Utah Teens Invent Better Air Conditioner 755
Carl Youngblood writes "Two recent Utah high school graduates won the first-ever Ricoh Sustainable Development Award for inventing a better car air conditioner based on the Peltier effect. The peltier chips used in the device are more energy-efficient, last between 20 and 30 years, are solid-state, and don't harm the environment with ozone-depleting freon like today's car air conditioners."
Since the article seems to be AWOL now... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:No more freon in cars (Score:5, Interesting)
New car electrical system (Score:3, Interesting)
Wasn't there supposed to be a new 48v electrical system standard for all cars by now?
It would allow people to hook up better electronics to their vehicle, plus it would make the car more energy efficient. The example I heard was that instead of a belt driven AC unit, it would be electical.
The article I had read at the time stated that the standard would be implemented in 2005. Does anyone know about this?
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The problem is the power supply from the Altena (Score:3, Interesting)
If you push the pedal to the floor with the A/C on you'll get your performance, at the cost of warmer air until you are done.
cool things about this idea (Score:4, Interesting)
2. unit can be in passenger area and not in engine compartment
3. you could have several small units instead of one big one
4. flip the peltiers and you have a heater
5. no pulley being spun even when not in use
6. should be much lighter (although alternator would get bigger)
"can't tell"? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm sorry, but you're completely full of shit. Every time my A/C compressor clicks on while I'm driving, I can tell; I drive a manual, and if I'm paying enough attention, I can tell especially if revs are low (ie 2k).
Vapour phase airconditioning uses direct power from the engine, which often has an output of 100+ Kilowatts.
You are making the assumption that the engine produces its power evenly across the band, which is outright garbage. Most engines make much more horsepower at high engine speed; better engines tend to keep making that power the closer they approach redline (at high engine speeds, resistance in exhaust and intake paths kills horsepower because volumetric efficiency drops).
The engine will not make NEARLY as much power down at ranges people typically use; ie 2000 to 3000 RPMs. Example- the current Ford Mustang engine (no, I don't drive one- just the first chart I could find) makes 250HP at 5,000RPM+. At 2,500 RPM, it makes 100HP. The chart started at 2,500; numbers probably drop to 50HP at 2000. Suddenly, an AC compressor that uses several HP becomes a two-digit percentage of total engine output. While humans suck at absolute measurements, we can be -really- good at picking up on the finest relative differences.
Also, maximum claimed horsepower is often under ideal circumstances; ie cool air temps, engine cold/warm not at full operating temp, lightweight oil, and at sea level. It's also always on a perfectly functioning engine; ie fresh air cleaner, ignition bits are all new, perfect compression in all cylinders, etc.
Stirling engines as heat exchangers? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Freon isn't used in new cars! (Score:3, Interesting)
Another theory of mine (and it is strictly a theory, absolutely *zero* research has been applied to proving or disproving this theory) is that as we develop more and more enclosed space, we are heating the planet more and more. Here's how it goes:
Air conditioners remove heat from the air. That fact is known and well documented. Consider all of the skyscrapers, office buildings, high-rises, and apartment buildings in modern society. Hot air rises, and cool air sinks. We all know about convection as a method of heat transfer. More energy is used to cool the upper spaces of a structure, since the heat is deposited there (it has nowhere else to go, after all!).
Consider this: as an air conditioner draws air into the system, passing it through the evaporator coil, it removes heat from the air by allowing the refrigerant to absorb its heat. As the refrigerant passes through the condenser coil, it removes this heat through conduction via the fins that are attached to the condenser coil and the fan that moves air over those fins. Where does that heated air go? Why, to the atmosphere.
*GRANTED* most of the heat is lost to radiation into space after dark. but the contribution to rising of average temperatures cannot (IMHO) be denied.
Also consider our refrigerators, freezers, beer coolers, water dispensers, etc. etc. These all have to vent heat from their respective cargoes somewhere, which is typically our homes/offices. That heat is then vented outside by our air conditioners.
It seems small I know, but the cumulative effect could be staggering (like every car in the U.S. getting 1/100 M.P.G. lower fuel economy). I theorize that these very systems contribute to global warming, and will continue to do so as we build more urban populous centers and continue to build higher into the sky. I welcome any contrary evidence.
Re:No more freon in cars (Score:3, Interesting)
According to my company, the non-cash benefits I receive cost them (and our customers ultimately) more than half my cash salary in addition (I do have an excellent benefit package though)
>> And Japan has alot of socialized services, such as National Health Care. As a result, the Japanese corporations are able to remain much, much more competitive
having company-run unions help the japanese corps *just* a little bit there too.
Yeah, right. (Score:2, Interesting)
a) bought a few cheap peltier chips
b) use fans to get a slightly cool breeze out of them
c) Assumed that this is the same as a car A/C unit
In fact car A/Cs have quite a large amount of cooling power, probably 100 times what they are producing.
As anyone with half a clue about this knows, Peltier devices are very INefficient, and are only useful in certain circumstances where the inefficiency doesn't matter (such as a really hot server chip where you don't care how much energy you waste, to get the heat out of it).
It's not like they've invented a new type of Peltier device; they openly say they bought some chips of Ebay.
It would be nice if they had discovered some new effect or configuration, but to me it sounds more like cluelessness and a bunch of equally clueless adults encouraging them. In reality cooling technology is very well understood.
Re:/.ed (Score:4, Interesting)
"Invent" is a pretty strong word when you can go and find those mini in-car
If one determines that it takes 5kw to cool a space then that's what it takes. At that point, it dosen't matter except for efficiency and other factors (i.e. environmental concerns) what you use to move the heat, but that's the power you'll need to provide... Unless you're using magic or mutant powers or something.
In this car, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
Re:Freon isn't used in new cars! (Score:4, Interesting)
These kids won against others because they did something others with knowlege knew was no big deal, and those that judged only looked at it superficially and thought it was a big deal.
It reminds me of a famous artist that developed an apparent way of dramaticly inproving fuel efficiency in internal combustion engines. By putting a spacer under the carby he optimised the motor to run while idling, dramaticly reducing the amount of fuel it used on a test bed - because the motor had been optimised to run at a specific load. He completely missed the point (that you want the motor to do something) and the press didn't realise either. The judges in this competition have also missed the point and gone for drama over utility.
Acoustic refrigeration? (Score:2, Interesting)
Apparently Ben and Jerry's is installing them in stores. Forget that. I want to be able to buy one at Home Depot so I don't have to keep buying crappy standard window air conditioners with their loud compressors.
Coolchips (Score:2, Interesting)
But I can't wait to these [coolchips.com] get to market.
They have build a prototype fab somewhere in eastern europe, are a little late on schedule because of lack of funding, but it still sounds prommising to me. They have been mentioned on Slashdot [slashdot.org] before.
Re:"can't tell"? (Score:3, Interesting)
Turn off your headlights and your foglights (driving with them on makes people look like a dorks anyways) and you will have more than enough power restored for the AC.
My econobox that get's 42mpg went up to an average of 43mpg when I disabled the Daytime Running lights that was simply a diode that was turning on the headlamps when the car was running.
granted i drive highway speeds 909% of the time, but ther are many more power hogs in your car that are drawing more than the airconditioner does.
Re:No more freon in cars (Score:2, Interesting)
Clueless kids (Score:4, Interesting)
These kids didn't really test their system - as in, make measurements of fuel economy with the old system and with the new system in real conditions and see what the difference was. They just assumed that "If we get rid of the load from the compressor, we will save 10 HP that will save X amount of fuel" (ignoring the load from the alternator).
Now, if they had wanted to REALLY do something that would cool the vehicle without costing more gas, they would have mated an adsorption cooler [lpappliances.com] to the exhaust manifold, and recovered the energy to run the cooling system from the waste heat discarded to the atmosphere.
Peltier cooling for fuel rails. reubengathright.co (Score:1, Interesting)
I have been running a 300Watt Peltier based system on my Dodge Dakota for over a year now. The system cools my fuel rails down to about 70F or less (depending on ambient temps). The system has been proven to increase HP (you've heard it all now right?).
The concept is what should intrest other "inventors". My system pulls 30 amps and uses two water pumps. 30+ Amps is the load you will expect to cool any type of vehicle with today's TEC's.
For more details and pictures, please visit: http://www.reubengathright.com/DakFuellRailCoolin
Thanks,
Reuben Gathright
Software Engineer, part time gear head.
P.S. The site is horrible on the eyes, I do not have research funding to spend on webdesign.
Re:/.ed (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:No more freon in cars (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:/.ed (Score:2, Interesting)
Second, convertibles on average will get worse gas milage. They are not as smooth and are heavier (to add support for since the frame doesn't wrap fully around).
but, no one buys a convertiable to save on gas. And if you bought a Geo convertiable, 'the hell's wrong with you?
Re:/.ed (Score:3, Interesting)
After looking online at a few sites I did find some interesting peltier coolers that might do a good job, but you are still talking about 500-1500 watts to do the job.
Well duh not thinking too well this morning, just remembered that the trend of auto is going towards hybride which happen to have 5000-15000watt generators built in. Maybe they're going to be practical after all.
It would be interesting to have them installed in a vehicle with a roof covered in solar cells. They could left on to keep things from heating too much while you were gone. Due to there nature they could also be intergrated into places such as the floor or the roof where they wouldn't take up much in the way of space.
Re:/.ed (Score:2, Interesting)
Without turbulence, aerodynamic drag increases linearly with velocity. With turbulence, it increases with the square of the velocity.