Slashdot Banner
Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
typodupeerror delete not in

Book Reviews

Recent reviews from Slashdot readers:

Submitting a review for consideration is easy; please first read Slashdot's book review guidelines. Updated: 2008114 by samzenpus

Comments: 311 +-   UK ISP Disconnects Customers For File Sharing on Friday July 24, @10:27AM

Posted by kdawson on Friday July 24, @10:27AM
from the one-strike-and-you're-dead dept.
internet
think_nix writes "Karoo, an ISP in Hull, in the UK, is disconnecting subscribers without warning if they file-share, or are even suspected of file-sharing. Karoo is the only ISP in the area. Copyright owners are working with the ISP helping them identify and report suspected filesharers using their services. In order to get service restored, subscribers have to go to Karoo's office and sign a form admitting guilt and promising not to do it again. The article states that some subscribers have had their access cut off for more than two years." Update: 07/24 16:29 GMT by KD : The Register is reporting that Karoo has relented and has changed its policy. A spokesman said: "It is evident that we have been exceeding the expectation of copyright owners..."
story

Related Stories

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • I guess they don't know about file caching...
  • by Drakkenmensch (1255800) on Friday July 24, @10:30AM (#28807669)
    Get the IP address of the Karoo president, and denounce him to the Karoo tech as the originator of suspicious copyrighted file sharing. Hilarity ensues.
    • by CopaceticOpus (965603) on Friday July 24, @10:56AM (#28808071)

      Alternately, park outside his house and/or outside the Karoo offices, hack into a wireless router, and download as much music as you can.

      I particularly like the idea of some Karoo tech setting some options to block a reported IP, and then asking, "Hey, did our network go down?"

      • by Drakkenmensch (1255800) on Friday July 24, @12:29PM (#28809427)

        Alternately, park outside his house and/or outside the Karoo offices, hack into a wireless router, and download as much music as you can.

        Make sure that you download as much Hannah Montana, Vanilla Ice, Kriss Kross and Alvin and the Chimpmunks Sing Christmas Carols as you possibly can. When people see what he's been 'downloading', it should be the most embarassing mess of awful music the world has ever seen.

  • by nicolas.kassis (875270) on Friday July 24, @10:31AM (#28807675)
    I can't understand that, if theirs only one ISP it should be a requirement to maintain at least basic service. Considering how much government business is moving online, this is now a requirement to function.
    • Since government business is moving online, then the government should be the one required to ensure people have access to it. Most libraries these days has free internet access, so that issue is resolved.

      The problem when requiring independent businesses to supply a basic service in any eventuallity has caused issues. Two examples of this is that the water services in the UK cannot cut you off for non-payment of your bills - the downside to this is that a lot of people know that, and simply refuse to pay anyway.

      The second example is that the government recently stopped paying Local Housing Allowance to private landlords (where the person entitled to the housing allowance was in private rented accomodation rather than social housing) and started paying it to the entitled person instead.

      This was done in an effort to increase the individuals ability to manage their own finances. What it actually accomplished was the situation where many landlords were not getting paid, because the person receiving the allowance was instead spending the money on alcohol, tobacco and luxury goods.

      THe problem is, its a long process to evict a tenant that isn't paying, and a longer one to evict a tenant that is already receiving housing benefit. So private landlords are paying the price for the government policy change.

      So now, the council register of private landlords willing to house Local Housing Allowance recipients has shrunk by as much as 90% in two years.

      The phone companies can cut off your telephone line, theres no reason why your internet connection is any more special.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Not even close to a 'right', how do you figure it is? Even with government having a stronger presence online, there are still offices people can walk into, real people to interact with - it's just not as instant as online and someone, *gasp*, may have to wait in line. Seriously, having access to the internet is not a right in any way, shape, or form. As much as we nerds/geeks may like to think otherwise, you don't die if you can't access the world wide web.
              • Bullshit. I suppose people 25 years ago couldn't learn anything because they had no access to the internet, eh? I suppose people 10 years ago couldn't do much of anything either because the internet was small and slow, eh?

                10 years ago...

                * My phone company published a pretty decent phone directory, which was delivered to my door. It included listings for the entire city.
                * 411 was free on pay phones and only 25 cents from my landline. (A while before that, it was free from the landline too.) Now it costs $3.49 each time we call 411. (Unless we use GOOG-411... but I found out about that on the internet.)
                * I could dial 853-1212 and check the time to set my clocks.
                * There were pay phones all over the place, and for 25 cents I could talk as long as I wanted to local numbers. The phones had phone books attached in many cases.
                * Local businesses stocked all manner of items that were rarely needed, because when they were needed, they were the only way of getting them in the area.
                * You could use a telephone to enroll in your classes at the largest public university in the largest state in the US. (A year later it was all online.)

                Things have changed a lot in the last 10 years. If you have internet access (and everyone on this thread likely does) you wouldn't notice it as much... but there's a LOT that doesn't exist anymore because you can get it easier online.

    • Yeah, I like that. Taxpayers are obligated to subsize unrestricted file sharing. That'll go over big in ANY country.

      • There is a big difference here. If you lose your license, it's because a court took it away. The government has to prove you are no longer worthy of that right and you have the chance to defend yourself. With Hull, no proof is required, only an accusation, and you don't get to defend yourself.
  • Legal CYA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Etrias (1121031) on Friday July 24, @10:37AM (#28807793)
    What struck me about this whole thing is the alleged file-sharer has to sign a document admitting guilt and then the promise that they wouldn't do it again.

    Seems awfully heavy handed to me, not to mention legally tricky for those who are accused. What's to say that by signing that document, they won't open themselves up to legal motions by the multinational entertainment companies.
  • I don't understand (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pauljlucas (529435) on Friday July 24, @10:39AM (#28807823) Homepage Journal
    I don't understand why ISPs want to be in the business of policing their users: it costs money to do that. It also costs them lost revenue for cutting off users. Why don't the ISPs just say "It's not our problem" to the copyright holders presumably just as the Postal Service would say if people were sending copyrighted documents, CDs, or DVDs through the mail.
    • by Attila Dimedici (1036002) on Friday July 24, @10:44AM (#28807887)
      Because the ISP's want to be in the business of being copyright holders. ISP's are trying to apply the cable TV business model to the Internet. I hope they fail. I think they will, but am concerned about some things I have been seeing that seem to indicate that they are having some success.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        [T]he ISP's want to be in the business of being copyright holders.

        Copyrights to what? They don't produce music or movies. How can they hold a copyright if they don't produce anything?

    • by girlintraining (1395911) on Friday July 24, @10:45AM (#28807903)

      I don't understand why ISPs want to be in the business of policing their users: it costs money to do that. It also costs them lost revenue for cutting off users.

      You're assuming it costs more money to police them than it does to kick off the heavier bandwidth users and then have a larger profit margin. 90% of the users pay for the 10% who use bandwidth heavily. Get rid of the 10% and profits soar. Ah, but you assume internet access is a regulated public utility and so they have to be fair and impartial? Te-he. Silly techie, trix are for kids!

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        90% of the users pay for the 10% who use bandwidth heavily.

        So either state in the contract that there is a bandwidth cap (and enforce it) or charge more for more bandwidth. Their policy should be bandwidth-based and not content-based. That also happens to be a lot simpler to enforce.

        • by Tony Hoyle (11698) <tmh@nodomain.org> on Friday July 24, @11:53AM (#28808855) Homepage

          Which whould you buy?

          Unlimited internet £19.99*
          50gb/month internet £19.99

          * Subject to FUP, and we won't tell you it's 50gb/mo anywhere.

          90% of people will go for the first. It's all about perception.

          IMO it should be illegal to use the term unlimited when it clearly isn't, but that's the way the law stands at the moment.

          Worse, what's started happening is people are complaining about the FUPs, so they're being rewritten with no cap just a vague paragraph about protecting other users. Competition is forcing the prices down to the point that it's hard to make a profit on normal usage let alone heavy usage, so you've got unlimited services with no written cap, massively oversubscribed and underpriced.

          In that situation kicking off the high volume users is all they have left.. they've backed themselves into a corner.

  • The summary is incorrect. They still have the option to use dialup from some other company, or satellite.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 24, @10:42AM (#28807865)

    At first I thought they would disconnect me for sharing ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso . Then when the summary mentioned copyright owners, I wasn't so sure. Then the summary mentioned "admitting guilt", what guilt?

  • Silly Karoo (Score:5, Funny)

    by fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) on Friday July 24, @10:42AM (#28807867) Journal
    Apparently "kangaroo court" is now "karoo court"...
  • Bad summary (Score:5, Informative)

    by ServerIrv (840609) on Friday July 24, @10:53AM (#28808033)

    From the Summary:
    "The article states that some subscribers have had their access cut off for more than two years." WRONG.

    From the Article:
    "The terms and conditions Karoo enforce are not new - the BBC has spoken to customers whose accounts were suspended over two years ago." In actuality, this only means that the enforcement of this policy has been in use for over two years, not that actual customers have been without internet access for that time duration.

  • by wjousts (1529427) on Friday July 24, @10:57AM (#28808087)
    well, guilty actually, since there doesn't seem to be any provision for proving your innocence. So, guilty until admitted guilty.
  • Or... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Friday July 24, @11:09AM (#28808249)

    subscribers have to go to Karoo's office and sign a form admitting guilt and promising not to do it again.

    How about going to their office en masse and burning it down?

  • by lobiusmoop (305328) on Friday July 24, @11:40AM (#28808673) Homepage

    according to this independent ratings site [dslzoneuk.net].

  • It is evident, yes. (Score:4, Informative)

    by aaandre (526056) on Friday July 24, @12:07PM (#28809105)

    "It is evident that we have been exceeding the expectation of copyright owners..."

    Sit!

    Fetch!

    Good boy!

    • Re:A modest proposal (Score:4, Informative)

      by MozeeToby (1163751) on Friday July 24, @10:35AM (#28807751)

      Or you could try to make a comment that is interesting, insightful, and/or informative like everyone else who wants to maintain their karma. It isn't really that hard, and that goes for everyone looking to get the karma bonus. The biggest thing is to be patient and wait until you have something interesting to contribute, rather than feeling like you need to comment at every opportunity.

      • Interesting? Insightful? Informative?

        From BadAnalogyGuy? His sole purpose is to give us witty analogies, which, true to his name, are terrible – although it sometimes requires a bit of inspection to find what is so glaringly wrong (thus their brilliance: what should be glaringly obvious is not always so obvious at first). They're puzzles... brain teasers... just like his post here. His insight lies not in his straightforward posts, but in the bad analogies themselves!

        Asking for interesting, insightful

            • by MozeeToby (1163751) on Friday July 24, @12:24PM (#28809359)

              Not trying to belittle the problem of moderators censoring what they don't agree with, but have you tried posting on sites that use different moderation schemes? Slashdot is well above average when it comes to giving all sides a voice, probably because the relative scarcity of mod points encourages people to mod up rather than mod down. It's a lot like democracy being a horrible form a government (but the best one that we've found); Slashdot's moderation system allows for abuse and community censorship, but it is the best system I've seen on the Internet.

      • Real /.ers browse with no threshold and no karma modifiers. Helps you build those nice mental filters against low temperature urination. On the plus side you also get to read some of the quite inventive trolls posted.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          I agree, I read at -1 exclusively. I do lament at the quality of the trolls though...the good ones are few and far between these days.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      "That's a blatant infringement on one's human rights, which states that everyone is entitled to a fair trial." -- You sure about that? A 'fair' trial isn't a basic human right, it isn't necessary for life, it's a great concept that's put into practice. I think you're projecting the idealistic notions from "Western Civilization" (the USA and Europe) onto what you *think* should be a global truth.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        A 'fair' trial isn't a basic human right, it isn't necessary for life

        Due process has been considered a basic human right for at least 800 years [wikipedia.org] now. The US constitution (I know, not where the article takes place) also enumerates it as such.

        I don't know about you, but I'd consider not being arbitrarily locked up in a prison a right. It seems very basic to me.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Fair trial clauses are usually in criminal cases only. This is a business relationship, where businesses usually reserve the right to cancel service at any time.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        but in a world where genocides and starvation and slavery still occur, to speak about "human rights" about internet access is overly pompous

        So because someone else's life sucks we can't improve our own?

      • Generally, I agree with you. Government should not unduly interfere with business relationships. Businesses should be, mostly, free to decide who they do business with.

        But, when you talk about utilities that have government granted monopolies on running cable through rights-of-way to all the buildings in a geographic area, and no one else is permitted to compete by running their own cables, then its a different story. Such a business should be subject to government regulation, including reasonable regulatio

          • Re:so? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Shakrai (717556) on Friday July 24, @10:53AM (#28808043) Journal

            In the U.S., you typically have both the cable company and the phone company vying for Internet business.

            WTF are you basing this on? DSL only ranges about 15,000 to 18,000 feet from the DSLAM. There are huge swaths of land that don't receive DSL service, even in fairly suburban areas. The telco can install remote DSLAMs if they want to but many don't make the effort because there aren't enough potential customers in the area to justify the expense.

            There are many areas where the cableco is your only choice. Worse, the cableco knows this. In my area you can usually get Time Warner to lower your rate if you threaten to move to DSL -- but if you live in an area where DSL isn't an option they refuse any sort of rate deal because they know they have you by the balls.

            You are also discounting the remote areas that have DSL service but are stuck with slow service because of the distance and/or provider policy. I can get DSL where I live -- at a whooping 1.5mbit/s for the same price that Time Warner can deliver 8.0mbit/s. 1.5 isn't really enough to watch decent quality video. So I'm stuck with Time Warner even though DSL is an option.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Because they're not throwing you in jail -- all they're doing is cutting off your service, which I'm pretty sure they're allowed to do even in the UK.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            AFAIK, it's NOT illegal to refuse to do business with someone, as long as it's not based upon race or gender or religious affiliation. I imagine the UK has similiar laws -- they might have additional laws on sexual orientation; don't have those in the US.

            According to Australian contract law, a provider can refuse to sell a service but they must provide a reason if the potential customer requests it. This reason however may be "you did not meet $PROVIDER criteria", they are required to give these reasons b

    • by JSBiff (87824) on Friday July 24, @11:26AM (#28808487) Journal

      "IP2P is used exclusively to STEAL"

      Wrong. True, a lot of people use it to steal. That's unfortunate. But there *are* legitimate uses of P2P technologies. I've used BitTorrent to download perfectly legal ISO's of Linux distros (Ubuntu provides links to the torrent right on the Ubuntu website, though you do have to hunt a little bit to find them). Same with OpenOffice.org. IIRC, Fedora also provides a torrent of the Fedora ISOs.

      There was an HD 'tv' show, a couple years ago, called MariposaHD. The producers of the show distribute it exclusively by BitTorrent (it's still available if you care to check it out - it's mostly eye candy - some guys going to different South/Central American countries and taking HD footage of scenery and chicks - lots of chicks lol). The reason I mention it, is that I think there is real potential, in the future, for using P2P technologies to legally distribute HD content. I'd like to see more online video services perhaps adopt more P2P technologies - there's no reason a for-profit company couldn't potentially use P2P to increase their market reach and profitability.

      Blizzard uses BitTorrent to push out updates for World of Warcraft.

      There is a LOT of potential for P2P data distribution to be used both legally and productively. Unfortunately, so many people have the mindset you do, that they fail to realize the potential of P2P. It can dramatically reduce an online publishers costs in terms of how much bandwidth they have to buy in order to provide content to huge numbers of customers. It scales well with demand (the more people downloading in a P2P network, particularly with BitTorrent, but other protocols as well, the more other peers there are to download from).

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Which part of "sole provider" and "monopoly" did you choose to ignore?

      Karoo are the only ISP in Hull.

      Hull is not in fucking London.

    • Isn't that why you pay for bandwidth? If a company advertises I can buy 5 liters of Coke a week for $2, and I drink five liters of Coke a week, and pay my $2, who are they to complain that I'm drinking more than my fair share of Coke? If they cannot afford to actually provide me 5 liters/week for $2, then they should change their advertising and product offering to something more reasonable.

        • A reasonable interpretation of unlimited, in the context of a connection which has an advertised bandwidth limit (i.e. 10mbps down/2mbps up) is that you are limited to the amount of available bandwidth advertised. If I pay for 2mbps up, I'm not really paying for 'unlimited', but I do expect to be able to upload 2mbps without being told I'm consuming 'too much' bandwidth.

          Such customers aren't using 'unlimited', they are using the bandwidth that was advertised and which they payed for. When ISPs bring up argu

    • by jimicus (737525) on Friday July 24, @12:06PM (#28809095) Homepage

      It's not quite as simple as that.

      We don't have a DMCA and as far as I am aware, the ISP cannot be sued by the content provider for allowing copyright infringement.

      So, why does the ISP police its users like this? Simple. The content industry went to the government and said "waah waah piracy is costing us billions every week!" and the government came back with an ultimatum to ISPs: "do something about it or we'll pass a law forcing you to".

      Now we have a situation where instead of this policing following a law (which at least generally has the good grace to deal with such things as providing a due process and an appeals procedure), it's based on your contract with your ISP which they can rewrite on a whim.

      I think I'd have preferred the law.

It is not best to swap horses while crossing the river. -- Abraham Lincoln