Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Windows Operating Systems Software Microsoft

MS Says Vista Selling At Twice XP's Pace 322

Posted by kdawson
from the monopoly-will-do-that dept.
Several readers made us aware that Microsoft said today that it sold more than 20 million Windows Vista licenses in the first month after the OS's general debut on January 30. This compares to 17 million licenses of XP sold in the first two months after its release. (Just a coincidence the announcement came out a day after this community's speculation, surely.) Most of the coverage of this story, picked up from Reuters, looks like it follows an MS press release. The Associated Press dug deeper, noting that since XP's release the overall PC market has grown by almost a factor of 2, so it would be a surprise if Vista didn't do twice as well: "...51 million PCs were sold to consumers worldwide in 2002; this year... 96 million consumers will buy a computer." Also, Microsoft's 20 million figure includes the backlog of upgrade coupons bundled with XP computers sold since last October.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

MS Says Vista Selling At Twice XP's Pace

Comments Filter:
  • Misleading (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rackhamh (217889) on Monday March 26, 2007 @08:49PM (#18495745)
    But given that the personal computer market has nearly doubled since XP launched, Vista sales "probably should be more," said Michael Silver, vice president of research at Gartner, a technology research group.

    In summary: computer sales up; consumers forced to adopt Vista. Microsoft chuckles gleefully.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by QuantumG (50515)
      Nah, consumers have already rationalised their purchase of Vista. Even XP-loyal geeks have downgraded their opinion to "I guess it has some features I'd like on XP" and are seriously considering upgrading.

      • Re:Misleading (Score:5, Insightful)

        by rackhamh (217889) on Monday March 26, 2007 @08:57PM (#18495845)
        Consumers don't have to rationalize buying Vista. If they're buying a new computer, they don't have a choice. A telling quote from the article:

        Microsoft declined to break out the number of Vista copies sold at retail, though it has said in the past that 80 percent of Windows revenue comes from sales to PC makers.

        Eventually we'll all (those of us running Windows) upgrade, but my sense of things right now is that most XP users are waiting until software availability forces the upgrade.
        • Re:Misleading (Score:4, Insightful)

          by QuantumG (50515) <qg@biodome.org> on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:03PM (#18495873) Homepage Journal
          Yes, my point was simply that there are people out there who are willingly upgrading and some of them are even geeks.
        • Re:Misleading (Score:5, Insightful)

          by spisska (796395) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:18PM (#18496001)

          Consumers don't have to rationalize buying Vista. If they're buying a new computer, they don't have a choice. A telling quote from the article:

          "Microsoft declined to break out the number of Vista copies sold at retail, though it has said in the past that 80 percent of Windows revenue comes from sales to PC makers."

          What's more is that the figures suggest that 20 million copies of Vista are currenty being used, rather than having been shipped to OEMs and sitting on shelves. I would suspect that the actual number of Vista licenses in the wild are substantially lower, to the point of embarassment for Microsoft.

          Personally, I've bought my last Microsoft license. At the same time I realize that Business runs on Microsoft, Business accounts for the lion's share of Microsoft licenses, and I've yet to see Business in general, or any single business in particular, leaping towards Vista. Most, including the one I work for, are waiting until it is absolutely necessary (certainly not before SP1) before even contemplating a widespread rollout.

          The numbers are nonsense and reflective only of PCs in the pipeline (or whatever other figures can be found in Redmond-area proctological exams), not in deployment. In 12 months, Vista will be unavoidable but for now it is a non factor. As far as Business goes, it's still more important to make sure your widget works with MS Windows 2000 than with Vista.

          • Re:Misleading (Score:5, Interesting)

            by SpecTheIntro (951219) <spectheintro@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:50PM (#18496265)

            In 12 months, Vista will be unavoidable but for now it is a non factor.

            I wouldn't even give them that. Personally, I don't plan on upgrading any of the computers I administer until at least 18 months out. I've got a test machine running Vista Ultimate, and while I'm actually a fan of the features Vista introduces, it will be an absolute nightmare to roll this out to my users, especially since (currently) Vista and Server 2003 don't always see eye-to-eye. Microsoft is just trying to convince people that Vista is doing well, and I understand that, but any business that tries to upgrade any time soon is asking for a world of hurt.

            • by saskboy (600063)
              I don't even believe Microsoft's numbers. I know very few people who have bought new computers recently, and many who say they are avoiding Vista [and that isn't only the people I've advised against upgrading]. Maybe my region of the country is just not as into new computers as some parts of the world though?
              • Re:Misleading (Score:5, Interesting)

                by PopeRatzo (965947) * on Monday March 26, 2007 @11:15PM (#18496935) Homepage Journal
                I agree. I absolutely do not believe Microsoft's numbers. I remember quite clearly the rollout of XP and the major organizations that upgraded pretty quickly, plus the general interest in the enthusiast community. Neither is the case with XP. Maybe a lot of those numbers are like me, who got a copy of Vista Home Premium with a new computer, and after a few hours of frustrated wrestling with it, simply formatted the hard disk and installed my trusty copy of XP Pro SP2. I imagine that since I paid for an OEM copy of Vista, they can count me as a purchaser, although I won't touch it at least until Service Pack 2 AND Microsoft announces they are taking all the DRM out of Vista. Until then, I will not use it or recommend it.
                • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                  by Adambomb (118938) *

                  my trusty copy of XP Pro SP2
                  Ah relativity, you can make anything worthy of trust =)
          • by Plutonite (999141)
            You're only partially correct. I'm not about to upgrade to Vista unless I absolutely must do so due to hardware/software compatibility - I use windows for convenience, and there is very little that I need to change. Vista will be the new worm/virus target, and XP has matured after years of exploits to a situation where you are reasonably secure with the latest updates. In short, I want peace of mind like many others, and the "hot new interface" is not going to move me very much, no matter how much Microsoft
        • by uradu (10768)
          It's interesting to observe the "brand-name" computer sellers: all the majors suddenly only provide Vista drivers and support for their new machines. Not even a mention of XP (or God forbid, 2000) on Gateway's or HP's websites. Haven't checked Dell, but I wouldn't be surprised to find the same there.
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by a_nonamiss (743253)
            I just purchased an Acer laptop, Vista Ready of course, for an employee of my company, and we have a volume license for XP. Of course my first action was to wipe the laptop and install XP, as none of our applications support Vista yet. Well, wouldn't you know, there exist NO drivers for this laptop anywhere on Acer's site. I called tech support to tell them that I want to install XP, and they were like "You want to do what now?" They had apparently never heard of anyone wanting to install XP on a Vista Read
        • Re:Misleading (Score:5, Interesting)

          by jejones (115979) on Monday March 26, 2007 @11:28PM (#18497023) Journal
          >Consumers don't have to rationalize buying Vista. If they're buying a new computer, they don't have a choice.

          Well... a week ago, an acquaintance said she was finally upgrading her computer (from one running Windows 98, with 64 Mbytes of RAM!), and wanted some advice, because she'd heard bad things about Vista. She'd heard of Linux, but had bought the line that one had to be a "nerd" to use it, so she was hoping to buy a computer with Windows XP; I didn't try to convince her otherwise. I did tell her that now that Vista has been released for the general public, basically any computer running Windows she buys now will have Vista on it. Based on that, she said a Macintosh was looking better and better, so I expect that's what she'll end up with.

          Of course, that's a lousy sample size, but I'm heartened somewhat that an average computer user is leery of moving to Vista.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by PitaBred (632671)
            Not only leery of Vista, but actively moving to a competitor. Anything to break MS's stranglehold on the web and networking. I don't give two shits what systems people use, as long as I can communicate with them while using what I want to use, which just isn't possible with the current dictatorial monoculture built on the back of Windows/Internet Explorer/Office.
      • Nah, consumers have already rationalised their purchase of Vista. Even XP-loyal geeks have downgraded their opinion to "I guess it has some features I'd like on XP" and are seriously considering upgrading.

        If by "consumer" you mean big box store shelf, you are correct. I'm not sure anyone with an IQ better than a shelf is really thinking like M$ wishes they were thinking, especially when they can't rationally name any real features. As people also noted [slashdot.org] M$ is stuffing the channels to make it look like an

      • Re:Misleading (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Teddy Beartuzzi (727169) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @02:06AM (#18498081) Journal
        And exactly what features would that be? Seriously.

        I've been using Vista for a few weeks now, came with my new laptop. There's been a single thing where I've thought "Hey, that's new, and really useful". And that's the search in the start menu. Everything else is just meh, or just a new face on an old item.

        The taskbar preview is a perfect example. I move my mouse down to the taskbar to click on a folder, and a little thumbnail appears. A *useless* thumbnail. It doesn't do anything, or provide any more info than the folder icon and it's name did. It's just miscellaneous fluff. Same thing for the flip 3d thing. I don't even use it, just alt-tab the same as I've always done. Oooh, the start menu, that's different, it's now a circle instead of an elongated oval. Woohoo. Except it no longer scrolls in a useful manner. Until I turn off the new appearance, which makes the one useful thing disappear (the search). The sidebar? It's the same old stuff just on the side, instead of down at the bottom in the tray. A couple of new games.

        And in exchange for these few new things, I get UAC that harasses me 20 times a day every time I do anything like open a folder or install a program. There's really nothing here, it's the emperors new clothes. The same old XP in a new face to hide it.

        Literally, I have *zero* desire to install it on my other computer that came with XP.
        • Re:Misleading (Score:4, Interesting)

          by HawkingMattress (588824) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @07:58AM (#18499575)
          The taskbar preview is a perfect example. I move my mouse down to the taskbar to click on a folder, and a little thumbnail appears. A *useless* thumbnail. It doesn't do anything

          I disagree, did you see that it's not just a thumbnail but the actual live window ? (try it with a video...) It can be usefull for those tasks you want to keep an eye on. For example say you're burning a cd and copying some files. With the preview you just need to hover your mouse on the taskbar icon to see how the progress is going, instead of maximizing the window, checking, and reminimize... A little detail yes but vista is full of those little neat things. But i agree about flip3d, they could have make something really more useful if they took the time to.

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by Z0mb1eman (629653)
          Oooh, the start menu, that's different, it's now a circle instead of an elongated oval.

          My start menu is still a rectangle, you insensitive clod!
    • Re:Misleading (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jovetoo (629494) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:04PM (#18495893) Journal
      Not quite... computer sales up, lots of Vista freebie coupons lying around and still only 20 million copies? Vista is not going well and as far as I can tell Microsoft is doing everything it can to prop up the numbers. Two different discount programs, now this misleading press release. I don't think Microsoft has much reason to be chuckling at all...
      • by rackhamh (217889)
        I don't think Microsoft has much reason to be chuckling at all...

        They're increasing their install base for Vista. Eventually that will translate into forced upgrades for everyone else. They have plenty to be happy about -- it's just not as immediate as they might wish for.
    • by EmbeddedJanitor (597831) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:04PM (#18495897)
      Anybody that didn't buy a Vista license would, most likely, have bought an XP license if Vista dis not exist. In other words, Vista has not really increased MS revenues.

      The big sell is to MS shareholders. Somehow MS must convince the shareholders that the $5bn spent on Vista is going to be a worthwhile investment.

      • I'm not an expert on OS adoption, but I imagine it working out something like this:

        1) Microsoft pushes Vista onto all new machines sold, creating an install base
        2) Developers start creating applications targeted at the install base. Some of these applications are Vista-only. Some of these applications are also created by Microsoft themselves, such as new versions of Office, etc.
        3) Motivated by a desire to run the Vista-only applications, users upgrade from XP to Vista.

        It seems that simply replacing XP wit
        • by EmbeddedJanitor (597831) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:24PM (#18496063)
          I am looking to buy a MS-based computer for development (I normally use Linux). I'm looking for an XP computer, not a Vista one. The reason: The Microsoft software I want to run does not run on Vista, only on XP!
          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by Dan_Bercell (826965)
            not hard to get. XP will be available on most business computers till the end of summer if not till the end of the year.
        • by yuna49 (905461)
          Aside from games, what applications do you think will be "Vista-only?" Are there many "XP-only" applications, or will most of them also run on Windows 2000? What features in Vista make for a better word processor, spreadsheet, browser, or email client?

          My bet is that many developers will avoid making anything Vista-only for a long time to come, since that would just reduce the potential market for their software.
      • Anybody that didn't buy a Vista license would, most likely, have bought an XP license if Vista did not exist.

        In other words, they would not be in the market for OSX or Linux.

        Vista has not really increased MS revenues. MS must convince the shareholders that the $5bn spent on Vista is going to be a worthwhile investment

        Microsoft, debt-free, and with quarterly revenues of $14 billion dollars can afford to take the long view - and the short-term hit from the free upgrade coupons still around for Vista.

    • Exactly! (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      > In summary: computer sales up; consumers forced to adopt Vista. Microsoft chuckles gleefully.

      [RANT SIZE="VERY LONG"]
      Well, at least one of the people I know was actually waiting for Vista to come out (against my advice... but his old computer was Windows ME, so he may be a Microsoft masochist). Of course, he promptly had me out there attempting to fix it because, although it was brand new, it didn't work very well. A few things were just a matter of moving things around: the start menu search is nice
  • MS Says Vista Selling At Twice XP's Pace ... The Associated Press dug deeper, noting that since XP's release the overall PC market has grown by almost a factor of 2, so it would be a surprise if Vista didn't do twice as well

    Well, then surprise! There's no surprise!
  • Spelling.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26, 2007 @08:54PM (#18495801)
    MS Says Vista Selling At Twice XP's Price

    There. Fixed that for you.
  • by Runefox (905204) on Monday March 26, 2007 @08:58PM (#18495855) Homepage

    this year... 96 million consumers will buy a computer.


    Of course they are! People are fed up with cleaning spyware off their machines, to the point of buying a new one when the old one crashes. It's only in the very recent past (actually, mostly within XP's lifetime) that spyware's become such a menace, after all.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by lcohiomatty86 (985176)
      there should be more information out there pertaining to how to do accurate data backups and hard drive imaging, where a customer can easily revert their hard drive back to a "clean" state within minutes if somehting goes wrong, and being able to restore their my documents folder as well, making getting a clean fast computer easy again, instead of having to give microsoft MORE MONEY for a CRAPPY PRODUCT!
    • Well a lot of people don't even know they have spyware they just think it is running slow. So when their computer starts running slow it must mean that it is time for a new system. Not a reinstall of the OS and about a half a day of running updates.
    • by westlake (615356)
      Of course they are! People are fed up with cleaning spyware off their machines, to the point of buying a new one when the old one crashes.

      This has become the new Slashdot mantra.

      But I have to tell that in this upscale suburb the last Windows PC I saw at the curb for pick-up was a crapped-out Packard Bell 486.

      • Considering the price of a new PC, compared with the average expendable income of the average segment of the population from which the media derives its content for this topic, are you surprised?
  • I'm willing to bet that they're counting all the upgrade coupons as "sales" as well.

    Like how they count their MS CRM software.

    Basically anyone who has an Action Pack is counted as an MS CRM user.
  • by jellomizer (103300) * on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:03PM (#18495883)
    Well we Had 95, 98 (in 1995, 1998 respectfully) 2000 / ME in 1999,2000 or so. Then XP in 2001, Then Vista in 2007. Well I would expect that people would be wanting a new version. People with 2000 or ME are at a point now they really need an upgrade. With 95 and 98 no longer supported people may be looking for a new version now.

    When XP was released People had Windows 2000 and to a lesser extent ME that is good enough. So no need to upgrade. But with the long time for upgrades people with XP when they got a system in 2001 are now due for an upgrade.
    • by kextyn (961845) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:14PM (#18495963)
      Wait a minute. Did you just say Me was "good enough"?! Are you nuts?

      XP was a pretty big improvement over what was available prior to it. Most home users were running 98 or Me. The jump from 98/Me to XP was much greater than XP to Vista in my mind.
    • by Technician (215283) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @12:41AM (#18497587)
      People with 2000 or ME are at a point now they really need an upgrade. With 95 and 98 no longer supported people may be looking for a new version now.

      And I'm really glad someone showed me Ubuntu. 2 Windows 98 machines and 1 Windows 2000 machine are now running Ubuntu. It's a major upgrade. No more hunting for drivers to make a thumb drive work. Power Point presentations display properly. There is lots of neat desktop toys. DVD support is better. CD ripping and burning is better. Photo editing and video editing is easy without buying any new software. The SIP phone which will also work with MS Netmeeting is a nice touch. The chat program which can use several services without an ad window is great.

      Since I've found the new upgrade, I've been sharing it and showing it off. The new 3d desktop toys are lots of fun. Some people assumed I was running Vista, and wanted to see the new OS, so I let them.. Lots of fun.

      In short, It's the applications stupid. A general lack of malware goes a long way.
  • if it came with XP, so I could run all the software I want to use.
    • by Taimat (944976) on Monday March 26, 2007 @10:36PM (#18496627)
      If you buy Vista Business, or Ultimate - you have downgrade rights to install XP Pro... This is what I am doing at my office. Every new PC that comes in with Vista - wiped and XP installed. Call up MS licensing, and they generate a key for you when you tell them you are downgrading. Perfectly legal and in the eula. This way, when we finally HAVE to go to vista, the licenses are ready and waiting, since the PCs came with them.
  • How many copies of Vista have sold at retail? I have seen relatively few problems with OEM installs of Vista on new desktops, but lots of little compatibility problems upgrading a system from XP to Vista (even if doing a clean install). I'd say that isn't roughly comparable to the 98 to 2000 transition.

  • In other news... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by HungWeiLo (250320)
    The 2007 Toyota Camry is outselling the 2001 Toyota Camry. Film at 11.
    • by AusIV (950840)
      No, other news would be 2007 Toyota Camry is selling better than the 2001 Toyota Camry did. The point here is that Vista is selling better than XP did when it came out. That's an interesting spin though, since sales are 15% higher in a market that has nearly doubled in size.
  • well (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mastershake_phd (1050150) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:09PM (#18495937) Homepage
    If Windows sales have doubled because the PC market has doubled. Should Linux and Mac sales have also doubled?
    • Re:well (Score:4, Informative)

      by Technician (215283) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @01:30AM (#18497885)
      Should Linux and Mac sales have also doubled?

      Um they have, but in the last couple months, not over 6 years ago sales figures..

      Mac sales... From the financual page..
      http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AAPL&annual [yahoo.com]

      Income Sept 30 2006 19,315,000 All numbers in thousands.
      Income Sept 24 2005 13,931,000
      Income Sept 25 2004 8,279,000

      In two years from 2004 to 2006 the income went from 8 Billion to 19 Billion. It's not all iPod and iTunes sales.

      Picking just one Lunux distro which is popular..
      http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2276320 [ubuntuforums.org]

      Since there isn't any real sales figures, I thought I would go to see if the online chatter is increasing. The Ubuntu forum is growing rapidly. "We register over 14,000 new accounts each month"

      If you want a pretty graph of Linux installed base from 2000-2006, take a look here.
      http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/6065/1/ screenshot3524/ [linuxplanet.com]

      A casual glance seems to indicate more than a doubling of the 2000 installed base figure.

      Here is what a market analist has to say;
      http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS2014 7206 [idc.com]

      "IDC offers the following recommendations for services providers:

      Open source will become business as usual in two to three years, so act today and create direct open source services offerings and embed open source in your solutions where you can"

      and

      "The study also reveals that open source is moving up on the investment agenda of companies worldwide, as services providers (mostly services arms of technology companies) have formalized support, training, and certification services to encourage adoption of open source (principally Linux) on their products. As open source software goes mainstream, IDC finds that services vendors must further develop open source capabilities in order to meet their clients' needs and attract new customers."

  • 20 million - 2 (Score:5, Informative)

    by NullProg (70833) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:11PM (#18495947) Homepage Journal
    Two brand new Dell Dimension Workstations ($1200 each) came into our office last week. One remimaged to XP (SP2) because office user said Vista (Pro) was slower than crap. The other was regulated to the lab for dual-boot Redhat/SuSE client testing. Vista wiped clean off it.

    What Microsofts Marketing Machine states and what users do are two different things.

    Enjoy,
    • by loftwyr (36717)
      Add to that all of the upgrade coupons gleefully thrown away on receipt plus those who were scrubbed and replaced with Linux like my laptop.

      Hopefully they've sold enough to pay for Bill Gates retirement party.
      • by westlake (615356)
        Add to that all of the upgrade coupons gleefully thrown away on receipt plus those who were scrubbed and replaced with Linux like my laptop.

        give me a break.

        in a market that is 95% Windows the guy who does his Christmas shopping at Dell doesn't toss the coupon worth a $150 software upgrade for his new Vista-rated system.

      • Add to that all of the upgrade coupons gleefully thrown away on receipt plus those who were scrubbed and replaced with Linux like my laptop.
        So that's -3 then.
      • by shoolz (752000)
        Instead of gleefully throwing them away, could you please send them to me so I can sell them on eBay?

        Thanks.
    • Re:20 million - 2 (Score:4, Insightful)

      by eebra82 (907996) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:25PM (#18496079) Homepage
      What Microsofts Marketing Machine states and what users do are two different things.

      Not really. The announcement Microsoft sent out regards to sales, not the amount of users compared to XP to a given date.

      While I'm sure a lot of people remove Vista, a lot of people did when they first got hold of XP too.
    • 20 million - 2 + 2 (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Hektor_Troy (262592)
      You were obviously dumb enough not to get a refund on Vista (or exchange its license for XP), so to the bean counters, they've made two sales on you. And it gets better, because they will save on the support costs for your Redhat machine.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Strudelkugel (594414) *

      One remimaged to XP (SP2) because office user said Vista (Pro) was slower than crap.

      Interesting. I installed Vista Business on box with a 1.5Ghz P4 and 768M RAM. The MB is about six years old. It runs just fine. If your user says Vista is slow on a $1200 new Dell, something must be wrong with the hardware, or maybe the user just decided he or she didn't like it for some reason.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        It's all about RAM. After some experimenting, I've found that Vista runs fine even on 1Ghz CPUs (quite likely even slower ones, just didn't have one to check) as long as you have more than 512Mb RAM.
    • It's reminding me of the AOL trial disk carpet bombing. I guess by the same standard AOL could claim 25 billion AOL customers.
    • by yagu (721525) *

      One remimaged to XP (SP2) because office user said Vista (Pro) was slower than crap. The other was regulated to the lab for dual-boot Redhat/SuSE client testing.

      Shoulda relegated the one to the lab for dual-boot.

    • Poor Microsoft. Lots of people bought new PCs that came with Vista and aren't using it. Poor, poor Microsoft. All that money without having even provided anyone with anything of value. And you know what really sucks for them? A whole lot of those people who bought their computer with Vista and installed XP instead? They'll probably end up buying another copy of Vista in a couple years because they don't realize or remember that they have the right to a license of Vista.

      Poor, poor Microsoft.

  • I've been looking to buy a desktop with an AMD Athlon X2 5000+ and 2 gigs or RAM. It seems I can buy one with Vista much cheaper than I can (still) find one with XP Pro.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Shados (741919)
      Careful to compare apples with apples though. Most computers loaded with Vista are loaded with Vista Home Premium: Vista Business is the equivalent of Pro, and is the price Win XP Pro was. Home Premium is cheaper.
  • Tag: Bullshit (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ewhac (5844) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:17PM (#18495989) Homepage Journal
    The telling comment is here:

    20 million figure includes the backlog of upgrade coupons bundled with XP computers sold since last October.

    So Microsoft isn't quoting figures for sales spanning two months, but rather for more than five months, including at least three months of "pre-sales" in the form of coupons which likely may never be redeemed. If the coupon is never redeemed, then it can't be counted as a Vista sale, since Vista was never installed.

    More FUD from the masters. Which frankly doesn't surprise me. Without apps irrevocably tied to Vista, there's no impetus to "upgrade," and people will stay with XP. Microsoft is clearly desperate to make Vista appear to have a larger installed base than it does so that ISVs will commit to it.

    Schwab

  • by Proudrooster (580120) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:19PM (#18496011) Homepage
    Of course they are selling more. If you want XP with a new system from one of the PC manufacturers like DELL, it will cost you $79 for XP or you can have VISTA for FREE!

    I don't know anyone in my circle that has purchased VISTA. Personally, I am holding off for about (3) years until all the DRM and hardware issues are all worked out. I can't see any compelling reason to move to VISTA and if I do buy a new system with it pre-loaded for FREE, I will move that system to dual boot Linux/XP.
  • by tgatliff (311583) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:24PM (#18496067)
    I guarantee you that this was planned, and they are stuffing their product chain to provide these numbers. Basically for anyone who does not understand the process, it simply means that when they stock vendors, they are counting these items as "sold". This is a very common tactic, and was exactly what they did with the Zune... Meaning they have a history of using this manipulation tactic...

    Seeing as they did not say they were NOT doing this, I can assure you that they are. Dont believe me? Well, lets see when their quarterly report comes out... I will bet almost anything that it will be uneventful... :-)

    • by shoolz (752000)
      I agree with your sentiment, but I assure you that the message-makers at MS are not going to go to so much trouble as to actually stuff the supply-chain with unused copies of Vista so they can make their outlandish claims. We are geeks... we work with facts... marketers are marketers... they work with perceived facts.

      A VP of Marketing I used to work with used to routinely falsify the number of users of our software in order to appear more attractive to potential customers and potential investors.

      A si
  • Of those people ordering the upgrade, alot are still waiting for it and don't actually have their upgrade yet. Does that really count as a sale? Also, I have to wonder how many returns have actually been subtracted from those numbers and pre-sales figures to pump up those numbers... especially when they are having to discount VISTA to get people to buy it when driver support isn't there, software support isn't there and VISTA still has mysterious stalls, crashes and slow downs.
  • by Rachel Lucid (964267) on Monday March 26, 2007 @09:36PM (#18496169) Homepage Journal
    My Dad's new 'Vista-Ready' machine came with XP, and we're KEEPING it on XP precisely because this this thing is a graphical dream on it. It's got an nVidia card, sweet processors, ability to support two 22" widescreen monitors... all for under $1000, because it's 'merely' an XP machine, albeit a Vista-capable one.

    If this is their idea of 'Vista-Capable', why would I want to go to an operating system where these awesome specs are merely ADEQUATE?
  • (Just a coincidence the announcement came out a day after this community's speculation, surely.)

    I realize that "this community" like any other has a need for self-worth, but was this petty, self-important comment necessary at all?

    If 96 million PCs are going to be sold in 2007, I'm pretty sure 95 million of them (or thereabouts) will have Vista installed. It's called inertia (if nothing else), and it's very difficult to stop. Ina few years, maybe. Not today though.

  • by no-body (127863)
    doesn't change that Vista sucks!

    I haven't tweaked it, and I refuse to, voluntarily - so that's mostly out of the box:
    • Up error in file browser to move one directory level up is missing. Only previous arrow seems to work.
    • Accessing network shares takes ages, if they come up at all - probably needs to read every file encountered on the way to display it's content on mouseover.
    • Opening muliple tabs in IE _forces_ you to open another window, if it comes from another domain = counterproductive to tabbing.
  • have just started migrating their NT4.0 servers to Win2K.... thousands of them. One of my nephews is doing the troublesome mailbox migration, sitting in Bangalore.

    I think MS counts corporate adoption through their so-called "Enterprise Service Agreements" as fresh sales... unless Corporates decide to junk all their existing hardware and invest in huge bloated pigs, Vista will not tak off. The barriers for Linux in the enterprise are crumbling day by day....

    I say Linux adoption is happening at much more than
  • by GFree (853379) on Monday March 26, 2007 @10:09PM (#18496411)
    Not all new PCs are capable of running Vista with anything even remotely close to decent performance.

    A couple of weeks ago I got my mum a fairly low-end notebook (1.73GHz, 512MB RAM, 40GB HD). Since she's not exactly much of a power user and only wanted to browse the web, extract pics from her camera and occasionally check her email, her needs were easy to satisfy with a cheaper computer. Only problem was, this notebook (like EVERY SINGLE ONE in the store) was pre-installed with Vista. I figured, hey, if they're running Vista on a brand-new PC then surely the manufacturer had chosen a decent configuration to ensure decent performance. Damn I was so naive.

    It was slow to boot, slow to shutdown/hibernate, slow to run programs on, full of useless pre-installed crap (e.g. Norton with 30-day subscription). After Vista did some weird shit that caused this new PC to hang with massive non-stop disk accessing, I decided to blow Vista entirely away and stick an old copy of XP with Service Pack 2 on instead. Now, the system is faster to start, faster to shutdown/hibernate, faster to launch software, it has only the software it needs with no crap lying around after an uninstall, much more responsive, plus I freed about 8 GB of a hidden recovery partition. All in all, it was a win for us with absolutely no disadvantages and a shitload of positives. In the future I might even be tempted to install Ubuntu instead, but I won't push my luck just yet. :)

    This shouldn't be particularly surprising I suppose, but I mention it because I was totally shocked how quickly and ruthlessly the manufacturers were in totally abandoning a perfectly-working OS like XP, and sticking Vista as their default setup on hardware that shouldn't have been running it to begin with. It really astounded me just how useful the system was... *without* Vista.
    • by c.r.o.c.o (123083)

      This shouldn't be particularly surprising I suppose, but I mention it because I was totally shocked how quickly and ruthlessly the manufacturers were in totally abandoning a perfectly-working OS like XP, and sticking Vista as their default setup on hardware that shouldn't have been running it to begin with. It really astounded me just how useful the system was... *without* Vista

      I wouldn't be that quick in blaming the manufacturers. One reason is that they need to be competitive, and shipping a 6 year old

      • by GFree (853379)

        When a customer walks into a store what do you think most will ask for?

        If there there for a laptop, they'll ask for a laptop. I'd like to think people care more about the laptop itself than what OS is running on it. I could be wrong; it'd be nice to have the choice however.

        But Microsoft is the main reason. Once Vista shipped, they stopped selling XP to the OEMs. So even if a manufacturer wanted to keep XP on their system, they couldn't.

        Makes sense I suppose. Doncha just love the way MS does business?

  • And the eye candy utterly blows Vista or the Mac OSX out of the water! My stepson has a Vista laptop and he was most impressed by the translucent desktop cube with 3D windows. It isn't just pretty, it is quite practical as well, as you can actually see what is happening on the other desktops at a glance. The price was certainly right, and there is DRM or restrictive EULAs to boot!

  • Vista sales are clearly not doing so well.

    But its no supprise that the MS marking is trying to generate a bandwagon trend.

    Seriously, with more and more large government organization picking up linux and other things advancing with linux, there is a market loss for MS. Apple moved with the flow to go with intel based CPUs and a change in its OS at the core towards a unix base.

    MS days are numbered and they know it. But they don't really know how to deal with it as their business methodology that made MS succe
  • by hacker (14635) <hacker@gnu-designs.com> on Monday March 26, 2007 @10:30PM (#18496585)

    Can it open ODF, Lotus, WordPerfect, etc. formats natively within its own OS or office applications?

    No

    Does it support writing to PDF natively?

    No

    Can it natively play all of my media audio and video formats, including FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, Theora and others?

    No

    Does it support onboard IM clients using standards-compliant protocols (Jabber? irc? Others?)

    No

    Can I use freely available tools to build software on it, and do those tools come with the OS itself?

    No

    Can I read multiple filesystems at the same time on multiple different external and internal media? Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X and other filesystems?

    No

    Can I mount NFS shares to other non-Vista resources with existing, included applications/tools?

    No

    Remind me again what Vista does that my Linux box can't? Oh wait... purty jellybean graphics and melted-crayon menus and icons. Right.

    No thanks, Linux does more, on less resources, at less cost, and is more extensible, secure and updates are MUCH easier to manage.. oh, and I KNOW what's running under the covers, and if I don't, I can go look and see for myself.

  • I am one of those (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kbahey (102895) on Monday March 26, 2007 @10:43PM (#18496673) Homepage
    I bought a Toshiba laptop late November, which came with XP on it, with a free upgrade to Vista (with $25 for shipping).

    The disk was immediately resized, and Kubuntu 6.10 Edgy Eft [baheyeldin.com] was installed on it. Windows XP was never even booted, but kept there "just in case it is needed".

    For the free upgrade, I did all the paperwork for it, paid the shipping fee, and have not received it yet. I don't intend to boot it either, but I ordered it "just in case".

    So, I am counted as an XP user and a Vista user, while I am neither.
  • uh duh george? (Score:2, Insightful)

    Dontcha think thats because its now being shipped on 90% of windows boxes now instead of XP ? And that you cant really buy XP off the shelf anymore ? Gee got to love the spin doctors. Comeon everybody lets jump on the bandwagon and all go buy vista !!!
  • by icepick72 (834363) on Monday March 26, 2007 @11:38PM (#18497123)

    The Associated Press dug deeper, noting that since XP's release the overall PC market has grown by almost a factor of 2, so it would be a surprise if Vista didn't do twice as well:

    Why split hairs about comparative "wellness". Regardless, Microsoft is making a financial killing. If they've sold twice as much Vista then they've sold twice as much Vista no matter what's happening with the PC market. The money is in their pockets and they will continue to be the largest software company because they can keep doing that.
    • I would say that almost all of those sales are to people who would have bought XP if it was available to them. To create the illusion of demand for Vista Microsoft's had to use their pricing agreements with manufacturers to cut off XP as nearly as completely as possible. If I was buying a new computer running Windows today, a hard requirement for it would be that it include XP rather than Vista, and I'm not confident that I could find one.

      By comparison, we were able to buy laptops running 2000 Pro rather than XP for years after XP came out, and XP was still selling better, percentage-wise, than 2000. That's because XP had a reason for existing... it was the retail release of NT5 and replaced the appalling Windows 9x-based Windows Me. People were going out in large numbers and buying XP for computers they already had... not simply getting it as "whatever came with my new computer".

      So, no, Microsoft isn't "making a financial killing". They're selling almost the same number of copies of Windows as they would have if Vista had never shipped.

  • How many of those new computer sales are being done because the existing computers are so choked with spyware, nagware, and malware and botched A/V that they seem broken?

    A computer thats only a few years old is already way more powerfull than most people need...until it gets hijacked. Then the apparent power goes to the floor.

    Of course the pretty computer with 2gigs of ram and a core2 duo looks great in the store. It looks great compared to the perfectly operational hardware at home thats been rendered us
  • by nbritton (823086) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @12:28AM (#18497499)
    Vista release date Nov 8, 2006:    XP release date Oct 25, 2001:
    Vista at < 0.5% Dec 2006           XP at 4%, Nov 2001
    Vista at 0.6% Jan 2007             XP at 6.5%, Dec 2001
    Vista at 1.2% Feb 2007             XP at 9%, Jan 2002

    Can't wait till the Q1 SEC reports come out, ouch!

    sources:
    Google zeitgeist, w3schools, wikipedia
  • No wonder (Score:4, Informative)

    by trawg (308495) on Tuesday March 27, 2007 @03:52AM (#18498541) Homepage
    ... I've been trying to buy a copy of Windows XP here [Brisbane, Australia] for weeks now. Pretty much every single software retail vendor that I've been to just tells me its not possible to buy it any more - they just try to foist a copy of Vista on to me.

    There's a few places I can still get OEM (and a few places that seem to have old copies lying around here and there), but if you're Random McRandalot and listen to what sales people are pitching, you can't get XP any more - so why not try Vista?

"Marriage is like a cage; one sees the birds outside desperate to get in, and those inside desperate to get out." -- Montaigne

Working...