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eBay Australia Makes PayPal Mandatory 390

Posted by samzenpus
from the what-about-dubloons dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Australian press are reporting that eBay is using Australia as a guinea pig to trial a new policy where all other modes of payment are barred except for PayPal. If successful, eBay will roll it out to other markets."
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eBay Australia Makes PayPal Mandatory

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  • by afaik_ianal (918433) * on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:04AM (#23021740)
    It's not just in the media, either. They emailed us all the following:

    Hi

    Because you are a valued seller we'd like to let you know about some changes to eBay.com.au [ebay.com.au] that are going to make our marketplace an even safer place for you to buy and sell.

    These changes will be introduced in two stages:
    From 21 May you must offer PayPal on all your listings as well as currently permitted payment methods.

    From 17 June you will only be able to offer PayPal on your listings and pay on pick up (i.e.paid for when picking up the item).

    Pay on pick up can only be offered in conjunction with PayPal. No other payment methods will be permitted.
    A small number of exclusions [ebay.com.au] will apply to these changes.

    Get the lowdown on how these changes will affect you.
    "These changes may have some significant implications for how you trade on eBay.com.au, which is why we're organising a series of Q & A events to discuss them with you in person.

    Come along and hear from me about why eBay is making these changes. We'll have a number of eBay and PayPal staff available to answer your questions and explain the changes in more detail.
    We are also conducting a series of online workshops about the changes throughout April and May, so keep your eye on the announcement board for details."

    • by ranulf (182665) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:24AM (#23021840)
      Also, Ebay UK looks like they're not waiting for the results of the Australia experiment. From an e-mail from them this morning:

      Starting in late April, eBay will now ask all sellers to offer PayPal on their listings. This means that even more items on eBay will offer buyer protection.

      This is one of many new initiatives that eBay and PayPal are doing to make it much more difficult for bad sellers to operate on eBay. As a result, you'll notice a dramatic improvement in quality when buying on eBay.
      • by Bert64 (520050) <[moc.eeznerif.todhsals] [ta] [treb]> on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:36AM (#23021908) Homepage
        Except that many of the worst sellers actively use and are supported by paypal...

        See http://www.ev4.org/wordpress/category/fastmemorymanscam/ [ev4.org]

        Basically if you buy an item from a seller, and it's wrong, defective, etc, paypal will give you a refund but only if you ship it to the seller's "registered" address, using a shipping service with online tracking. Because of this, sellers can register an address in a foreign country, sell low value goods, ship you garbage, and then it becomes uneconomical to send it back so the seller keeps your money.

        Aside from the fact that that when selling something, i'd prefer *not* to use paypal, as i have to increase the cost of the item and shipping to cover paypal costs. I much prefer personal collection, i can demonstrate the item to prove it works, and i receive the full amount i sold the item for in cash.
        • by psychicsword (1036852) * <The&psychicsword,com> on Thursday April 10, 2008 @06:14AM (#23022310)
          Using paypal doesn't eliminate problems it just reduces the problems and gives you a few tools to resolve them. Also isn't paypal owned by eBay? if so it makes sense that they want it to be required by eBay users.
        • by MikeFM (12491) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @06:36AM (#23022366) Homepage Journal
          PayPal sucks for seller's too. They have the bad habit of doing things like deciding to lock your account and refund all your recent transactions without adequate explanation or any means of recourse. Who knows if they actually give this money back to the buyers or if they just keep it.

          I for one refuse to use PayPal ever again. I think we need something better than credit cards for buying and selling online but PayPal isn't the solution. It's became very evil since eBay bought it. I've considered creating my own alternative but I think to compete with PayPal and credit cards any alternative needs several major backers such as Amazon and iTunes if it is to have any hope. I'm surprised none of them have formed together to form an alternative as it'd seem they could easily boost their profits by cutting the expense of PayPal and credit card processing fees. If they saved a dime per transaction with the volume they do it'd be a fair savings.

          A free, easy to use, well advertised, auction/store + online cash alternative to eBay + PayPal is a killer app waiting to happen. Lots of people hate eBay and PayPal. Lots of alternatives exist but none I've seen are both easy to use and well advertised.
          • by ATMD (986401) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @07:11AM (#23022534) Journal
            I think Google Checkout [google.com] does pretty much what you're asking for. I've already seen a couple of 3rd-party sites (eg dabs.com) supporting it. I thought I saw it on Amazon too, but I think I must have imagined that.
          • by Reziac (43301) * on Thursday April 10, 2008 @11:38AM (#23025232) Homepage Journal
            I can't speak as a seller, but as a buyer I was impressed with the security and policies from Kagi (the first online payment processor I used to pay someone, many years ago). I did get their seller contract to look at and it seemed straightforward and very specific. http://www.kagi.com/ [kagi.com]

            Anyone have any good, bad, or indifferent experiences with 'em to relate?

            As to eBay's new Paypal requirement, I think this is solely a move to ensure that eBay ALWAYS gets a cut from the payment processing. If some people lack the required resources, or prefer to use other payment methods, oh well, they weren't profitable to us anyway!!

          • by deathy_epl+ccs (896747) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @02:27PM (#23027762)

            It's became very evil since eBay bought it.

            Did you use Paypal before eBay bought it? Their status as an evil entity predates the eBay purchase by quite some time. We kept expecting Paypal to improve when eBay bought it, but instead it was just more of the same.

    • by catwh0re (540371) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:52AM (#23021994)
      Hey ebay,
      It was nice hanging with you when we were younger, but since then I can feel we've grown our separate ways. I still remember our first dot com bubble burst like it was yesterday.

      But, sadly it seems that you're hanging out with a new crowd these days and you've changed, I can't put my finger on it, but you're somehow different. It seems like you don't really care about me anymore, and you don't seem to have coped very well with some of the new people in town. [ebay.com]
      I'm sorry to say it, after all of this time, but I'm seeing someone new [google.com] they're so much quicker and dealing with each individual companies policies still feels easier than dealing with your friend paypal.


      I'm sorry it couldn't work out between us.
      Signed,
      The Internet.

    • by eiapoce (1049910) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @05:23AM (#23022142)
      Read as:
      "You have been giving already a lot of money to us. Nevertheless starting 17 june we want to get more money from you, just because we can.

      We are so confident that we don't even feel the need to justify it by adding the usual bullshit about security issues with other payments methods.

      Take note that the purpouse of these innovations is ultimately to fuck you, our loyal user, in the ass. So you are welcome to join us to discuss your "position" on our Q&A Forums where our dedicated masters will educate you (in bdsm techniques)

      For those of willing to submit without futile resistance we will grant some recreational activities including the online brainwashing course on how we did successfully turn a user supported community into a pyramidal scheme lookalike wich will benefit your ebay masters for a loong time"
      I guess it's not far away the time when google gets the slight hint of business opportunity.
  • Paypal blows (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Clay Pigeon -TPF-VS- (624050) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:05AM (#23021750) Journal
    It looks like it is time to look for alternate online auction houses.
    • by Digestromath (1190577) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @05:39AM (#23022194)
      Might I suggest the auction houses in Darnassus or Thunder Bluff, they generally tend to be underpopulated, so you won't lag out when you visit them.

      Oh you meant ones where you can sell real goods? Damn...

    • Re:Paypal blows (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jank1887 (815982) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @08:51AM (#23023156)
      I recommend Craigslist. I've had better turnover that when I put stuff on eBay.
      • One big concern I have with Craigslist is, eBay apparently invested heavily in them already. I used to wonder why they'd possibly see any benefit to dumping a bunch of money into what's essentially a free version of newspaper classifieds. (I mean, Craigslist has pretty much NO mechanism to collect money, and no rating or "feedback" functionality on the site, seemingly making it useless to something like the eBay business model.)

        But now I'm wondering if this was a "plan B" for them all along? If eBay goes
  • by DiSKiLLeR (17651) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:09AM (#23021758) Homepage Journal
    Well, I guess its definitely time to look for an alternative, and pull my highly rated account from ebay :(

    I refuse to use paypal due to having bad experiences with it in the past.

    In Australia i'd say paypal for paying for ebay auctions is hardly use AT ALL since in Australia its far easier and quicker and cheaper to pay using direct deposit with netbanking. That is THE standard pay to pay here. Why use a middle man? And now to be FORCED to use one? I don't think so.
    • I no longer use my paypal account. After getting burned bad by paypal i was done. My paypal account was linked to my ebay account. My paypal account was emptied and left with a negative balance. Had i used ebay again paypal would have just took all the money. Remember people they are not a bank. They are just some people holding onto your money. How would you trust someone you dont know to hold your money?

      Maybe you think my story is isolated but read online. Paypal routinely freezes peoples accounts only to never let them have their money.

      Check out paypalsucks.com
      • by johnw (3725) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @05:58AM (#23022256)
        The similarities between Paypal (not a bank) and eBay (not an auction house) are quite marked. They both seem to want to desperately defend there "not a ..." position because it means they can have the benefits without the responsibilities. Like so many others I have long refused to use Paypal because of their shifty behaviour. Until Paypal is a proper bank (with all the safeguards that that requires) and eBay admits to being an auction house (ditto) I won't be using either.
      • by phcrack (207416) <adam&stfu,ca> on Thursday April 10, 2008 @06:52AM (#23022444) Homepage Journal

        Remember people they are not a bank.
        Actually, in Europe they are a bank. From the German PayPal site:

        PayPal wird EU-weit von der PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A. (PayPal Luxemburg) als Bank geführt und von der Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF) reguliert.
        which translates to something like "PayPal is run EU-wide as a bank, and is regulated by the CSSF."
      • by badasscat (563442) <basscadet75&yahoo,com> on Thursday April 10, 2008 @08:18AM (#23022902)
        Remember people they are not a bank. They are just some people holding onto your money. How would you trust someone you dont know to hold your money?

        Maybe you think my story is isolated but read online. Paypal routinely freezes peoples accounts only to never let them have their money.


        But why would you let them "hold onto" your money?

        I have a PayPal account and use it fairly often. I don't keep any money in there. What point is there in doing so? If I want to pay for something, I have PayPal take the money off my credit card. (They cannot do so without authorization, by law.) If I'm being paid for something, I wait until I have the payment notice and then I immediately have that money transferred to my bank account.

        Even if you're a bulk seller, I can't see how it's all that difficult to just go in there once a day and transfer the balance to a bank account. It takes less than one minute.

        PayPal should be seen as a conduit between buyers and sellers; that's it. If you use it that way (and it is the proper way to use it), then their service is fine. There's no reason to leave a bunch of money in your PayPal account. You may as well give it to some guy on the street and ask him to hold it for you.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by cbmilne33 (1138783)
      In Australia you have Fairfax Media as we do in New Zealand.The New Zealand arm of Fairfax Media has bought www.trademe.co.nz which has similarities to Ebay.It may be possible for them to set up www.trademe.com.au as an alternative to Ebay Australia.
    • 1 - I never used eBay anyway.
      Quote: "Found it in the Trading Post"
      2 - I'll absolutely, positively never use eBay now. I might have considered it, but not now.

      Just alienated around 80% of their potential client base.

      (note: 80% is a wild guestimate pulled out of my arse).
  • by Kupfernigk (1190345) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:10AM (#23021766)
    I refuse to use Paypal because I am not convinced it is covered by banking regulations. These may not be perfect (understatement of year to date) but are surely better than nothing. Can anybody explain to me in what way entrusting funds to Paypal offers any real and accessible legal protection against fraud?
    • by edwardpickman (965122) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:24AM (#23021838)
      Don't worry they aren't covered under bank regulations and you are largely at their mercy since there aren't specific regulations covering them. I'm amazed the government has turned their back on them since they are functioning as a bank but are unregulated. They scare me and I've canceled my account several times but certain things require them already. I largely let the account stand inactive. If we loose other options with Ebay I'll probably drop them myself. The whole thing is so dodgy I haven't hardly bought anything on Ebay in years. It used to be pretty cool but I don't trust ebay, the buyers or sellers, I've been screwed by all of the above. Just not worth the hassle and risk.
    • by Bashae (1250564) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:31AM (#23021874)
      When Paypal europe moved to Luxembourg last year, due to EU regulations it had to become subject to banking rules. More information here: http://www.finextra.com/fullstory.asp?id=16927 [finextra.com] I don't think it's a bank outside europe though.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by eiapoce (1049910)

      Can anybody explain to me in what way entrusting funds to Paypal offers any real and accessible legal protection against fraud?
      That's the point. In a normal situation the Ebay feedbacks should protect against scammers and the police should prosecute the scammers. Handling the "protection" job to anyone else than public enforcment is BAD.
  • by Kenja (541830) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:15AM (#23021780)
    From a sellers perspective I can see the desire to take other forms of payment, but as a buyer there is massive appeal for the use of PayPal. With how its integrated into eBay it makes conflict resolution much simpler and gives you a means of tracking and proving receipt of funds.

    The only thing I would want to see added to the service is an escrow option. But the idea of sending a wire transfer, check or money order to some unknown entity on the internet sounds like a bad idea.
    • by DiSKiLLeR (17651)
      Except paypal fucks the sellers.

      I sold an item for over $1000 USD on ebay. Recieved payment by paypal. Sent item off. Payment went into bank account.

      A few weeks later paypal contacts me saying that I was paid using a stolen paypal account, and to please return the money.

      How about, ummm, get fucked? To this day paypal still wants to get this money back from me, so I refuse to use them. Its not my fault paypal has terrible security and lets everyone's accounts be phished and sellers get screwed by this?
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Kenja (541830)
        What do you think would have happened if it had been purchased with a stolen credit card, check book, etc? Same thing. PayPal is not acting any different then any other group in that position, in fact the have a legal responsibility to do what they do. Ownership of stolen funds or goods does not change when they change hands for a second time. Pawn shops get burned in this manor a lot.
        • by freedom_india (780002) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:25AM (#23021846) Homepage Journal
          Nope. If it were a bank, the merchant would pay for the loss or the bank will bear it.
          As banking laws go, once the money is in your account, nobody (except by court order) can debit your account except you.
          Nobody.
          Similarly, they can't suddenly block access to your account without informing you in writing.
          PayPal OTOH can debit your account and drain it fully and then refuse to explain why plus put you in call waiting.
          • by Kenja (541830)
            No. If you receive stolen funds, you are under a legal obligation to return the money.

            "If it were a bank, the merchant would pay for the loss or the bank will bear it."

            In this case, you are the merchant. You dont get to keep the stolen money. Sorry.
            • by freedom_india (780002) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:36AM (#23021902) Homepage Journal
              Not exactly. When a credit card holder disputes a debit, the bank contacts the merchant first and asks him to verify the debit he made. It also gives the merchant details about who disputed what, etc, plus a specific time.
              Within the time, if the merchant cannot produce proof, the cardholder's complaint is sustained.

              At NO time has the bank the legal authority to debit or even block access to the funds in merchant's account.

              This is different from paypal, which is under no obligation to contact you, can and will block your account, and withdraw funds from it without due process.

              And that is why paypal is different from a bank.
          • by DiSKiLLeR (17651)

            Nope. If it were a bank, the merchant would pay for the loss or the bank will bear it.
            As banking laws go, once the money is in your account, nobody (except by court order) can debit your account except you.
            Nobody.
            Similarly, they can't suddenly block access to your account without informing you in writing.
            PayPal OTOH can debit your account and drain it fully and then refuse to explain why plus put you in call waiting.

            And this is PRECISELY what is the problem with paypal.

            Look up paypalsucks.com and other related sites.

          • by vux984 (928602)
            Nope. If it were a bank, the merchant would pay for the loss or the bank will bear it.

            Half right. Its almost always the merchant.

            And guess what, as the ebay seller, YOU are the merchant.
        • by eiapoce (1049910) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @05:32AM (#23022168)

          What do you think would have happened if it had been purchased with a stolen credit card, check book, etc? Same thing.
          Bullshit. CC companies have insurances against fraud. Once you get the money it is yours. Only exception is that you participate in the scam, in this case you get a prison term, wich is something that paypal is NOT providing to the scammers.
  • by mcrbids (148650) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:16AM (#23021788) Journal
    Ebay's success comes because it's a moderator - a broker in a sale. It connects two parties together, and nothing more. When it does that, Ebay is golden. It's UI is nice, it's search feature generally works, and that's why it's a multi-billion dollar corp.

    But if they cram paypal down my throat, I'll swallow something else. I'm already at the point where Ebay is my LAST resort, since their ratings have been so thoroughly gamed I have no idea who I'm really dealing with, anymore.

    Forcing paypal? No way. I refuse. What's the next halfway decent auction house? Truthfully, I've already moved much of my online purchasing to froogle.com....
  • double dipping? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by unfunk (804468) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:16AM (#23021794) Journal
    That's fucked up. So now, not only do I have to pay eBay a fee for listing my item, I also have to pay PayPal a fee to get my money? No thanks.
  • PayPal is not a Bank (Score:4, Interesting)

    by freedom_india (780002) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:17AM (#23021798) Homepage Journal
    Firstly, although PayPal may have a banking license in switzerland, it is not a bank per se and the Australian Reserve Bank will not guarantee my money with paypal if any.

    Secondly, As a bank i have recourse to my money when i demand it. Period.
    With paypal i have to jump through many of their fraud hoops which assumes, as a recepient, am guilty of money laundering unless i prove myself to be innocent. That is not how a bank operates. And if a bank will not pay a lawfully presented demand for payment, i can force the bank into liquidation single-handedly. (Long before that the Reserve bank will intervene, but that is beside the point).

    Thirdly, PayPal does not follow banking laws in opening accounts with it. Not even in fact the [in]famous SNOW accounts of Citi in early 1980s in US (Negotiated Order of Withdrawal).

    Fourthly, if PayPal goes under, who will repay my money with them.

    I think the ARb should intervene and either force Paypal to be a "bank" (which is unprofitable for them), or close down.

    • force Paypal to be a "bank" (which is unprofitable for them)


      They are a bank. Have been since around 2004, I think. Am I missing something?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Two points:
      Paypal Australia Pty Ltd is an Authorised Deposit Taking Institution (the umbrella term covering banks, credit unions and building societies) according to APRA:
      http://www.apra.gov.au/ADI/ADIList.cfm#PB [apra.gov.au]

      There is no explicit guarantee (by the RBA or anyone else) on deposits held with banks or other ADIs in Australia, although it is often assumed that if one of the banks went bust, the government would bail them out.
  • by EdIII (1114411) * on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:19AM (#23021810)
    I already canceled my account since they were forcing me to provide PayPal as a payment option. I really don't understand this. There are SO many people that just don't trust PayPal, So MANY horror stories that PayPal has a stigma against it. Even people that have PayPal now and have never been burned complain that PayPal in addition to the eBay fees cuts into their profits margins too much.

    I will never create a PayPal account to take money from people. I just won't do it. So now I cannot sell anything on eBay anymore. Well if eBay can survive just from the Power Sellers, then that is what will happen, but it won't be a place for the average joe to sell his stuff.

    I must also say that since eBay burned me and pissed me off, I have not even searched eBay for any products in over a month. I use to check pricegrabber.com, pricewatch.com, cdw.com, and a few other sites in addition to eBay. I don't even check eBay at all now.

    Good Luck eBay, your going to need it.
  • Sourer Grapes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pilsner.urquell (734632) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:21AM (#23021820)
    I have a bother that worked for eBay from the beginning. He loved it until they bought PaPal and credits the move with his eventual leaving eBay.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by mgblst (80109)
      Did he happen to give you any reasons why?? Why were they forcing him to get paid via paypal?? Did he have to use paypal to pay for his canteen lunch.
  • Competition laws (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mikechant (729173) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:22AM (#23021824)
    If successful, eBay will roll it out to other markets.

    If they roll it out in the EU, this could fall foul of competition laws; the credit card companies/banks could presumably complain of being shut out, given Ebay's near total dominance.

    (Obvious the same could apply in other countries, but the EU currently seems keenest on actually enforcing competition laws.)
  • Alternatives (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Meneth (872868) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:24AM (#23021836)
    So, let's build a list of alternatives.
    • buy new online - you get new latest model stuff rather than old crap, and you won't pay much more for.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Chrisq (894406)
        I think that people that want to sell "old crap", or as they would say "quality pre-owned items" that are complaining about ebay.

        Besides, I have brought a number of good, cheap items and my wife has had some exceptional deals
        • I find the computer / electronic goods totally overpriced on EBay.

          I visit discount stores online like newegg.com and check out the prices on some on the cutting edge gear and then it all becomes clear why I don't buy this stuff on EBay. I've bought about 12 electronic things on ebay - besides being old model, more than half of it was defective or substandard in some way.

          After throwing a lot of gear out I resolved to buy new online. Ebay think they have us by the Aussie short and curlies becuase we pay

    • Re:Alternatives (Score:5, Informative)

      by Chrisq (894406) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:44AM (#23021938)
      I have found some good reviews of the following, and they all look cheaper than ebay.

      http://www.specialistauctions.com/ [specialistauctions.com]
      http://www.52marketplace.com/ [52marketplace.com]
      http://www.cqout.com/ [cqout.com]
      http://www.ebid.net/ [ebid.net]
      http://www.tazbar.com/ [tazbar.com]
      http://www.oneway-uk.com/ [oneway-uk.com]
      http://www.avabid.com/ [avabid.com]


      I have only had a quick look at each, http://www.ebid.net/ [ebid.net] seems to have the most comprehensive items list from a buyer's point of view
    • GunBroker.com (Score:3, Informative)

      by NevarMore (248971)
      http://gunbroker.com/ [gunbroker.com] - eBay doesn't let you sell weapons
  • by Chrisq (894406) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:25AM (#23021844)
    If its mandatory, make it free (for use on payment for ebay items, charging for other uses is OK). How can they justify a double charge?
  • by falsemover (190073) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:31AM (#23021872)
    I've already emailed a complaint through their contact system. I've had many happy transactions trough bank transfer from both a buyer and seller perspective. This is the ENTIRE reason for the rating system - so you know who you are dealing with before the transaction. I will cancel my account tomorrow and simply buy new over the internet. With the overshopping that goes on on ebay, I'll probably even save some money and get new stuff rather than second hand. Ebay is going the way of Microsoft, way way down under.
  • Of course.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nitelord (824762) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:32AM (#23021878)
    "If successful, eBay will roll it out to other markets." Of course they'll be successful, all other modes of payment are barred!
  • Tangent --- (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Phurge (1112105)
    Taking a slight tangent, but I think this is a prime example of one the web 1.0 heroes turning evil. The original management have ceased running the show and we have new management wanting to eke out every dime possible using strong-arm tactics like this one.

    Contrast this with Amazon, Google & Yahoo whose operating ethos is still relatviely benign (especially when compared to Microsoft or Apple). Getting to my point... I think Google at the moment is not evil, but you can bet your bottom dollar when L
  • Not just Australia (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mattbee (17533) <matthew@bytemark.co.uk> on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:38AM (#23021914) Homepage
    In the UK (3x as many people as Australia) I got an email to say that Paypal *must* be offered as a payment option, not that it must be the only payment option. So I imagine they are testing different policies in different smaller markets. It makes sense to try to streamline it and get a few more % of each sale - eBay is still complicated compared to Amazon's sales process and Amazon seem to get away with taking almost 10%.
  • hmmm. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by apodyopsis (1048476) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:40AM (#23021924)
    blam! the sound of eBay shooting itself in the foot.

    as a buyer paypal has some good points - limited protection, traceability, etc.

    but as a seller it sucks big time as just adds another set of fees to your sale.

    eBay nicks nearly 5-10% of the sale price including paypal.

    if they made paypal free and just part of the eBay service then there might not be so many arguments, but to enforce it and then make additional money is such a blatent money grab that this will backfire big time.

    buyers may like it, but if there are no sellers then there will be no buyers. it will be interested to watch how the number of items for sale changes in ebay.au after this is enforced. anybody know how we can plot a graph of items for sale vs. date to track the impact?

    I'm guessing that there will be such a negative impact in .au that they will not dare make the same change to .com .co.uk etc.

    from eBays point of view they are being pressurized to add more traceability into their system by law enforcement worried about fraud and fencing - so they are really between a rock and a hard place here.

    one thing is certain - behind every internet giant is a number if "would bes" who will seize every opportunity to steal business, so eBay will have to tread carefully here.
  • by ivi (126837) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:43AM (#23021934)
    Doesn't eBay -own- PayPal...?!?

    Well, forcing your customers to use your subsidiary company (or any supplier, for that matter) sounds pretty anti-competitive to me... and - if the Aussie comtetition watchdog barks loudly enough, eBay may have to play fair again.

    I'm sure credit card vendors will scream "Fowl!" soon...
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by lewko (195646)

      I'm sure credit card vendors will scream "Fowl!" soon...
      What does any of this have to do with poultry?
  • I hope they will do this, and then realise thats its a big mistake when customers go elsewhere. Its a great opportunity for a competitor to steal some of their market.
  • Is this illegal? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by lewko (195646) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:46AM (#23021956) Homepage
    I understood that by law, merchants are required to accept legal tender to pay a debt. In other words, there's no way they can prohibit people paying cash once a debt exists (i.e. they have one the auction).

    Admittedly the above is from my recall of High School business studies, and IANALADHAT (I am not a lawyer and damned happy about that).
  • meanwhile... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SharpFang (651121) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @04:53AM (#23022002) Homepage Journal
    eBay Poland is still dead.

    After introducing fees for their auctions, they dropped from their 3rd place with a good chance to become 2nd to being somewhere along with the two last places - auction sites that are subject-specific, collector auctions. Very few desperate sellers use it, and over 90% offers 'from Poland' are listed as 'e-book, electronic delivery only, free shipping world-wide', foreign auctions.
  • Anti-Trust issues? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 10, 2008 @05:00AM (#23022040)
    Ebay is pretty much THE auction site on the net, and they own paypal. this sounds like leveraging a monopoly in one market to effect an advantage in an unrelated market and anti-competitive behaviour to me.

    the EU has given microsoft plenty of shit over the years for anti-competitive behaviour, it will be interesting to see if/what kind of flack ebay attracts over this.
  • by Peregr1n (904456) <ian.a.ferguson@gmail.com> on Thursday April 10, 2008 @05:08AM (#23022074) Homepage
    I use eBay occasionally but my email address and bank details are barred from PayPal, so if this happens I won't be able to use eBay at all.

    I'm barred because I (as a seller) was scammed and left £300 out of pocket - when I tried to complain to PayPal, I couldn't even get through to a human being, and they automatically assumed that I was the fraudster, and shut down my account. Ironically, they were slower at shutting down the scammer's account on both eBay and PayPal, despite my attempted warnings, and they went on to scam a few other people before they were finally barred.

    By the way, is there a decent alternative to eBay, or have they got a complete monopoly?
  • by jonwil (467024) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @05:18AM (#23022118)
    How is this NOT a violation of the trade practices act?
    Anyone know the right way to get the ACCC to investigate this?
  • no way no how (Score:3, Informative)

    by timmarhy (659436) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @05:59AM (#23022260)
    paypal is so fucking annoying, i signed up with them once and had to go through all the 5c deposit and registered mail crap.

    i simply can't be ass'd doing it again, easier to just use gray's online or something.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 10, 2008 @06:59AM (#23022476)
    As I discovered to my cost recently, if you accept PayPal payment you are effectively also accepting Credit Card payments (via PayPal). Unless your sale qualifies for seller protection (mine arbitrarily didn't, and unless you check it's not easy to realise you're not covered), then you are totally open to something called 'chargeback'.

    Chargeback is basically fraud protection - if someone's credit card is stolen they can recover any lost money. But where do you think this money comes from ? From the credit card issuing company ? From PayPal ? Nope - the fraudulent transactions are reversed, so the person who originally received payment ends up footing the loss. That's maybe all well and good when you are talking about large companies and small levels of fraud, but now with eBay we are talking about literally millions of small time sellers, and probably hundreds of thousands of fraudulent transactions.

    What this means is that if you accept PayPal payment, unless you are very careful about being 'protected' (and even then, who knows how far that protection covers you) you will be totally liable for any credit card fraud that transpires when someone purchases from you. The chargeback can (and does) occur MONTHS after the original transaction.

    I strongly advise everyone NOT to accept PayPal payments at all. If eBay is forcing PayPal onto sellers, then I recommend ditching eBay - the risk of fraud is too big. You might as well leave your items on the street with an honesty box.
  • by jrumney (197329) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @07:29AM (#23022614) Homepage

    It seems that with this, and the Amazon [slashdot.org] news from a few days ago, some of the companies that experienced rapid growth during the first .com bubble by offering what the customer wants vs the old model of trying to control the market are now switching to the old model. They control enough of the market now that it probably seems safe to their board to do this, but they are forgetting how rapidly they themselves were able to grab market share, and seem to be missing the fact that if someone new moves into the space they are vacating, the market share that the new company takes will come almost entirely from their customer base. They should also keep in mind that it won't necessarily be a startup that moves into their space; Google, Yahoo and Microsoft are all contenders that could jump in and cause a massive shift in the market almost immediately.

  • Bye bye, eBay (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ajs318 (655362) <sd_resp2NO@SPAMearthshod.co.uk> on Thursday April 10, 2008 @08:20AM (#23022916)
    I have always used postal orders, made out to CASH, when paying for goods bought from eBay. I feel this is the safest form of payment because of all the gaps in the trail. The seller doesn't need to know any more about me than where to send the goods, and I only need to know where to send the money. The clerk at the post office where I bought the postal order doesn't know where I am going to send it, and once the PO is in the post, there is nothing to link it back to me. The clerk at the post office where the seller cashes the PO doesn't know where it came from; and once the goods are in the post, there is nothing to link them with the seller. If any unauthorised party intercepts either transaction, the recipient can reasonably say they know nothing about it. After all, I have no control over some stranger who decides to put something in an envelope and write my address on it! Sometimes, that level of plausible deniability is very important.

    If they start insisting on PayPal, I will cease using eBay. I do not want my transactions monitored so closely, thank you very much. Part of me is even surprised that eBay have not started a delivery company {or bought up an existing one} and started trying to strong-arm people into using that .....
  • paypal sucks (Score:3, Informative)

    by hesaigo999ca (786966) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @08:39AM (#23023042) Homepage Journal
    because we all know how great paypal is, and how often that they want to talk with you in case of problems, most people can't even find their contact phone number, let alone get someone worth while on the phone who knows what they are doing....

    My experience and friends experience with them, makes this one of those things that saddens me.
    If they could up their regulations and communications with their clients, then maybe but they do everything to avoid talking with you about the problems you may be having. NEVER KEEP LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY IN YOUR ACCOUNTS, THEY CAN FREEZE IT AT THEIR DISCRETION AT ANY TIME WITHOUT NOTICE.

    My friends sells batteries, as a powerseller, and whenever he has problems with credit cards, he can usually get info from the card company, even if he has to swallow the charge, however if there is an indiscretion with someone else's paypal used to purchase his item, he gets frozen until they can figure out what happened, and they are very slow, almost retarded...so he waits and waits, he has a few accounts set up in case of such thing, that way he can still do business..
    but what a hassle, it isn't his fault someone frauded someone else's account, so why does he pay
    in lost revenue etc....?

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