China Going Up and Coming Down 400
SoCalChris writes "The BBC writes that China has just completed the world's highest railroad, climbing to 16,640 feet (5,072 meters) above sea level. The cars will be sealed to help passengers cope with the pressure changes from the altitude. The line is expected to begin carrying passengers next year." This news comes at the same time that their Chinese taikonauts return from their spaceflight after just 115 hours in orbit.
simulation pictures (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not a transportation engineer... (Score:3, Informative)
Chinese "American" Idol (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-05/
"The name may not roll off the tongue quite like American Idol does, but that hasn't kept the Mongolian Cow Sour Yogurt Super Girl contest from sweeping China. Zhao Jingyi, 17, the "schoolgirl" candidate won the Changsha competition.
Like Idol, which named its winner Wednesday night, China's Super Girl gives aspiring singing stars a shot at televised fame and fortune."
Looks like American culture has spread far and wide...
Re:I'm not a transportation engineer... (Score:5, Informative)
Meanwhile, rail forms the backbone of most developed nations, including France [wikipedia.org], Germany [wikipedia.org], and Japan [wikipedia.org]. In case you weren't paying attention, a train also now links England and France [wikipedia.org] via the Channel Tunnel [wikipedia.org]. Bluntly put, America is the exception, not the rule.
Re:Real shame... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Real shame... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:I'm not a transportation engineer... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Good stuff (Score:2, Informative)
It'd be great to see real freedom being given there, but the Communist party has come a long way.
Re:Must be light-weight trains (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I'm not a transportation engineer... (Score:3, Informative)
Up here, I can make a round trip Ottawa-Kingston via train for $45. The same by car would run $40-50 at current gas prices. Not to mention, saving 400km in wear and tear on the car, which would be another $100-$120 or so in hidden costs.
Re:Har har. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I'm not a transportation engineer... (Score:2, Informative)
A trip from San Jose, CA to Atlanta, GA on Amtrak costs $344 and takes about 4.2 days.
The same trip on Delta costs between $260-$326 and takes 4-7 hours.
Cost is a little bit more for the train, both types of travel have accidents...
This was leaving December 19th.
Re:I'm not a transportation engineer... (Score:3, Informative)
This is way off-topic, but a little backgroung on the realative merits of different modes of transportation.
In the US and the UK deaths per passenger mile are approximately 1 order of magnitude lower on trains than by trucks/buses.
Trains cost 1 order of magnitude less to operate than an autos. There are numerous reasons why Amtrak is not viable in the US that don't necessarily apply to this case. Amtrak has to compete with the autos whose owners benefit from free roads. In areas with user fess for the roads, trains and other modes of public transportation are viable enterprises. Also, the rail and public transit network is not extensive enough to allow people to opt out of buying a vehicle. In Western Europe, it is possible in most places to have a high standard of living and not own a car. With the exception of NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC, and a few other cities in the US, a car is practically a necessity in the States.
Furthermore, in the case of China which is desperate to secure its necessary energy needs, fuel efficiency is important. Planes get roughly 40 miles per passenger gallon, trains get roughly 80, and cars vary from 15-120 based on the vehicle and number of passengers. So unless everyone travels 4 deep into a Honda CRX, trains aren't so bad when it comes to efficiency.
Re:I'm not a transportation engineer... (Score:2, Informative)
My guess is that passenger rail is no more profitable in most other countries, but government subsidies make up the difference. Here in the US, the people don't seem to like the idea of government subsidies for passenger rail for some reason; they only want subsidies for roads and airports. Thus, those modes of transport can make a profit with relatively cheap fares. In the mean time, the rail service languishes with such low volume due to stingy government subsidies (relative to other transportation modes) that it lacks economies of scale, and the ticket price stays high.
Re:I'm not a transportation engineer... (Score:2, Informative)
Now as for China, they're probably going to use this rail line for shipping out mineral ores and other raw materials. I doubt that the native people will see any benefit from this rail line.
5000 Meters isn't that high (Score:3, Informative)
The article makes it sound like oxygen/pressurized cabin is neccessary at this altitude. It isn't. We spent our final night higher than this altitude and I never even had a headache. I assume the reason why the workers received oxygen was to assist with the heavy labor they had to do.
The pressurized cabin on the train is merely a matter of comfort for most people, although that altitude is high enough to cause problems for some people susceptible to Acute Mountain Sickness or AMS. Since the purpose of the railroad is to reach those high altitudes, I'd assume most people are somewhat accustomed to it.
Here is a picture [isomerica.net] from the crater rim of Kilimanjaro's larger peak Kibo at sunrise. The smaller peak you see is Mawenzi, and the view is towards Kenya. I would love to visit Tibet some day.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I'm not a transportation engineer... (Score:1, Informative)
Meanwhile, a car that takes $40-50 in gas for that trip has a hole in the gas tank. I do the trip in a mid-size car on 18L, or $18.
Only when we look at total operating cost does VIA start to look good. Using 40cents/km (easily attainable by non-idiots), the 330km round-trip costs $132. That isn't a lot more than $95, and if you already own the vehicle, the incremental or cash cost is considerably less. Then there's the convenience - even when VIA is running on time it's slower than the car.
Of course, instead of driving your own car, if it's a same-day return trip, renting a car is the cheapest way to go, as little as $50 all-in.
I like VIA, really I do, but if you already own a car, it rarely makes sense. And the $450M subsidy last year we paid VIA through our taxes is ridiculous.
Fuel (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Safety? (Score:3, Informative)
The lake was the highest point of our journey, at (IIRC) 5,100 metres (the same height as Everest base camp, higher than any part of the railway). We had no trouble breathing at rest, but pounding headaches were our reward for any kind of exercise (jogging up a hill to get a good photo etc). The Chinese are more susceptable to altitude sickness (our Chinese friend who travelled the silk-road part of our China trip with us refused to come to Tibet for that reason), which may explain the worker's need for oxygen (especially as they were probably doing a LOT of heavy lifting and labouring).
I don't think getting stuck at that altitude at rest for a day without cabin pressure would cause anyone any serious problems.
The main problem would be in rescuing passengers and clearing the line after a crash. 30 minutes outside Lhasa on our drive to the lake we came to a long traffic jam (very unusual in Tibet!). Two trucks had collided on the narrow road, both drivers dead, what was left of their vehicles strewn across the road. We were able to get around the mess by some insane 4x4 driving (thank God we paid for the upgrade from minibus!). When we returned nine hours later (after our visit to the lake) the jam was still there, just about being cleared with help from one of the railway cranes and about 50 military trucks that had mysteriously appeared from nowhere. This was just 30 minutes outside of Lhasa, what if a train crashed on one of the more remote parts of the line?
But yes, the real REAL issue is the affect this will have on Tibetan people and wildlife. The railway line runs within metres of many villages, and will make them completely uninhabitable. And it runs the full length of many valleys, how will this impact the migration of grazing animals? (Much of the line is on raised embankment, and so entirely separates one side of a valley from another.) Tibet is a beautiful country with a wonderfully diverse range of people and cultures. But already Chinese-led tourism is ruining the most famous areas, and the increased number of visitors from the railway will only exacerbate the problem.
Re:They beat him until he was lifeless (Score:3, Informative)
Seeing and believing in China [guardian.co.uk]
Re:Rising temperature? (Score:3, Informative)
Metal expands when heated. Here's what can happen: http://www.charmec.chalmers.se/railtech/suncurves. html [chalmers.se]
Impressive, but... (Score:2, Informative)
The fact is, not many places have much use for a railroad that high. Both the current and the former holders of the record would pass over the highest point in Europe or the lower 48 states.
Native Tibetans have been dreading this ... (Score:3, Informative)