Carbon-Neutral Ziggurat Could House 1.1 Million In Dubai 393
Engadget is reporting that a new pyramid-shaped city of the future, dubbed a "Ziggurat," is being touted by Dubai-based environmental design company, Timelinks. Claiming that their design allows for an almost self-sufficient energy footprint and, obviously, economy of space, the real trick would be getting 1.1 million people to live in such close proximity. "Martijn Kramer, managing director of The International Institute for the Urban Environment told WAN: 'As a general reaction the Ziggurat Project is viable from a technical point of view. However reflecting from a more sustainable holistic approach we do wonder if the food supply and waste system are taken care for, as the concept seems rather based upon carbon neutrality and energy saving.' Kramer's initial reaction to 'Ziggurat' also raises a very important issue: are people willing to live in a mega building of 2.3 sq km? Will the thought of living in a machine comfort people?"
Why wouldn't they want to live there? (Score:5, Interesting)
People live in large blocks of flats today, and would anyone really prefer ugly, grey, and box-shaped over clean, high-tech, and pyramid-shaped?
Re:Control of personal space (Score:2, Interesting)
People can live in very different conditions if their basic needs are met...
Sex. There, that's my basic need. Sooooo, 1.1 million people in close proximity = The worlds largest Toga party? Sweeeet.
The key question to answer is: What is the reason for the people to live there...
Refer to my previous answer for my real reason. Now, where are all the hot chicks?
Dibbs! Level 3-top Corner, North East facing (Score:4, Interesting)
I got not particular problem with spending a substantial amount of time indoors. I like to get out in nature now and then too, but within a city? Who cares?
I do however like decent view.
If the hallways are design appropriately, and there are some largish open spaces within also designed appropriately it's an easy sale.
Arcology (Score:5, Interesting)
All predictions aside, I'd be surprised to see this ever happen. After all, the first one [wikipedia.org] built in Arizonba never did fare that well.
Culture vs. Need vs. ...? (Score:5, Interesting)
Culture obviously plays into whether or not folks would be willing to live in something that is hyper-dense or not.
OTOH, something that doesn't seem to be taken into account is, what happens when families change? A single guy only needs 'x' amount of space. Now when that single guy gets married*, has 4 kids, and a parent becomes decrepit/disabled and decide to move in...? Obviously there's going to be a lot of change in how much space the guy can be comfortable living in, no matter what culture we're talking about here.
Also, what happens when some fatal communicable disease starts making the rounds? shutting folks into their 'homes' will only work for so long before even the most gregarious human being starts to get cabin fever (for lack of a better term).
There's also the chance that the local economy could contract as well - you can only fit so much stuff into one space, and it's not like, say, Home Depot could do a whole lot besides sell wallpaper, paint, and light fixtures to the folks (just as example).
Some folks here will happily cry against the "McMansion!" and think they're being the smartest guy in the room, but consider this: those things do get sold for a reason, especially as our society gets more and more 'crowded'... Suburbs, as much as they're derided, are actually a compromise between the comfort of wide-open spaces (and a buffer from 'the world'), and the conveniences of living in a city.
From that point, it begins digging deeper into some fundamental human psychology - how does a human being deal with being more and more crowded in society?
* yes, we could pack the city with programmers and handily solve the marriage problem, but we're talking people here...
Re:right up till... (Score:5, Interesting)
I just saw the NOVA episode about NIST's report on the WTC collapse.
One interesting fact they mentioned: in the event of a disaster, sky scrapers are not designed to be evacuated. There isn't enough room in the stairwells to get thousands of people down dozens of floors in a timely fashion.
In the event of fire, people are supposed to generally stay in place, while a few floors near the fire are evacuated. Fire is then fought in place on the effected floors.
If it's not possible to get a few thousand people out of the WTC in an hour or two, then there's no way you'll ever evacuate a million people from a single building.
The Machine Stops (Score:3, Interesting)
Will the thought of living in a machine comfort people?
Not if they've read the short-story The Machine Stops [wikipedia.org] by E.M. Forster.
Re:right up till... (Score:5, Interesting)
Someone crashes a A340F full of explosives into it. Or sets fires in it, or...
If it's that large, nothing short of a nuke will take it out quickly. A big fire might take it out eventually, but it will take a while.
You did remind me of something though.
Why not put the poor in there? Putting poor people in close proximity housing [wikipedia.org] is a great idea!
Who Came First (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:right up till... (Score:5, Interesting)
One interesting fact they mentioned: in the event of a disaster, sky scrapers are not designed to be evacuated. There isn't enough room in the stairwells to get thousands of people down dozens of floors in a timely fashion.
In the event of fire, people are supposed to generally stay in place, while a few floors near the fire are evacuated. Fire is then fought in place on the effected floors.
If it's not possible to get a few thousand people out of the WTC in an hour or two, then there's no way you'll ever evacuate a million people from a single building.
Did you just not get it? Why would you evacuate a city or large skyscraper if you didn't have to? Sure, fires can spread quickly, but has NY been burnt to the ground by a few random fires in its sky scrappers? Nope, that city seems to be still standing. If we've figured out how to build single building skyscrapers that can isolate a fire and most of the surrounding floors barely notice, why don't you think we can design an entire city like that? You don't evacuate everything, only the isolated areas that are currently dangerous. This is like whining that NY is doomed if any single one of its skyscrapers burned because there would be the potential that the fire could spread to the rest of the city. Here is a clue. Dubai like NY has a fire department and will design such structures so most people don't have to leave their spots when the fire fighters pop by to put the random fire out.
This is like complaining that just in case the structure is hit by a nuke there wouldn't be an easy way to get people out and house them afterward. Heck, any city of 1 million that was hit by a nuke wouldn't be able to move the people or house its refugees. I'd be more worried about industrial air pollution laws within the structure to keep the air quality higher than outside.
Smoke and Mirrors (Score:4, Interesting)
I can answer his question about whether "food supply and waste system are taken care for" the answer is NO. Dubai sewerage system has been operating at twice its capacity for a couple of years and the new plant which is due in a couple of years is already not enough.
For a quick overview of how glitzy this town really is you can check those:
2 weeks sewerage flood
http://www.gulfnews.com/Nation/Society/10225546.html [gulfnews.com]
This was only one "small" issue amongst too many to list. The government and whatever service in charge were overwhelmed and incapable to do anything to fix it. Or didn't care. Let's note that the residential complex has been built about 250 meters away from the sewerage treatment plant. Smell of shit can be enjoyed night and day there even where there is no flood. glitzy..
Dubai is about glitz and money, big tower and man made island but all that is nothing but smoke and mirror, the reality is that the town has not much to live up to the reputation it is trying to build for itself by announcing mega-project over mega-project while finishing none of them.
I could go on and on with my rant. I just want to add that we live behind a filtering proxy that bars any website that dares commenting against the UAE and it is very well possible that slashdot will go bye bye for a few days because of this comment. Just as it already did last year.
Forget about mega-projects announced by Dubai Gov or related entities. It's nothing but an attention whoring press release from a city that would love to play in the big league.
If you care to come around to verify that by yourself you're welcome but be careful what you pack though: http://thetruthaboutdubai.com/?p=4 [thetruthaboutdubai.com]
Re:Willingness (Score:5, Interesting)
I have some conditions:
I would only live there if the ziggurat itself was owned by the public and maintained with taxes. The public spaces, police department, fire department, and etc should all be cared for by the 'city'. I don't want to live in a huge gigantic apartment complex "cared for" by some corporation. Apartment complexes suck enough without the added problem of having to leave the _city_ in order to get away from a bad landlord.
I would want to be able to own, buy, and sell "land" in the ziggurat the same way I can own, buy, and sell real land, condos, and etc.
Re:right up till... (Score:3, Interesting)
Someone crashes a A340F full of explosives into it. Or sets fires in it, or...
Well make it out of something that doesn't burn or collapse in on itself if partially damaged by a large object.
A building that size could be built with enough shock absorbing material to basically survive a ship tanker dropped from orbit.
Reminiscent of 'Oath of Fealty' (Score:1, Interesting)
This is not an city; it's a prison. (Score:4, Interesting)
Jeez, am I the only Slashdaughter that realizes that this is not meant to be a 'city in a building' or a theme park or an oasis, it's meant to be a prison.
The Wackenhut of the world. Every country in the world can send their political prisoners, their purse-snatchers, uppity minorities, and urine-test-failers to Dubai. Where, for a small fee, they will be housed in the biggest, meanest, most-escape-proof, hope-for-humanity-crushing, prison that world has ever seen.
And if the payments stop coming from the original country for the prisoner, they just get chucked outside. Naked. To die in the 120 degree F sun! No mess, no fuss, no packed airplanes dumping political prisoners into the South Atlantic Argentina-style!
Hell, Dubai will even pick-up your prisoners in their old surplus Emirate Airlines Boeings! Tell 'em that they're going to Sweden on an Amnesty International 'Flight to Freedom'! Hell, no one will ever know! (Amnesty International workers are sure to be the first 'guests').
Am I the only Slashdaughter with an evil mind? Or more mature, historically-accurate world view?
And why is Dubai building all this architectural bling in the first place?
Re:Culture vs. Need vs. ...? (Score:3, Interesting)
OTOH, something that doesn't seem to be taken into account is, what happens when families change? A single guy only needs 'x' amount of space. Now when that single guy gets married*, has 4 kids, and a parent becomes decrepit/disabled and decide to move in...? Obviously there's going to be a lot of change in how much space the guy can be comfortable living in, no matter what culture we're talking about here.
The same thing they do in NYC or Tokyo where real estate is a premium:
Make do.
There has been one compelling argument tho that suggests the end of McMansion and Surbia due to peak oil.
The End of Suburbia [youtube.com] (its the full 52 minutes allowed on youtube) documentary which gets into the issues with peak oil and its effects on society.
Its worth a watch and even though I disagree on the alternative energy not being able to take up the slack, it points out how inefficient our current life style is with car transportation and how really the move towards a "New Urban" society is the best solution.
Actually, being able to walk anywhere seems like an optimal solution even if peak oil isn't as bad as they make it out.
Anyways... If they are right, the suburbs will be the new urban blight who no one wants to live in because no one can afford to travel anyways in your car.
Had gas prices gone to $5 this year I'd say we're well on our way to peak oil, but even seeing we have a reprieve we might still want to consider our alternatives.
Re:This is not an city; it's a prison. (Score:3, Interesting)
( SNIP) And why is Dubai building all this architectural bling in the first place?
Because Dubai's rulers recognize that they are on the downward slope of their oil production curve. They're going to run out of oil completely in a decade or two and they're making an effort to transform themselves into a world financial capital. Now, while they've got the money. If they can siphon off a bit of business from London, New York, Tokyo and Hong Kong they'll be well placed to provide for themselves in the second half of this century.
Planning for the future and taking a longer view is a lesson the West should take to heart...
Re:right up till... science fiction takes over (Score:2, Interesting)
The first post speculates a future with planes crashing into futuristic buildings, lets talk about a better future via science fiction. The article reminds me of the movie "Blade Runner". That's all I wanted to say.
Re:right up till... (Score:3, Interesting)
You realize that out of the 50,000 people in both towers, only 2,823 died, with 105 classified as still missing?
That is a 94.2% survival rate in 1 hour 48 minutes.
Re:Smoke and Mirrors (Score:3, Interesting)
My point was that Dubai is the only town of 3 millions inhabitants (75% expatriates on temporary visa) where they announce a new revolutionary mega-project every week even though Dubai's economy register as 17 times smaller than that of NYC.
I just get tired of stupid newspaper reporting on every dreamy Dubai PR as something that "will happen" when the town can barely manage itself at the moment.
Btw, did you know Dubai will have the world largest fountain in the whole entire world? http://www.sizzledcore.com/2008/07/01/worlds-largest-fountain-building-in-dubai/ [sizzledcore.com]
Re:right up till... (Score:3, Interesting)
It appears that the first article is incorrect, and was only meant to emphasize that it was a terrorist organization that created this near-fuel air bomb.