Windows 7 Anti-Piracy Plans 403
Slatterz writes "Microsoft has announced that the forthcoming Windows 7 operating system will contain a number of piracy 'tweaks' it says are designed to protect the interests of customers. Under the new regime users will be expected to validate their software in a much more precise way than before. Other Microsoft operating systems and anti-piracy measures, including Windows Genuine Advantage, allowed users to delay 'activation,' but Windows 7 will make it harder to ignore repeated messages. According to Joe Williams, general manager for Worldwide Genuine Windows at Microsoft, counterfeit software 'delivers a poor experience and impacts customer satisfaction with our products, particularly if users do not know that their software is non-genuine.' Williams gave the example of one piracy exploit that caused more than a million reported system crashes on machines running non-genuine Windows Vista before Microsoft was able to resolve it."
most people won't care (Score:5, Interesting)
because they buy their copy of windows with a new PC from Dell or HP and it's tied to the hardware and probably won't need to be activated.
for the DIY it probably makes sense to buy a technet sub and get "free" Ultimate copies of the OS. my msdn license keys for Vista say up to 10 activations and you can give it out to other people for "marketing purposes"
This is just precious... (Score:5, Interesting)
Any code made by someone can be broken by someone.
Some consumers have already realized they don't have to put up with this bullshit, I hope more do every day.
Re:Hasn't MS learned *anything* over the years? (Score:5, Interesting)
As a user of an OS that is actually zero cost, I would love to see MS actually enforce piracy protections effectively. That is one way to grow linux use. Once people figure out they can no longer "borrow" their buddies disk, they will start looking for alternatives.. and really, you don't even have to be 100% successful. If you make the process difficult enough, people will give up!
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:5, Interesting)
Genuine windows was something dreamt up in the marketing department, but the theory is that "counterfeit" copies are virus ridden.
Basically this just isn't the case, and VLK editions are much nicer to use because of the lack of activation.
Windows XP 64 was especially awesome because it escaped Microsoft's focus on crappy anti-piracy bloat such as WGA, since it wasn't such a main stream OS. I've never had compatibility problems, so for me, pirated XP64 is the best MS OS ever.
What about all of the false-negatives?!? (Score:5, Interesting)
"Williams gave the example of one piracy exploit that caused more than a million reported system crashes on machines running non-genuine Windows Vista before Microsoft was able to resolve it."
WTF do you care what happens to people running pirated copies? Why don't you tell us about all of the times WGA has screwed up legitimate installations with false positives? I've actually had to "hack" a few falsely tagged installations so they'd run until I had time to go through the hassle of getting my system re-legitimized. And I don't maintain that many windows systems. I can only imagine the shitstorm that could be caused in a company with thousands of identical systems that, through some quirk, got nailed with a false positive from WGA.
WGA does absolutely nothing to protect legitimate consumers. Nothing. The only thing WGA can do to any specific installation is disable it. It can't ENHANCE or IMPROVE the system in any way.
0wned Windows Installs (Score:5, Interesting)
Believe it or not, there's actually something to say about ensuring Windows is "genuine" as such; and really this is new to Vista +...
I've seen a few Vista installs now where Windows was completely screwed (no laughing at the back) for no apparent reason, and more importantly would not update. On digging around a bit more, it turned out almost in every case they'd downloaded it off bittorrent/emule, burnt it to disc, and fired it up.
Thing is, Vista is more flexible than ever for OEMs and system builders to streamline their own stuff into the install process so this is a hackers dream; take most popular OS on the planet; "Customise" it with rootkit/trojan; release to downloaders via bittorent and tada...pre-rooted Windows for the pirating masses.
So that's why there is some value in knowing your Windows came from Microsoft direct (rather than some h4x0r)
Poor experience? (Score:5, Interesting)
counterfeit software "delivers a poor experience and impacts customer satisfaction with our products
Obviously he hasn't tried Johnny's Ultimate version of XP. It's awesome! A great experience and it offers great satisfaction. MS should hire him.
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:4, Interesting)
Genuine windows was something dreamt up in the marketing department, but the theory is that "counterfeit" copies are virus ridden.
Actually, they would be because Microsoft will block hacked ones from getting updates to fix glaring security holes. So when you look at the viral load of the interweb, just remember that you're looking at a lot of unlicensed copies of Windows that have been turned into botnet zombies. Microsoft's anti-"piracy" efforts make the world a less secure place.
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:3, Interesting)
There are plenty of preinfected torrents on Piratebay and other public trackers.
Personally, i have no issue with people using Windows without paying for it, even though i do.
However, when you start charging money for loading illegal versions of Windows on other peoples computers, that crosses a line - these people are also what Microsoft is mostly after.
This happens more often than you think, i've seen it more than once, even from companies that seem reputable on the outside.
And don't get me started on companies not selling enough CALs with their software, especially smaller ERP vendors are guilty as hell when it comes to this.
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:4, Interesting)
Hold back the non-essential downloads for pirated copies, but let them have the security fixes.
You gotta love it (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:most people won't care (Score:2, Interesting)
There are many, many small system builders that sell you Windows for free - or people that do IT support for consumers and will install invalid licenses (e.G. you don't have the original media, or your disk broke and you didn't create rescue media).
Re:Really? (Score:2, Interesting)
That was the last straw for me.. had a Dell box with COA on the case, all the sudden WGA decides to tell me that I have a bogus copy of XP.. Ummm... NO?? I removed the drive, copied irreplaceable stuff off via another system, blew XP off and put Ubuntu on it.. Never looked back.. MS can kiss my ass..
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:5, Interesting)
There are pirated versions of XP that will update just like any legal version.
I know lots of people who bought every single version of Windows until they rolled out WGA. Full price.
Then, when WGA was forced on them, they decided to find alternate means of obtaining Windows. None of their machines have been infected and they are all up-to-date with patches.
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Interesting)
For the average person who got the OS with the computer, activation problems means that Microsoft has NOT gotten Anti-Piracy to work right. Legitimate users should not be bothered by the system.
If that happens anyway, I guess it will happen across the board, for people with and without solid computer knowledge. Most of them (your "average person") might believe it was their own mistake, but a few will say goodbye to Windows. But overall, I expect the numbers to be small in this category.
The interesting question is "what happens with the freeloaders if they cannot pirate Windows 7". Lets assume Microsoft comes up with something really hard to crack. It follows that
1) some will pay up for Windows 7
2) many will install XP instead (plenty of hacked versions and pirated Corporate Editions in the wild)
3) some will say goodbye to Windows as above.
1) is what Microsoft obviously wants.
2) is sort of what happens right now, but for other reasons (People prefer XP over Vista). Microsoft won't like it, but it will not make their situation worse.
3) hurts Microsoft's market share, other OS will gain some more visibility.
My guess:
Microsoft gains some money from 1) but 3) will hurt them more in the long run.
Not FUD!! (Score:4, Interesting)
No, that's not FUD.
This very thing happened to me, and MS' response after talking to many people over an hour and a half was:'you need to buy another XP Pro license at around $130 USD', IIRC. I even offered to send them the cd and case with the hologram and my receipt(original, not the copy I was going to keep for myself) to no avail.
I was told my only option was to purchase the new license. I replied that 'no, that is not my only option, as I have this Linux install cd in my hand as we are speaking, and am dropping all MS product use.' And so I have ran some GNU/Linux distro since then.
Check my posting history on this subject...at the time I ranted probably a little/lot too much about this. I was not doing anything 'shady/dodgey' at the time to bring this on myself.
MS admitted it 'could' be due to all of the 'keygen' stuff out there, but my copy became non-legit through no action/inaction/fault of my own. I bought those cd's from a 'reputable', nationwide retailer-with intact packaging, etc..- in good faith with cash money, and that was not 'good enough' for MS.
Not FUD. Period.
Now I have access via my job to two copies of XP Pro*, and two copies of both Vista Enterprise and Office 2007, all of which will suffer bit rot before I think about using them.
They have 'lost userbase/marketshare' of three PC's here on my home network, as I wiped Windows off and installed Linux.(all three were legit, 100% compliant with MS Windows terms)
I repeat, that was not FUD!
*to be pedantic, it's actually six copies total of XP. I get two each copies of: XP Pro(no Service packs), XP Pro SP2, and XP Pro SP2 Upgrade Version.
And when Fallout 3 came out, I did set up an XP partition with one license for XP Pro SP2, but it only lasted about three months until I got tired of 'the MS Way', wiped it, and installed Linux Mint in it's place.
Linux has me too spoiled by now to go back to Windows, even just to play games.
Re:"protect the interests of customers" (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, and all major video game consoles can be bought with that "security" overdriven. After that, you just use any copy in a regular dvd.
Here in Argentina, the least sold console is the PS3, because its games can only be copied in blueray (I don't know why it can't be done like an xbox 360 where you can just copy in dual layer), so people just avoid buying the PS3.
I have a funny anecdote, a family was considering buying a Wii or a PS3, they were checking both at a local store. So they asked the seller "What is the difference between the wii and the ps3?". "Well," he answered " ps3 games can't be copied, wii games can". End of story. The family obviously pass the PS3 and focused on the wii.
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:0wned Windows Installs (Score:2, Interesting)
Generally I trust an Anonymous person on the internet, to not fuck up my PC, more than a real company.
And the sad thing is I'm not even kidding.
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Interesting)
Congrats, you fail at humor.
I fix her computer every time I get a chance to (She's two hours away, I can't just pop over and fix it every other evening), and try to educate her high school age children what NOT to do on the internet.
Her husband doesn't trust anyone without a company name on the side of their truck to do anything, so if he comes in while I'm working on it, I have to pretend to just be surfing the internet, or else I'm the one to blame for breaking it, despite it usually going on for a week or two that it's bogged down with virii, or a driver disappeared, or whatever new problem they've caused it to develop.
Occasionally, I go over to fix the latest problem, and I get there and I'm told "Oh... nevermind, we just went out and bought another computer. Do you want the old one?" so I take it, because otherwise it'll just sit in their basement until it goes out to the curb on trash day.
This is a process that has repeated since, oh, 2003 or so. At this point, it's a cycle of defeat. There's nothing more I can do.
I schedule antivirus scans for whenever I think they'll have the computer on, they just cancel it because it makes their computer slower (They never buy decent computers, and I'm clearly not an expert because I don't have a sign on my vehicle, so I don't get consulted... despite the fact that I BUILD COMPUTERS FOR A LIVING.) or if I set it to run at boot, they cancel it because they want online >>>>>>NOW not when it finishes, and they turn it off as soon as they're done with it.
I thought I had taught them how to run it on their own, but every time I ask them to demonstrate what I taught them the last time I was there, they can't even recall what program it was I installed. Sometimes, they've uninstalled it.
Their latest issue, they had over 40,000 infections. I told them it was time to just wipe the hard drive and start fresh, but they wouldn't have it, so I started up the antivirus program in safe mode and told them not to touch it. I even stayed the night so I could monitor it periodically.
I get up in the middle of the night and what do I find? One of the kids on the computer, playing a game.
I ask what happened to the scan, since I KNEW it was nowhere near done... "Oh, I got bored waiting."
Pardon my not growing, though. I guess I'll have to try better next time. Maybe install a cattle prod, or hell, try beating them.
(And no, I can't just lock down their accounts, because it's not my computer and the kids would throw a bitchfit. I tried it once. They won't accept Linux of any sort either, but it's understandable because one of them is a Sims2 junkie, and from what I've seen WINE doesn't get along with it... not that SHE knows that, but eh.)
So, do YOU have any brilliant suggestions that won't end up with me being labeled the antichrist of IT, or were you just coming in with a "DAMN GREEDY KIDS!" comment? They're using XP Home.
Good luck with that Microsoft! (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Interesting)
The sad thing is that just yesterday [slashdot.org] I was praising Windows 7 for being at least a fairly reasonable improvement over Vista.
In a rather ironic twist, anti-piracy measures like this are the only thing that would stop me from buying it. Given Williams' comments, this may be the fastest I've changed my mind on a potential (future) purchase.
Re:some sugestions (Score:2, Interesting)