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Weigh In On the OOXML Issue During Live Debate 71

Posted by ScuttleMonkey
from the better-than-daytime-television dept.
lisah writes "Linux.com's Robin 'Roblimo' Miller will moderate a live debate today, Wednesday, December 5 at 1pm US EST (GMT -5), between the GNOME Foundation's press officer Jeff Waugh and fair competition advocate Roy Schestowitz. Both have strong — and opposing — points of view regarding GNOME's involvement with Microsoft's OOXML standard and vehemently defend their positions, so getting them together in the same virtual room ought to prove quite interesting. Although the broadcast will be archived as a podcast and available for free download, you can listen live as it's recorded and also call in to participate and ask questions."
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Weigh In On the OOXML Issue During Live Debate

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  • by cthulu_mt (1124113) on Wednesday December 05, 2007 @08:03AM (#21583899)
    This should be like the youtube debates, only more asinine.
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      This book! (Holds the OOXML standard in his hand)

      Do you believe every word of it?
      • by calebt3 (1098475)
        One book? I decided to actually see how big the standard is one day (6000 pages, right?) It was eight encyclopedias (~750 pages each). I'd rather carry the ODF standard any day.
    • Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)

      by NickCatal (865805)
      That is not possible...

      The Republican Youtube debate caused me to loose what little faith I had in CNN's ability to host a republican debate. It made the entire format look ridiculous (whereas I thought the Democratic one was great)
    • ... for those who can't be bothered to do the maths...
  • Irony (Score:3, Funny)

    by byolinux (535260) * on Wednesday December 05, 2007 @08:06AM (#21583913) Journal
    "Those who do not wish to use proprietary software (Flash, MP3) to hear this conference over the Internet are also invited to use this call-in number. It will be active approximately 10 minutes before the live podcast begins."
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Slashidiot (1179447)
      Yes, it's funny how open source zealots have become something like vegans, and in some places (like linux.com) they have special menus (not so tasty, but good enough). It's like being allergic to mp3.
      • by rubycodez (864176)
        most vegans I know don't eat vegetables take control of their body and make them hear and see things they can't stop. crap like Flash is the opposite of what open source is trying to achieve, but if you want to give control of your computer to those who want to turn it into a 24x7 revenue source you go right ahead
        • most vegans I know don't eat vegetables take control of their body and make them hear and see things they can't stop.

          Did that make sense to you when you wrote it?

          • by bvimo (780026)
            It didn't make much sense to me when I read it, but then I know some fish eating vegans and vegetarians. The vegans claim fish can't feel pain, because they have no central nervous system and the vegetarian hates fish and wants them all to die ASAP, he's quite amusing.
  • ... led me to a page saying "This Account Has Been Suspended" :-)


    Slashdotted already ? Or maybe the Novell boycotter also boycotted the invoices from the webhost ?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 05, 2007 @08:18AM (#21583969)
    "Look, GNOME and Microsoft are both in the business of restricting what users can do with their computers - we just have different approaches. So let's work together!"
  • by cozziewozzie (344246) on Wednesday December 05, 2007 @08:19AM (#21583971)
    Without trying to stir up a flamewar, it is things like this one that bug me, and have always bugged me about the GNOME project. Far more than the technical issues, as the project has clearly been producing a lot of high-quality software.

    I see no reason why a project which was started as a direct response to another project perceived not to be completely Free (which was quite justified at that time) should have anything to do with certifying obfuscated formats made by monopolists or support their proprietary software platforms (see Mono) and pushes by some people within GNOME to make them a central part of the GNOME infrastructure. I don't understand experiments like Eazel, with big industry hotshots coming in to design proper interfaces for the masses who don't understand them, and there are other confusing examples. GNOME was originally a project with a political goal, so I don't understand how its politics have become so bizarre.

    As an external observer who doesn't use much GNOME technology, but values the contributions that the project has done to the Free Software landscape, I have to wonder what the hell some people in there are thinking. I realise that there are many different viewpoints within the GNOME project and that this issue is likely not as grave as some are trying to make it, but there is simply no excuse for supporting OOXML in my eyes. None.
    • by R_Dorothy (1096635) on Wednesday December 05, 2007 @08:31AM (#21584047)

      GNOME was originally a project with a political goal, so I don't understand how its politics have become so bizarre.

      The clue to the second clause lies in the first.

    • by cloricus (691063) on Wednesday December 05, 2007 @08:39AM (#21584107)
      What does it all have to do with GNOME anyway? Why is my desktop of choice even entering into a debate on OOXML. If the chap is supporting OOXML because he happens to think that Microsoft has struck gold in their waste land of creativity then that's fine. However if he (and others) are supporting it in the name of GNOME or its community then some thing really needs to be done to decouple this situation from my desktop.

      I think GNOME is the best thing since sliced bread and I defend its design chioces. I think OOXML has nothing to do with GNOME and therefor I ignore it completely (in this context). What is different between those on this bandwagon and myself?
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by JohnFluxx (413620)
        Doesn't gnumeric, abiword etc come under the umbrella term 'Gnome'? If so, then it is important to work out whether to support OOXML or not.
        • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

          by pembo13 (770295)
          No it doesn't
        • by jhol13 (1087781)
          Yes.

          I think it is more important to (try to) ensure Gnumeric works. So e.g. 1900 should be a leap year and ceiling() function rounds up (towards positive infinity). OOXML defines otherwise, btw.
      • by ultranova (717540)

        I think OOXML has nothing to do with GNOME and therefor I ignore it completely (in this context).

        Of course it does. This is about replacing GConfd with an Excel spreadsheet in OOXML format. The current system is too simple, and doesn't have enough things that can go wrong, so clearly complications need to be introduced.

    • by rucs_hack (784150)
      support their proprietary software platforms (see Mono) and pushes by some people within GNOME

      I thought Mono was an entirely seperate implementation of the technology that wasn't initially compatible with, or related to the microsoft .NET thing in any case.

      Not that I care much, I don't much like all this .NET style stuff anyway, my needs are somewhat simpler. C or Python (or both together, Mmm embedding...) fulfill all of my requirements, and they don't have any platform issues.
    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      BTW, has anyone ever read and tried to understand this:

      http://www.gnome.org/press/releases/ecma-tc45-statement.html [gnome.org]

      I think having read this most of your points just do not stand anymore.
    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by jdub! (24149)
      Of course, the problem with your comments is that the GNOME Foundation **doesn't** contribute to or endorse OOXML... We're drilling Microsoft for documentation, so we can make sure FLOSS products (not just GNOME products) can interoperate with it. In terms of conspiracy theories, that's not very potent. :-)

      There is a very valid point of disagreement: whether engagement will be perceived (or should be perceived) as support, and whether Microsoft will try to do that themselves. I hope that as a community, we
      • I am certainly not one of those KDE fanboys who will jump at every opportunity to berate GNOME, I am simply a bit confused with how certain things have been handled.

        Software freedom is something very important to me, as well as you, and I don't see how supporting an obfuscated, potentially patent-infested format designed not to be interoperable with anything, will do anything other than strengthen the position of the monopolist who is one of the main obstacles for more widespread adoption of Free Software i
        • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

          by jdub! (24149)
          Well, let's deal with these issues:

          I don't see how supporting an obfuscated, potentially patent-infested format designed not to be interoperable with anything, will do anything other than strengthen the position of the monopolist who is one of the main obstacles for more widespread adoption of Free Software in the first place.

          Everything in the software world is patent infested, but in this case the Microsoft Open Specification Promise covers OOXML 1.0. It may not cover future versions, you may not trust the

  • then can we also request a song and dedicate it to someone?

    "Hello, who's that?"
    "Hi Robin, it's Richard"
    "Hello Richard, do you have a question?"
    "Well actually, I wanted to request a song please"
    "Um, I'm sorry Richard, but this isn't that kind of show"
    "Oh, OK then."
    *Hangs up*
    "OK, if anyone has any questions, not song requests, then please call this number..."
  • Ad Hominem (Score:4, Funny)

    by cerberusss (660701) on Wednesday December 05, 2007 @09:08AM (#21584345) Homepage Journal
    I'll be listening in and I'm really hoping for a lively debate with lots of ad hominem attacks.
    Jeff: "... and the document size is excellent!"
    Roy: "Yeah, but tell me one thing: why should we believe someone who cheats on his wife?"
  • sudo aptitude install kdebase

    Where have I been? Living under a rock?!
  • Just what we need, yet more sound and fury, absent any real information. Just two guys who never run out of words, and yet who never really say anything. Waste of time- go watch Springer; it's the same thing, plus chairs will be thrown.
    • Your post reminds me... I haven't been to illwillpress in awhile... has that wacky squirrel gotten out of his slump?
  • TFA says the debate will be hosted at BlogTalkRadio [blogtalkradio.com]. Fine, but WTF is up with the meta tags on that page? Representative samples include:

    • AfroNerd
    • Field Negro
    • smart mobs
    • commercial space flight
    • pornography

    No one says a blog has to stay on-topic, of course, but that's... diverse.

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