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Windows Expert Jumps Ship 939

An anonymous reader writes to let us know that Scott Finnie, Computerworld's Windows expert, has given the final verdict to Windows after 3 months of using a Mac. And the verdict is: "Sayonara." Finnie is known to readers here for his many reviews of Vista as it progressed to release. Quoting: "If you give the Mac three months, as I did, you won't go back either. The hardest part is paying for it — everything after that gets easier and easier. Perhaps fittingly, it took me the full three-month trial period to pay off my expensive MacBook Pro. But the darn thing is worth every penny."
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Windows Expert Jumps Ship

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  • by Wilson_6500 ( 896824 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:09PM (#17940980)
    I'm confused by this. You can run Windows on a Mac with Bootcamp, right?

    I suppose what he or the summary meant to say is "PC versus Mac" or, probably, "Windows versus MacOS on a Mac." It's really fallacious to compare an operating system to a computing architecture. You Linux users out there should be angry, since it tacitly implies that the only thing a PC ever runs is Windows.

    Personally, I'm a computer gamer. Much of my computer time is spent gaming, with the rest being internet browsing and completion of homework/programming/etc. I use a PC because I want the level of control this architecture provides over my components. I use Windows because, well, for most games I pretty much have to.

    (Yes, techincally "PC" means a lot of things. I use the term PC out of convenience, which is probably ironic of me to say given what half of my post is complaining about.)
  • by Pentavirate ( 867026 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:11PM (#17941014) Homepage Journal
    People have different preferences. That's what makes the free market work. Thank goodness we have choices!
  • by Midnight Thunder ( 17205 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:11PM (#17941016) Homepage Journal
    Change if you want, stay if you want. I work on a Mac at home, an MS-Windows based PC at work and Linux my website. I like my Mac, but in a properly managed environment Windows does a good job too. I don't like the "I'm better than you attitude" coming from either side, use what you like and recognise each has its issue - like a significant other, you need decide what attracts you and which issues you can live with.

    If I had to choose a new computer tomorrow it would be a Mac, but that's my preference and my choice.

    --
    If you use the Mac, my choice of apps: Adium, Delicious Library, Disco, TextWrangler, Transmit, Darwin Ports, Handbrake
  • by Crasty ( 1019258 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:15PM (#17941070)
    I could buy it from Bob's trunk-porium and still not have it payed off in three months. Not everyone is rich, or willing to put their income directly to computer purchases.. Price is relative.
  • by Simon Garlick ( 104721 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:21PM (#17941124)
    I, on the other hand, have no need for the sheer horsepower of a Mac Pro. So when I dumped my Windows machines a couple of months ago, I got Mac Mini for my desktop and a Macbook for my laptop. Couldn't be happier.
  • by superpulpsicle ( 533373 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:24PM (#17941152)
    A PC with linux can be built to far higher specification than a mac locked-in by proprietary Apple. It's crazy to think a USB cable is better if purchased from Apple because they charge you more. Let's not confuse hardware with software quality.

  • by Sam Ritchie ( 842532 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:26PM (#17941194) Homepage

    Pro-linux I get, it's all about philosophy, but pro-apple, pro-microsoft, pro-nintendo, pro-proctor-and-gamble, I don't get - unless you're an employee or stockholder.

    I'd call myself pro-Apple - I've been a Mac owner since '92 (and a user prior to that), I like and enjoy their products, and I'm happy to give them my hard-earned in exchange for new kit. Similarly, I'm 'pro-Nikon' since picking up my Dad's Nikonos fifteen years ago; even to the extent I'm willing to pay more for one than a comparable Canon. Just because you don't 'get' it doesn't mean loyalty to a company is irrational or misplaced. It's kind of like having a favourite sports team - there doesn't have to be a philosophical reason behind it.

    Regarding the Slashdot coverage, I don't think it's necessarily all pro-Apple as much as pro-not-Microsoft. One day we'll reach a point where OS choice in the average school/home/work environment is not predestined. IMO, that's a good outcome for everyone (except MS stockholders & employees).

  • by Flavio ( 12072 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:27PM (#17941212)
    People have different preferences. That's what makes the free market work.

    Exactly, and this is why a lot less people should be using Windows. As long as Windows is shipped with computers and people have to pay the Microsoft tax, there isn't a free market to speak of.

    Most Windows users didn't choose a Microsoft operating system, so their preferences weren't a factor.
  • by DWIM ( 547700 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:43PM (#17941486)

    As long as Windows is shipped with computers and people have to pay the Microsoft tax, there isn't a free market to speak of.


    Are you implying that you can buy a Mac that is not bundled with an OS? Seriously, I don't know. Is that true?

    Regardless, the parent topic demonstrates there is a free market. You can buy a personal computer w/o Windows on it. Mac owners do it all the time.

  • by Nerftoe ( 74385 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:44PM (#17941504)
    Bryan,

    Trying to help out here... Your server performance would be much better if:

    1) ..you do not have 3 1/2 MB of images on the landing page of your blog
    2) ..you do not host any mission critical website on the same server as site mentioned in point 1 above.
    3) ..you do not post your mission critical websites on slashdot.

    Hope this helps.. please be more careful in the future.
  • by wass ( 72082 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:45PM (#17941522)
    XCode is about ten years behind Microsoft Visual Studio. Apple really needs a modern development enviornment

    Care to elaborate a bit more on that?
  • Amen brother (Score:4, Insightful)

    by edwardpickman ( 965122 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:45PM (#17941534)
    Long time user of PCs but there's no comparing the two. You get spoiled fast on a Mac. After reading a large number of reviews about Vista by pro Windows people ironically I'm afraid to buy a new machine. I hate XP because it's always harrassing me. Now I'm reading from people that didn't find XP a hassle that Vista is really bad about the constant prompting? Sorry but that's a massive productivity killer. Also most things don't have drivers yet. Yes I know they'll come out eventually but not overnight. Software was keeping me using Windows but I started researching Mac alternatives again. Final Cut Pro got me to buy a Mac. I think I can switch 90% of my operation to Mac and just keep one machine running Win 2000 for the softwares I can't live without. If most people tried the current Macs they'd switch. For a six year development cycle Vista is a joke. Apple is making more improvements in a single year and they get easier to use not more of a hassle.
  • by BWJones ( 18351 ) * on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:48PM (#17941578) Homepage Journal
    It's how you use it son! LOL

    Seriously though, it is in the implementation mostly and the ethos secondarily. These things are harder to quantify and you essentially just have to experience it first person rather than trying to academically pick apart the differences, because then you would simply be arguing about interface design, code design, and aesthetics. Basically, the OS simply does not get in your way to perform actions, like supporting USB drives or external peripherals. On OS X, they simply work and with Windows, it's always popping up messages saying "I see you are trying to add new hardware" or something like that. We've simply found that productivity is much higher with OS X than it is with Windows because of all the little stuff like this. The hardware itself is actually pretty good (windows generally runs faster on Mac hardware than it does commodity and the thought that goes into its design is stunning. I still think that the G4 case design is one of the best computer case designs in history, but the same holds true for the OS as well. It is good to see NeXTstep fully mature in OS X and I look forward to what productivity gains 10.5 is going to bring.

  • by Zerathdune ( 912589 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:53PM (#17941664) Journal
    Care to enlighten me as to why he should not refer to the machine by its model name? And I fail to see that the reason behind why they are faster makes any real difference.
  • by wall0159 ( 881759 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:54PM (#17941680)
    circa 1994:

    I understand that Windows is a solid alternative to DOS , but a better interface and graphics is not going to make me switch. I want the same operating system my friends, parents and neighbours have. It may sound ignorant but it's not.

    Change is inevetable. Sticking with a familiar brand-name won't mean avoiding change.
  • Re:Good luck Apple (Score:2, Insightful)

    by januth ( 1000892 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:54PM (#17941688)
    All true, but you forgot "enterprise integration".

    Picture this: you work for a large multinational firm with users numbering in the 10's of thousands. How, exactly, would migrate the lot of them from Windows to Mac? Moreover, do you think that you could actually sell the migration to upper management?

    Actually, this is a great topic for a general Slashdot discussion...
  • by Buran ( 150348 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @07:58PM (#17941730)
    "You can pay $1300 for a mac"

    I see the $1300-$1500 figure quoted a lot, but it's just plain wrong -- the actual cost is about half of what people think it is. I can get a Mac Mini for $579 (since I work at a university) and the general-public cost is around $600 or a little more. That's actually less than what I've been quoting people lately who ask me to put a decent gaming PC together for them on newegg (I build wishlists and email them to the "clients" who ask for my recommendations).

    While it is true that a Mac Mini is not a good choice for running games as it's not upgradable and doesn't have a great video card, it is also true that it's great for what most people use a computer for -- web, email, and sometimes organizing photos, music, and videos.

    $600-700ish for a brand new shiny Mac that won't have all the security problems of Windows is not a bad deal. Not at all.

    Besides, didn't Slashdot complain once that Apple didn't have a $500-$700 system available? Now that they do, people STILL complain. You just can't make anyone happy around here.
  • by the_macman ( 874383 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:00PM (#17941782)

    You can pay $1300 for a mac...or you can spend $700 for a PC. Which do you THINK parents are going to buy? Parents aside, what do you think MOST people are going to go with.

    This is simply untrue. Go to any campus and you'll see the adoption rate of Apple laptops vs PC is making a dominating comeback. Take for exampe my univ, University of Central, 6th largest univ in the nation (47,000 students). I'd say about 3 out of 5 laptops are Macs. A student going to college probably has the financial backing of their parents and they want the best for their child. Most parents ARE willing to pay $600 for a better laptop, which is why they're EVERYWHERE on campus.

    Apples decision to limit their OS to their hardware is what is killing their adoption rate. If I could buy OSX for my PC...i probably would, just so I could have both. But I don't want to have to spend twice as much on my computer just to run an OS that TECHNICALLY doesn't do as much as Windows does...


    This is true, but it's a double edged sword. Apple's ability to control the hardware and the software make the whole computing experience more enjoyable. While making their OS open to other hardware would increase adoption it would ruin the computer experience that Mac OS X and Apple hardware currently do so well.
  • by M. Baranczak ( 726671 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:00PM (#17941786)
    dell + linux works just fine [I imagine acer+linux or hp+linux work fine too ... just have personal exp. with dell]

    I do have experience with an Acer laptop and Linux. It sucked! Getting the on-board wireless to work was a huge project, and I couldn't get suspend or the volume control keys to work at all.

    Desktops are generally OK, but some laptops just do not play nice with anything but Windows. If you want to run Linux, do some research before you buy. That's what I should have done - unfortunately, that was kind of an emergency purchase, since my old laptop died suddenly while I was on the road.
  • by Gerald ( 9696 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:03PM (#17941826) Homepage
    You can pay $1300 for a mac...or you can spend $700 for a PC. Which do you THINK parents are going to buy?

    The "cool" one.

  • by umdenken ( 729008 ) <(moc.liamg) (ta) (xdp.tra.cisum)> on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:10PM (#17941930) Journal

    "Microsoft Tax?" What do you expect? In order to use OSX you have to own apple hardware. Parents buying computers for their kids for college/hs are going to care about one thing: Price.

    You can pay $1300 for a mac...or you can spend $700 for a PC. Which do you THINK parents are going to buy? Parents aside, what do you think MOST people are going to go with.

    No, I think this is way over-simplified. You can't just reduce everything down to the price of computer A and the price of computer B. There are a lot of different kinds of people out there, shopping in different markets:

    IMO, the Apples are priced VERY competitively - they're clearly high-quality machines, and they compete in the Sony Vaio and Lenovo Thinkpad market. THAT'S how the computers need to be evaluated.

    The people who are out shopping for the $450 laptops on sale at Fry's aren't going to even consider the Vaio's either.

  • by Iamthefallen ( 523816 ) <Gmail name: Iamthefallen> on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:14PM (#17942006) Homepage Journal
    Funny, when configuring a Mac I don't see an option to select an O/S other than Mac OS X, how do I avoid the Apple tax?
  • by earthbound kid ( 859282 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:20PM (#17942112) Homepage
    You stopped using Windows because they forced you to install a web browser?

    If so then my question is what do you do now that the only OS that doesn't come with a web browser built-in is Abacus 1.0?

    Seriously, MS has done a lot of crap things over the years, and it was harsh of them to make IE uninstallable, but bundling the browser with the OS? If you can bundle worthless stuff like solitaire with an OS and no one complains, I don't see how anyone can be upset about an OS coming packaged with the single most important piece of software for a modern computer. Seriously. I'm a proud Mac user, but I'll go to the mat for MS on this one: Bundling a web browser was the right thing to do. While strong arming OEMs into not including Netscape was evil, including IE was completely justified.
  • by OmegaBlac ( 752432 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:21PM (#17942136)
    As opposed to the time the average Windows user spends installing antivirus, antispyware, a personal firewall, dozens of patches, and three sets of activation. Then after all that, they finally can get down to crawling the web to download their apps, run in thru the antivirus or inserting CD/DVDs in and out to install all their software. I'll take the Free and free Linux/BSD any day of the week.
  • by LibertineR ( 591918 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:29PM (#17942264)
    Fine, have you got 3-6 months of YOUR salary in the bank? If not Pilgram, you are still broke.

    Sorry. In America, we suggest having money before having children, because the day may come when instead of a child, you might just want a kickass video card.

    But, good luck with that.....*shiver*

  • by shmlco ( 594907 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:31PM (#17942296) Homepage
    You can. And then you can pay $300 again in six months when the flimsy POS dies and needs to be replaced. According to some stats I've seen most Macs are used and kept around for about four years, whereas the replacement rate for PCs is just two.

    Further, note that all of the Macs are either Core or Core 2 Duos, whereas most of the cheap PCs and notebooks are hitting that $300 price point by using Centrinos. Or in other words, you get what you pay for...
  • by be-fan ( 61476 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:48PM (#17942490)
    That's an important point. I move pretty regularly between Linux and OS X, and I shopped around for a bit to find a PC laptop comparable to my MacBook. They're really hard to find. Sony sells a nice Vaio (C190) that has similar specs, but also costs about the same. And if you want to go into ThinkPad territory, be prepared to pay a whole lot more.

    Sure you can buy a laptop for way cheaper than the $1100 Apple is charging for its low-end MacBook. But how many of those have Core 2 CPUs? And if its so over-priced, why is Dell charging $1000 for machines with almost exactly the same specs*?

    *) Not to mention an inferior LCD panel!
  • by ScriptedReplay ( 908196 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:56PM (#17942546)

    yeah, if your time is worth nothing it's free.


    If you're knowledgeable, the amount of time spent configuring Linux/*BSD is comparable with the one securing a new Windows machine. Hence free in this case is apt. Otherwise you have to climb the learning curve which requires a time investment, or contract someone to do it for you. In which case 'free' becomes one of various levels of 'cheap'. After which, the time and money saved by not having to periodically contract someone to clean up the Windows machine (we're talking non-knowledgeable owners, the average Windows user profile) is just gravy.

    The only case when your quote truly applies is for someone who knows how to keep a Windows machine (relatively) safe and working yet has no experience with other operating systems. So it's a valid point, but limited in scope.
  • by 0100010001010011 ( 652467 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @08:56PM (#17942552)
    Get 2. It wont hurt a thing. I have 2 in my MBP. I had 2 in my old G4.

    I give Windows 1 GB when I boot into Parallels.

    Just don't buy from Apple. I personally like http://www.dealram.com/ [dealram.com] I've used it for a few years.

    If you're looking for some good deals, you can check out their sister site dealmac.com. Legally (I think) vendors can't sell Macs cheaper than Apple, however some have bundles going for the same price. Warranty and all that work still go through Apple.
  • by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) ( 613870 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @09:08PM (#17942658) Journal
    You really aren't getting the rules of this game at all. If you're going to compare refurbished PCs with Macs then you should compare with Macs on eBay. These rules really are simple - it's hard to understand how anyone could fail to understand them.
  • by thedbp ( 443047 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @09:23PM (#17942814)
    You are absolutely right.

    And that Linux box will run iMovie, GarageBand, iTunes, Microsot Office, require no command-line knowledge, and work out of the box with most major peripherals without having to download or install any drivers, right?

    Right?

    *crickets*

    I love linux. I do. I reccomend it constantly. But the truth is, it isn't there yet for most people.
  • by Colin Smith ( 2679 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @09:30PM (#17942860)

    A user choosing not to put documents on the desktop is not a valid reason for a system to be better.
    Of course it is, it's completely unintuitive. Hell, even the My Documents folder in Windows is hidden away in the file browser by default instead of right there on the desktop... You have to manually link it to the desktop. Which means you have to know how to link it... Which makes it harder to use than Linux or OSX. Then there's all the application links cluttering the desktop, what's that all about? And the applications are under Start-> All Programs > then they're organised by vendor (doh!) rather than purpose.

    In Linux, your documents are in Documents, right there on the desktop, the applications are in Applications, organised by purpose.

    Face it, Windows is now the hardest to use of the three. It's desktop metaphor is fubar, the applications are hidden away by vendor so you have to know who makes the sofware you want to use to work.
     
  • by willy_me ( 212994 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @09:32PM (#17942878)

    WHY ARE PEOPLE SO PRO APPLE? ARE YOU THAT FUCKING STUPID? Pro-linux I get, it's all about philosophy, but pro-apple, pro-microsoft, pro-nintendo, pro-proctor-and-gamble, I don't get - unless you're an employee or stockholder.

    People are pro ---- because they found a product/company that they are happy with. They found something that makes their life better and are publicly stating this fact so that others may also benefit from the product/company. It doesn't matter what product or service they are talking about, the reasons are generally the same. The same applies when people are anti ----, just for different reasons. They got screwed over by a product/service and they are spreading the word so that others can avoid making the same mistakes that they made. It's basic human nature. Come to think of it, ants do the same thing. ;)

    Do you realize how much it would suck if Apple completely took over the desktop market?

    I agree with you completely and don't think anyone wants Apple to dominate the desktop market. But wouldn't it be great if they had a 20% market share? Now developers will think more about cross-platform compatibility. This would benefit everyone (Mac, Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, - but not Microsoft).

    I won't buy a Mac, ever. Quit trying to sell me one. I have no problems using a PC, and would rather keep my cash. I have no problems if you like your Mac, but seriously, GET OVER IT. It's really not that amazing or impressive to me.

    Nobody is trying to make you buy a Mac - well, except maybe Apple. If you're happy then that's great. Personally, I'm hesitant recommending a Mac to most people for fear there is an application they can no longer run. But for certain people a Mac makes a lot of sense.

    What people are trying to tell you is that, if you have the opportunity, you should give MacOS a try. And it takes more then a day so give it a couple of months. You will either think it is a waste of money and stick with Windows or you will have found a better way to get your work done. Either way, you would come out knowing more then when you started. People might not agree with your choice, but they will respect it.

    Willy
  • by JackieBrown ( 987087 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @09:33PM (#17942882)
    Sorry, but the average Windows user does not purchase a full copy of Norton in my experience. They let the it expire and wonder why 4 month later their PC is running slower.
  • by Beer_Smurf ( 700116 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @09:36PM (#17942930) Homepage
    Yes but your $300.00 PC does NOT come with a copy of Windows Vista Ultimate and the Mac Mini does come with a full version of OSX.
  • by mehgul ( 654410 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @09:40PM (#17942954)
    It's most probably simply what's kept them alive all these years, and still keeps them alive! Face it, guys, even if Apple were to licence OS X to whomever wants it on their computers, there won't be a rush where 50% of computers will sell with OS X within a few months, not even 25%. Only a handful of manufacturers will dip their toes shipping OS X in the beginning.
    A couple of months is all the time it would take for MS to 'renegotiate' Windows prices with this handful of manufacturers that want to ship OS X, thereby sinking their Windows based business, which would still be their cash-cow long after they start selling OS X. That is, if they're still able to do any business. At the same time, the Microsoft Mac Business Unit may or may not unexpectedly vanish, and MS Office for Mac may or may not continue to be developed. You can guess how appealing Mac OS X can be without MS Office (it's the first piece of software on TFA's must have list). And don't hold your breath anticipating the DOJ trying to stop that.
    Nope, the market is not ready for OS X on generic machines. Not until everybody switches to the OpenDocument format.
  • by saleenS281 ( 859657 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @09:55PM (#17943124) Homepage
    If it were profitable you would find just that. It's called free market. Start your own company and start selling computers without windows installed. If there is a demand you'll make a boatload of money ;) I think you'll find as most retailers have, the demand is exactly 0.
  • by dunng808 ( 448849 ) <garydunnhi@@@gmail...com> on Thursday February 08, 2007 @09:58PM (#17943152) Journal

    If you're knowledgeable, the amount of time spent configuring Linux/*BSD is comparable with the one securing a new Windows machine. Hence free in this case is apt.
    Think "free" as in speech. Whenever a comparison between FOSS and commercial software is based on price, Total Cost to Operate, or something similar, the results are inconclusive. The significant difference is in the way *you* get control of your software and data. FOSS programs and file formats are not controlled exclusivley by someone else.

    BTW, I use FreeBSD all the time. But that's not to imply that Linux falls short in any way. And at home, we use Macs. Lots of 'em.
  • by pclminion ( 145572 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @10:03PM (#17943204)

    Funny, when configuring a Mac I don't see an option to select an O/S other than Mac OS X, how do I avoid the Apple tax?

    This argument is just plain ridiculous. When Microsoft starts making PCs, get back to me.

  • by mehgul ( 654410 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @10:06PM (#17943222)
    Consider downgrading to the white MacBook and get the 2GB RAM instead. In fact, that's exactly what I've done. And I even took the RAM directly from Apple, because it's supported by Apple. And actually the price wasn't that bad, considering that if I had to buy 2 sticks of 1 GB RAM, and try to re-sell the 2 sticks of 512MB, I would probably still have paid more than just the upgrade price. However, the upgrade price for the hard disk is steep, and for little more than the price of the 120GB upgrade, I got myself a nice 160GB plus a USB enclosure for the shipping 80GB which I kept as an external HD.
    Oh, and the MacBook really can use the 2GB RAM, it's even a shame it can't take more. I still have huge swaps after long sessions with Parallels, Acrobat, Mail, iTunes, and a whole bunch of tabs in Safari and/or Firefox.
  • by Strudelkugel ( 594414 ) * on Thursday February 08, 2007 @10:24PM (#17943362)

    I expect to go to any computer retailer and be able to buy a computer without Windows pre-installed. That's all I want -- I don't dispute anything you wrote.

    I just don't understand this argument. I've been buying whitebox PCs for years. I even bought a whitebox laptop. No one forces anyone to buy an OS with a PC, except for Apple. (BTW, I own an iMac.) Sure, the large vendors may make it tricky to buy a system without Windows, but there is a simple answer: Buy from a whitebox vendor, usually a local PC store.

    If you don't like burgers, go to a sushi joint. There may be more burger places than sushi restaurants, but don't claim everyone is forced to eat burgers.

  • by tiny-e ( 940381 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @10:33PM (#17943430)

    First, alot of individuals do actually choose to run Windows because it has the software solutions necessary to function. Where is AutoCAD for OSX? I don't want another version of CAD, nor do I want to dual boot the system using Boot Camp. I would want a native version for OSX.

    AutoCAD 2007 runs just fine in Parallels.

    The most important is that their software is vastly inferior to most of what is out there. It looks good, but nice like ****. Even OSX on a core 2 duo is slowwww. It almost crawls.

    I'd take iTunes over WMP, iPhoto over the Camera and Scanner Wizard, and iMovie over Windows Movie Maker any day. I've also used OS X on 3 recent Core Duo machines and if was very snappy, I would hardly say it crawls.

    As a Linux user who has to tolerate Windows, I have no time for OSX. It just isn't open, is slow, and surrounded by what really amounts to nothing more than a cult. Why don't you just go back to worshiping Steve and leave the rest of us the **** alone. Mac users really do equate to the Jehovah Witness movement (you think your paradigm is the only one that is important, and you just won't leave people alone to actually select something that you view is inferior). Maybe, we actually like what we use and are not driven by wants and desires for manipulation.

    Whatever helps you sleep at night.
    I work in an office that is 100% Windows based, and I bring my Powerbook with me to work everyday for my personal stuff, and inevitably wind up using it to solve some problem that our Windows machines can't fix (admittedly sometimes due to the fact that end users are locked out of everything -- which is due to XP's neato take on what a multi-user environment is).

    6 out of 6 of the last personal computers purchased by employees (for personal use) were Macs. All end-users are more than happy with their purchases as most of them had gone the Windows route on their previous machines and can genuinely appreciate the Mac & OS X user experience.

    Another thing... almost 100% of all purchases are emotional decisions. People just tend to make up supporting "logical facts" to help themselves deal with the fact that they bought something simply because they wanted it.
  • by LibertineR ( 591918 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @11:01PM (#17943692)
    Picture 7 years of college and graduate school, a career at Microsoft, then owning my own company.

    Luck had nothing to do with it. I worked my ass off, and in America, anyone willing to do that can be successful.

    ANYONE!

  • by Buran ( 150348 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @11:34PM (#17943988)
    "(I would also argue that there's no reason whatsoever for compulsory wifi on non-laptop computers.)"

    So why not disable it? There's an option to turn it off, and then it won't be used. I'd rather have the option there and not use it than not have it when I do need it. It's like how I'll be moving to Florida this summer, but I'm still buying a car that has heated seats. Yes, it's a package deal thing (just like the Mac, have to buy it at order time and can't add it in later) but I'd rather have that switch there instead of a blank hole cover on the occasional time when I do want to warm up my butt. If I don't want to use it, I can just leave the switch on "off".
  • Re:A switcher (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 08, 2007 @11:42PM (#17944036)
    VLC Player filled in the "play windows media files" hole, which really was one of the last reasons to boot Windows.

    You might want to try Flip4Mac. You can play windows media files from any quicktime application, even with the free version.
  • by blankoboy ( 719577 ) on Thursday February 08, 2007 @11:43PM (#17944050)
    I would gladly switch to using OSX and dumping windows but not until it is officially supported (not talking about osx86) on PC hardware. I realize that I may be waiting a looong time (read: forever) for that to happen but I will never shell out $ for an Apple branded box. I want the OS, not the hardware.

    If it were ever to happen you would see a landslide of switchers. This would after several years, I believe, creep into the corporate environment. Microsoft would be the sad nerd at the party that no one talks to. What a sweet vision that would be.

  • by ArbitraryConstant ( 763964 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @12:00AM (#17944180) Homepage
    "So yes, even with the Intel Macs, you can get machines cheaper than what Apple well sell them for. However, it's no surprise you can get a cheaper machine with lesser hardware! However, if you try to match the basic specs, and a couple of the accessories (ie: no consumer machine today should ship without wifi!) you're not going to save a lot of money over the Mac."

    The opposite is also true. The various accessories might cost a lot to add, but you save a lot if you don't add them because don't need them. Having something like firewire or a camera bundled only justifies the cost if you're willing to pay for that stuff, if it'll give you some benefit. It's not reasonable to simply point at all the stuff an iMac has, and point at how much it costs to match that with a PC, if you'd never get a PC like that. It's a comparison without meaningful context.

    I was in this position when I got my current machine. Mac Pros are priced pretty reasonably as dual-Xeon machines go, but having all that CPU power was never my goal. I wanted RAID for data integrity, and PCI-E to allow for upgrades in the future, and nothing about that requires dual-Xeons. For my needs, a Mac Pro is stupidly expensive.

    Similarly, if you don't need a remote, or firewire, or a webcam, or a fancy graphics card, then you're paying a lot for an machine that is well equipped in ways that don't benefit you. Conversely, if you want more than an iMac offers, you're SOL. If you'd prefer to substitute firewire for an interface that's fast enough to handle current hard drives like eSATA, or want something better than an underclocked 7600GT, or want 4 gb of memory, then there's just no way to do it with an iMac.

    They may be sufficiently well equipped to justify the cost, but that does not imply one's needs justify the expense.
  • by TimTheFoolMan ( 656432 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @12:46AM (#17944508) Homepage Journal
    With "Sure, the large vendors may make it tricky to buy a system without Windows...," you made the parent's point.

    If I want to buy a name-brand box (so I can get the benefit of support for hardware issues, or so I can keep a consistent hardware platform across my company), it's very, very hard to do this. There are channels, but Microsoft has made sure that they are not well publicized, and has slapped the hands of vendors who have not played according to the rules (by bumping up the license fees, or put clauses in the license agreements to the same effect).

    When you say "No one forces anyone to buy an OS with a PC...," the answer is what about the major PC manufacturers? For all intents and purposes, they do exactly that.

    Tim
  • by nathanh ( 1214 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @12:56AM (#17944570) Homepage

    People have different preferences. That's what makes the free market work. Thank goodness we have choices!

    The free market requires perfect knowledge. Many people aren't even aware there are choices. Ergo, it's not a free market.

  • by Kadin2048 ( 468275 ) <slashdot.kadin@xox y . net> on Friday February 09, 2007 @02:27AM (#17945128) Homepage Journal
    In fact, it's closer to $29 than $139. With Windows Vista for $50, with Novell Linux for $29. I know what most people would choose.

    Maybe you do, but I don't. I don't think it's an obvious choice at all. Most people don't even consider Linux as an option right now because it's not listed when they buy their Dell or HP; it's some sort of weirdo aftermarket geek hack, hardly a "legitimate" OS. If Dell priced out Windows, at whatever it actually costs, right next to Linux, I'd be happy. Even if it was "Windows Vista $50, Novell Linux $29," at least Linux would be there, next to Windows, as a valid option. That would go a very long way towards driving adoption -- even if people didn't buy it at first, they would probably at least see it there, and know that there is an alternative. It might take a few upgrade cycles, and a lot of good PR work, to get people to actually give it a shot, but having Linux as an option would plant the seed in people's minds that there is something besides Windows, and it is not just some integral part of the computer.

    To be honest, I think Microsoft fears the erosion of that 'package deal' more than they fear any particular OS. From their perspective, alternate operating systems have come and gone; first there was OS/2, and BeOS, and even the Mac OS has been pushed into a corner. They have been able to do this, because people have come to assume that Windows is the computer. When you make the OS a choice -- when you let people know that yes, they are choosing to use Windows, instead of something else, you strike at the very heart of this assumption. From there, you have a "foot in the door" for any number of alternate OSes (although admittedly, the field is a little thin aside from Linux at the moment).
  • Doubtful. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kadin2048 ( 468275 ) <slashdot.kadin@xox y . net> on Friday February 09, 2007 @02:39AM (#17945182) Homepage Journal
    I have a strong suspicion, judging from the increasing number of DOAs I've witnessed in the past few years, that the Big Name manufacturers (hardly 'manufacturers,' really they're just 'assemblers,' or better yet, 'name-stampers') do not do any real burn in testing anymore, besides making sure it POSTs.

    Perhaps I'm just cynical. It seems like it would be possible, though, to write a utility that would conduct a burn-in of the machine, and then erase itself, if you wanted to. It would just need to load itself into RAM, go through its test cycle, and then at the conclusion of the cycle, wipe the HD and then power the system down. Or you could have a burn-in program that was run off of the USB port, or a CD. The cost of writing something like that would probably pay for itself in a few hundred units; you wouldn't even have to be Dell for something like that to make sense.

    Just installing an OS and then letting the machine run idle for a few hours doesn't strike me as a particularly good test; for good QC you'd want heavy processor usage and disk I/O, in order to make sure that everything gets correctly stressed. That implies some sort of special software (which needs to be deleted afterwards); having an OS on the machine when it goes out to the customer doesn't really make this process that much easier.

    There is a certain overhead involved in dealing with more than one OS, that's understandable: if you previously only had one type of HD that got stuck into all your boxes, adding another option obviously creates some complexity. However, I don't think this is a legitimate anti-Linux argument: Microsoft has rolled out more and more versions of its OS, and the manufacturers have seemingly accepted without complaint. Obviously there are systems in place that allow for Windows {Home|Professional|Media Center} to get installed, and while the cost of going from 1 option to 2 is great, adding one more option seems fairly trivial. (How many options does Vista have? Adding another for "blank drive" or "FreeDOS," if not Linux proper, can't be that hard. It's only when you factor in Microsoft's retaliatory measures that it gets expensive.)
  • by ozmanjusri ( 601766 ) <aussie_bob@hotmail . c om> on Friday February 09, 2007 @02:58AM (#17945276) Journal
    With Windows Vista for $50, with Novell Linux for $29. I know what most people would choose.

    Yep, most, but not all.

    And that's why MS is so terrified of allowing Linux in at an OEM level. The biggest barrier to Linux adoption is its scarcity, but once enough of those scarce customers have ticked the $29 option, the applications will come, the hardware support will come and there'll be competition in the market again.

    The last thing Microsoft wants is to have to compete on price OR quality.

  • by rizzo320 ( 911761 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @03:14AM (#17945328)
    Part of the problem is that the Airport software in 10.2.8 is not very up to date. Compare it to trying to connect to a wireless with the built-in software of Windows 2000 (there isn't any of course, it's all third party).

    Keep in mind that Mac OS X 10.2.8 is end of life, just as Windows 2000 is (or will be very soon). Mac OS X 10.3.x is still actively supported by Apple with Security updates and patches, until, Mac OS X 10.5 comes out, and then, it too will be retired. Also keep in mind that your Powerbook will support Mac OS X 10.3, 10.4, and 10.5 when it comes out. So if you don't feel like spending the whole $149 it usually is to upgrade, you can spend the $79 for 10.4 or $59 for 10.3http://www.applerescue.com/?gclid=CN2CiYLeoIoC FQsEVAodyWbJuw [applerescue.com]

    I can't blame you or stop you from being upset, but to judge a vendor on software that's EOL is silly. And in most cases, 10.2.8 is still a really good system to run, and does most things well. You just happen to be complaining about support for a technology thats been evolving rapidly (wireless).
  • by Per Wigren ( 5315 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @03:33AM (#17945400) Homepage
    Who still uses wired ethernet in their house?

    Lets see... Almost everybody who have more than one non-laptop computer in their house?
    Wired ethernet is cheaper, more reliable, more secure and WAY faster than wireless. This will be true for the foreseeable future.
  • by FishinDave ( 802556 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @03:37AM (#17945424)
    He's a long-time Windows expert. This looks like a major career change. :-)
  • by saleenS281 ( 859657 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @03:46AM (#17945448) Homepage
    you're a statistical anomaly to the big vendors at best. A .00001% that can be rounded down to 0 when focusing on maximizing shareholder value. If you were not, they would sell what you are asking for.
  • Not exactly... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by garote ( 682822 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @04:05AM (#17945512) Homepage

    You stopped using Windows because they forced you to install a web browser?

    Not exactly...:

    Bundling a web browser was the right thing to do. While strong arming OEMs into not including Netscape was evil, including IE was completely justified.

    I think the argument is, he stopped using Windows because they forced him to browse his local filesystem with the web browser.

    (And all the atrocious hacks and spyware that engendered.)

  • Re:Not exactly... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by earthbound kid ( 859282 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @04:33AM (#17945626) Homepage
    KDE does it. It doesn't have to turn out as a security nightmare. That was more of a problem with Microsoft in general than the weird intertwining of iexplorer.exe and explorer.exe in particular.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 09, 2007 @07:53AM (#17946514)
    Yes. Exactly.

    I used to build custom rigs at a gaming store. Sometimes I'd offer to install a dual-boot of Linux (Ubuntu) for people when I got to talking to them and of the ones who said "yes", most came back to ask questions on how to work something in Ubuntu - which means they were using it! If I had to guess, of the people I installed Ubuntu for, fully 70 to 80 percent would come back having tried it to talk to me (or would call). A lot of people who never knew there was anything other than windows, are very happy to be without it now. Eventually I stopped advertising it because my boss pulled me aside and told me "we don't make money selling linux" when we got a customer asking about buying a laptop sans the windows and with that african program (Ubuntu) instead - of course our laptops come packaged with windows from our supplier - so that wasn't easy to explain to him. Plus the store was really marketed towards gaming (the premise of me being hired was that I win all the local lans and have street cred) and me pushing an operating system that doesn't natively allow gaming wasn't helping (I dual boot XP/Ubuntu).

    What's more, a lot of our money comes from fixing comps when they go wrong (we sell comps cheap to create repeat customers), so pushing a system that isn't gonna get itself full of spyware and reformat itself, or malfunction and "shutdown the internet" or just not work - isn't good for business.

    That's what your really fighting here, it's not just in Microsofts interest to have everyone using Windows, it's in the interest of every support or service related employee of the entire computer industry - no one makes money from selling Linux, and only Apple makes money from pushing Apple. Every computer professional the majority of people have direct access to, is going to tell them to buy Windows (to the exclusion of everything else, including me - even though I'm a firm Linux advocate).

    So yes, there is a conspiracy - and it's not created by microsoft shelling out big bucks to the entire industry to buy off the mouths of every professional - it's created by a need of every professional to make a living, and many of us do that via software for the windows platform, selling computers (bundled with windows so they break and we make money fixing them), games (what I consider to be the critical windows monopoly).

    If your goal is to end this tyranny of the OS, I have put a lot of thought into it - and I will say that the most critical market to convert is the gamers - if you turn games over to Apple and Linux you will turn over the vanguard of high end computers. Not only are they the most avid non-computer-literate computer-user group, they use the most cutting edge gear - which means that family house hold computers are typically former gaming rigs that are now out of date. The web browsing machine in the kitchen of every household was the gaming rig of the 90's passed up for the new one in Billys room upstairs. In 5-10 years time, it will be the one upstairs that ends up in the kitchen - and if the one upstairs were a linux box? They'd just have to get used to not having to reboot their computer every couple hours because it starts going to slow and not having to close popups all the time or deal with half a dozen spyware programs popping up to ethnically cleanse their computer.

    Convert the gamers, and Windows will fall forever. Of course, MS is well aware of this - which is why there is DX, and good things like OpenGL get screwed over.

    How do we convert gamers to Linux? There is only one viable solution - gamers will not accept Cedega as a permanent system for playing their games, they are high performance users - a few extra framerates is life or death when your in a CSS match. It has to come from the source - people need to know - and need to email/mail gaming companies, video card companies, anyone they can in the industry who will listen - and tell them something just as simple as - "I play these games of yours: , , , and I would appreciate if you would support
  • by guidryp ( 702488 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @08:50AM (#17946758)
    I can't afford to take money and burn it. Dual Xeons and ECC memory this platform is at least twice as expensive as it needs to be. This exceeds my computer budget by over 100%. I could build something on the PC that meets my needs and has similar power on most tasks for a little over 1/3 this cost. Giving Apple a chance, doesn't include being a moron with my money. I won't lay down an extra $1500 just to have OSX. That premium is a little rich for my blood.
  • by rahrens ( 939941 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @09:29AM (#17947016)
    Not hard to do. You simply right click (if you have a two button mouse or a mighty mouse configured for two buttons - option click if on a single button) on the file, and from the contextual menu, choose "Open with" and pick your program. You can either choose from the programs offered, or navigate to the Applications folder and choose the one you want.

    I've been doing this since the early OS X days...
  • by TWX ( 665546 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @10:35AM (#17947582)
    I stopped using Windows because they made me use their web browser, which, if you remember the hardware that we had at the time, reduced the available resources for other programs. It also was steaming pile of crap. When Microsoft decided that the web browser was the next hot thing I decided that Linux was the next hot thing, as my Linux machines had uptimes significantly longer than those running Windows, and I got tired of a little thing called a Blue Screen of Death. The browser was, as another poster put it, the straw that broke the camel's back.
  • by Dionysos Taltos ( 980090 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @11:21AM (#17948304)
    Parents buying computers for their kids for college/hs are going to care about one thing: Price.

    As a parent, who bought a computer for my college-bound child last year, I cared about one thing ... her ability to use it daily without my presence.

    My daughter is very intelligent. She graduated in the top 10 ... not top 10% ... of her graduating class of 600+ students. She's a freshman at a tier one school and she made Dean's List. I love her dearly, so I say this with total honesty and no ill-will. She lacks a great deal of common sense.

    We had a Dell at home and the child crashed it every 6-9 months with all the crap she downloaded, either intentionally or not. Usually unintentionally. If it wasn't crashing, then it was running really, really slow. There were also the weekly claims of the printer being dead. Never was, but she could never understand how to establish the connection between the computer and the printer.

    She wanted a Windows laptop for college because Windows is what she was used to. After much thought and discussion, we purchased her an iBook. She wasn't happy about it, and I even thought she might try and leave the iBook at home. One semester later, and only one technical call, and the iBook has been everything I wanted for my daughter away at school. There is no price for that, and certainly none that Dell could ever offer.

  • by Gadzeus ( 1061926 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @11:26AM (#17948396)
    There a many comments here claiming Apple computers are expensive relative to PCs. A typical one is:

    "I still can't see how you can claim that Macs are cheaper than PCs!"

    May I help?

    A computer cost over a year has three main components (ignoring finance):

    Lost interest on capital
    Depreciation
    Upgrade costs

    Let us work them out. You bought your $800 PC last year and were content that you didn't need the higher spec of the iMac. Now Vista is out and you need to upgrade the graphics. What did it cost you?

    PC depreciation here in the UK is about 30% per year. That of Macs is around 15%... my 5 year old iMac 800G4 is still selling on eBay for £380... I paid £750... that's only 10% depreciation/year.

    The PC:

    Lost interest: $32
    Depreciation: $240
    Upgrade: $150 (typical 256MB card)
    Vista upgrade: $160 (Home premium is what most people need)

    So you have a hardware total of $422. If you include the Vista upgrade you hit $582. That is provided you got an XP install CD with your cheap PC. What people who got one of those secure partition restore options on the HDD do I have no idea. Anyway: $422 or $582.

    So what does the Mac cost you? Before I start let me explain that I am trying to save you money. An experienced PC buyer will know a few ruses to save money there. With regard to Macs, this is how you do it.

    The refurbished store is an option. You get a full 1 year warrantee but no special deals, education discount or the original box. I find that the original box helps sell it when you need to. Anyway, the refurbished store will offer you anything from 15% to 35% discount. A 15% refurbished discount isn't worth it because the higher education discount is 12%. Anyone who knows anyone in University can get that... just buy in their name... the warranty is transferable.

    It is often the case if you buy from the refurbished store with anything over a 20% discount your Mac at the end of the year will sell for what you paid for it. Yes I did say that. I have done that twice with iBooks.

    Cost to upgrade? Just the lost interest in the bank: $40 on a $999 MacBook

    But I like the original box. So sometimes I buy in the Fall/Autumn.... when the free iPod offer is on. I buy with the 12% higher education discount and I eBay the iPod. I get £65 for it. A year later, a month before the warrantee expires on my Mac (MacBook or iMac) I sell it on eBay. It sells for about 17% less than the purchase price. Here are some figures in UK pounds as I know these to be correct:

    MacBook 2.0GHz £879 - with Higher Ed discount £755 minus the money back from the sold iPod £690

    Value at end of year £720
    Lost interest from the Bank: £30

    Cost to you to upgrade? £0!

    So, who has the blind spot? Apple or the geeks who keep claiming that Macs cost more than PCs? These are the real figures I have paid over the last 7 years. Before the iPods there were printer deals. Before eBay I sold things in London through Loot.com

    I don't just upgrade the graphics for $422 or the OS for another $159, I get new iLife apps, the latest OS, entirely new hardware and an full 1 year warranty on some pretty smart hardware... and I get it for nothing more than the effort of selling a Mac and an iPod. Here in London, through Loot that has never taken more than a single free ad. As for upgrading the HDD I use a Wiebetech firewire dock. You can buy a USB 2 to IDE/SATA cable from NewerTech for $25... cheaper still on eBay.

    Now perhaps it's me that has the blind-spot, so could one of those people who keeps complaining that Macs are expensive please explain why I should think the PC a good deal?
  • by thefinite ( 563510 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @12:09PM (#17949084)
    Part of your comment reflects my experience with switchers. Many of them want to keep doing things the hard way. Installing an application by drag and drop just doesn't feel right when you have spent your computing life running installer programs. (Ditto for uninstalling, "I can just drag it to the trash!?!?! Are you crazy? What about the registry?")

    Network settings, burning files to CD, and the list goes on. Between that and learning new keyboard shortcuts, most people have to learn new habits--usually a simpler way of doing things--but then they are hooked. The same appears to be true of the guy who wrote this article.
  • by American Infidel ( 1061660 ) on Friday February 09, 2007 @01:19PM (#17950264)

    First I have two monitors, so a built in monitor computer is out.

    I'm sorry, I've missed a step. The current iMacs have a connector for an external monitor. Do you mean that you need both monitors to be better than any iMac's built-in panel?

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