed a little redneckizatio (Score:3, Informative)
But that's me.
National Electric Drag Racing Association (Score:4, Informative)
The drag race pure electric cars/motorcycles...
http://www.nedra.com/ [nedra.com]
Re:They did cheat a little by stripping it. (Score:5, Informative)
Besides, Model-T's weren't speed machines, they were consumer machines that opened up the market to sectors who had never before been able to afford a car. A model-T modified for racing could reach 100 mph [modelt.ca]
Re:Wait (Score:3, Informative)
The hybrids available today have acceleration times comparable to their class of vehicles they compete with. Its a nonissue...
The record won't last long. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The FASTEST...erm... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Was the electric motor even used? (Score:3, Informative)
For Toyota's, no.
1. The powertrain is more efficient, and lighter, than a normal cars. (No complex transmission, just a simple Planetary gear.)
2. I know when I'm going down the freeway, I'm not going a perfectly constant 55 mph, nor am I travelling on a perfectly level road. (Only if your power load NEVER changes does the battery system not matter.) Quite often, I'm running on battery power alone, in fact, even at 60+ mph. (My record is going down a very slight incline, I accelerated from 61 to 63 mph on battery power alone. In my gas-only car, 'coasting' in neutral on the exact same stretch, the car settles at 56 mph.)
3. The entire 'hybrid' system adds less than 100 pounds of weight to the car, and from what I've read, the simpler transmission and engine (no alternator, no starter) actually saves about 100 pounds, so it ends up even.
I agree that setting a speed record in a hybrid is silly. But the hybrid components don't cause HARM, either.
Not quitei (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Was the electric motor even used? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Many years ago ... (Score:5, Informative)
A nice example of modern Diesel engineering is the VW Phaeton V10 Tdi. It has 313 HP and, while officially electronically limited to 250 kph (155 mph), was tested at over 290 kph (180 mph) when it was released one year ago. It does 0-100 kph (0-62 mph) in 6.9 seconds (not too shabby for a 3 metric ton car). And yet, it still gets 27.7 mpg.
To put it in a nutshell, I don't quite get what this hybrid frenzy is about. Soot emissions used to be a problem, but the latest cars get a soot filter that tackles it. On the other hand, batteries are an additional weight, and once at the end of their lives, are an environmental nightmare.
Or could it be all about oil companies being too lazy to invest into cleaner gas-oil (like they sell in Europe)?
If you're an American looking for a new car, I strongly suggest you gave the few imported diesel VWs, Audis or Mercedeses a try before you go the gasoline route.
Re:What on earth does that mean? (Score:2, Informative)
Although, it's probably just someone being dumb. Just not NECESSARILY.
Re:Not exactly standard... (Score:5, Informative)
Lexus hybrid SUV [msn.com]
Toyota hybrid SUV [toyota.com]
Hybrid trucks and SUVs from other manufactures [fueleconomy.gov]
Re:Was the electric motor even used? (Score:2, Informative)
The electric motor is the only motor that drives the wheels - the gas engine runs a genset that generates the electric.
That's not how the Prius works. " the electric motor can power the car by itself, the gas engine can power the car by itself or they can power the car together." http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car16.htm [howstuffworks.com]
Of course, I wasn't right either. The gas engine in the Prius is only 76 horsepower. The electric is 67 horsepower. In order to get maximum power, you've gotta run both engines at once.
Re:The FASTEST...erm... (Score:3, Informative)
For any car, fuel economy varies depending on the driver's habits (e.g., accelerating to a red light) and the driving conditions (e.g., snow). When you hear people complain that they get less than the rated fuel economy, consider that it's probably the driver, not the car. A driver who gets 20% worse than the rated fuel economy in a hybrid would probably also get 20% worse than the rated fuel economy in a normal car.
With my Honda Insight, I have found the official fuel economy numbers to be reasonably accurate on average. In good weather, I easily beat the rated fuel economy. In bad weather, I don't.
Re:Was the electric motor even used? (Score:3, Informative)
Actualy, the electric motor combo (there are two in a Prius) are used as a transmission. This eliminates all friction parts in the transmission and hydraulic parts. Nothing shifts ever, even reverse. I expect the electric motors to have much less troubles than a typical transmission with it's torque converter, bands, clutches, shifters, fluid hoses, cooling...
In a nutshell, the electric motors are used all the time. The car won't go without them to deliver the engine torque. Sometimes they take extra power from batteries to help acceleration and sometimes they dump extra power generated back into the batteries.
Do some research on the Synergy drive the car uses. The mechanical transmission is simply a planetary gear pancaked in-between the two motor/generators. This makes the mechanical part of the transmission very compact and light.
Re:130mph (Score:2, Informative)
That's 305HP, 24-25MPG, with an automatic. In the convertible version (heavier than the hardtop). Drive conservatively in a hardtop, with the 6-speed manual, you can beat that. But I never can drive conservatively with the 6-speed cars...
By comparison: I drove a 1995 Pontiac Sunfire GT for several years. Half the horspower / torque, about 800-lbs less weight. It got slightly better mileage. Slightly. But the V8's way more fun.
Re:Dullsville? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not exactly standard... (Score:3, Informative)
Moll.
Re:This won't last long... (Score:3, Informative)
In addition to the Honda you've stated, Lexus (aka Toyota) will also be releasing the RX400h (275hp hybrid) and then their is the rumored LS500 hybrid in typical toyota fashion all we know is that it will be a hybrid with more hp than the LS430.
Re:Hybrids are stupid (Score:3, Informative)
According to Honda... (Score:4, Informative)
It has a 995 cc 3 cylinder gas engine putting out about 63 hp. In series it has a 13 hp electric engine. Because the 2 engines have different hp/rpm curves, it puts out 68 hp. But it only weighs 1850 pounds.
The car goes 0-60 in 10.5 seconds, has really good handling, and drives kind of like a go kart. The only real bad thing is there isn't much sound insulation, so there is a fair amount of road noise.
But even going 90 mph, it can still click off about 50 mpg. At 45 mph, you can get it into 'lean burn' mode and get a bit over 100 mpg.
It's a really good commuter car, has a lifetime mileage of 56 mpg (would be a lot higher if I drove a bit more conservatively and didn't live in a hilly area).
Also, there are some electric cars that go 0-60 in 3.6 seconds IIRC.
Re:Hybrids are stupid (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Many years ago ... (Score:2, Informative)
Stop limiting your visits to Disneyworld and you might be more qualified to talk about America.
Re:Hate to spoil your fun, but... (Score:3, Informative)
As for the amount of energy to dispose of a car, my previous citation [ilea.org] says
The 120 GJ for manufacture includes all manufacturing costs. I'd say that implictly includes delivery to the customer. In the case of the 800kg car I drive most frequently, it was shipped by sea about 8 or 10 000 miles and then delivered by vehicle transporter about 200 miles. I'd say that's pretty negligible (sea transport uses orders of magnitude less energy per mile than road transport).I stand by my original observation that it's wrong to say that it costs more energy to replace a light truck with a hybrid car than it saves in using a hybrid car, but would still point out that that seems to me to be a straw man. In terms of actual choice when replacing a vehicle, then from an energy efficiency point of view, the hybrid wins. Whether it wins as compared to a high efficiency diesel is a moot point. As 9 million cars [bts.gov] are replaced each year, along with 8 million trucks (SUVs & minivans are counted in this category), it seems that concentrating on halving the energy emissions of approximately 1/13th of the fleet would make a significant impact, along with encouraging end of life cars to be taken out of the economy slightly faster. When you consider that new cars are likely to be driven much higher mileages, then the figures look better still.
In short, it's not a magic bullet, but it's a good start.
Re:This won't last long... (Score:3, Informative)
Actually its better than that, Honda upgraded their big v6 to a 255hp...
No, that's the published "total power" figure for the hybrid system. It's a 240hp gas engine plus a 15hp electric motor, which is where they get the "255hp" figure.
Re:The FASTEST...erm... (Score:3, Informative)
Fortunately, most consumers know that the "from electricity" part is far from meaningless. Quite to the contrary: it enables regenerative braking, low-end torque, and instant startup/shutdown.
Our local newspaper recently published a glowing 'news story' [...]
Well, so the quality of your local newspaper reporting matches the quality of its readers--readers like you. But just because both you and a reporter got it wrong doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't understand it.
Re:The FASTEST...erm... (Score:5, Informative)
Anyway, to clarify on hybrids:
The efficiency story goes like this: your normally car engine sucks as far as efficiency is concerned. This is because they have to operate over a wide range of speed and power requirements. Eg. from just taking off from a dead stop to running up a hill at 70mph or more. A spark engine can get to be about 30% efficient (this is from memory, it might even be up to 40%, I'd have to go look it up, and I'm feeling lazy
The trick with the hybrids like the Prius is that they have the battery+electric motor to supplement the gas engine. So, the designers can do something important: they can pick a median power output (much below maximum required power output), and design the spark engine to be maximally efficient for that power output. This allows them to get the 30-40% efficiency out of the gas engine mentioned above. The hybrid only ever runs the gas engine at this power output. If this is too much, the electric motor run the wheels. If this is too little, the motor and the engine drive the wheels. If the batteries are getting low, the gas engine drives the electric motor to charge the batteries. When braking, part of the axel motion is used to drive the electric motor and charge the batteries (reclaiming some of the energy already expended to be reused---this is the regenerative braking that others have mentioned). Note: the designers at Toyota and Honda have taken advantage of the fact that an electric motor and generator are merely the same device, which one it functions as depends on which end the energy comes in, so there is no separate generator. (And if it occurs to you that the clutching system would be complicated because of this, you're right.)
As far as being able to charge up your hybrid, there are some experimental models with that feature. You might eventually be able to do that; so if you just drive around town, you'd only rarely have to fill your tank (however, this feature requires that the bank of batteries is bigger, and 50% of the electricity in the US comes from coal, so the pollution/energy expenditure could end up being worse off the wall charge, depending on where your power comes from
Jeff
Re:Diesel? (Score:2, Informative)
In Europe, where diesel engines are more common in passenger cars, "PM Canisters" that collect soot and other particles are becoming commonplace. As such, the average diesel-powered car in Europe equipped with a DFP ("diesel particulate filter") is actually producing considerably less pollutants than any gasoline engine.
The killer, though, is emissions as the engine ages. For the most part, as a diesel engine begins to deteriorate from age, things tend to stay more or less constant.. in fact, in some ways, it actually gets a little better before it gets a tiny bit worse. But, in any case, it's not a dramatic change unless the engine is literally about to fail. Gasoline engines, however, start to deteriorate almost immediately (emissions performance wise), with the effective useful life of the emissions components being used up usually by the fourth year of use.
But the particulate argument is largely considered hogwash nowadays. If we banned conventional gasoline in 5 years, required everybody to switch to diesel engines, and swapped out all the state-run "Smog Check" programs with a requirement to swap out DFP canisters every two years at registration, we'd have eliminated the majority of the automotive smog issues in the US.
Now, we'd just have to stop dust storms and volcanoes.