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Graphics Software Hardware

ATI X1800 CrossFire Cards Reviewed 126

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the breaking-the-cost-to-effectiveness-ratio dept.
AnInkle writes "ATI finally joins the Christmas party. If money is (virtually) no object and high-end 3D animation is part of your game, you'll want to check out The Tech Report's review of the ATI X1800 CrossFire card before spending your green on the green team. From the review: 'This new CrossFire card also sweeps away some of the limitations of the first-generation CrossFire hardware introduced just a couple of months ago, allowing mega-high-res gaming.' Further, if the latest rumors about the 7800GTX 512MB are true, it would mean that this CrossFire graphics subsystem would arguably stand alone at the top of the graphics benchmarking mountain."
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ATI X1800 CrossFire Cards Reviewed More

ATI X1800 CrossFire Cards Reviewed

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  • Hack... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Chris Bradshaw ( 933608 ) on Monday December 12, 2005 @03:50PM (#14240814)
    Here is some info for those who have this card and want a little more out of it...

    http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=3668 [hexus.net]

  • classic slashdot article... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 12, 2005 @03:51PM (#14240824)
    14 pages of clicking through ads... lol

    Conclusions
    A Radeon X1800 XT CrossFire rig is mighty fast. Also, it's six degrees Fahrenheit outside right now at my place, and I've enjoyed the room-warming benefits of CrossFire and SLI systems throughout the preparation of this review. My mind boggles, though, when I try to consider the value proposition of plunking down $1200 for a pair of graphics cards and roughly $200 more for the motherboard. Could a pair of Radeon X1800 XT cards in CrossFire be a better deal than two GeForce 7800 GTX 512s in SLI?
    Yeah, I suppose so, especially with GTX 512 prices currently in low-altitude orbit. I do have my reservations about CrossFire, including the hassle of dealing with external dongles and the iffy I/O performance of CrossFire motherboards that use ATI's SB450 south bridge. Still, CrossFire performance generally scales well enough from one card to two, and I said in my initial CrossFire review that the long-term success of this solution would hinge on the quality of ATI's new GPUs. Turns out that the Radeon X1800 XT is a very desirable graphics card that matches the GeForce 7800 GTX feature for feature and adds a few new wrinkles of its own, including finer threading granularity for Shader Model 3.0 and the ability to do antialiasing with high-dynamic-range rendering. The Radeon X1800 XT trails the GeForce 7800 GTX 512 in overall performance, but Radeon X1800 CrossFire may hit the streets at prices as much as $150 lower per card than the 7800 GTX 512. (Radeon X1800 XTs are already widely available at $599 or less.) In the rarefied air of big-money graphics subsystems, that potential $300 price difference--if indeed it develops--could make a Radeon X1800 XT CrossFire system a, uh, er, uhm, solid value.

    Yeah, I said it.

    It's bitchin' fast, at any rate.

    Don't go buying a Radeon X1800 XL card, however, expecting to add a Radeon X1800 CrossFire card later if you care at all about value. Dropping a $599 CrossFire card into your system and lopping off half of its RAM and much of its performance potential isn't the brightest of moves. That solution sacrificies too much, in my view. You can get a dual-graphics solution involving a Radeon X1800 XL, but it's far from optimal. Perhaps in the future, if prices drop dramatically on the Radeon X1800 CrossFire Edition cards, teaming one up with an XL could make some sense. That seems like a shaky prospect to me, though.

    • The Radeon X1800 XT trails the GeForce 7800 GTX 512 in overall performance, but Radeon X1800 CrossFire may hit the streets at prices as much as $150 lower per card than the 7800 GTX 512. (Radeon X1800 XTs are already widely available at $599 or less.) In the rarefied air of big-money graphics subsystems, that potential $300 price difference--if indeed it develops--could make a Radeon X1800 XT CrossFire system a, uh, er, uhm, solid value.

      It *could* indeed. The difference is that the GF7800GTX512 is availab

      • "The difference is that the GF7800GTX512 is available and sold right now, even if very expensive and hard to find (a proof of its success and popularity)..."

        Wait...my local BestBuy is out of the Xbox 360! Could that mean that it's successful and popular???

        Ok, so I'm just kidding. Just be careful that marketing hype and sales-control isn't clouding your decision making. :)

  • I'm confused (Score:2, Informative)

    by ToasterofDOOM ( 878240 )
    How would an improved Nvidia 7800 leave ATI at the top??? Unless I'm mistaken (and I'm not) more RAM is better for a GPU, making the 7800 with 512MB insane. The only way this works out is if the GTX is the lower end 7800, but even then it's impressive to have 512.
    • The rumor is that Nvidia is dropping the 7800GTX 512MB configuration.
    • How would an improved Nvidia 7800 leave ATI at the top??? Unless I'm mistaken (and I'm not) more RAM is better for a GPU, making the 7800 with 512MB insane. The only way this works out is if the GTX is the lower end 7800, but even then it's impressive to have 512.

      AFAIK RAM was not was better for a GPU, but only for textures for example you will see a upgrade in performance. In doom3 the better GPU only got you so far but for example on the highest setting modes it needed the 512 MB room to load all the t
    • Um not to put too fine a point on it but I think the point was made that Nvidia *might* stop making the 7800 in which case it would be all alone at the top of the heap. In this situation which was described had you read the article was the point being made not at the moment, but perhaps shortly, as long as nvidia don't come up with something better in the mean time.

      just a thought, might have been a better idea to read closely.

  • I don't think it stands alone ... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by eldavojohn ( 898314 ) * <eldavojohn@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Monday December 12, 2005 @03:52PM (#14240845) Journal
    Further, if the latest rumors about the 7800GTX 512MB are true, it would mean that this CrossFire graphics subsystem would arguably stand alone at the top of the graphics benchmarking mountain.
    "Stand alone"? That's odd, when I read the article, I noticed this:

    ATI's recent driver optimizations for OpenGL are enough to vault the single Radeon X1800 XT ahead of the GeForce 7800 GTX 256MB, but the Radeon X1800 XT in CrossFire can't quite sustain that lead. The Radeon X1800 XL-based CrossFire rig can't catch the dual GeForce 7800 GTs, either. Still, the Radeon X1800 XT CrossFire system cranks out over 85 frames per second at 2048x1536. Like I said, it's a monster. Unfortunately for ATI, the GeForce 7800 GTX 512 is practically otherworldly.
    Notice how the author acknowledges that "the GeForce 7800 GTX 512 is practically otherworldly." Doesn't really sound like there's any argument to be had.
    • 1) That quote was for Doom 3 and Doom 3 alone.

      2) The rumors, which would make "this CrossFire graphics subsystem would arguably stand alone at the top of the graphics benchmarking mountain" a true statement are the rumors that the 7800GTX 512 is going to be out of production shortly. As it is now, they're almost impossible to find already.
      • Ok, I see what the original headline author meant but just because a card is discontinued doesn't mean it's out of the picture.

        You know the iPod mini was discontinued but I know people who still use those.

        I realized that quote was for Doom 3. What I was trying to say is that using "stand alone" to describe a card is dangerous. Different games, different settings, yeah, you're right. But having to say "well, it's the greatest for this game at this setting" doesn't mean it has no competition.

        It's an a
      • As it is now, they're almost impossible to find already.
        This is very true. However, it seems to be because the demand is so high [theinquirer.net]. Why would they halt production with a demand like that unless they're preparing another card with equal stats or possibly easier to manufacture?
        • Right, just a shorter shelf life than usual. Doubtless they've developed a card with a better price/performance ratio, and the people who just bought the "top of the line," will be pissed that they shelled out all that cash. Fortunately, 20 years ago today, a sucker was born to replace the now disillusioned (and broke) early adopter.
    • That's odd, when I clicked the "latest rumors" link, I noticed this:
      CoolTechZone.com has the latest information from NVIDIA regarding the company's plans to discontinue its top of the line graphics card, the 7800GTX 512MB.
      Notice how the author acknowledges that "[NVIDIA] plans to discontinue its top of the line graphics card, the 7800GTX 512MB."

      So, yeah. That's what he meant by "stand alone." The other team forfeited.
    • You have to read the linked rumors, which explain that the 7800 GTX 512 may be no longer for sale as of real soon now. If those cards aren't available, then the x1800xt appears a lot more favorably.

      What the rumors leave out of course is that the 7800 gtx 512 will be replaced by something better.

    • ATI's recent driver optimizations for OpenGL are enough to vault the single Radeon X1800 XT ahead of the GeForce 7800 GTX 256MB, but the Radeon X1800 XT in CrossFire can't quite sustain that lead.

      If there is one area that ATI really sucks in is their OpenGL drivers.

      In my experience, OpenGL applications run several times faster on nVidia hardware than on equivalent ATI hardware. I refuse to buy ATI anymore as I've got screwed over too many times with their shitty OpenGL drivers.

  • Too expensive! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gasmonso ( 929871 ) on Monday December 12, 2005 @03:54PM (#14240861) Homepage

    At a cost of $1200, you're better off getting an XBox 360, a PS3, and the new Nintendo. You'll probably have a couple bucks left over for lunch. Just way too uch money for the average Joe. But I bet some uber Slashdot users already have them :)

    gasmonso http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]

    • Re:Too expensive! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Daveznet ( 789744 ) on Monday December 12, 2005 @04:03PM (#14240927)
      My friend that works at ATI was able to view this card in action at the labs and the demos were amazing but he told me ATI continues to lack in the driver department. He informed me that there is about 1 floor working on drivers which is about 60 people and they have not been up to par with the hardware that they seem to be producing. Hes gotten his hands on a couple of their video cards for testing and many of them have crashed his computer forcing him to format/reinstall his operating system. IMHO, I think that ATI should really look into improving their driver support.
      • from my expirence, I would agree. Even way back in the day (1999), their drivers have been awful, imho. Dont remind me of that awful ATI All in Wonder Pro card I was forced to use.

      • Wow, 60 people on drivers and they still have poor Linux support! Sounds like poor leadership to me. Don't get me wrong, I proudly own a Radeon 9800, but I'm afraid to upgrade drivers because I've been burned in the past.

        http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]

        • Considering the costs and benefits of Linux support, I can't imagine they have that many working on it. That said, their Linux support has gotten a lot better more recently. The major problem is you can't expect the latest kernel to work with their drivers, which I can deal with.

      • The problem may be that all 60 driver developers are sub par.. but having worked at a contract house that created custom drivers for ATI chips, I can safely say that with the hardware register references that were given to us by ATI, I was amazed to even get the video card to switch resolutions properly. The engineers doing the hardware over at ATI might be awesome, but they can't document worth shit!
        • Oh I completely agree with you there, there are alot of communication issues between the engineers and developers from what my friend tells me. Which could be the root problem of their sub par drivers. Documentation though Im pretty sure most developers hate to do is key to a good development process.
    • At a cost of $1200...

      Don't get me wrong - high end graphics are really a phenominal achievment, damn sexy, and just wicked cool. But does anyone else expect that ten years from now, our entire computers will be PCI Super Express cards that sit inside of NVidia's latest dual GPU graphics processing boxes?

      • At $1200, with its own motherboard and requiring 4 PCI bays, it certainly seems to be for purpose-built systems. But is ATI targeting Nintendo or SGI?

        Such high resolution seems more important for CAD than Quake. But the benchmarks are all about games. What is ATI's intended market?

        • What is ATI's intended market?

          Rich kids who care more about bragging about their benchmark scores than playing games...

          Which, incidentally, is a market that is just the right size to extract the maximum amount of profit out of while the yields still suck on their latest chips.

          The high end market is a place for these manufacturers to test and refine their manufacturing process before selling to the mass market.
    • At $1200, you're better off spending $800 on a system that will play every current game at high speed and using the remaining $400 for something else... Games, bills, whatever. Or better yet, save it for 6 to 8 months, and spend it on a card that will be better than what you would have had if you spent the $1200 up front, that also uses less power. All that, and you don't even lose any enjoyment, because your lesser card runs practically as well in the meantime. Unless, of course, what you really enjoy is b

  • GTX 256's (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DeadBugs ( 546475 ) on Monday December 12, 2005 @03:58PM (#14240886) Homepage
    The GTX 256's perform at or near the X1800XT's (looking at the linked benchmarks). These cards will cost you at least $400 less for a pair, use a single slot design, run cooler and quieter.


    **(And yes they now support Linux in SLI).
    • Its great and all that ATI supports this under Linux. But have many of you really tried using ATI cards + 3d Acceleration? First its horrible to setup depending on your kernel version. Secondly the performance in OpenGL games under linux is absolutely Horrid. Im talking 30fps in UT2k4 with a 9800pro with EVERYTHING down. This is common too, not just a case by case situation. Also, Cedega run games have major troubles and compatibility issues. ATI just isnt a very good option for the linux users ATM. F
    • Yeah, but do they run Linux?
      • Yep, NVidia at least produces binary drivers for Linux. ATI has nothing.
      • No. Nobody has a working C -> GLSL compiler working yet, AFAIK. I think the next few generations will allow pointer manipulation in the shading languages, then we can start to look at really silly things like OS ports.

        You can use them with Linux though. :)

  • sigh (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by Andy Gardner ( 850877 )
    I wish there weren't idiots out there who'll pay £370 for a graphics card. That way these companies wouldn't be able to charge the exorbinate prices they do and I'd be able to afford one!
    Honestly who's daft enough to pay for bleeding edge technology so they can run at 1600x1200 instead of 1280x960.
    • I wish there weren't idiots out there who'll pay £370 for a graphics card. That way these companies wouldn't be able to charge the exorbinate prices they do and I'd be able to afford one!

      I know EXACTLY how you feel. Just the other day, I saw a BMW M3 drive buy, and thought the exact same thing. It's not fair that people will pay for luxury goods! By doing so, they deprive the lower classes of the same goods! High-income consumers have a responsibility to the lower income classes to only by cheap
      • Rubbish, and your analogy is way off. Yea, right, if people don't pay what companies ask then they'll stop making them... Infact it works the other way round, companies charge what they think consumers are willing to pay.

        If people stopped paying the premium price they currently pay for bleeding edge technology, (which drops in price in however many months when ATI or Nvidia make the next 'breakthrough') they wouldn't artificially inflate the prices in the first place.

    • Re:sigh (Score:4, Interesting)

      by DeathPenguin ( 449875 ) * on Monday December 12, 2005 @05:41PM (#14241801)
      Considering how video cards have recently overtaken CPUs in complexity, I don't think they're charging too terribly much. Not only do you get more transistors in a modern GPU than a Pentium 4, but also 256-512MB of GDDR3 RAM. Granted, this sort of power isn't necessary for a lot of people. That's why both nVidia and ATi offer cheaper versions of their flagship cards with similar capabilities, only slower. For example, the GeForce 6200 and the Radeon x300 are both decent gfx cards that are available for around $50.

      I wonder if ATi and nVidia even comes close in terms of profit margins on GPUs as Intel does on CPUs...
    • Geez, get this into your heads slashdot readers. Not everyone is a cashstrapped teenager. Also compared to such other hobbies as diving let alone sailing a top of the line PC is peanuts. I got a co-worker working on his boat and it is a cheap one. Only costing about as much a small mercedes. He spend his weekends in the summer sanding it and painting it. You would not believe what marine quality paint costs and how much goes on a small boat.

      Nah, PC is a cheap hobby. An uncle of mine used to collect model t

      • Amen Brotha!! So I have a good job, no kids, low mortgage, and I still get crap from my coworkers because I spent $500 on a video card. But no one blinks twice when a coworker spends that much for a cable for his winch on his 4wd, or the guy who spends that much on a Koi for his pond, or the girl who spent that much for 1 day of skiing. Nor the guy who spends three times that much per month for child care! PC gaming is relatively cheap hobby.
    • What we need is a system where a governmental body can set a maximum price on all consumer goods, and then use their powers to force the various companies to continue to produce said goods in the event that the set price provides no incentive to produce the good.

      Or do you have a better idea? I'm not too sure mine will work, and I'm tapped.

  • video card regrets (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    One of my regrets in life is all the money I wasted on new CPUs, RAM and video cards (remember the Diamond Monster 3d? the GeForce 3? The Radeon 9700 OEM?) back in the 90s just to play the latest games. And all those hours reconfiguring config files to squeeze the last resources available.

    I wish I had all those hours back, and all that money. I never got my money's worth. I still have a Radeon 9700 OEM in a PC downstairs. Granted it's got a better picture for watching movies on TV than my GeForce 3, but sti
  • "Further, if the latest rumors about the 7800GTX 512MB are true..."

    http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28227 [theinquirer.net]
    "[Nvidia's next-gen card] is expected in early February and Nvidia is already playing with these cards."

    So it would suprise anyone that they would discontinue the old card when they launch a new high-end card? Why is that a 'rumor', it is common sense.

  • Just speculation (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ironwill96 ( 736883 )
    But is it possible that the reason Nvidia is discontinuing their high-end card in February of 2006, is because they are releasing a NEW card that will probably trounce anything ATI has out.

    Just a thought..considering that it seems about time for Nvidia to release a new GPU in the next 3 months or so.

  • slightly more sensible perspective (Score:3, Informative)

    by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Monday December 12, 2005 @04:35PM (#14241208)
    http://shsc.info/PCPartsPickingGuide#titelanker13 [shsc.info]

    If you skip down to the section on motherboards, they show that SLI isn't even remotely worth it.

    • Let me get this straight..

      One top of the line product, Model-Y, costs twice as much as the next best, Model-X, yet performs only 3% better. And two Model Y's together perform roughly 5% better than one Model-X at 4 times the cost. And you're suggesting that this is somehow a bad deal?

      Interesting theory. Maybe you could call it "The Law of Diminishing Returns." [wikipedia.org] Or something...
  • I just love the way that the guys at nvidia refer to this ATI technology. It's not CrossFire, It's MissFire.
    • >>I just love the way that the guys at nvidia refer to this ATI technology. It's not CrossFire, It's MissFire.

      Their drivers seem to miss Linux almost entirely :-P
    • Given that ATI and NVidia are both on my "do not buy under any circumstances[*]" list, it seems like a case of measuring the non-reflectivity of pots and kettles to me! :)

      [*] Actually, there is a circumstance under which I'd consider them, but I refuse to hold my breath waiting for a full source-code release to either company's drivers or even a full spec release.
  • ATI released v8.20.0 of their proprietary Linux driver last week. The new driver apparently now handles system suspend and resume correctly, which is good news for laptop owners.

    Schwab

  • Marketing ignorance strikes again! (Score:4, Funny)

    by deacon ( 40533 ) on Monday December 12, 2005 @04:56PM (#14241378) Journal
    Note to marketing:

    The definition of the word "crossfire" as it pertains to a physical object:

    A short circuit between two spark plug wires on an engine which causes a cylinder to fire at the wrong time, or causes more than one cylinder to fire at a time. It is a BAD THING (tm).

    Now, it is perfectly normal that Chrysler pick the same word for one of their new cars, truth in advertising and all that. But the people at ATI don't want to have a name associated with a malfunctioning ignition system.

    • They probably took the much more common definition - two lines of (gun)fire converging at a point - which serves their purpose perfectly well. Not that we should believe everything dictionary.com has to say (they think "color" and "neighbor" are words), but in this case I think they've got it right.

      http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=crossfire [reference.com]

    • Re:Marketing ignorance strikes again! (Score:4, Funny)

      by Surt ( 22457 ) on Monday December 12, 2005 @06:31PM (#14242200) Homepage Journal
      I'm pretty sure that they are not making analogy with cars, but rather with KKK cross burning. As in 'these things are as hot as a KKK cross fire!' I'm sure you'll see a fold out in Computer Gaming World any time now with such imagery selling these cards.

    • A short circuit between two spark plug wires on an engine which causes a cylinder to fire at the wrong time, or causes more than one cylinder to fire at a time. It is a BAD THING (tm).

      Wrong! It's quite clear they are referring to the semi-popular circa 1989 board game "Crossfire" [amazon.com]. Surely you remember the commercial where two kids are battling each other in Crossfire. The theme song was very 80's and very cool. I went something like "Crossfire! You'll get caught up in the ... CROSSFIRE! You'll get caught up

    • Perhaps they're CNN political talk show junkies? Working on the next big thing in American political discourse?

      (Cue James Earl Jones:)

      "Fed up with being lied to by the self-serving members of the political establishment? Insulted by the bullshit arguments they expect you believe? Ready to convince the Beltway Boys that the cost-benefit analysis is always negative when you fuck with democracy?

      You can bet Robert Novak will be spilling his guts about outing undercover CIA operative Valerie Plame...w

  • Better have a good PSU... (Score:4, Informative)

    by ruiner13 ( 527499 ) on Monday December 12, 2005 @05:03PM (#14241468) Homepage
    Holy crap, batman, any of these SLI/Crossfire modes will need quite a robust power supply. Even at idle in those configurations they'll pull about 150W, but when in max use can draw over 400W of power! I guess playing high-end games these days also comes with a big hit to your electric bill. Cripes! People might need to get a second job just to play games.
    • Hmmm... Having a fairly beefy computer and dual LCD monitors I thought I would go lookup what some of my other appliances around my house pull for comparison.

      According to:

      http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html [michaelbluejay.com]

      Oven: 5000 Watts
      Clothes Dryer: 5000 Watts
      Water Heater: 3800 Watts
      Air Conditioner: 3500 Watts
      Microwave: 1500 Watts
      Refrigerator: 500 Watts (mine is fairly large)
      32" TV: 150 Watts (Estimate)

      My Computer at Idle: 150 Watts
      My Computer While Playing a game: 350 Watts

      Now I'm too lazy to do the mat

  • Hard to get excited (Score:5, Insightful)

    by amightywind ( 691887 ) on Monday December 12, 2005 @05:49PM (#14241880) Journal

    It is hard to get excited about bleeding edge graphics cards, because ATI and NVidia refuse to publish their register sets so people can write good free Linux drivers. I have programmed ARM, Blackfin, and PIC processors. In all cases the registers are exhaustively documented and there are thriving communities of experts trying to get the most out of them. Your $600 video card's drivers were probably developed by a team of 4. Is the code any good? You will never know. Thanks for nothing ATI and NVidia.

  • Except... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ryan Amos ( 16972 ) on Monday December 12, 2005 @07:16PM (#14242520)
    A pair of these ATI X1800s may cost less than a pair of 512MB GeForce GTXs, but nobody buys the 512 MB GTX for SLI, it's way too expensive. You can get 95% of the performance at 50% of the price by just buying a pair of 7800 GTs and using SLI. There is no game out there that a dual 7800 GT SLI system cannot run at any res, with full graphics turned on.

    If you read any of the enthusiast sites, they back the 2x7800 GT in SLI as the best top-end rig. It basically comes down to the fact that dual 7800 GTs are so fast, you gain no noticible performance benefit from using 7800 GTXs.

    • It basically comes down to the fact that dual 7800 GTs are so fast, you gain no noticible performance benefit from using 7800 GTXs.

      I'm inclined to agree. For an extra $400 (Canadian) the extra 5% or so of performance you get with the 7800GTX just isn't worth it. I just bought myself two 7800GT's and I consider it one of the best price/performance values for SLI. If you look hard enough it's possible to find 7800GT cards that are cheaper than most 6800 Ultra cards!


    • There is no game out there that a dual 7800 GT SLI system cannot run at any res, with full graphics turned on.


      You don't play Everquest 2 do you?
  • Further, if the latest rumors about the 7800GTX 512MB are true, it would mean that this CrossFire graphics subsystem would arguably stand alone at the top of the graphics benchmarking mountain."

    So... if nVidia couldn't make/supply video cards (the rumour is that 7800GTX's are in short supply due to high demand), then ATI would have the fastest video cards...

    Freakin' genius rocket scientists we have doing article submissions around here.

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