10/GUI — an Interface For Multi-Touch Input 344
Naznarreb writes "R. Clayton Miller has an extremely impressive GUI concept he's calling 10/GUI (video; written description here). Essentially, it combines the high-bandwidth input possibilities of multi-touch interfaces with the ease and immediacy of a mouse. The video is quite interesting, and, for me at least, pretty jaw dropping. This is a dramatic re-imagining of the current mouse/screen schema, one that I think has significant potential."
Re:Not for desktop pc's, but (Score:4, Informative)
it's not easy to just move your finger by one pixel
Place finger on surface, then roll finger without lifting or dragging it. I do that all the time on my laptop's trackpad. Besides, you don't need to use pixels as the fundamental unit of movement if your input device can detect movements smaller than a pixel. Putting something at a subpixel position is even easier with modern GPUs (and even Intel GMAs) that power compositing window managers.
It would also be quite impossible to play FPS or other kinds of games with this type of setup.
Even RTS or rail shooters?
Re:Not for desktop pc's, but (Score:3, Informative)
the final few seconds of the vid shows it as a suppliment to a keyboard (below it)
so while you're using WASD for movement you can still use the pad like a mouse
OR you can use the left hand for movement on the pad (splitting the left side into Forward/back/left/right sections) totally ignoring the keyboard. Combine it with it's own thin screen below it to display custom click areas, and boom! FPS.
Could even replace the keyboard in that case
Re:It's an interesting implementation (Score:5, Informative)
I use a track pad all day. It's no problem. I even still have fingerprints.
Not quite.... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:It's an interesting implementation (Score:5, Informative)
Apple's multitouch trackpads on their current notebook lines have it right. In fact, they are so good that I wish they would sell a stand alone trackpad to add onto a desktop keyboard. Using gestures to scroll around a window and two finger click or hold and drag are often much faster than moving around with a mouse.
Not that I would ever get rid of a mouse, except (potentially) on a media system with a limited physical keyboard.
Re:going in circles (Score:1, Informative)
You're at most half right. The FingerWorks TouchStream didn't exactly fail in the market, but it certainly wasn't a great success as a standalone product. One reason was the price, between $300 and $400. The other, which supports your point, is that a flat surface with no tactile feedback (other than homing bumps) simply isn't great for typing -- in general, even the most enthusiastic and dedicated user could expect TouchStream typing speeds around 50% to 70% as fast as those on a conventional keyboard.
The overriding win for the TouchStream, and the one that earned it such user loyalty, was ergonomic. Some people's wrists and hands are so injured from conventional keyboards that they can't use them any more at any useful speed, at least without excruciating pain. With the TouchStream, you get "zero-force" typing -- you don't have to press down at all. Better yet, and most important in my case, you don't have to reach away from the keyboard to use the mouse. That movement was what was causing my wrist trouble; the TouchStream erased it in weeks, after years of low-level pain and annoyance.
I still use my TouchStream exclusively on my work desktop. It drives me crazy sometimes, but I'm not willing to give it up, and I'll be VERY unhappy when it finally gives up the ghost. Unless, of course, there's something better to replace it by then.
Re:going in circles (Score:2, Informative)
FingerWorks' primary product was just like what 10/GUI describes: a multitouch surface that could either replace they keyboard or the mouse(pad). It largely failed in the market.
Personally, I feel that it largely failed because it attempted to replace a keyboard with a device that had no tactile feedback. Despite my best efforts I could never get anywhere close in typing speed (and my error rate went WAY up).
However, the actual multi-touch navigation improvements were awesome. Part of the reason I tried so damn hard to learn to type well on it (and I never could) was because of all the other benefits it offered.
MP:H for the DS (Score:3, Informative)
It would also be quite impossible to play FPS or other kinds of games with this type of setup.
Have you ever played Metroid Prime: Hunters on the DS? It could work very well. I don't see any problems with gaming on a touchscreen. The keyboard placement issue is the only real problem I can see.
Re:Overhyped (Score:3, Informative)
They did, but not enough people bought it.
Youtube video [youtube.com]
This keyboard is much, much better than a normal keyboard+mouse combo. But it takes more than a few minutes to learn, and it was always low volume, so they weren't a huge commercial success.
Re:going in circles (Score:3, Informative)
Have you ever actually used a Fingerworks TouchStream?
I have, for years, and you're simply wrong: typing on a TouchStream requires less force than typing on a mechanical keyboard.
It's "touch" for a reason. You don't press, you touch.
Re:going in circles (Score:3, Informative)
I disagree: the keyboard and mouse do not work really well. What they are is really easy to start using, and good enough.
The TouchStream takes at least a month or two to get used to. Most people spent that long getting started with a keyboard, and aren't willing to invest the time again learning a new device. Nor is there any pressing need except for power users.
For those power users, though, the TouchStream presents a potentially big[1] boost to productivity and comfort. At least, that's what I found.
[1] Where "big" is ~20%. That's only big if you're working 8 hours a day...
Re:Not for desktop pc's, but (Score:1, Informative)
"I switched from VI to emacs about 10 years ago primarily because of emacs' ability to manage multiple windows (by which I mean buffers in this post, not separate X windows)"
Vim can manage multiple buffers without any problems. You might want to reconsider your turn to the dark side.
Re:Not for desktop pc's, but (Score:3, Informative)
Re:All 10 fingers (Score:3, Informative)
It's not the number of fingers that makes playing piano hard. It's the combinations. The chords are the hard part. Also the independent use of each finger. An interface like this and most other multi-touch interfaces use simple clenching or releasing motions. These are movements that anyone with fully functional hands will have already mastered. They are baby movements.
As for FPS games I don't see the issues I'd say my finger tip is roughly the size of a baddies head. Panning would be a breeze. Group selection in RTS games would be much nicer. If you combined this with a pen for drawing then I could easily see a mouse becoming obsolete.
As for palm interference I doubt that is a hard thing to treat as noise in the input.
The biggest problem is replacing a keyboard. That wont happen any time soon. Though for many tasks (like Gimp/Photoshop, or 3D animation) you could replace the small key combos with larger key areas. Replace 3D mice with circular panning areas and such. I would prefer that the touch screen to display an abstraction of the interface -- window outlines, key areas. Nothing too detailed and distracting -- maybe an e-ink level display.