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Windows XP Still Outselling Windows Vista 498

Posted by timothy
from the in-this-house-they're-tied-at-zero dept.
nandemoari writes with an excerpt from an InfoPackets article that says "While Microsoft excitedly tries to sway public opinion by touting that Windows Vista License sales top 180 Million units, Hewlett-Packard (HP) was busy smacking Microsoft down — reportedly shipping PCs with a Vista Business license but with Windows XP pre-loaded in the majority of business computers sold since the June 30 Windows XP execution date established by Microsoft — casting a lot of doubt over how many copies of Vista have actually been sold."
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Windows XP Still Outselling Windows Vista

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  • Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

    by clang_jangle (975789) * on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:15PM (#24515609) Journal
    From TFA:

    HP isn't the only one bursting Microsoft's bubble. Microsoft Watch recently reported on the dismal pronouncement on the state of Vista adoption among top businesses. The really bad news for Microsoft is the number of business PCs running Windows XP increased from 2007 to 2008 -- three times the increase in the percentage of PCs running Windows Vista...In a survey reportedly conducted by a systems management appliance company, 60 percent of those surveyed have no plans to deploy Windows Vista and 42 percent are actually exploring Vista alternatives. 11 percent have already made the switch to Mac OS X or Linux.

    Wow. Although quoting the statistics from "a survey reportedly conducted by a systems management appliance company" is mighty vague, I'll bet it's not far off. Add to that the rise of the netbook, and it's just looking better and better for Linux.

    • Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:19PM (#24515695)
      this is true. they may just hit 3% market share in the uk before the end of the decade. woohoo!
      • Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)

        by Futile Rhetoric (1105323) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:25PM (#24515781)

        Do you mean Linux, or Vista?

        • Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:29PM (#24515867)

          I can feel it, 2009 will be the Year of the Vista Desktop.

      • Re:Wow (Score:5, Informative)

        by jmorris42 (1458) * <jmorris.beau@org> on Thursday August 07, 2008 @04:34PM (#24517071)

        > this is true. they may just hit 3% market share in the uk before
        > the end of the decade. woohoo!

        I dunno, things are looking up lately. I know Amazon isn't exactly the first place people go to buy a computer but they publish a ranking chart in realtime. I looked at it yesterday and noticed some interesting figures on the laptop chart. These numbers are for the top 25 sellers:

        Linux 9
        WinXP 6
        Vista 5
        OS X 5

        Even when you combine the Windows numbers you still have a very respectable 11/9/5 spread. And if you buy the Apple hype that OS X is a UNIX the Windows vs *NIX battle is 14 to 11.

        The mininote has opened up a whole new front in the OS Wars. Of course if you ranked em by dollar volume Linux would be dead last since all of the Linux based machines are much less expensive than the fancy Sony and Apple kit.

        • Mininotes (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Jabbrwokk (1015725) <grant...j...warkentin@@@gmail...com> on Thursday August 07, 2008 @04:45PM (#24517229) Homepage Journal

          The mininote has opened up a whole new front in the OS Wars.

          Great point! I have noticed the Asus Eee and the Acer AspireOne are attracting a lot of attention. At the local Staples (the only electronics store of any note in my town) people are fascinated with them. They're small, quiet, powerful enough to play music and videos, have wireless access to the Internet and do basic office suite work for under $400. The ones on display are running Linux.

          Granted, they also have the option of running a stripped-down (???) version of XP, but people I've seen playing with them seem to like the Linux interface and have no problem figuring it out.

          Maybe the desktop is no longer the crucial front in the struggle to dominate home computing.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by therufus (677843)

            Can I just add that we got an Eee Box B202 in for a customer this week and it was a sexy little machine. Atom CPU, 1Gb RAM, 80Gb HDD, 802.11BGN, XP. For a basic PC that can do office work and a little web browsing and such, this is a killer. At $499 the price is right too.

            But even then, there is a fast booting mini-os that lets you browse the web without booting windows.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by jd (1658)
            If you buy a PC that uses a Linux BIOS but has XP installed, is that considered an XP sale, a Linux sale, or both? If both, then any of those Asus motherboards with a Linux-based BIOS should be added to the Linux column as well.
          • Re:Mininotes (Score:4, Insightful)

            by houghi (78078) on Friday August 08, 2008 @03:54AM (#24522081)

            Maybe the desktop is no longer the crucial front in the struggle to dominate home computing.

            It hasn't been for may years. The thing that kept it back was pre-installation. Put Linux on pre-installed machines and people will use that.

            People here will most likely complain that they can not put their distro on it, but the general public is not interested at all. All they want is to open the box and have a running system.

            Pre-installation will also force hardware makers to have Linux hardware and drivers, which will be good for others as well.

    • Re:Wow (Score:5, Informative)

      by Sockatume (732728) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:47PM (#24516179)
      I'm not sure that avoidance of Vista translates into good news for Linux. If you have a volume licence to install XP on your whole site, then regardless of what hardware you purchase in the interim, the deadline for switching is 2014 when Extended Support stops. They can sit on XP for that long, I'm sure, by which point the "Vista alternative" being explored will be Windows 7. If you're buying an OS licence tomorow, then getting something other than Vista is a priority, but I wonder how much of MS' business revenue that accounts for.
      • Re:Wow (Score:4, Interesting)

        by maglor_83 (856254) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @06:25PM (#24518543)

        the deadline for switching is 2014

        Interestingly, XP will be as old then as Windows 95 is now.

    • More statistics (Score:5, Informative)

      by Lonewolf666 (259450) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @04:05PM (#24516509)

      From the latest Valve survey (Windows only):

      Windows XP ------------- 80.77 %
      Windows Vista --------- 15.08 %
      Windows Vista 64 bit - 2.68 %
      Windows 2003 64 bit - 0.70 %
      Windows 2000 ---------- 0.61 %
      Other -------------------- 0.15 %

      So even in Windows Gamer Country, Vista has reached only 15% market share...

      • Here's another article with some survey data on Vista adoption vs XP. It has a few interesting bits, one being The really bad news for Microsoft: the number of business PCs running Windows XP increased from 2007 to 2008â"three times the increase in the percentage of PCs running Vista. and the other the comparison of Vista to the high school slut. Pretty, but no substance. http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/vista_doa_in_the_enterprise.html?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535 [microsoft-watch.com]
    • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

      by grahamd0 (1129971) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @06:51PM (#24518831)

      Add to that the rise of the netbook, and it's just looking better and better for Windows XP.

      There, fixed that for you.

      I'm not knocking linux, it's a perfectly fine OS, but it's not even on the radar for most people.

      The headline is a red herring. It doesn't *matter* whether more computers are running vista. The simple fact is that vista licenses are being sold. I'll reiterate that because it's important: People are paying money for vista. It does not matter whether they're installing it.

      Large corporations have the agility of 10 story buildings, if they have volume license for XP, they'll run XP into the ground. It's not that they're afraid of vista, they're afraid of change. Linux is a *much* bigger change than Vista for them.

      • Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)

        by fwarren (579763) on Friday August 08, 2008 @03:52AM (#24522075) Homepage

        It doesn't *matter* whether more computers are running vista

        Yes it *does* matter. As long as Vista does not penetrate the market, software stays XP compatible. People and software developers are not using Vista only features.

        This means that every day Microsoft does not obtain vendor and customer lock in with Vista. Is another day XP is the target that the Wine Project is trying to hit. Linux with Wine is becoming more and more XP compatible. This is NOT good for Vista. Nor Microsoft in the long run.

  • by xzvf (924443) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:17PM (#24515651)
    OK, I'm a zealot, but if you mostly use a computer to browse the web and get email and write an occasional document buy a Linux computer.
    • by joshtheitguy (1205998) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:21PM (#24515729)
      I agree with you completely. If I were not a gamer I would not have Windows installed on my computer at home.

      There is absolutely no reason to run any variety of Windows as a web browser or email checker as far as I'm concerned. Most distributions of Linux are easy enough for anyone to use.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Joe U (443617)

      OK, I'm a zealot, but if you mostly use a computer to browse the web and get email and write an occasional document buy a Linux computer.

      Why not just buy a WebTV then? At least if you're running Windows you can go to circuit city or best buy and get some software for it.

      • by h4rr4r (612664)

        Or you can just get what you need for free on a linux box.

        The software bought boxed in those stores is always garbage.

        For the average user the distribution will have everything they need.

  • by Miladinoski (1280850) <miladin,miladinoski&gmail,com> on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:18PM (#24515677) Homepage

    'cause Microsoft still gets the $$$, no matter what OS sells more...

    • by captainstormy (1107081) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:24PM (#24515771)

      It matters because MS spent alot of time and money developing Vista. If customers continue to demand XP and refuse to upgrade to Vista then that time and money was a waste.

      While I'm certainly no MS fan I gotta admit that its sort of a compliment that people like XP so much they refuse to upgrade to Vista. Granted some of that is because of possible problems with Vista, but alot of it is that many people do not see the need to upgrade XP.

  • To quote.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by nawcom (941663) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:24PM (#24515763) Homepage

    Beavis from an old Beavis & Butthead episode commenting on an artist of a music video, Microsoft "Probably went to a doctor to see what's wrong and the doctor said, "You suck"."

    Yep. Vista just sucks.

  • measure is how many copies are being used.
  • MrBoston (Score:2, Interesting)

    by MrBoston (1340555)
    Kudos to HP for still shipping machines with XP pre-installed; Dell requires the purchase of a $150 license with "downgrade" rights.
    • Re:MrBoston (Score:5, Informative)

      by Taelron (1046946) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:32PM (#24515903)

      They just raised it... Two weeks ago when I ordered 6 new computers for two different clients it was only a $50 upgrade to get it with XP pre-installed.

      Oh well, you can always exercise your downgrade rights under the EULA and use a privious Dell OEM XP Cd if you have one laying around from previous systems, and still be legal without paying the Down/Upgrade tax.

      • Not really. Most Dell OEM XP cds are tied to the hardware they ship it with, unless they've changed that recently.

        • Re:MrBoston (Score:5, Informative)

          by Taelron (1046946) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @04:00PM (#24516427)

          Nope, Any Dell OEM XP Cd shipped since 2000 will work on ANY Dell computer built after 2000. It looks at the BIOS codes... I routinely rebuild client computers and just use the first Dell OEM cd I grab that matches what version it has installed...

          Used a Dell OEM XP Sp1 cd from like 2003 on a brand new Dell Laptop the other day after the person decided to open the box himself and go online before we installed antivirus or malware protection software...

          Toshiba and HP do lock the OEM software to certain versions. And IBM and Dell lock the Server software to particular models, but not the XP home and Proversions.

          You cant use an Dell cd on an HP box without having to call Microsoft and explaining and manually activating the machine.

  • Old news? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sexybomber (740588) <boccilino@@@gmail...com> on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:27PM (#24515847)

    I work for a computer consulting firm, and we've known about this for months now. In fact, we've switched from selling almost all Dell systems to almost all HP systems because of it; our clients just don't want Vista, and this is a really convenient way to satisfy them. I actually thought HP was doing us a favor shipping the XP systems because we do so much business with them, but I guess it's standard policy!

    I hope HP continues to offer this option, because if we're any indication, the OEMs and resellers *really* appreciate it.

  • by ErichTheRed (39327) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:34PM (#24515937)

    I wonder what Microsoft's thinking. Vista does have _some_ nice features, but a very long list of things to worry about. Every one of my IT peers I've talked to (I'm a desktop systems guy) has said their large company is putting off Vista migrations and waiting for Windows 7. We are too, not because we hate it, but because it's just not necessary yet.

    It's been a pretty bad combination of factors:
    - Features cut from the original Vista release that might have made it worth the pain
    - IT departments who just spent 6 years getting XP stable enough
    - Bad economy means that IT departments are cutting back, so it's not feasable to implement Vista even if you're a volume license customer. No one has time to research it properly with a reduced staff.
    - XP SP3 is out, and is looking really good.
    - Just a general "Oh no, here we go with a new OS again" malaise across IT departments in general.

    Small businesses, on the other hand, are perfect Vista candidates. 3-user companies who don't run anything more complex than QuickBooks are Vista's target market right now. And now that it's on every computer you buy at any retail store, there's no reason for a small business to switch back. Large companies are basically not affected by June 30th because we can just buy Vista licenses and downgrade, which explains the inflated sales numbers.

    On the "big company" side, I have lots of fun stuff to deal with. Internal web-based apps that were written when ActiveX was king. Business critical software last updated in 1996 and sometimes even before that. A constant mix of brand-new and 8-year-old hardware. Plus a user population that's not necessarily the earliest adopters.

    I really hope Microsoft has something big planned for the next release. Swithing to Linux or Mac is totally not feasable for us (again, when you don't have 20 years of legacy Windows code to deal with, it's definitely a consideration.) It would take another major flop on their part to even think about migrating some of our business apps away from Windows.

    • by HeronBlademaster (1079477) <heron@xnapid.com> on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:41PM (#24516071) Homepage

      It's even harder when you're not just *using* 20 years of legacy Windows code, but *developing* it...

    • by dtml-try MyNick (453562) <litheran@@@gmail...com> on Thursday August 07, 2008 @04:12PM (#24516661)
      I think it's quite simple, Windows XP just works and does the job properly.

      Windows XP with sp2 or sp3 is rock stable. There is tons of support to be found around the web if you do run in to trouble. You can't imagine a device, no matter how obscure, and you can find decent drivers for it.

      Almost all the software you can think of runs on XP by now (except for the odd highly specific packages perhaps) XP will run nicely on older hardware by now, so no need to upgrade.

      Most of the users use XP at home or are already familiar with it, so there is little to none training required.

      I know I'm talking to the wrong crowd here but Microsoft actually made XP too good. Businesses and home users have little to none reason to upgrade.

      The extra security added in Vista? If configured properly XP can be just as safe.
      DirectX 10? Hardly any use for that in a business environment.
      Other then that? Not much except for the eye candy.. Woohoo.. yes, that will make your office a lot more productive!

      So why would any sane organization go through the trouble of upgrading all the machines, training the employees and running after all the new security holes and troubles that come with a new OS?

      Linux and Apple are clearly taking advantage of this situation and MS... Windows 7 must be damn good otherwise Windows domination will soon be a thing of the past.

      I think this whole Vista thing will be a disaster for MS far greater then Windows ME ever could be.
      MS knew ME wasn't all that good and it was presented as a in-between OS, no big marketing and probbaly not so high expectations profitwise. Vista however was hailed as the 2nd coming of Christ.. well hello there Satan.. :)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:34PM (#24515941)

    The quote in the summary misunderstands the slight-of-hand going on in an illustrative way. The controversy IN NO WAY casts doubt on how many copies of Vista have been SOLD. It casts doubt on how many copies of Vista are INSTALLED and being USED.

    All the HP sales involve the sale of a Vista license. They're just installing XP instead of Vista (something the Vista license expressly allows). The customer's paying for a Vista license.

    The clever marketing trick is MS would like you to believe the 2 numbers are similar, desipte significant evidence to the contrary. They want you to look at the big "sold Vista licenses" number and think "Wow, a lot of people are USING Vista".

  • Customers had to choose their OS.
    Windows or Windows is not a choice.
    Windows or Nothing would be a start.

  • by night_flyer (453866) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @03:37PM (#24516001) Homepage

    There is no real advantage to upgrading to Vista or BluRay for most people

  • by bobcat7677 (561727) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @04:01PM (#24516431) Homepage
    Kindof ironic. Earlier this morning I got an e-mail from our IS people outlining the software policy of the school district (I'm currently working for a large school district).

    IE7 was found to not have any compatibility issues with current software used so that is allowed but not mandated. Office 2007 seems to work ok, so they will be rolling it out or the compatibility pack updates "soon". And Vista was found to be not compatible, of little usefulness, and generally undesirable. Officially it is to be avoided and the district will look forward to upgrading to Windows 7 when it becomes available.

    What this means to us, is that if a new workstation or laptop is requested by a user or their supervisor, and the district cannot procure a machine with XP, the request will be denied. Vista will only be allowed if the user submits a justification of why they need it (IE, have to run some software in the classroom as part of the curriculum that only works with Vista) and that justification is approved by their supervisor and IS.
  • Plagiarism (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mothrsuperior (981616) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @04:03PM (#24516463)

    the second link: http://apcmag.com/xp_still_killing_vista_in_sales_volume_hp.htm [apcmag.com]

    the third link: http://www.infopackets.com/news/business/microsoft/2008/20080801_windows_xp_still_outselling_windows_vista.htm [infopackets.com]

    these two stories are word for word, character for character, 50-70% identical. Yet authorship is claimed by two completely different sources.
     
    This would suggest to me that _somebody_ is a shitty squat blog, plagiarising for page hits.

  • by Toreo asesino (951231) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @04:16PM (#24516743) Journal

    Vista comes with huge security implications (it that it has some), IE7 as mandatory, and therefore has large compatibility implications for large companies especially.

    I know of several huge Microsoft customers that, despite being 100% MS based, still are in the testing/tweaking/certification stage of all their apps before they begin global roll-out. It's in the pipelines, but no one standardises on new workstation OS's until they can guarantee 100% compatibility - which can take a long time.

    There's a scarily amount of enterprise-based IE6 only apps out there which alone makes Vista a difficult upgrade (IE6 not being an option on Vista). It's worth it in the end, as frankly, it's a better OS in the long-run IMO.

    Gone are the days of writing to c:\windows without repercussion. Gone are the days of dropping kernel hooks in to get better app performance. Thank god.

  • Not For Sale (Score:3, Insightful)

    by stewbacca (1033764) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @04:20PM (#24516839)
    WinXP is no longer for sale, so how can it be outselling anything?
  • by the_rev_matt (239420) <slashbot@r e v m a t t .com> on Thursday August 07, 2008 @04:23PM (#24516889) Homepage

    " reportedly shipping PCs with a Vista Business license but with Windows XP pre-loaded in the majority of business computers sold since the June 30 Windows XP execution date established by Microsoft â" casting a lot of doubt over how many copies of Vista have actually been sold."

    While there may be doubt over how many have actually been sold, what this datapoint highlights is not how many copies are being sold but rather how many are being sold but not used.

  • Selling? (Score:5, Funny)

    by NicknamesAreStupid (1040118) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @05:07PM (#24517589)
    It is like asking how many tax returns did the IRS "sell" last year.
  • by kimvette (919543) on Thursday August 07, 2008 @05:12PM (#24517647) Homepage Journal

    We have MSDN subscriptions for development and testing work. How are MSDN subscriptions counted for the purpose of this PR? Is each subscription counted as 10 Vista licenses since each subscriber can install 10 concurrent instances (for the use of that subscriber)?

    How are the Action Pack subscription counted? Are they counted as 10 licenses per subscriber, or as one?

    How are evaluations counted?

    How are software assurance licenses counted?

    I suspect that in addition to the Vista sold/XP installed sales, the number is vastly inflated due to non-retail and non-oem licenses.

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