Training From America's Army Game Saved a Life

russoc4 writes "Most people who play the United States Army's freeware FPS sit through training simulations so that they may be able to get into the action and rack up some kills. The medic skills learned in the training allow you to heal teammates in the game, but it seems that they also apply in real life situations. According to Wired and the America's Army forums, 'a North Carolina man who saw an SUV flip and roll on a highway last November was able to provide medical aid to the victims with skills he learned from the America's Army.'" See? We learn things from videogames! Feign Death works sometimes, too.

Re:Lawsuits?

[MBraynard]

In the US - and elsewhere - most people have no clue how to help a car accident victim and any attempt by an untrained individual to help is invariably counter-productive.

The best thing to do is to stop, observe, and call 911. Trying to do anything else in a car accident situation is almost always going to cause more harm than good.

And in the US, most states have good samaritan laws so that if you are acting in good faith, you are not liable. A few places have laws that compel you to render assistance as well, but they are normally only enforced on TV shows like Seinfeld.

Depends on the state

[Lt.Hawkins]

We have Good Samaritan laws that shield good samaritans acting in good faith from lawsuits.

Re:WTF?

[MicktheMech]

The training missions to be able to play as a medic are simulated first aid lectures. They have nothing to do with gameplay itself. It's an illustrated presentation and goes through things like how to dress a wound. Having gone through them, this news does make sense. I have to say that the AA training gave me a much better idea about how to approach somebody in shock than I knew before. I can only assume that the lessons are accurate.

Qualifying as a Medic

[Jeremy Erwin]

For those of you who haven't played AA, Medic Training consists of walking into a classroom, sitting down, looking at the screen, and listening to a lecture. Then you take a multiple choice exam. So, there's a real possibility of learning something.

Re:Don't try this at home

[schnikies79]

It normally applies if you are certified in First Aid/CPR/AED.

There are limits to what a non-certified person can do. At least thats I'm taught when I get re-certified every year, that it will prevent you from being sued under the good samaritan law, in Indiana at least.

Re:Depends on the state

[xigxag]

In the US, anybody can be sued, and probably will be sued if their actions may in any way have contributed to someone's death. Good Samaritan laws only mean that after they've gone through the expense and humiliation of defending themselves, if a jury finds that they acted in good faith, they can't be held liable. N.B., outside of North America, Good Samaritan laws [wikipedia.org] usually denote an affirmative responsibility to assist someone in need in an emergency situation (as well as the pursuant lack of liability therefrom).

Re:Lawsuits?

[dschl]

In the US - and elsewhere - most people have no clue how to help a car accident victim and any attempt by an untrained individual to help is invariably counter-productive. The best thing to do is to stop, observe, and call 911. Trying to do anything else in a car accident situation is almost always going to cause more harm than good.

That is so wrong that I am almost speechless (luckily I can still type). The skills you learn in a basic (one day) first aid course can make a huge difference as those courses train you to:

• Assess the incident scene and hazards - is it safe to help / is further harm going to take place to the patients
• Ensure that the victim does not move - that can cause more injury, especially in a crash where spinal trauma is expected, such as any vehicle collision. They may also be able to stabilize the person to prevent accidental movement.
• Check vital signs and if airway, breathing or circulation is not present, clear the airway / perform artificial repsiration / CPR as necessary.
• Manage a major bleed

The above isn't as much care as a paramedic or hospital can provide, but good initial response is critical for the safety and health of the victim. If your airway is blocked and you are not breathing, you're facing brain damage within 5 minutes. If you get moved improperly when you have a spinal injury, you're more likely to end up in a wheelchair.

I spent 3 years as a volunteer ski patroller, and 3 years as a volunteer firefighter for a department which averaged a few first medical response calls a week. Sure, I've received a lot more training in the past than a one day course can provide - just my spinal management ticket alone took me a weekend. However, anyone with a recent one day first aid training course can be ready to stop a major bleed, apply CPR, and monitor vital signs so that paramedics know if the victim's condition is deteriorating. Most importantly of all, a trained individual can prevent some stupid and misguided untrained know-it-all (and many such idiots exist) from doing something stupid such as improperly moving a patient with a potential spinal injury, etc.

I strongly believe that everyone should at least have a basic level of first aid training, and carry a small first aid kit in their cars. I carry a lot more than a basic kit, but it provides me a higher level of comfort knowing that I'll have both the tools and the training that I need in event of an emergency. There is nothing sadder to hear than the story of parents whose child died from an incident that basic first aid training could have managed, but they either stood by helplessly, or even worse, exacerbated the situation with their improper efforts to help their child.

Leave it to the pros except for immediate danger

[SuperBanana]

Paxton Galvanek pulled one of the passengers out of the smoking car, then found another bleeding heavily from his hand where his fingers had been lost during the crash.

A very, very VERY important rule regarding assisting someone who is injured, and this applies to bike, pedestrian vs. car, car vs. car, and motorcycle accidents:

Unless someone's life is in IMMEDIATE danger, do not move them, especially if they are unconscious. Immediate danger means the car is on fire, for example, AND unconscious. If the are in immediate danger but conscious, ASSIST them (ie, help open the door or smash the window, cut the belt, etc but let them move themselves. If they are in no danger but conscious, encourage them to LIE STILL; shock keeps them from feeling injuries. Leave everything you can to those trained in what to do.

For example, the first thing bystanders LOVE to do is rip off a motorcyclist's helmet. Helmets are pretty snug and this causes a lot of pull on their neck/spine. If they've' got a neck/back injury, you can turn them from "I'll walk in a few weeks after an operation" to "I'll be in a wheelchair the rest of my life because you ripped apart my spinal cord trying to be a hero." The rule for helmets is simple: if they're breathing, it stays on. If they stop breathing, that takes priority. Some motorcycle riders are now installing inflatable bladders that harmlessly lift the helmet off their head and have a blood-pressure-cuff inflator attachment for the crew to use, and some ambulances are equipping themselves with the version that can be slipped up into the helmet.

Many riders put labels on their helmets that say "DO NOT REMOVE MY HELMET UNLESS I HAVE STOPPED BREATHING" because all of the idiot bystanders who think it's important to do.

Also: fire extinguishers are meant to be used to save people, not save cars. If you have someone trying to get out of a car that has a small fire in the engine compartment and you use up the extinguisher trying to put it out- now you have someone still in the car, a fire, and an empty extinguisher. If you have one, use it to protect people in the car should the fire spread far enough while someone else assists the occupants in getting out.

Re:Basic First Aid

[RealGrouchy]

Indeed, and don't learn them (exclusively) from a video game. Learn them from a professional, who will also tell you your legal rights, responsibilities, and limitations as a first aid provider.

The headline could just have been "man sued for improperly using first aid techniques he learned from a video game".

- RG>

Re:Qualifying as a Medic

[erbbysam]

If I remember correctly, when I played through all of the training to unlock everything a few years ago, all of the answers were available online and I just did something else while the lecture played... so much for learning how to dress a wound while I wanted to be shooting some terrorists.

Re:Propaganda

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it quite suspicious that the guy who helped out is the person quoted as saying that he saved a life.

Normally in these types of stories, it's the medical professionals who treat the victim afterwards which are quoted as saying "Without this person's help, the victim would not be alive today." It carries some weight, because they're professionals, and they should know.

With this story, we have the guy himself saying it. He admits himself he's no healthcare professional - we're supposed to trust his judgment on how valuable his help was? Besides, what's he going to say? - "Actually, all the stuff I did had no bearing on the victim's survival. I was pretty worthless out there." or even "Trying to emulate A.A., I actually got stuff wrong, and actually made the victim's chances for survival worse. It would have been much better just to wait for the trained medical professionals to come. Sorry."

Although what he did sounds like reasonable medical care (I'm no doctor), I don't think you can leap to the conclusion that without America's Army, the person in the SUV would be dead/disabled. I'd like a third party's opinion on it, thank you.

BAD ADVICE

[Pentagram]

Unless someone's life is in IMMEDIATE danger, do not move them, especially if they are unconscious

This is contrary to my first aid training. The rule I learnt (and this was a first aid course taken less than a year ago) was that if you find someone unconscious, you put them in the recovery position if (or once) they're breathing. The risk of someone suffocating is greater than any potential damage you might do to them in moving them.

I've just looked it up (DK First Aid Manual authorised by the British Red Cross, St. John's Ambulance, and St. Andrew's Ambulance).

The rule is:

• First, assess the situation (act on any immediate danger)
  
• Then, check for consciousness or response
  
• If the casualty is not conscious, open airway (if not breathing, go to CPR)
  
• If the casualty is breathing, put in the recovery position
  

(After the above, treat other conditions, such as bleeding)

Re:Basic First Aid

[plover]

Technically, you can be sued for anything in this country. You could be sued for trying to stop the bleeding, or you could be sued for standing by and doing nothing.

However, if you are going to sue for a stupid reason, your lawyer should be responsible for telling you that you are filing a frivolous case, and not to pursue it. Most lawyers wont take a paper-thin case, but some would rather try for the money. Pursuing frivolous lawsuits is a black mark against them, and if they do it too often they risk being disbarred.

Re:YES!!!

[Heembo]

Unfortunately, you do not respawn in AA. Also, even after you get shot once, you start to bleed and aiming is tougher. It's easy to die.

I have the best advice of all!!!

[stormguard2099]

don't take first aid advice from /. comments. go get training or information from a more reputable source

note: +5 informative doesn't mean it's reputable

Re:Don't try this at home

[BTWR]

Good Samaritan laws dont hold up in court if youre a Medical Professional. Ie Nurse, Doctor.

Yes they do. Your statement is absolutely FALSE. IAAMS (I am a medical student), and this exact question was in one of my Board exam review books. If you drive by a roadside accident, if you are a doctor/nurse/etc then OF COURSE you should be encouraged to help out since you're the one with the knowledge. I mean, this game player did a great thing, but I'm sure an EMS guy driving by would be even better, you know? And Good Samaritan Laws are there to help you do this good deed. You aren't being compensated, and you can't be punished either.

Re:BAD ADVICE

[Daniel Dvorkin]

It depends on the situation. If your manual doesn't explain that, then the organizations that wrote the manual need to write a better manual. (No disrespect to the groups you named, whose training has undeniably saved a lot of lives over the years.)

A person who is unconscious due to drowning, poisoning (including alcohol overdose), or unknown reasons that do not obviously result from trauma (probably some internal medical condition, cardiovascular or neurological) certainly should be should be placed in the recovery position. But a person who is unconscious due to trauma, such as a motor vehicle accident or a fall or a blow to the head, emphatically should not be moved without proper equipment -- at least a cervical collar, preferably c-collar and backboard -- used by trained medical personnel. It takes a fair amount of trauma to the brain to cause unconsciousness in an otherwise healthy person, and the chance that the trauma involved also caused some spinal injury is very, very high.

I'm speaking here as a former USAF medic and civilian EMT with ten years' experience in emergency response. If you don't believe me, ask any ER/Casualty doctor or nurse -- I guarantee you'll get the same answer.

Re:BF2 Encouraged me to become a medic

[Daniel Dvorkin]

"Medic" is a word with several different definitions. Under some definitions, he certainly is one. Three that I can think of off the top of my head:

1. Any person trained to render emergency medical care, such as an EMT or paramedic. (Chiefly American.) Probably derives from #2.

2. A soldier trained to render emergency medical care under combat conditions. (Chiefly American.)

3. A physician. (Chiefly British.)

Ah, language!

Re:Don't try this at home

[CodeBuster]

Nope, most states have laws in place to protect "good samaratins" from legal reprecusions. Generally speaking, if you were genuinely trying to help and your help was not specifically denied or the victim was unable to respond one way or another then regardless of the outcome you will not be prosecuted or be held liable for trying to render assistance, however bumbling and ineffective that assistance may turn out to be, in good faith.

He learned from the training, not the gameplay

[Fall01]

Most people here might not realize that the First Aid training in America's Army is quite a bit more than you'd expect to see in a game. In order to qualify for certain ranks, the player must sit through a twenty or so minute lecture to provide them with some basic training on the subject. Following the lecture, a quiz is given, and in order to qualify, the player must "pass" the test. The game has multiple training "classes", with subjects including on friendly and enemy vehicles, first aid, and a few other Army-related topics I don't remember off the top of my head. It's not like he played a Medic in the game, running around throwing first aid kits at the wounded, and that let him perform well in this real-life situation. He participated in a bit of scripted training in game, with the dialogue being written based on real-life Army training. Some kid feigning death because he saw it work in World of Warcraft is just as silly as someone trying to break a brick wall by jumping headfirst into it. If you're kid is being "educated" by games that don't attempt to teach anything, perhaps your kids should be reading a few more books and playing a few less games? This story is a great example of how games can be used for educational purposes, reaching an audience that might normally not care about the subject or be interested in learning.