Today Google announced that they're removing the "beta" label from Gmail, Google Calendar, Google Docs and Google Talk. They said, "We've come to appreciate that the beta tag just doesn't fit for large enterprises that aren't keen to run their business on software that sounds like it's still in the trial phase." Quoting the NYTimes:
"'Obviously we haven't had a consistent set of policies or definitions around beta,' said Matt Glotzbach, a director of product management at Google. Mr. Glotzbach said that different teams at Google had different criteria for what beta meant, and that Google felt a need to standardize those. ... Practically speaking, the change will mean precious little to Gmail's millions of users. But it could help Google's efforts to get the paid version of its package of applications, which includes Gmail, Calendar, Docs and other products, adopted inside big companies."
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Well, duh. Google marks apps as beta so they have no uptime or reliability requirements to the end user. You can't blame businesses for wanting software they've paid for to not have such an inherent disclaimer.
I congratulate you for the immense work you must have put in to achieve such an astounding level of ignorance. Of course businesses have privacy concerns! That's why big corps will pay a shitload of money to really good IT people to keep their systems secure, instead of relying on the honesty unknown people at some other company over which they have no (or little, at least) control. The best way for them to mitigate the risk of liability would be to keep all that data off the freaking Internet, and on th
I think it had something to do with new features only being integrated into the paid version when they'd been thoroughly tested in the free version - or something along those lines.
Maybe I'm just imagining it, but I think I remember reading something about that a while ago.:)
I have used the premium Google apps for a little over a year, and only today the logo had the beta label removed, I were actually reading about it on Engadget, flipped to the tab with my mail and saw that it had beta on the logo, refreshed the page and the beta label was gone.
Did you check "Enable pre-release features" or "Next generation" in the Google Apps domain settings? It's my impression that only explicitly enabling beta features like that would cause the "beta" label to appear. If those are unchecked, you should see no "beta" label.
Paying for software that comes with guarantees (uptime other SLAs) also ensures that an IT department can pass the buck when the thing stops working. This is a big factor in IT purchasing decisions, and the reason why lots of IT folks pay the exorbitant costs for support contracts, when most of the time, you really could just stock the parts or run the thing yourself, often at a considerable discount.
That's a good question, but if you think about it, it's pretty understandable. If you remember, Gmail used to by an invite-only thing that they were testing. When each of these services were first introduced, they were unstable (both in terms of reliability and the unpredictability of changes) enough to warrant the "beta" tag.
So they probably had a vague and intuitive notion of what "beta" meant to them. However, if you don't have a clear and specific definition of "beta", then there will never be a moment when it clearly makes sense to drop the label.
But the press release says they lifted the beta term for marketing reasons, meaning no new standard of functionality or reliability has been met. So as far as anyone knows, they will always be beta. Their PR certainly still is. They should have made some visual changes to denote a significant upgrade. I guess their spin department is still in alpha.
>If they don't have a definition for "beta" then why was it there in the first place?
They don't need a definition. If you were going to sue Google, they'd be able to say "Not only did it have no warranty, but it was also marked 'beta' which is common vernacular in the software industry for 'in testing' or 'if it breaks you get both pieces.'"
It would not be hard to get an expert witness to say that to a judge. I would.
Also, why would I trust a company, that does not even know if its products are still beta, or no, or what it means, or anything?
Has there been a bug tracker site? Was it linked from inside the program? Did no new bug report come in for 3 months? Did they fix all the bugs in the tracker? (Without the feature requests and bugs depending on them.) I haven't seen any of those. So to me it still is beta, it always will be (Microsoft style), and the only reason it is relabeled, is for money reasons (again Microsof
Of COURSE they have a definition of Beta - Beta is commonly used.
"Alpha" is an in-house test of software. "Beta" is test software released "out of the shop", so Google's "beta" was apt.
I don't think you can have "alpha" or "beta" to noncommercial software. Ubantu can have a beta, but not Linux. Then again, maybe Google was/is taking a poke at Microsoft, who is notorious for releasing buggy yet still expensive software. Microsoft only seems to get it right after a long time; Excel is a good example, a fine s
We use Google Apps for business purposes, but selectively. It just doesn't work for all my documents. By the term "all", I mean most. We basically use it to keep track of certain project details among other things, but not for any of our real documents.
I am curious to know how satisfied or otherwise you are with Google Docs. In my case, I find that this particular application needs more love from Google.
In addition, I would love to have GMail display the calendar in much the same way as YahooMail does. It's sweet to see important dates scroll by at the bottom as you type an email in Yahoo.
Google Mail and Calendar are great for small businesses. I expect Google Voice to be a game changer as well. Most small businesses have businessname@yahoo.com but Google Mail allows you to have person@businessname.com with the ease of Gmail.
So many things today I didn't see coming!
-We finally get a straight answer from Microsoft on C#, in favour of OSS
-Russia and the US agree to disarm
-Microsoft admits there's a security flaw in ActiveX
-VLC reaches 1.0
-Google's stuff gets out of Beta
Either I need to pay more attention, or drop my cynicism. I guess I kind of expected them to happen, just not for a while yet.
Yeah, really it's been weird all year. The first black president, record labels drop DRM, Duke Nukem Forever is finally cancelled, The Watchmen is released as a movie, HTML5 and CSS3 are starting to be implemented in almost all the major browsers, and...
...what else? I bet we could keep it going. That stuff was just off the top of my head.
I can see where it's going: - CAFC declares all software-only patents invalid - Microsoft releases ODF compatibility pack for all versions of Office as a critical update - SCO is officially dissolved - Apple declares it will implement Theora in HTML5 - Adobe open sources Flash Player - Kim Jong-il's residence blown up in a North Korean nuclear test mishap - Michael Jackson jumps out of the coffin and performs "Thriller" at his funeral to a shocked audience
This is just great. Google Mail is finally out of Beta. Duke Nukem Forever is cancelled. If finally there is a year of Linux on the Desktop, only an unfinished GNU Hurd stands between us and the Apocalypse...;-)
The problem is, there are two different definitions of "stable" one is, the application doesn't crash or have lots of downtime, the other is the application doesn't change. Gmail was stable by the first and most common definition, however I don't think Google imagined Gmail was stable by the second definition. However, a few years later, it became clear that Gmail was more or less stable by both definitions.
A "stable" medical device is far more stable than a "stable" website. It is a matter of reaching the metrics stated in the system availability requirements.
Glad to see they're out of beta. So, when can I create, edit, view and share documents on Google Docs from my Google G1 Android phone? So far, you can edit and view spreadsheets (to a limited extent) but you can't create them, nor use any of the other doc types.
By the time you finally accepted the fact that the full name of the product wasnt "Gmail", but "Gmail Beta", they changed the rules, say that all was a joke, and that the real name was all the time Gmail, that was in beta stage.
Calling Google Apps "Beta" was likely a pragmatic move on the front of both marketing to bleeding edge internet enthusiasts who are addicted to novelty and engineering in limiting the expectations and liability of google products. They could maintain beta quality products and code and levels of support as long as they kept the beta moniker.
However, I feel that the web's incestuous advertising scheme is beginning to dry up in these times of economic peril, so google needs to go for harder sources of money, like enterprises. Now they're no longer circumventing Microsoft in the market but facing them head to head for a position in the enterprise. Microsoft has as strong position in this market, so they have a certain legacy and stability, which enterprises appreciate.
The first step for Google in combating this will be the simple rebranding of their products to give the semblance of maturity. In reality, any recent changes to the code are minimal to superficial, so this is merely a marketing maneuver and says nothing about the practical roles of beta and gold software in software engineering. It's a welcome change, but it is yet to be seen whether google has the attention span to maintain stable enterprise products. Offering a consistent platform will also open them up to the sort of demonization that Microsoft has faced up until now, as expectations may rise above what they can deliver.
"We've come to appreciate that the beta tag just doesn't fit for large enterprises that aren't keen to run their business on software that sounds like it's still in the trial phase."
That's what beta means, you idiot! It means it's in the trial phase! You mean I've been right all along, and the beta tag was just an excuse to eliminate complaints? Well color me shocked. The attitude has got a whiff of evil about it.
Seeking Alpha [seekingalpha.com] says that Google may be killing off the free "Standard" edition now that Apps is no longer beta. "The current sign up page makes no mention of the previously free Standard edition." That would leave only the Education version as the freebie.
Julie
--
Take a gander at Network World's Google Subnet [networkworld.com]
Google news for the enterprise.
We've heard some questions about why the link to Google Apps Standard Edition disappeared from the Enterprise Apps home page, so we wanted to share the answer. As we explored a few design changes to the page, the link to Standard Edition was inadvertently dropped, although the free version of Apps was, as always, available here. We've put the link back where it belongs so that it's easy to find.
We have no intention of eliminating Standard Edition, and we apologize for any confusion.
that aren't keen to run their business on software that sounds like it's still in the trial phase.
This is the precise moment the last developer with a say in business, died at google. May they rest in peace.
The beta label issue has been around about as long as gmail itself, and every time they were asked about it, the answer was always the same: it's trial software. Because, IT WAS, and STILL IS.
Now we have google announcing on their own their graduation from beta, but for all the wrong reasons. The marketing heads had to make it known that they won. They should have just said, "it is now stable software." But no, that is what a responsible developer would say. They basically denounced the beta label being there in the first place, giving strategic reasons, and not technical ones. The worst part? If they had known better, they would have still pretended to be responsible developers.
They are idiots, and they are taking over. If I had google stock, I would sell it right about... NOW.
Yes, but Google Apps uses your own domain name. Hence the reason why it was originally named "Google Apps for Your Domain". The name has since been shortened, but that fact still remains.
Beta (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, duh. Google marks apps as beta so they have no uptime or reliability requirements to the end user. You can't blame businesses for wanting software they've paid for to not have such an inherent disclaimer.
Re:Beta (Score:5, Insightful)
Wasn't the paid version non-beta all along?
IIRC only the free versions were marked beta...
Parent
Re:Beta (Score:5, Informative)
>Wasn't the paid version non-beta all along?
Yeah, and it's reliable. There's really no reason for small and medium businesses to run their own mail servers anymore.
Parent
Re:Beta (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks for sharing your opinion, Sergey.
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Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I congratulate you for the immense work you must have put in to achieve such an astounding level of ignorance. Of course businesses have privacy concerns! That's why big corps will pay a shitload of money to really good IT people to keep their systems secure, instead of relying on the honesty unknown people at some other company over which they have no (or little, at least) control. The best way for them to mitigate the risk of liability would be to keep all that data off the freaking Internet, and on th
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I think it had something to do with new features only being integrated into the paid version when they'd been thoroughly tested in the free version - or something along those lines.
Maybe I'm just imagining it, but I think I remember reading something about that a while ago. :)
Re:Beta (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Beta (Score:4, Informative)
Did you check "Enable pre-release features" or "Next generation" in the Google Apps domain settings? It's my impression that only explicitly enabling beta features like that would cause the "beta" label to appear. If those are unchecked, you should see no "beta" label.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re: (Score:2)
True enough. Of course, every other software company just hides their liability disclaimers in the EULA. That's ever so much more honest.
wtf (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:wtf (Score:5, Funny)
They have always had a definition.
The problem was that it was just a beta version. They'll be unveiling the 'Release' definition shortly.
Parent
Re:wtf (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a good question, but if you think about it, it's pretty understandable. If you remember, Gmail used to by an invite-only thing that they were testing. When each of these services were first introduced, they were unstable (both in terms of reliability and the unpredictability of changes) enough to warrant the "beta" tag.
So they probably had a vague and intuitive notion of what "beta" meant to them. However, if you don't have a clear and specific definition of "beta", then there will never be a moment when it clearly makes sense to drop the label.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
>If they don't have a definition for "beta" then why was it there in the first place?
They don't need a definition. If you were going to sue Google, they'd be able to say "Not only did it have no warranty, but it was also marked 'beta' which is common vernacular in the software industry for 'in testing' or 'if it breaks you get both pieces.'"
It would not be hard to get an expert witness to say that to a judge. I would.
Re: (Score:2)
Also, why would I trust a company, that does not even know if its products are still beta, or no, or what it means, or anything?
Has there been a bug tracker site? Was it linked from inside the program? Did no new bug report come in for 3 months? Did they fix all the bugs in the tracker? (Without the feature requests and bugs depending on them.)
I haven't seen any of those. So to me it still is beta, it always will be (Microsoft style), and the only reason it is relabeled, is for money reasons (again Microsof
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Do you mean the Known Issues [google.com] page, which has the know bugs and the applied fixes?
Re: (Score:2)
Of COURSE they have a definition of Beta - Beta is commonly used.
"Alpha" is an in-house test of software. "Beta" is test software released "out of the shop", so Google's "beta" was apt.
I don't think you can have "alpha" or "beta" to noncommercial software. Ubantu can have a beta, but not Linux. Then again, maybe Google was/is taking a poke at Microsoft, who is notorious for releasing buggy yet still expensive software. Microsoft only seems to get it right after a long time; Excel is a good example, a fine s
I use Google Apps, but (Score:4, Informative)
We use Google Apps for business purposes, but selectively. It just doesn't work for all my documents. By the term "all", I mean most. We basically use it to keep track of certain project details among other things, but not for any of our real documents.
Re: (Score:2)
I am curious to know how satisfied or otherwise you are with Google Docs. In my case, I find that this particular application needs more love from Google.
In addition, I would love to have GMail display the calendar in much the same way as YahooMail does. It's sweet to see important dates scroll by at the bottom as you type an email in Yahoo.
Re: (Score:2)
Google Mail and Calendar are great for small businesses. I expect Google Voice to be a game changer as well. Most small businesses have businessname@yahoo.com but Google Mail allows you to have person@businessname.com with the ease of Gmail.
Today is a good day (Score:5, Interesting)
-We finally get a straight answer from Microsoft on C#, in favour of OSS
-Russia and the US agree to disarm
-Microsoft admits there's a security flaw in ActiveX
-VLC reaches 1.0
-Google's stuff gets out of Beta
Either I need to pay more attention, or drop my cynicism. I guess I kind of expected them to happen, just not for a while yet.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Beta Calendar (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, but with my Google Calendar being in Beta status (up until now) I wouldn't have been able to trust it!
Re:Today is a good day (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, and I didn't even have to use my AK!
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Just more things to add to the list of things that have happened since Duke Nukem Forever was announced.
(Yes, I know it's dead...)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah, really it's been weird all year. The first black president, record labels drop DRM, Duke Nukem Forever is finally cancelled, The Watchmen is released as a movie, HTML5 and CSS3 are starting to be implemented in almost all the major browsers, and...
...what else? I bet we could keep it going. That stuff was just off the top of my head.
Re:Today is a good day (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
I can see where it's going:
- CAFC declares all software-only patents invalid
- Microsoft releases ODF compatibility pack for all versions of Office as a critical update
- SCO is officially dissolved
- Apple declares it will implement Theora in HTML5
- Adobe open sources Flash Player
- Kim Jong-il's residence blown up in a North Korean nuclear test mishap
- Michael Jackson jumps out of the coffin and performs "Thriller" at his funeral to a shocked audience
Re: (Score:2)
Wait for tomorrow! It will be like when Al Bundy got four aces, because the horror with the scope said "Good luck's a-comin'"!
holy shit! (Score:4, Funny)
I haven't been this surprised since Amazon turned a profit.
Re: (Score:2)
ObUserFriendly [userfriendly.org]
Nooooo! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
GNU/Hurd 1.0 released [humorix.org]
"BETA" Already gone (Score:2)
I just hit Shift-Refresh and the "BETA" suffix is no longer there on Gmail.
Two definitions of "stable" (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
A "stable" medical device is far more stable than a "stable" website. It is a matter of reaching the metrics stated in the system availability requirements.
Docs and Android (Score:3, Interesting)
Glad to see they're out of beta. So, when can I create, edit, view and share documents on Google Docs from my Google G1 Android phone? So far, you can edit and view spreadsheets (to a limited extent) but you can't create them, nor use any of the other doc types.
Is a bird! Is a plane! (Score:2)
By the time you finally accepted the fact that the full name of the product wasnt "Gmail", but "Gmail Beta", they changed the rules, say that all was a joke, and that the real name was all the time Gmail, that was in beta stage.
100 million (Score:5, Informative)
For those of you disappointed by this announcement (Score:5, Funny)
They've give you the option to put your own version of Gmail back into beta, you know, if you're into that sort of thing:
http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/gmail-leaves-beta-launches-back-to-beta.html [blogspot.com]
The good news: Google apps are all out of beta! (Score:5, Funny)
The bad news: they're all entering 'Gamma'
Simple Marketing (Score:5, Interesting)
Calling Google Apps "Beta" was likely a pragmatic move on the front of both marketing to bleeding edge internet enthusiasts who are addicted to novelty and engineering in limiting the expectations and liability of google products. They could maintain beta quality products and code and levels of support as long as they kept the beta moniker.
However, I feel that the web's incestuous advertising scheme is beginning to dry up in these times of economic peril, so google needs to go for harder sources of money, like enterprises. Now they're no longer circumventing Microsoft in the market but facing them head to head for a position in the enterprise. Microsoft has as strong position in this market, so they have a certain legacy and stability, which enterprises appreciate.
The first step for Google in combating this will be the simple rebranding of their products to give the semblance of maturity. In reality, any recent changes to the code are minimal to superficial, so this is merely a marketing maneuver and says nothing about the practical roles of beta and gold software in software engineering. It's a welcome change, but it is yet to be seen whether google has the attention span to maintain stable enterprise products. Offering a consistent platform will also open them up to the sort of demonization that Microsoft has faced up until now, as expectations may rise above what they can deliver.
In short, Google is growing up.
It does not mean what you think it means (Score:4, Insightful)
That's what beta means, you idiot! It means it's in the trial phase! You mean I've been right all along, and the beta tag was just an excuse to eliminate complaints? Well color me shocked. The attitude has got a whiff of evil about it.
Some say that the freebie version will end, too (Score:3, Interesting)
Julie
--
Take a gander at Network World's Google Subnet [networkworld.com]
Google news for the enterprise.
Re:Some say that the freebie version will end, too (Score:4, Informative)
This is not true. From the Google official blog [blogspot.com]:
Parent
Remnants Of A Power Struggle (Score:3, Interesting)
that aren't keen to run their business on software that sounds like it's still in the trial phase.
This is the precise moment the last developer with a say in business, died at google. May they rest in peace.
The beta label issue has been around about as long as gmail itself, and every time they were asked about it, the answer was always the same: it's trial software. Because, IT WAS, and STILL IS.
Now we have google announcing on their own their graduation from beta, but for all the wrong reasons. The marketing heads had to make it known that they won. They should have just said, "it is now stable software." But no, that is what a responsible developer would say. They basically denounced the beta label being there in the first place, giving strategic reasons, and not technical ones. The worst part? If they had known better, they would have still pretended to be responsible developers.
They are idiots, and they are taking over. If I had google stock, I would sell it right about... NOW.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Beta or not... (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, but Google Apps uses your own domain name. Hence the reason why it was originally named "Google Apps for Your Domain". The name has since been shortened, but that fact still remains.
Parent