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The Military Education Entertainment Games

Training From America's Army Game Saved a Life 379

russoc4 writes "Most people who play the United States Army's freeware FPS sit through training simulations so that they may be able to get into the action and rack up some kills. The medic skills learned in the training allow you to heal teammates in the game, but it seems that they also apply in real life situations. According to Wired and the America's Army forums, 'a North Carolina man who saw an SUV flip and roll on a highway last November was able to provide medical aid to the victims with skills he learned from the America's Army.'" See? We learn things from videogames! Feign Death works sometimes, too.
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Training From America's Army Game Saved a Life

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  • Propaganda (Score:3, Interesting)

    by david_craig ( 892495 ) on Sunday January 20, 2008 @04:50PM (#22119522) Homepage
    To me this seems like a propaganda story. Especially considering that the article mentions that this story comes from a press release.

    All in the name of making an army recruitment tool seem like a benefit to society.
  • by BadHaggis ( 1179673 ) on Sunday January 20, 2008 @04:59PM (#22119604)

    And if anything goes wrong, the guy AND the game makers will get sued for millions.

    As far as rendering first aid to an accident victim, most states have a Good Samaritan law which exempts the person trying to render first aid from legal recourse. The game maker probably has some extremely small print disclaimer somewhere which states that they can not be held liable for anything in or resulting from participating in the game. It wouldn't suprise me if the disclaimer probably states something along the lines of 'procedures learned in the game should not be tried in real life.'

  • Re:Propaganda (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 20, 2008 @05:06PM (#22119680)
    you're talking about the same media that will cover thousands of homicides a year without fail but barely makes a peep about hundreds of thousands people using firearms in self defense situations annually. what do you think the real chances are of a story like this making the mainstream media?
     
    don't come off like one of those morons who actually thinks the news prints/broadcasts every noteworthy story they get. you know damn well that the mainstream media pigeonholes stories as policy and not as an exception.
     
    look at slashdot: nearly everything microsoft that is posted here is negative and yet if a six man office in cuba adopts linux it's treated like a major victory. sure, there's no bias here. why didn't we see a front page article about my company abandoning our linux servers in 2006? we are a fortune 50 company after all.
  • by MBraynard ( 653724 ) on Sunday January 20, 2008 @05:28PM (#22119856) Journal
    BF2 encouraged me to become a medic. I played a lot of BF2 and BF2142 and always used the medic kit or the assault class with a medic loadout.

    It fostered in me a desire to obtain basic medical skills. Just as it is helpful to be able to revive your comrad in the game, I thought it would be helpful to be able to render real aid to a person in an accident.

    So I registered for an EMT-B certification class and after about 120 hours of class time and 24 hours of on-site training, I was qualified to take the exam and am now a certified EMT-B and considering pursing the certification all the way up to paramedic.

    I will do it only on a volunteer basis - I already have a profession - but it is a worthwile skill and I am glad I obtained it.

  • by besalope ( 1186101 ) on Sunday January 20, 2008 @05:54PM (#22120134)
    Yet if you're "certified" and identify that at an accident you become liable for the victims until EMS or professional aid arrives. If something happens to them (death or worse injury) whether or not it's your fault, your balls are still on the line. You can and most likely will be sued. This is why off-duty ems and doctors aren't always willing to respond to nearby incidents. Sure it'd be a nice fantasy world where we could help everyone and be safe, but this is America... Land of the Sued.
  • by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Sunday January 20, 2008 @06:08PM (#22120278)

    IF you've been taught proper procedures though, the helmet will come off if the person is unconscious; you need access to the airway whether they're breathing or not.

    Why the hell would anyone on the side of the road need "access to someone's airway" if they're breathing, and said bystanders have no medical equipment (unless, of course, there's a Rescue Rodger on the scene.) The only reason you remove a person's helmet if they've been in a motorcycle crash is because you need to perform CPR to keep them alive. The risk of complete paralyzing them otherwise is far too great.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 20, 2008 @06:26PM (#22120412)
    I recall an ambulance officer's anecdote here (Aust) about a man who was giving CPR to a woman.

    The woman was blessed with particularly sizeable 'lungs' and the man had to remove her over the shoulder boulder holder to get them out of the way (if anyone here had actually experienced boobs, you'd know they're mostly squishy and would absorb a lot of the energy from the CPR, rendering it useless).

    This one man is the sole reason that the woman is alive today, and she likely wouldn't be if he hadn't flopped her titties out. He rendered assistance until the paramedics arrived and took over.

    The fucking ingrateful bitch took him to court, sued him for exposing her breasts and a couple of other things to do with touching her cans and won damages for the humiliation of said events.
  • Re:YES!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by shystershep ( 643874 ) * <bdshepherd.gmail@com> on Sunday January 20, 2008 @06:49PM (#22120656) Homepage Journal

    It's one thing for the skills to translate to real life-- the whole point of America's Army, after all, is a combat simulator. So you learn some first aid, and you also learn some combat tactics.

    The real question isn't whether the game gives you knowledge, but whether the game makes you more likely to do something you wouldn't do otherwise. Do you have more of an inclination to find people to bandage after doing it in game? Probably not, no more than you would be more inclined to shoot somebody.

  • Re:Propaganda (Score:5, Interesting)

    by KKlaus ( 1012919 ) on Sunday January 20, 2008 @07:58PM (#22121194)
    Having played the game extensively, you can't tell me it's an effective recruiting tool. The first thing you realize when you play the game, is that you get killed. A lot. And reliably so, to the point that even the very best of the best players can't go more than 10 or 15 kills without getting shot.

    It's almost certainly not propaganda, because it sites a very specific and verifiable incident (and gives the guys name), but either way, it's harmless. No one's playing a game where they get shot all the time and then deciding they want some of that in the real world. The only reason AA is still around is because the Army is essentially the mother of all bureaucracies, and even useless projects frequently don't get cut.

    And as an aside, the medic training in the game IS informative. I now know not to give cold water to people suffering from heatstroke (apparently they can go into shock). ...And I know the difference between a BMP and a BTR.
  • Re:YES!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DaedalusHKX ( 660194 ) on Sunday January 20, 2008 @08:08PM (#22121258) Journal
    Of course it is, and a time sink to boot.

    I spent 15 minutes reading a first aid manual when I was a kid. Amazing how much of the "medical help learned in America's Army" is just common sense and first aid basics. That ANYONE above the age of 12, in a CIVILIZED FIRST WORLD COUNTRY, would LACK THESE SKILLS, tells me all I need to know about how "educated" and "enlightened" westerners truly are as compared to how much they THINK they are.

    Sheesh. Keeping wounds above heart level keeps the blood from spurting out as rapidly. That's basic physics mixed with basic anatomy or first aid. These were actually taught in 4th to 7th grade in most of the eastern block commie countries not that long ago. In the meanwhile they've "westernized" also. In other words, they now attend twice as much school and get half as much education. IMHO, its all the more reason to teach your own kids, presuming, of course, that you've got some actual knowledge to impart and can offer them a good start in the experience that is life and didn't just breed pointlessly as most humans today do.
  • Re:Lawsuits? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by shadowbearer ( 554144 ) on Sunday January 20, 2008 @09:10PM (#22121736) Homepage Journal
    Nice post, but I suspect that the GP's point was that *untrained* people would likely cause more harm than good. He's probably right, I don't have any statistics, but it's shocking how few people really know the rudiments of first aid (and keep up on classes which are offered free in many places). Anyway I did want to add something to your response:

      I also feel that first aid courses that put a serious focus on vehicle accident response should be a mandatory part of obtaining a driver's license. I'd consider the first aid kit optional perhaps, but anyone who took the courses seriously would have one anyway.

      If for no other reason (and there are others, such as getting more people trained, and I feel the same as you about that), it might make a lot of people think more seriously about just how dangerous the vehicle they are driving can be. I think we can all agree there are entirely too many ignorant people out on the roads.

      SB
  • Re:Propaganda (Score:2, Interesting)

    by david_craig ( 892495 ) on Sunday January 20, 2008 @11:30PM (#22122708) Homepage

    you can't tell me it's an effective recruiting tool
    I didn't claim that it was. I mentioned that it was designed as a recruiting tool as possible motive for disseminating information that portrays it in a positive light.

    It's almost certainly not propaganda, because it sites a very specific and verifiable incident
    Propaganda often cites specific and verifiable incidents (frequently selectively excluding pieces of information, or containing misleading information, or distorting the truth).

    the medic training in the game IS informative
    I didn't claim that that was not the case. I was merely suggesting that the story should be viewed sceptically due to the source of the information and the possible motivation behind producing it.
  • Bullshit Puff Piece? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by LKM ( 227954 ) on Monday January 21, 2008 @03:45AM (#22124154)
    As readers on kotaku.com found out, that is possibly a planted puff piece and might not have actually happened at all:

    I went online to find other coverage of this story to see what kind of spin was being put on it. Searching for Paxton Galvanek returned no news results. However, it did point out that he's the president of a marketing firm in New Jersey. Given that the headline mentions "press release" and how there's no source link, I'm going to call this a plant. Unfortunately, I doubt this really happened. It would be good if it did, but given that no news agencies (not even local news) have covered it, and the hero in question is an advertising engine, I'm taking the whole thing with a grain or two of salt.
    http://kotaku.com/346176/americas-army-player-saves-real-life#c3777221 [kotaku.com]

    Not to mention that pulling somebody from a car without first figuring out what their injuries are is a fucking bad idea, unless the car is about to explode (hint: it isn't, unless you're in a movie).
  • Re:YES!!! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Peeteriz ( 821290 ) on Monday January 21, 2008 @07:47AM (#22125130)
    Around here (Eastern Europe) first aid training is solved by driver's licence training - no certificate of passed first-aid training+tests - no driver's licence.

    At least that way most of adult population has some idea of first aid. Though most things are soon forgotten, there's a good likelihood that at least someone from passers-by will know what to do.

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