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The Internet Businesses

Retail Fraud on the Rise 663

Posted by Zonk from the social-hacking dept.
prostoalex writes "They buy the merchandise, print their own receipts, and return it. They buy two watches - an expensive one and inexpensive one, and then swap them and return the one with the highest price. Business Week talks about retail scams, and how merchants are trying to avoid them without losing the customer service battle. They are fighting against surprisingly sophisticated techniques, too." From the article: "Q: What role do auction Web sites play in all this? A: Retailers have stopped giving cash back in many different cases. Instead, they do refunds in the form of gift cards or store credits or store value cards. If a crook can get enough of those, he might sell $2,500 worth of gift cards for $2,000 online. It's a benefit for the buyer, who gets a discount and will use those gift cards. And the person who has manipulated the return-scam system has a way to [make money]. But the retailers lose out. "
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Retail Fraud on the Rise More

Retail Fraud on the Rise

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  • This is unethical (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DotNM ( 737979 ) * <matt@@@mattdean...ca> on Friday August 05, 2005 @05:49PM (#13253823) Homepage
    I feel that it's actually very disgusting that people do this. It can ruin it for everyone by retailers getting burned by activities such as this and deciding not to accept returns or similar decisions. I think it's just a matter of time before many companies decide to allow exchanges only and prohibit returns. If they do adopt the policy of no returns and exchanges only, it should be explicitly signed at the point of sale so that everyone knows before they buy that they can exchange only and not return the products. Where are these peoples' moral compass?

    • Re:This is unethical (Score:5, Funny)

      by centauri ( 217890 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @05:55PM (#13253865) Homepage
      Where are these peoples' moral compass?

      They returned them in place of $50 Swiss models.
    • They're theives...they have no moral compass...surprise, surprise...
    • Where are these peoples' moral compass?

      Lemme see... we have a story about videogames violence, another about piracy, another about corporations prosecuting software developers...

      the answer: there is NO moral compass anymore. People just do what they want.

      • Re:This is unethical (Score:5, Insightful)

        by rossifer ( 581396 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @10:29PM (#13255689) Journal
        the answer: there is NO moral compass anymore. People just do what they want.

        That sounds like a Christian analysis of secular culture. But like most quips, it doesn't hold up under scrutiny. The article about videogame violence talks about the decline in violent crime (FBI Uniform Crime Reports) that has occured at the same time as increasing realism in video games, including violent games. The article about piracy is actually discussing how businesses have taken a highly nuanced topic (copyright) and are successfully selling their very one-sided interpretation to governments in Europe.

        The problem with thieves is that they have learned not to value long-term goals or to put weight on medium to long term consequences. As a result, their moral decision making is skewed towards what they can get away with right now, while simultaneously discounting the effects their actions might have on themselves and the people around them.

        As to how and why this happens, some see their parents or others in the community around them growing old and miserable, having worked hard for a long time and getting very little for it. Some are taught that morals are a set of rules without any explanation of the why's behind the rules. When "because I said so" doesn't answer the question any more, but no other answer is given, people will successfully learn to ignore their perfectly functioning conscience in favor of what they've learned (rationalization).

        Sadly, I'll now have to explain that understanding why thieves behave the way they do does not excuse or justify their behavior. Oh and I most definitely am asserting that fear-based Christian morals are worse than useless in teaching morality and are part of the problem.

        But you may have reached different conclusions on all of my points...

        Regards,
        Ross

        • Re:This is unethical (Score:3, Interesting)

          by pauldy ( 100083 )
          Why is something like this labeled as insightful and not flame bait? Flat out saying that Christian morals are useless in teaching morality. What kind of slack jawed ignorant ass would say that anyway? There is no such thing as fear based Christianity. Those who argue there is have their own agendas or simply don't understand the religion. It teaches consequences for actions, self sacrifice, and allows for people to make their own decisions with the understanding that someone has already payed for the

          • Re:This is unethical (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Photon Ghoul ( 14932 ) on Saturday August 06, 2005 @05:07AM (#13257024)
            It's not flamebait if someone simply has a different point of view than you do. You say there is no such thing as fear-based Christianity - then explain the threat of eternal damnation for the unsaved/unbaptized/unholy masses. Sounds like a threat to me! If I don't believe as you do I spend the rest of time 'wailing and gnashing' my teeth.

            Maybe you should think about the fact that your worldview is only one of countless others out there and that there's a likely possibility that it's not THE correct one. If a person can't accept that possibility, no matter what religion or philosophy they adhere to, then that person is the one in denial.

            Oh - are ideals such as the pursuit of happiness, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, right to bear arms, due process and the like Christian ideals? If so, please point out where these are discussed in the Bible and how the scripture lines up with the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Thanks.
    • Yes, fraud usually is unethical and illegal. Thanks for noticing. You give me confidence that our society is safe in the hands of Slashdot readers.
    • a: a lot of consumer electronics stores have very limited return policies. compusa in particular charges 15% restocking on non-defective opened items. Which I can understand because the laptop renting problem was huge a few years ago. exchanges only is a bit harsh, but could work, more likely a modification to the consumer "loyalty card" idea where you have to show valid id to return something which can be tracked back to you if you screw them. even if not enforced it scares the hell out of teenagers (nothi
      • Or even more simply: We will issue your refund in the form of a company check which you will revieve in 2 - 3 weeks. It's an annoyance when you return something, but it give them time to verify the return first. A lot of places will already due this on large cash purchases...If you used a CC they should just bill the CC for the difference in price between what you claimed to have returned and what you did return.

      • Re:This is unethical (Score:5, Insightful)

        by roseblood ( 631824 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @10:55PM (#13255830)
        a: a lot of consumer electronics stores have very limited return policies. compusa in particular charges 15% restocking on non-defective opened items.

        I got frelled by this same policy at Circuit City.

        Got my brother a scanner for xmas, turns out my mom got him a digital camera, so I went to exchange the scanner for camera go-alongs (bag, batteries, flash-cards, tripod, etc.)

        When I went to return the item (unopened mind you) the guy opened the box, removed the scanner, cable, and software, inspected it for missing parts, then THREW THE BOX IN THE TRASH and only returned 85% of the price of the scanner to me on a gift card.

        He explained that there is a 15% restocking fee on anything that's been opened. I stated that it had not been opened until he had done so (he had to undo a sticker over the flap of the box and tore off a few layers of the box in the process.)

        When continued refusing to give me 100% credit then asked for a manager. He claimed he was "in charge." He didn't say he was a manager. I called his bluff, pulled out my cellphone, dialed 411, called the store, and asked for the manager. The guy promptly discovered a manager was available and summoned her.

        She asked the kid of the box had been opened. He said yes. I said the kid opened it. She said he had to open it to make sure everything was being returned. She also refused to credit my sale 100%.

        Out comes the cell phone again.

        "411, city and state please."

        "Sacramento California"

        "What listing please."

        "Attorney General's office, the department in charge of business practices." (GOD, I LOVE MY CELL PHONE AND ITS *SPEAKER PHONE* MODE.)

        Before I got past the first layer of automated push button hell the manager agreed to give me a 100% credit to a gift card.

        I folded my phone. I then told her that I no longer wished to do business with Circuit City and would like to have my credit card credited for the full refund and would buy camera-do-dads elsewhere.

        When the first words out of her mouth were "Our policy is..." I unfolded the phone and hit redial.

        She didn't finish the sentence and instead asked me for the card used to pay for the original transaction so she could credit the full price to me.

        I hate to think how many people out there innocently get screwed by these places because they aren't the obnoxious stubborn bitch that I am.

        She didn't agree to this until I

    • Where are these peoples' moral compass?

            In the same place as the morals of every employer who overworks and underpays his staff, as the banker who charges both interest and fees, as the credit card company that commits usury, of the utility companies that charge as much as they possibly can and then some...

            Oh one bad deed does not justify another, but please don't argue morality. That simply doesn't exist anymore. Greed is pandemic now.
      • Speak for yourself. Morality does exist... it's just harder to find, thanks to the "me" generation.

        Greed may be pandemic, but there are enough people who are not to not give up hope.

        Personal responsibility needs a resurrection. If that stays dead, we're doomed as a civilization. It's as simple as that. Blaming everything from the water supply to one's 3rd grade teacher has done nothing but foist a victim-ridden society that feels entitled to things and when those things don't come, being unscrupulous un

    • Re:This is unethical (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ucahg ( 898110 )
      What's most interesting and ironic is I forsee many posts in this thread that object to the scams and support the retailers who are scammed and cheated out of their hard work and reward. However these same people will pirate (pick your favorite word) Windows XP, Adobe Photoshop, and so on, with no thought of the "large corporation". Hypocrisy runs rampant, and I'll admit I'm not immune to it, but surely it is worthy of reflection.

      I mean, be honest: what is the difference? Printing receipts is bad, but do
      • Largely it's apples to oranges. Software piracy is not theft of a physical item, it's copyright infringement. The general lack of morals is the same, but at the end of the day if someone pirates XP, Microsoft doesn't have one less copy in their inventory that they can sell, whereas the jewelry store down the street will have one less Rolex.

    • All the major stores will lie to sell extended warranties. Had one guy said that i could use the warranty as a free trade up, which was a complete lie. They always hit you up right at the check out line in order to rush you and so you don't read the actual agreement. I made it a point not to shop at bestbuy unless its too purchase newly released dvds which they usually sell at a loss or if they make a price mistake.
    • Where are these peoples' moral compass?

      In their sweaty little palms, only they don't point north but rather towards Boca Raton.

    • Its funny that they go to such great lengths. Generally you just have to take something and walk right out of the store.

      A friend of mine used to work at Banana Republic, she told me that they were instructed to not challenge a person if they thought they were stealing because the company could be sued, even if they were right.

      This is a bit of a digression:
      Another friend of mine used to steal all the time, he was kinda the clepto sort that got a big thrill out of it. Kinda like Winnona Rider. He al

  • Will affect legitimate consumers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sv-Manowar ( 772313 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @05:53PM (#13253849) Homepage Journal
    These crimes have the potential to seriously affect the service provided to genuine customers through store's return policies. Many people will use retailers who are known to be return friendly when buying goods they are unsure of so as to gain from that store's returns policy and be able to return the product if it does not meet their requirements. If returns policies are widely shaken up, it could be the end for easy customer returns, and the ability to legitimately return goods that do not fit your needs.
    • I would bet on it resulting in lower sales across the board should return policies be drastically changed. Of course, there would be a lot fewer folks buying useless junk which could help increase the overall quality of goods produced. A change would suck for stupid folks who can't match their needs, perceived or actual, to a product but could benefit more savvy individuals should quality improve....
    • and the ability to legitimately return goods that do not fit your needs.

      While I see the need for retailers to offer return policies to the actual purchaser of an item, I've always had the feeling that the ability to return something that someone else gave you was a service that no retiler had any obligation to do. You didn't buy it, the retailer has no obligation to take it back from you.

      • Target gives gift receipts. They have a number on them but no prices. The Target drones can look up the receipt and see what was on it. I assume they can also see if something has been returned already.
      • About 6 months ago I purchased a treadmill from Wal Mart. About 3 months ago it without warning increased it's speed from 3 mph to who knows what as it threw off the user with some considerable force. I returned the product to the store and was asked if I wanted another one. I refused that offer and took credit on another one from another manufacture. It took them another 3 months before I noticed on the news that there was a recall of that product. How many more people will be thrown from their treadm

        • very few (Score:3, Interesting)

          by zippthorne ( 748122 )
          My guess is it took at least that long before they even noticed the problem. Figure it takes on average 3 months of use on the order of your use. Now consider that most people that buy treadmills use them for a week as a treadmill then convert them for use as a laundry drying rack.
    • Well stores want to maximize profits. Normally if a company had a fairly open return policy customers are more likely to come back and buy what they really wanted. But because the Jerks abuse this service companies will harden their return policies because they end up loosing more then they would gain from the return business.
    • If returns policies are widely shaken up, it could be the end for easy customer returns, and the ability to legitimately return goods that do not fit your needs.

      If it doesn't fit your needs, you probably should have done more research before you bought it.

      Maybe stores should charge customers a premium for the ability to return items for reasons other than defectiveness? (This is essentially what "restocking fees" are.)

      That way the costs of merchandise returns and of return fraud are borne by the people who
      • poot_rootbeer writes:

        If it doesn't fit your needs, you probably should have done more research before you bought it.

        If I'm sure a product will meet my needs after doing what research I can, I'll purchase online, either from a reputable vendor or the best deal from froogle.

        If after doing what research I can online, I'm still not 100% sure that it will work out (for example, a new camera that doesn't have online reviews, or a new subrevision of a card that previously was supported under OpenBSD, but mi

  • Same Ol Same Ol (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ResQuad ( 243184 ) * <(moc.ketelosnok) (ta) (todhsals)> on Friday August 05, 2005 @05:54PM (#13253854) Homepage
    Its intresting to read about technologies involvement in stealing, and a lite overview of how these people do it. Though in the end its the same old story with a slightly new twist. As with everything the criminals and cops(or "good guys") are playing a game of constant evolution

    I think the net of this article is that if you are Target Inc and track each recipt in a giant database - you'll be less likely to get ripped off.

    • Re:Same Ol Same Ol (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Locke2005 ( 849178 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @06:03PM (#13253928)
      if you are Target Inc and track each recipt in a giant database - you'll be less likely to get ripped off. Costco already does this... net result of which is you can buy things there and then take them back years later when the break, without a receipt. I'm just wondering how many times you can do this before they decide they no longer want you as a customer.
  • This has been going on for a long, long time. I've heard of this as long as they've been giving out gift cards for the store. Especially since Wal-Mart likes to do it for returns, and isn't too picky about if the product you're returning is actually yours or not....

  • The answer is simple, fight back with technology (Score:4, Informative)

    by jeffmeden ( 135043 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @05:54PM (#13253857) Homepage Journal
    They need better item tracking through means that can't easily be forged. Such as, embedded serial numbers of various types or simply more competent employees to work the returns counter.
    • competent employees to work the returns counter

      GASP!!! No shit? I think that is a problem more widespread than just retail...
    • You can fight with technology, but this is really a social problem. Technology can never totally solve such a thing. At some point you have to just give up and admit that a certain percentage of people are out there having fun cheating the system and there's not a damned thing you can do about it except plan ahead for it.

      I wonder which is cheaper... to invest millions in anti-theft technologies, advanced databases, embedded serial numbers, RFID, etc., or just take the tiny loss each quarter due to cheate
      • I wonder which is cheaper... to invest millions in anti-theft technologies, advanced databases, embedded serial numbers, RFID, etc., or just take the tiny loss each quarter due to cheaters and have a Walmart-style greeter hand out anti-theft flyers with attached coupons at the door or something.

        Yeppers. I heard about some folks doing a scam a couple of years back... Target ran a nationwide ad for a toy item and screwed up the pricing (normal $50, ad said $25) but decided to honor it. Some folks went out a

    • They need better item tracking through means that can't easily be forged. Such as, embedded serial numbers

      Yes, so that when you buy a gallon of lighter fluid that purchase is stored in a database. Then when you buy a bag of fertilizer, that purchase goes into a database, too. Then the FBI decides to go hunting and says, "Hey Wal-Mart! Give us a list of everybody who's bought fertalizer and lighter fluid!" and under the Patriot Act they must hand it over and are legally bound not to tell anyone that they
    • They need better item tracking through means that can't easily be forged. Such as, embedded serial numbers of various types or simply more competent employees to work the returns counter.

      I noticed ordering stuff from newegg my rescript reflects not only the model number but the serial of the product i'm buying. Very smart and helped me establish in a few cases where I bought something, or rather if I bought it from newegg or not. And I imagine could be used in a retail store situation to help prevent bogu
    • embedded serial numbers of various types

      Can this be? A Slashdotter actually ADVOCATING the adoption of RFID-like technologies?

  • I had a friend that did that. Not my friend anymor (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Meest ( 714734 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @05:57PM (#13253879)
    I had a friend that went and bought a Radeon 9800 XT when they were 450 bucks or around there. He then took it home and put his Geforce 4 MX440 back in the box and brought it back saying that "it was giving him Lines across the screen" They took it back and he got his 450 bucks back... Free upgrade for him....

    I was so disgusted with him that i just stopped all contact with him. As soon as I heard that he did this (about 3 weeks after he did it) I went and reported him to the retail store he did it to. He was under 18 so he only got a slap on the wrist and ended up paying for it.

    It just anoyed me that people do this. I run into it plenty of times in my line of work (Pro Audio) where people will buy speakers, you tell them how to set the settings, or better yet you set it up for them. Yet 2 days later they come in with Burned up Voice Coils and complaining that they were the WORST speakers they've ever bought, how they know more than me about pro audio and that it wasn't them. Yet by looking at the speaker you can tell it was overdriven.... Then go look at their equipment settings and they are not what you told them/set up for them. Yet they try and tell you they NEED a free replacement because these were obviously defective.... Sorry No dice. I don't play that game.
    • look at the reviews for the Canon Powershot S1. there are gobs of complaints about how canon will not warrenty repair the camera. as someone that deals with canon repair regularly, 100% of warrenty rejections are because of customer abuse. Water damage is the #1 attempt at a warrenty repair on canon cameras.

      a friend of mine that works at a photo shop refuses to do anything but pack up a customers camera and ship it to canon for a fee. the customer signs a paper that states that they will be charged up to
    • As soon as I heard that he did this (about 3 weeks after he did it) I went and reported him to the retail store he did it to

      You didn't try talking to him first? No offense, actually, I take that back, I mean a lot of offense, but you were a total dick of a friend. What kind of person potentially fucks up a kid's life and permanent record without at least trying to get him straightened out first? I bet you're the kind of douchebag who thinks all druggies should just be shot instead of treated.
  • anyone buying a giftcar with a "value" online is a complete and utter moron.

    come on, you are going to believe that schmuck that "says" that thay have $2500.00 worth of cards? either idiots or morons would buy them from the thief... Because the theif will empty them before sending them. and now the buyer has spent $2000.00 for a pile of worthless plastic.

  • Retailers need verification & item identity (Score:4, Interesting)

    by joelparker ( 586428 ) <joel@school.net> on Friday August 05, 2005 @06:02PM (#13253923) Homepage
    This "swapping" issue is happening because retailers aren't able to identify their own goods. They can't tell the difference between the expensive watch and the cheap watch, so crooks profit.

    This is an issue of verification and item identity.

    Possible solutions? How about identity tools such as image recognition, holographic barcodes on the item itself, RFID, etched serial numbers, etc.

    • Possible solutions? How about identity tools such as image recognition, holographic barcodes on the item itself, RFID, etched serial numbers, etc.

      Either that or maybe they should train their employees to tell the difference between Rolex and Timex. If they were to try such a scam against employees whoa ctually know their stock, then it wouldn't work. So, maybe more training and less reliance on non-human controls would be better.

      • If they were to try such a scam against employees whoa ctually know their stock, then it wouldn't work.
        Have you seen the number of products sold at the typical big-box retailer?

        I mean, I'm all for hiring the handicapped, but requiring that all return counter personnel be autistic savants seems like pushing it to me.
  • and Sumerian and Roman times.

    Fake gold, fake clothing, fake jewels.

    it's just that the market is bigger and authentication is harder and harder.
  • Nordstrom gives every single item you buy an individual barcode and they scan it and assign it to that, to you(they need your information when you make a purchase there), and to the person who sold it to you(for comission purposes and customer service purposes). I think that's a good idea. But their profit margins are high enough for that. But WalMart and Target's just aren't, but may be something they'll have to do, at least on items over a certain percentage.

  • Employees are the biggest source of retail theft (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tokengeekgrrl ( 105602 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @06:05PM (#13253950)
    According to the Nov 2002 National Retail Security Survey, almost 50% of all theft was committed by employees, not consumers.

    http://jrrobertssecurity.com/security-news/securit y-crime-news0024.htm [jrrobertssecurity.com]

    • According to the Nov 2002 National Retail Security Survey, almost 50% of all theft was committed by employees, not consumers.

      I haven't done it, but I understand it... Back in the day I worked at quite a few stores, and I can tell you that when you are a one-dollar-over-minimum-wage employee living at or under the poverty line, it gets pretty tough to be surrounded by all sorts of products you want (and occasionally need) but couldn't possibly afford.

      Not justifying it, I stayed honest... But I do understan

      • Funny thing, you've been proven correct (Score:5, Informative)

        by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @07:18PM (#13254552)
        The CEO of Costco happens ot agree with you and employees are paid very well, given a good benefits package and so on. As a side effect Costco has a much lower turnover rate and employee theft rate than your average retail chain. They don't compensate with higher prices either.

        And for all that, they still make a lot of money.

        You'll never eliminate it, of course, some people are just greedy. Every person could live in luxury and there'd still be those who stole just to have more, but you are absolutly correct that when employees are paid for shit and treated like shit, they are much more prone to theft.

      • Re:Employees are the biggest source of retail thef (Score:4, Interesting)

        by BackInIraq ( 862952 ) on Saturday August 06, 2005 @03:17AM (#13256778)
        (many places only give employees 10% off, if that... It barely negates sales tax)

        I know that one reason many big-box chains don't give larger employee discounts is that if they gave more than 10% they would actually lose money on many items. This is also the reason that Target, for instance, doesn't let you use a non-Target credit card in conjunction with your employee discount...the extra few percent they'd lose in CC fees would push many sales into losses for them.

        I would never argue that they shouldn't pay more, though...I'm with you on that. Especially because while people won't generally work harder for a better employee discount, many people WILL work harder for more pay. So if they paid more, they would see some of that money returned to them in the form of better productivity.
    • a direct result of poverty-line wages in the retail biz. OTOH CostCo pays an averageof $17/h and has the lowest employee theft and turnover rates in the industry (big surprise).

  • The death of trust (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Have Blue ( 616 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @06:06PM (#13253958) Homepage
    The internet is letting scammers really go into overdrive- every trick that's ever been thought of is out there free for the taking, so they can help each other get away with it. Every single time a legitimate person makes an assumption, there will be someone out there trying to defy that assumption for personal gain.

    The end result, of course, is going to be that everything gets verified at every stage of the process. This is just a pain in the ass for normal customers not trying to get away with anything, but it seems to be an inevitable consequence of the information economy- it's so easy to change or hide information that the retailer cannot afford to take their virtual eyes off it even for a moment; if they do, they have to assume it's tainted and end the transaction. Thanks, human nature.
  • I went to Future Shop last week to help a friend pick out a printer. After we grabbed the printer and brought it to the checkout, we noticed the barcode was missing. Turns out it was an open box return and whoever had returned it had cashed in the $50 rebate then returned the printer.

    I really can't understand how people can justify this to themselves.
    • I went to Future Shop last week to help a friend pick out a printer. After we grabbed the printer and brought it to the checkout, we noticed the barcode was missing. Turns out it was an open box return and whoever had returned it had cashed in the $50 rebate then returned the printer

      I really can't understand how people can justify this to themselves.

      In America "Future Shop" was known for putting customer returns back on the shelves, even ones that were returned as being faulty. I shopped there from time to

  • I wonder... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by DickeyWayne ( 581479 )
    ...how many inkjet cartridges returned to the factory from department stores are just "empty" instead of "defective."

    (Self-disclosure: I only did it once, as a "proof-of-concept" test!)

  • There's one thing I often do (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @06:10PM (#13253989)
    Say I buy something (the last item I "returned" that way was a router): it works for a while, then quit working. When it happens before the usual 15 days return-without-questions-asked period, I usually go get another of the same item, swap with the bad one and return it the same day.

    Why do I do that? you might think I'm a crook or something. Well, I'm tired of being shafted with some store's "10% restocking fee" (which is utter bullshit), or the incredibly ingenious ways of selling me stuff that never works right in the first place, then refusing to admit it's shit, or waiting for-bloody-ever for the thing to be fixed under warranty.

    Some stores shaft me, I shaft them back. It's only fair. I don't do that with all stores, but CompUSA, Fry's and others, I have no qualms. Screw them.
  • I hope it's not a cop out for companies to abuse their legitimate customers. Their are plenty of times when retail companies have been known to scam the regular customer through false adveriting or pricing schemes and we don't really have many ways to fight back other than a report to the Better Business Bureau.

    Then again... Maybe I'm just bitter about what Sprint did to my phone bill one time and refused to credit anything back.
  • Embed the receipt in a chip inside the product. Check that receipt on returns. Printed receipts become info only. Crooks might try to alter the data stored on that chip, but that could be curtailed if the chip was programmed to be written to only once and to wipe data if a second attempt took place.
  • I fully believe that what these people are doing is stealing. Personally, I think that people ought just to buy a whole lot less stuff, but even so, it makes it worse for all of us when this stuff happens.

    Now, will people say the same about copying cd's of music? I won't. I know, it's a contradiction, but I just don't buy music anymore unless I'm buying it alog with others who will make copies can keep them. Example: I copied Ben Folds' album. I would give him five bucks for it (I figure that's a fair pric
    • While the case of buying a CD copying all the data and returning it, is stealing because there is an expense to someone else. Because when you buy the CD and Return it you are first taking the expense of the store the catalog, display, and handle the CD, then after you return it they will need to repackage it, put security tags back in, reenter it in innovatory. And resell it at discounted price, because it is considered pre used. If you bought a CD and ripped it and distributed it on the internet then y
    • Now, will people say the same about copying cd's of music?

      You want the EU Proposing to Make P2P Piracy A Criminal Offense article, a few headings down.

            This thread is about stealing actual products from retail stores. I know people confuse this with piracy all the time, but please don't troll. You are obvioulsy wayyyy off topic.
  • The retailers have average products, and are having financial troubble - so they are trying to blame the customer. All the other stuff is just excuses.

    Sure theres a con or two, but it seems to me that everytime a retailer starts to get "tough" on the customer, it's usually not long before they go out of business.

    The whole economy is in a really crappy situation right now, and the mid-term outlook is the worst in over 200 years, so I wouldn't be supprised at all to see a lot of retailers go out of business
  • Many years ago when I was in school I knew a guy that purchased a portable video game system before he went on vacation with his family (a Lynx, I believe,) and then took it back to the store for a refund when he got back.

    It shouldn't be that surprising that today he's got the biggest stack of pirated video games of anyone I know.

    He's the sort of guy that cares deeply about the video game industry, just not enough to give them his money.

  • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • As TFA states, it's easy to prevent much of the problem by tracking receipts. Large retailers like Nordstrom, Macy's, Home Depot, Lowe's, and Target all put code numbers on their receipts to prevent an item from being returned multiple times. I'm not sure how you prevent someone from substituting similar but inferior products on returns.

  • The "Best Buy Trick" (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 05, 2005 @06:34PM (#13254176)
    Below chronicles the adventures of an employee I used to work with at a company I wish not to name. The company made Video Game products. We'll call the employee BT.

    BT was employed in the department of the company that would test our products with various PC games. PC game manufacturers would send free games to test to make sure they worked with our brand of controllers, gamepads, etc. BT was basically the one and only guy to handle receiving these games. Most of the time we didn't care if they worked or not, we'd just get tons of games for free, and they started to accumulate behind BT.

    One day he got the idea to take these shrinkwrapped games back to the local Best Buy for store credit. He would then take the store credit and buy stuff he wanted, or stuff to sell on eBay. Best Buy's return policy said if you didn't have a receipt, all you needed was your ID to return the product for store credit. BT started going to Best Buy daily returning 1, or 2 games at a time. He'd travel to various Best Buys within the area.

    It was working so well, BT ran out of games to take back. You'd think he would have stopped, but I guess greed is just a too powerful force. BT started taking items from the Demo warehouse (a little local warehouse that had 10-20 items of each of the products we manufactured, controllers, memory cards for consoles, basically video game accessories). The policy at the company was it was okay to go back and take 1 or 2 things once in a while, even to take home to keep for personal use.

    However BT started taking 3, 4, 5 things at a time, and took them to Best Buy to return as well. Eventually Best Buy caught on, and he had to get his wife, and close friends to go return things for him for a cut of the store credit.

    When BT finally left the company, he had accumulated over 5,000 dollars worth of Best Buy store credit. He walked in, bought a laptop and a desktop computer and ended his career.

    After that, half the staff of the company started doing the "Best Buy Trick", just on a much smaller scale..
  • still pay employees minimum wage to work the returns counter. A higher quality employee will notice that someone is trying to foist off an ISA soundcard as a top of the line video card, even if the scammers paperwork is flawless.

    I actually did see a USED CD-R shrink-wrapped, and placed on the returned items cart for sale, at Microcenter once.

    it's a sliding scale, the retailer can hire higher quality employees and provide more training, and stop more fraud, but pay more in salaries...they've put more effort
  • My father works for Sprint, and before that he worked for Radioshack. The most common problem they encountered was attempted consumer fraud. The correct policies were in place and the employees were trained enough not to let customers get away with any funny business. This sometimes illicited violent outbursts from the moron trying to rip off the store, but they never won.

    Also, they track their sales well enough that if the warranty is determined void or the product return/refund is refused, ALL stores

  • refund (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tomfrh ( 719891 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @06:47PM (#13254294)
    A gift card or a store credit is hardly a refund...

  • All I hear is "waah!"... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by loraksus ( 171574 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @07:19PM (#13254558) Homepage
    Compared to what some of the poor, victimized by evil customers (thank you best buy) retail stores do, the "rampant rise of fraud" pales.

    Let's take a look at what some / virtually all of the stores do.

    1. Blatantly and regularly violating in false advertising and bait and switch laws by claiming "oh, it was a price mistake that we don't have to honor that price."
    Virtually every online store engages in such practices, although B&M stores are doing this more and more as well.

    1a. Not applying sale prices at the cashier or overcharging the customer
    2. Using rebate houses that don't honor / lose / just flat out destroy rebates. (CompUSA, TigerDirect, and pretty much everyone else)

    3. Using rebate houses that don't pay on time. I've filed over $10,000 in rebates and I can count on one hand the number of rebates that came on time. It should not take 8 weeks for someone to cut you a check. Again, everyone who offers rebates engages in such behavior.

    4. Selling extended warranties that are for the most part entirely useless. (My friend's laptop sitting on a kitchen counter started melting - proc overheated, motherboard got scorched and even some of the keys, and the chasis melted, Circuit City refused to honor the extended warranty because they claimed it was "Abuse")

    4a. Claiming something is a "warranty", when in fact it is not. Read the fine print on some of these "warranties", have a laugh / cry.

    4b. Training their salespeople to lie about the benefits of the "warranty". If some AG wants to file a suit, I know that Staples stores have a couple training CD-Roms lying around that clearly contradict the policies in the extended "warranties"

    5. Getting around pricematch policies by ordering slightly different (yet identical in all features) models from the manufacturer. i.e. a HP PSC 950 and HP PSC 950xi. Perhaps not illegal, but a shady, shady practice that lets retail stores ignore their price match policies for many items.

    6. (This is really devoted to my favorite, favorite store, Fry'ed Electronics). Labelling missing items as "containing all parts", even though many parts are missing. Then accusing the person trying to return a half empty box of theft.
    Or throwing returns back onto the shelf without any indication that the product was returned or is missing parts. I'm sure this violates a whole bunch of laws, but hey...

    7. Frys also gets the award for selling accessories that clearly won't work with the product that the customer has. i.e. the sales associates pushing SATA drives onto people who have only IDE controllers, Pentium processors for AMD motherboards, etc, etc.

    Of course, every so often, the poor, helpless retail stores get caught and get - at most, a light slap on the wrist.

    If you engage in clearly unethical business practices on all levels - from the very top to your store managers and even in the training materials that you give to your associates, you have as much right to complain as someone who paid a drug dealer with fake money and realized that they were sold orageno.

    The fraud perpetrated onto the customer by these retail stores far exceeds any losses. Moreover, shady behaviour is encouraged by management and continues, even in the face of the occasional "Martha Stewart" FTC / BBB / "local / regional government agency that handles this sort of stuff" investigation. /I think I hear the theme from "Schindlers List" being played, but it is really, really quiet.
    • Excellent post.

      The media is complicit in all of this (the same with the reporting on how much music money is "lost" to piracy) - They want us to feel bad for giant corporations that are making money hand over fist while the consumer is shit on.

      At the same time, very little is done to expose these and other lousy business practices.
    • Don't like a place's actions? Don't buy there. You don't have the right to commit fraud.

      Now, as to your actual points:

      1. No reputable B&M store does this. They do make mistakes. They are legitimate mistakes.
      2, 3. Rebates are offered by the manufacturer, not the store. Take it up with them.
      4. Yeah, I'm sure you're right. I don't buy them.
      5. That's part and parcel of pricematch policies. Places want to offer them, but they don't really want to get into price wars. Deal with it. If they didn't have these o

  • Not checking returns. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by spisska ( 796395 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @07:32PM (#13254675)
    On a few occasions recently I've had to return computer gear to a well known retailer. On each of these, there was nothing tehnically wrong with the product in question, just that it either didn't run in Linux or wasn't the piece I was looking for.

    Specifically, there was an 802.11 card that was the same model but different version (therefore different chipset -- Broadcom instead of Prism) than indicated on the box, a sound card that just wouldn't work (my fault for not researching), and a graphics card that had a fan even though the picture on the box showed a heatsink.

    Anyway, all three times, they accepted my explanation and let me exchange for what I wanted, but they never actualy opened the boxes and looked at what I had returned, at least not while I was there.

    On top of that, I paid cash each time, and declined to give them my name and address.

    The third time, when I was returning the video card, I was actually tempted to swap it for an older card -- I was pretty sure they wouldn't look, and they had no way to trace me.

    Of course the temptation only lasted a few seconds; I am not a thief, and the deed I was considering is really, really slimy. All the same, it doesn't surprise me at all that other people do this.

    My wife works in retail, and has truely wonderful stories about customer returns. One of my favorites is the one about someone who returned a chiped coffee cup that the shop hadn't had in stock for at least 10 years, but it had the store's name written on the bottom. And they granted the refund.

  • As a cashier... (Score:4, Informative)

    by flatface ( 611167 ) on Friday August 05, 2005 @07:37PM (#13254728)
    I'm a cashier at Staples, working behind the customer service desk at this moment. Not very busy right now, not much to do. May as well respond to this discussion.

    I know that it is stupidly difficult to commit retail fraud at Staples. Trust me. Why? Our all-encompassing POS system. Transaction histories, the ability to dig out a past receipt (no more "I lost it, but here's the item"), and linked transaction numbers. That, combined with checking the returned products (no computers filled with potatoes) and so on, make it that much more difficult for lowlife thieves.

    In the 6 months I have worked here, the only crime I have heard about was all physical. Taking the box and running, taking a product out of the box and sneaking it out, etc. Pretty much all of the crimes committed in our stores are posted around the district. There are not too many of these, thankfully.

    The article also talks about returning products being counted as fraud. I have not seen any evidence of it here. Of course, we don't sell fancy clothes you just want to wear once or whatever, but we flaunt our "bring it back in 30 days for any reason" policy and it doesn't even matter if they are just trying it out. If it's in saleable condition, sell it. Otherwise, return it to the manufacturer as defective. I don't see any problem. It might be a problem with the smaller retailers, but most of them also don't have return policies like we do.

    Time to go, a customer is approaching the service desk.

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