Making Fire From Water 584
LexNaturalis writes "Gizmodo has a story out about a new product that makes fire from water. Gizmodo explains how it works: 'Ordinary tap water (preferably distilled) is supplied to the fireplace through a pipe or tank, a 220 volt electrical service then separates the hydrogen and oxygen atoms through electrolysis, the Aqueon ignites the hydrogen, and ta-dah, fire! The oxygen is then added for color and brightness, while the rest is released into the room. It doesn't require venting because it doesn't produce any harmful emittents like carbon monoxide -- just water vapor.' The manufacturer's website has more information on the science behind this new product. While splitting water to get hydrogen and oxygen is not new, this product will likely make the technology more accessible to the masses and might hopefully show that hydrogen is a more attractive fuel than petroleum-based fuels."
Before you get too excitied (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I thought hydrogen flames were invisible? (Score:2, Informative)
Check the 220V circuit rating (Score:5, Informative)
This should inspire some confidence... (Score:2, Informative)
"The safety and welfare of our customers is of the utmost importance to us," said Brad Determan, president of Hearth & Home Technologies. "We are asking customers who own one of these products to turn off the gas flow to the fireplace and stop using it until we can send someone to their home and correct the problem at no expense to them."
Determan explained that company representatives are notifying customers as quickly as possible, either directly and/or through dealers and distributors who sold the fireplaces. Heat & Glo gas fireplace owners can determine if they own a GEM 36 or GEM 42 by checking the rating plate in the bottom of the unit located on the base pan in front of the gas control or by calling Heat & Glo Customer Care at 1-800-215-5152, between the hours of 8AM to 5PM CST. If an owner has not yet been contacted, they can call Heat & Glo Customer Care at the number above or go to www.gem3642.com for more information. This safety alert also includes Gem 36 fireplace owners that recently received a replacement burner assembly.
"We very much regret the concern and inconvenience this may cause our customers, dealers and distributors and will do all we can to make this repair process as easy as possible for them," said Determan.
Hearth & Home Technologies is a leading provider of hearth products for the home.
Small fragments of glass in your face, anyone?
Re:Fire from water? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Hydrogen from water (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I thought hydrogen flames were invisible? (Score:2, Informative)
Hydrogen flames are very definitely visible. Depending on the ratio of fuel to oxidant (ie oxygen) the colour of the flame can range from a very faint blue to an intense orange.
I do a chemistry demonstration where I explode a balloon with either pure hydrogen or a stoichometric ratio of hydrogen and oxygen. The first explosion is just a puff of orange flame, the second is a bright flash of light and a tremendous explosion which has been known to shatter fluoro tubes at 10 metres.
Charles
I wonder how they are making the water conductive? (Score:2, Informative)
Uses 4,000 Watts? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Check the 220V circuit rating (Score:2, Informative)
Less efficient than a heat pump, perhaps, but that's another story.
Re:Nothing to see here (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Nothing to see here (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I thought hydrogen flames were invisible? (Score:3, Informative)
Whether or not a molecule emits energy in the form of light has nothing to do with the number of atoms. It has to do with the energy levels of the electrons in the outer shell.
As the electrons fall back from their excited state they emit a photon of light at a particular wavelenght, related to the energy drop. If you have a small drop then the wavelength will be large, ie red or infra-red light. If you have a large drop then the wavelength will be smaller, ie green, blue, violet.
Don't forget that when hydrogen reacts it produces water was well 2H2 + O2 -> 2H2O, so you'll have your triatomic molecule you want.
The reason that corn brooms are used to detect flames is that the flame from a slow hydrogen leak is not very intense, made up almost exclusively with blue and violet photons. These are hard to see.
Have a look at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hyde.ht ml [gsu.edu]
to see the spectra of hydrogen. It's got some visible lines in it.
Here's a picture of a hydrogen flame, faint but visible. http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/STIL LS/CLH/CLH/64JPG48/2.JPG [wisc.edu]
Charles
Re:TFA wrong! (Score:3, Informative)
Some of it is. Water, all on its own, does the following:
H20 (-----------) H+ + OH-
This is the reason why pure water has a pH of 7. This means that 10^7 hydrogen ions exist in one litre of the purest water. It can't be helped, it's a natural property of water.
The dissociated part, since it has a charge, is a really god conductor of electricity. This is the part that turns to gas when you electrolyse. And as this happens, the principle of equilibrium assures that new ions are formed.
Re:Conversion wastes energy (Score:1, Informative)
All heaters of a given wattage will dump the same amount of heat per unit time into a closed room- that's more or less the definition of watt. This device, if it takes 1000 watts of energy, is as efficient as any other 1000 watt heater.
The only thing that "matters," so to speak, in comparing heaters is where the heat is dumped- if it's all dumped in one directed stream, it might warm the user up faster, and cause them to turn it off faster. But if you're heating an entire room, there's no difference.
Re:Let me clarify a little bit here.. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Net Energy Cost? (Score:3, Informative)
Heat. Only it's heat where it isn't that useful to you... like as latent heat in the humidity you're generating and higher wavelengths (visible/near visible light).
Yes, making heat can be 100% efficient, but it isn't always that way depending on how you want to use the heat. In this case, an electric IR heater would probably do a better job heating the space and a flourecent/LED lamp would do a MUCH better job creating light if those are your goals.
=Smidge=
Re:Conversion wastes energy (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Hydrogen from water (Score:3, Informative)
Since when are the efficiencies of hydrogen fuel cells only 57%? 1980? New cells (which are what would be used, of course) are ~70% efficient (and should be able to get up to 85% if you utilize waste heat).
Since when do gasoline IC engines lose 85% of the energy (15%) efficiency? 1950? Modern gasoline engines are 25-30% efficient (and diesel are 30-40%)
In short, please explain your numbers.
Re:But waste energy is heat (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know many places that need 13 kW of heating that don't already have it.
Wrong, wrong, wrong! (Score:2, Informative)
Oxygen added for color?? You must burn oxygen and hydrogen in the same ratio as they are in a water molecule: H2O
Wich "rest" is relased in the room?
Re:Hydrogen from water (Score:2, Informative)