New Photovoltaics Made with Titanium Foil 346
Memorize writes "A company called Daystartech has released a new type of photovoltaic cell which, unlike almost all the cells currently in use, does not silicon. This is based on a thin titanium film. Given the current shortage of solar-grade silicon, and all-time high oil prices, maybe titanium solar panels are here at the right time. The questions are, will they release it as a consumer solar product, and what will be the price per kilowatt hour?"
Slicon Shortage (Score:5, Interesting)
How does this compare? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I gotta say... (Score:2, Interesting)
How about consumer devices that rely so much on silicon? I've wondered why germanium or something else with a lower switching voltage isn't used more often.
Actually, they are CIGS solar cells (Score:1, Interesting)
www.appliedfilms.com/Precision2/11_photovoltaic
Solar cells from biology (Score:5, Interesting)
One possibility is to use melanin - the skin pigment that gives our skins colour. Being in Australia, of course, researching melanin is of significant interest to us! It's yet another example of biology helping to make really cool physics - more details are available on UQ's physics blog [illuminatingscience.org].
sweet deal (Score:5, Interesting)
[...]
Over a two year period, both DayStar and Albany NanoTech will each contribute $375,000 and NYSTAR will contribute $750,000.
Nice. So, basically, The state of NY puts in three quarters of a million dollars because DayStar promises not to go elsewhere and to graciously donate $350,000 to research that...will directly benefit them and pretty much nobody else.
I'm sorry, but I'm getting really sore for public funds being used to bankroll essentially private R&D done by public, for profit companies. Of course, it's not nearly as bad as the biotech industry, which whores itself out like nobody's business. Did you know we give the biotech industry about $30 billion (yes, billion) a year? Just GIVE it away? No strings attached? That exceeds -estimated- TOTAL tax (local, state, and federal) collected by around $6BN. Virtually 100% of all biotech related R&D is paid for by you and me, while the industry rakes in well over $200BN a year.
And to think they have the gall to whine about how expensive drug research is, or how risky it is! They're NOT PAYING FOR IT!
Re:Slicon Shortage (Score:4, Interesting)
I was under the impression that most of the toxic byproducts inherent in working with silicon were the result of the doping process wherein elements like germanium and arsenic are added to the surface silicon to create transistors, diodes, gates, etc. I would expect using a titanium substrate to require something similar. Would it not?
solar schmolar -- CROPS are the real solar energy (Score:5, Interesting)
Why? There isn't enough energy in the sunlight to sustain the metabolic rate required for movement. In billions of years, nature hasn't figured out how to covert enough sunlight into energy to sustain an animal's movement other than by concentrating it first into vegetable matter which can be eaten.
For humans to make use of energy, we pretty much have to burn something. We have to release solar energy stored as food, then in most cases concentrated in the form of hydrocarbons.
Fission energy, fancy as it may be, is still about just making water hot. For that matter, if they get there, so will fusion energy be.
We humans are stunningly good at burning things and making excuses for the things we do that are essentially asocial. Aside from that, we're not exactly all that and a bag of chips.
There's no such thing as free energy. The trick we need to find is how to tap bigger forces. Tidal forces with tethered floating generators which rise and fall with the tides and capture that motion as energy would be good. Finding that so called vacume energy between particals would be a fairly useful trick as well.
Making giant solar panels which turn sunlight into energy at less efficiency than plants, then waste most of it in transmission and storage overhead is ultimately not going to win.
More near term, we need to find or engineer a crop which is ideally suited to concentrating sunlight into a hydrocarbon or sugar that can be stored, transported without sigificant loss, then burned.
Unless one of you
Re:This has all been gone over before... (Score:5, Interesting)
A quick Google search shows that on earth every square meter receives about 4.2kwh of energy per day over a 24 hour period. [ucsusa.org]
A quick look at my electric bill says I use about 20kwh/day as a rough average -- another Google search suggests that the average US household uses approximately 25kwh/day [hypertextbook.com]
...So, finishing the math: using 15% efficiency solar cells, the Average US Household needs only 40 square meters (430 square feet) of solar cells to cover all its energy needs. Heck, I could use 5% solar cells on my roof in downtown San Francisco, and STILL have 2x extra capacity to sell back to the grid!
Don't get me wrong: Solar won't solve everything, particularly in applications like transportation where energy storage is an issue --- and cheap Fission IS something we should have figured out a long time ago --- but please don't resort to misinformation to make your points, it only weakens what you are saying.
Re:This has all been gone over before... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Slicon Shortage (Score:1, Interesting)
For example, Oreos. The creme is lard + sugar + titanium dioxide.
designed to be lightweight (Score:3, Interesting)
This device is designed for aeropsace applications; that is, it's a lightweight solar cell. At the bottom, there's a blurb about being able to supply electricity at commercially viable prices - but electricity is currently generated by oil, which is a volotile commodity, so it depends on how much oil-generated electricity "costs" on a given day.
Not too many years from now, oil demand will permanently outstrip supply - so when that happens, solar will probably become permanently economically viable. At which time, mass-production will drive down initial costs.
The issue of how long a given solar cell produces usefull power is also part of it - because if, over the life of the cell, it produces electricity of a given market value, above what it cost to make, then it's "economically viable" - therefore, of the three factors involved in determining "economic viability"
1. Initial cost to produce.
2. Longevity of the cell.
3. Market value of electricity over the life of the cell.
#1 is not the crucial variable. #2 also, really isn't a crucial variable. #3 IS. So if electricity is cheap, or if the cell doesn't last long (both of which are the current barriers to solar power being "economically viable") then it's not worth it.
When electricity becomes expensive (compared to today) - then solar power becomes more attractive.
Or, if some new type of solar cell becomes available that will have a useful lifespan of say, 50 years, instead of 20, that will make a difference. But the main factor is the cheapness of electricity. (some folks of the green persuasion might even say that electricity does not currently cost what it should, that there are many "hidden costs" - like funding wars to secure petroleum, ecological costs of the waste products, etc. - Kinda makes all this "free market" talk sound kinda silly.)
Re:solar schmolar -- CROPS are the real solar ener (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:solar schmolar -- CROPS are the real solar ener (Score:2, Interesting)
You said: "Fission energy, fancy as it may be, is still about just making water hot. For that matter, if they get there, so will fusion energy be."
That's true about fission. And although that's one obvious way to generate electricity from a fusion reactor, a lot of fusion research has also gone into magnetohydrodynamic generators. I won't try to explain them (because I can't; I don't really understand them myself) but google might be able to get you started if you're interested.
It was also mentioned in a thermodynamics class I took that research has gone into using magnetohydrodynamic generators in conventional fuel-burning plants, because they can operate at much higher temperatures (and so, higher efficiencies) than conventional machinery like turbines and generators. But apparently the energy producers have pretty much given up on the technology, choosing to go with incremental improvements like higher pressures for the working fluid, more topping cycles, and ceramics for things like turbine blades. I guess plasma physics is difficult. Who'd have guessed?
Anyway, that's all. I thought it was cool.
Re:solar schmolar -- CROPS are the real solar ener (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree with much of what you say. There's just a couple of things I want to comment on.
This suggestion isn't really viable. The problem is that electric power needs to be continuous, and electric energy can't really be stored in the quantities needed for widespread use. Because of this, the large surges of power and subsequent falloffs that we would get with tidal generation make it kind of undesirable as a power source. A much more promising idea that's been talked about for some time is to put turbines in the path of a major ocean current such as the Gulf Stream. After all, the oceans are the world's biggest solar collector, and a significant portion of that energy goes into generating these currents. It's a huge untapped source of energy.
They have this. It's biodiesel made with canola. read about it here. [biodiesel.org]
Ultimately, we just need to get off burning fossil fuels. After all, when you consider that energy on earth comes from two places, the planet's core, and, moreso, the sun, fossil fuels are solar energy stored by plants and animals millions of years ago. It's a finite supply, and frankly, we shouldn't be nearly as reliant on it as we are.
Re:Slicon Shortage (Score:5, Interesting)
Here we report an electrochemical method for the direct reduction of solid TiO2, in which the oxygen is ionized, dissolved in a molten salt and discharged at the anode, leaving pure titanium at the cathode. The simplicity and rapidity of this process compared to conventional routes should result in reduced production costs and the approach should be applicable to a wide range of metal oxides.
Limits: Cost vs. Cost-Ignoring Applications (Score:3, Interesting)
There are applications for which the efficiency matters more directly, because the alternatives are vastly more expensive, or there are other constraints. For instance, spacecraft have issues with launching weight and available surface area, and solar-powered unmanned surveillance spook planes also have those problems (probably surface area's more important for them than weight is.)
For some residential applications, efficiency can matter, for instance if you're trying to power your house with solar cells only mounted on your roof, but that's still really about economics, because you're comparing the cost of solar with buying power from the power company. A more efficient solar cell might generate more power from your roof area, but if it costs too much, you won't use it, you'll buy power. (
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Slicon Shortage (Score:4, Interesting)
As an mildly interesting bullet to follow that of parent's, titanium can apparently "catch fire" under the right conditions (that being high temperature and pressure). I hadn't conceived of this until working at my current engineer job where commercial and military aircraft engines get made
Re:Solar cells from biology (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, because we're so sunny, solar power is an excellent option - particularly outback (i.e., the bush!) Everywhere (I think) has electricity, but it's a pain to string wires out over those distances - it would be a lot simpler (cheaper too?) to have solar cells on every property.
And no, we don't think that you're all gun-toting maniacs. Not most of you, anyway. It's just the vocal minority that gives Americans a bad name!
Re:Slicon Shortage (Score:5, Interesting)
Want to see something really cool? Check out "Liquidmetal" [liquidmetal.com]. It's an alloy of titanium and other metals and has some really amazing properties. For one, it can be cast and does not form crystals like titanium, has a low melting tempature compared to it's component metals - it can actually be injection-molded. It's twice as strong as titanium by weight and much more flexible. There's a bounce-test video on their web site that it a hoot.
Right now it's being used for the hinges in that new Motorola Razor phone, various sporting goods and military applications. Cool stuff.
CIGS (Score:3, Interesting)
Why such a large drop in the efficiency ?
Re:Slicon Shortage (Score:1, Interesting)
Also, the reason glassy metals could only be used in very small parts originally is that they had to be cooled very, very rapidly to prevent a crystalline structure from forming in the metal and ruining it. These newer generations of glassy metals are doped with various trace metals that help prevent those crystals from forming, giving them a much longer window to cool down in, which in turn means larger parts are possible.
If you can track it down, there was a great article on this company in discover magazine a year or so ago.
Re:solar schmolar -- CROPS are the real solar ener (Score:3, Interesting)
Even worse, current human energy usage is 400 times the carbon fixing ability of the biosphere. 400 times! At this scale, Biodiesel and all these other biosphere harvesting technologies are not simply small potatoes - they are lost in the noise.
By contrast, solar radiation is currently at least two orders of magnitude over current consumption. Nuclear options (including geothermal if reactors give you the willies) are not constrained by the "efficiency" of plants either and can scale. But biosphere harvesting is not going to cut it.