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Mozilla The Military Software

French Military Contributes To Thunderbird 3 379

Posted by kdawson
from the mais-oui-l'oiseau dept.
fredboboss sends news about Mozilla's email client Thunderbird 3, whose release we noted last week. "Thunderbird 3 contains code from the French military, which decided the open source product was more secure than Microsoft's rival Outlook. The French government is beginning to move to other open source software, including Linux instead of Windows and OpenOffice instead of Microsoft Office. Thunderbird 3 used some of the code from TrustedBird, a generalized and co-branded version of Thunderbird with security extensions built by the French military."
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French Military Contributes To Thunderbird 3

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:29PM (#30427324)

    Thunderbird just surrendered to Outlook on my computer. Now it's even helping Outlook import old messages.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:36PM (#30427378)
      For sale: WW II era French rifle. Never used, only dropped once.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by jggimi (1279324)
        In the Great War, new technologies in small arms was brought to the field: The American Springfield, the British Enfield, the French Lebel, and the German Mauser. Many of these arms, and the internal technologies and engineering used, were seminal. One can find arms made today with designs that are rooted directly in features from some of these weapons.

        Among collectors of WWI memorabilia, it is generally considered that the Springfield is the superior target rifle, the Mauser the superior hunting rifle,

    • by Rising Ape (1620461) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:52PM (#30427462)

      TraceMonkey, SeaMonkey... SurrenderMonkey?

    • Damn you! (Score:3, Funny)

      by WiiVault (1039946)
      Excuse me. Are you suggesting the French give up easy? Alright you win.
    • I'm going to love this one. How are the patriotic American geeks going to respond? US military goes with Microsoft products, French military supports open source....

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14, 2009 @04:30AM (#30429140)

      Wow... really? A whole thread of bashing the French? Are you really that pathetic?

  • by Kloplop321 (1610287) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:32PM (#30427348)
    I would guess that it means a lot for a country's defense administration to move over to Open Source. I've never heard of TrustedBird before this, but it seems a WHOLE lot more secure than Outlook is. I use Thunderbird personally.
    • by v1 (525388) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @11:00PM (#30427814) Homepage Journal

      MS has a reputation for adding security as an afterthought, which almost always makes for very poor quality security. The whole "secure by design" concept just isn't part of their general dev cycle. Looks like this TrustedBird is taking an already solid base and hardening it, which is not necessarily the ideal way to go, but certainly beats the alternative of trying to harden something that's very soft to start with.

      Kudos to them for open sourcing it.

      • MS has a reputation for adding security as an afterthought, which almost always makes for very poor quality security. The whole "secure by design" concept just isn't part of their general dev cycle.

        Supposedly Microsoft "learned their lesson" back in 2002, and Bill Gates loudly trumpeted Microsoft's "Trustworthy Computing" initiative back then...

        “As problems with [its approach to software development] have surfaced over the years, Microsoft patched the utility or application in question rather than reconsidering the basic architecture which left these avenues of attack open,” comments Dan Kusnetzky, director of worldwide operating environments for IDC. “Since Microsoft users have been

      • by TapeCutter (624760) * on Monday December 14, 2009 @12:25AM (#30428232) Journal
        "trying to harden something that's very soft to start with"

        French women have exceptional skills in that department.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Eunuchswear (210685)

        Kudos to them for open sourcing it.

        Shh, don't tell the BSD license fans, the GPL works as intended.

    • by dbIII (701233) on Monday December 14, 2009 @12:47AM (#30428326)

      I've never heard of TrustedBird before this, but it seems a WHOLE lot more secure than Outlook is.

      That's not saying much.
      Britney Spears underwear is a lot more secure than Outlook.

  • by syousef (465911) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:36PM (#30427372) Journal

    Take a look at some of the footage of those French fighter jocks doing terrain avoidance at a few feet high. Incredible.

    As for thunderbird the email program, I like some things about 3, and not others. I'm glad the devs allow you to switch the old toolbar back on. Much better than the Mozilla Firefox attitude of forcing you into changes you don't want to make.

    • I'm glad the devs allow you to switch the old toolbar back on. Much better than the Mozilla Firefox attitude of forcing you into changes you don't want to make.

      They force you to upgrade?

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Nimey (114278)

        Security fixes aren't around forever for old branches, so essentially yes.

        • You can't expect them to maintain old versions forever. Besides, you're always free to backport FF3's applicable security fixes to FF2 on your own, if you really want to keep using FF2 that much.

          (I don't usually like "do it yourself" as a response to "it's missing a bugfix/feature/whatever", but in the case of no-longer-supported open source software I think it's acceptable.)

          • by Nimey (114278)

            Haven't the time or the programming chops, and I don't care enough to pay someone to maintain an old branch.

            It's a bit different with, say, Debian, who will happily apply security fixes to old software for a few years, but when one is running Windows (in an institutional environment, say), that's not really an option.

      • They force you to upgrade?

        Install Firefox 2 and see how often you get nagged to upgrade. Then there's the fact that security fixes are only released for the latest browser, extensions don't support the old version etc.

        I'd love to have Firefox 1.0 co-exist with 3.0 but it'd be a pain in the neck to run with all the nagging.

  • At Least... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Nemyst (1383049) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:36PM (#30427382) Homepage
    At least some government agencies seem to understand that open source CAN be secure, stable and worthwhile. More power to them I say, they're quite forward-thinking on those matters it seems.

    If only more could see that! With every new user, especially military organizations and government agencies, there are more bug fixes, more patches and more useful features added into the open source projects they use. That in turn makes the projects more appealing, more competitive and generally better, which closes the loop by enticing more to adopt it. We just need to get the ball rolling and, most importantly, to break old notions of open source being garage-geek-type material; I think we've seen all around us that we've evolved from that point.
    • Re:At Least... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Brian Gordon (987471) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @10:26PM (#30427618)

      I wouldn't mention OpenOffice while talking about how secure, stable, and worthwhile OSS can be. This is really only meaningful because people are starting to wake up and realize there are superior alternatives out there. But that doesn't apply to OO - OpenOffice is freer but it's not better. OpenOffice is a total mess of staggeringly bloated Java components. It's by far the most sluggish, memory-devouring application on my machine and integrates badly with my GTK theme. And there aren't any good ideas in OO, it's like someone bought Office 2003, made a list of features they saw, and tried to implement as many as possible throwing everything together without any kind of purpose or vision other than to take as much market share as possible away from MS office.

      Gnumeric and AbiWord, on the other hand, are actually usable. The project knows what it wants, and continually refines toward that purpose, while OpenOffice scrambles to throw in new features every time someone discovers a use case that Office handles and they don't. A good sign that a project is maturing is when someone asks for a relevant feature that makes sense, and the project says no. I don't think openoffice has ever said no.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by zippthorne (748122)

        A good sign that a project is maturing is when someone asks for a relevant feature that makes sense, and the project says no.

        That doesn't sound very mature to me.

      • Re:At Least... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by JanneM (7445) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @11:50PM (#30428066) Homepage

        "Gnumeric and AbiWord, on the other hand, are actually usable."

        +1 on Gnumeric. It's the best spreadsheet app I've used (and I tend to use a lot of numerical and symbolic math stuff for work).

        AbiWord, on the other hand, does have some potential, but they're still missing fundamental features like the ability to actually write using CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) scripts, something just about every other app of any kind out there can handle by now.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by adamrut (799143)

        OpenOffice is a total mess of staggeringly bloated Java components. It's by far the most sluggish, memory-devouring application on my machine and integrates badly with my GTK theme.

        I think this is a bit of an exageration. I use OpenOffice on XP at work and OSX at home and find that performance is at an acceptable level. Everything that I need to do in an office suite I can do in OpenOffice and I've found with each release it's slowly improving.

        And there aren't any good ideas in OO, it's like someone bought Office 2003, made a list of features they saw, and tried to implement as many as possible throwing everything together without any kind of purpose or vision other than to take as much market share as possible away from MS office.

        There are a lot of good ideas, they're just not original ideas but this is not unique to OpenOffice. It's not as polished as MS Office but I don't find it as thrown together as you're implying.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by bcmm (768152)

        OpenOffice is a total mess of staggeringly bloated Java components.

        OpenOffice is written in C++. The Java bits are optional (I don't use them, though I use Gentoo and it may be harder to disable them completely on other platforms).

        Now, I'm not saying OpenOffice isn't a bloated mess, but have you tried MS Office? It's kinda another bloated mess.

    • > If only more could see that!

      Careful. If it becomes very important to them they may decide they need to control it.

  • by camperslo (704715) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:40PM (#30427408)

    Doing away with all of the potential HTML, javascript, Java, Flash etc vulnerabilities by having a forced plain text only mode would sure help with security and privacy issues.

    • by gzipped_tar (1151931) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:56PM (#30427478) Journal
      Use the about:config editor. Come on, you're a slashdotter and should know better.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      You already can set Thunderbird to run operate only in text mode (for 2.0 at least).

      ToolBar -> view -> message body as -> Plain Text

      +

      Tools -> Options -> composition -> General -> Send Options -> Text Format = Convert the message to plain text
      (or = Send the message in both plain text and HTML)

  • by Andorin (1624303) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:44PM (#30427426)
    Score one for the French. Proprietary software does not belong on the computer systems of any significant (ie, state or national) government. Access to source code is necessary in order to ensure that secrets remain secret and the software is up to any custom tasks the government might require.

    This [archive.org] is a letter written by a representative of Peru's government to a representative of Microsoft in 2002, explaining to MS exactly why the government feels that free software is necessary on their computers. Not only does it provide some insightful reasons as to why they're using FOSS, but you get a chance to laugh at the Microsoft rep's arguments. ;)
    • by John Hasler (414242) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:49PM (#30427454) Homepage

      > Access to source code is necessary in order to ensure that secrets remain
      > secret and the software is up to any custom tasks the government might
      > require.

      That is, unfortunately, not a strong argument for Free Software as governments (and other large organizations) often can and do purchase access to proprietary source code.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Andorin (1624303)
        Well, there are other arguments too, such as the principle of using open software on publicly owned computers versus closed software. Access to source code is simply the one that came to my mind the quickest.

        Also, if a government really can buy access to source code, you could just file this as yet another expense saved by using open software. I can't imagine Microsoft charging a government a trivial amount for Windows source code.
      • by rsborg (111459) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @10:23PM (#30427604) Homepage

        That is, unfortunately, not a strong argument for Free Software as governments (and other large organizations) often can and do purchase access to proprietary source code.

        So let me ask you this, when Microsoft or Adobe, etc give these governments the "source code" do they allow compilation of the resulting binary from the given source... with deployment of that binary as production-level binary?

        The whole "shared source" concept fails when it comes to security because you can't VERIFY the source code is what you have in your binary unless you have the entire toolchain necessary to build, execute, and formally test the binaries you will deploy in your organization.

        • > So let me ask you this, when Microsoft or Adobe, etc give these governments
          > the "source code" do they allow compilation of the resulting binary from the
          > given source... with deployment of that binary as production-level binary?

          Why don't you ask the governments? They (nor Microsoft and Adobe) are certainly not about to tell me. I do know that some other software vendors do allow this.

          Personally, I use Free Software wherever I can, which is almost everywhere. However, I don't let my support fo

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by digitalchinky (650880)

          A decade ago when I was doing the whole military intelligence thing, the answer was no, it was just the source code. Maybe someone had the tool chain, but this is not particularly relevant or interesting since distribution was forbidden anyway, even internally. The 'concept' has nothing to do with internal verification and security inside the 'air-gap' - there is no failure at all - access to the source was certainly used for 'bug hunting' - just that it was perhaps not for the reasons you have assumed in y

      • That is, unfortunately, not a strong argument for Free Software as governments (and other large organizations) often can and do purchase access to proprietary source code.

        The key word there is "purchase" - with open source software the source code is (by definition) free. If $ORGANIZATION mentions "we can purchase access to Office 2003's source code", the simple response is "why purchase something you can get for free?" (Obviously that won't always work, but it's a counter-argument, at least.)

      • I read

        The military found Mozilla's open source design permitted France to build security extensions, while Microsoft's secret, proprietary software allowed no tinkering.

        So the French Military do not seem to have this access to the source code that you are talking about. Do you have first hand knowledge of Microsoft sharing Outlook code with governments and allowing them to build modified versions?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13, 2009 @09:51PM (#30427460)

    why it keeps quitting unexpectedly whenever I receive emails from Germany ;-).

  • by KlaasVaak (1613053) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @10:05PM (#30427516)
    The French Government really seem to get the hang of OSS every depeartment seems focused on using OSS like their entire justice department going ubuntu http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/french-police-saves-millions-of-euros-by-adopting-ubuntu.ars [arstechnica.com] and unlike the Germans(+1 million failed projects) or Dutch(going Microsoft everywhere despite promises and even laws(!) to go open source) etc they actually seem to be making progress
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13, 2009 @10:48PM (#30427744)

      Being french and working with various agencies, I can give a few more information.

      First, you should know that it's the military police (the gendarmerie) that switched to ubuntu, not the civilian police. The military have been using open source for years now and switching the gendarmerie is only one big step in a much bigger plan to move away from proprietary software. The justice department has not switched yet as far as I know.

      On the civil departments side, there is a division (the DCSSI http://www.ssi.gouv.fr/archive/en/dcssi/index.html) that push for open source software and good practices in use by the government. All departments are ordered to follow those recommendations where it makes sense. They don't recommend to drop existing proprietary solutions unless it saves money. They do recommend new solutions to be open source though. It seems they changed their name again in the recent months though, but their mission statement remains the same: http://www.ssi.gouv.fr/site_rubrique88.html

      Another impact this is having is the creation of various websites for public use. For example there is a website about computer security aimed to the general public: http://www.securite-informatique.gouv.fr/index.html

      In the central government the move to open source is already well in progress. But I can't say it's the same nationwide, yet.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      As stated in the previous anonymous comment, the code was contributed by the gendarmerie (military police), which is quite tech savvy and has a long history of using and advocating open source solutions. They previously switched all their office software to OpenOffice.org in 2005, and are currently migrating most of their Windows workstations to Ubuntu. But this effort is not so widespread ; there are both successes (like the budget and public accounting administration recently migrating from Outlook and N
  • ...know the software your enemy is using - then you can know your enemy.

  • One expert was less certain of that.

    "The professional market is showing more resistance to open source software," said Bernard-Louis Roques, chief executive of Truffle Capital IT, an investment fund specializing in software. [emphasis mine]

    Gee, I wonder what this Mr. Roques' bias might be...

    Cheers,

  • by Phrogman (80473) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @10:16PM (#30427576) Homepage

    If there is one thing that is certain in this world, its that if someone says "The French" or "France" within hearing of any US Citizen, the immediate response will be an endless string of "Surrender" or "SurrenderMonkey" Jokes.

    Caveat: I am not French just to clarify that. I am (English) Canadian, and I don't even particularly like the French myself.

    It gets awfully tiring to be reminded of just how fucking bigotted the US is in this way. You should get over yourselves already.
    Yes, the French got their asses kicked in WWII, whatever. Any nation invaded by Germany at that time would have suffered the same fate (and many of them did). You got your asses kicked in Vietnam, even if you don't want to admit it. You pulled your forces out before anyone had to surrender of course.

    All these jokes serve to accomplish is to remind me just how fucking ignorant, narrow minded, bigotted and offensive the US can be at times. They make you look like nothing more than a nation of assholes. Then you wonder why the peoples of many other nations find Americans offensive.

    Of course none of you seem to have enough education or enough wit to recall that during the Napoleonic period, France was the most respected and feared nation on earth. They conquered pretty much all of Europe and it took the combined might of England, The Austro-Hungarian Empire, Prussia, Russia and others to eventually defeat them after 20 years of warfare. At that point in time the US couldn't even carry out a successful invasion of Canada, and we (as the British) burnt the White House in response.

    I for one would like to see this fucking "meme" be laid to rest. It was always present but seems to have been resurrected when the French decided not to commit forces to the first Gulf War (because it wasn't authorized by the UN I believe).

    Now, queue all the responses from people calling me a "liberal", "faggot", "commie", "pinko" etc, because I criticized the US (I am none of those things by the way). What I am, is tired of seeing US citizens act like a bunch of fucking ignorant assholes, and then wondering why people think they are a bunch of fucking ignorant assholes :P

    Yes, yes I have met many very decent and nice Americans, they just don't seem to post in response to their fellow citizens offensive shit that crops up like this every few days.

    • by wronskyMan (676763) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @10:30PM (#30427644)
      Not going to call you a "liberal", "faggot", "commie", "pinko" etc but I will say you have a thin skin. There is a reason it's called a joke. Same reason we call Mac users gay and Southerners toothless.
    • NICE TRY. You can't restart a dead meme that easily, especially when the article is positive about France.
      Mod parent DOWN.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Sometimes, a joke is just a joke. No strings attached, no intent to offend, no distaste for others, just a comment made in jest. The same people that make the surrender jokes will often make fun of their own nation just as quickly.

      Try removing your head from your ass, you might see things a bit more clearly.

      • (squinting eyes) .....looks like poop! (sniffing it) ....Smells like poop! (chewing) ....tastes like poop! (righteous glory)....Good thing I didn't Step in It!
      • by mjwx (966435) on Monday December 14, 2009 @12:11AM (#30428170)
        But if you're going to make a joke, especially a derogatory joke (face it, the "French surrender" jokes are derogatory) at least make them original.

        I, like the GP and most people with half a brain are sick of the same tired old "France surrenders, huh, huh" jokes trotted out when even so much as a croissant is referenced. I saw one about Thunderbird crashing whenever it receives a message from Germany and thought that it was semi original enough to justify a funny rating but for the most part such comments are uninspired, unfunny, tired old surrender jokes being trotted out time and time again which we've all heard before.

        Maybe the comments are in jest, maybe someone has an anti-France agenda but if you do make derogatory comments in jest make sure they are funny, otherwise they just become annoying.

        BTW, at least don't display an ignorance of history, the French resistance did far more harm to the Nazi's then the Vichy collaborators did good for the Nazi's. Much of the early war intel, including several parts of "Ultra" came from resistance fighters who risked their lives and families lives to get that intel.
      • Naaaah (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Max Littlemore (1001285) on Monday December 14, 2009 @12:11AM (#30428174)

        The same people that make the surrender jokes will often make fun of their own nation just as quickly.

        Yeah , but Americans are pretty fucked when it comes to derogatory jokes about them. Like how they are such pussies they can't even go to war unless they pick on a country that can't defend itself against air power - and even then pimply nerds do most of it by remote control.

        The French surrendered against a kind of warfare that had only appeared very shortly before their invasion and then fought a very successful underground campaign against the aggressors, much like the Iraqis have done. Good on them. Beats a bunch of wusses that don't even have the balls to surrender properly to a bunch of midgets in black pajamas when they are licked, despite having all the jets, agent orange and napalm.

        I too know plenty of decent Americans, but this vocal peanut gallery makes me sick, especially this anti-French bullshit. Even Kiwis don't generally hang the same level of shit on them. You guys go on and on because they won't join you in your international armed robbery? Good on them for having some balls, even if they are the stinky cheese ball variety.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Johann Lau (1040920)

        "The same people that make the surrender jokes will often make fun of their own nation just as quickly."

        Bold claim, backed up by NOTHING, followed by insults. Anonymous, no less. Why does that not surprise?

        But while we're at it: what is "just a joke"? What meanings and functions can a joke have, which do apply here? "It's just a joke, shut up now" is just a feeble attempt by weak intellects to shut down any pondering/discussion of that.

        Specific members of the French military contributed specific code to Thu

      • by mctk (840035) on Monday December 14, 2009 @12:29AM (#30428248) Homepage
        I shoved my head back up my ass when I found out that the Freedom Fries people were serious.
    • by moz25 (262020) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @10:41PM (#30427698) Homepage

      Well, you don't hear many jokes about Poland, The Netherlands or Belgium being invaded by the Germans. Perhaps the French history as a great nation and the cultural arrogance that comes from that makes them more of a valid target to joke about.

      But with that said: the French were absolutely right about standing up to Bush against an unnecessary war. All they had to do was commit a symbolic number of troops to "fight" in some relatively peaceful outback region like other countries did. If only more people stood up to the false claims...

      Now, years later, we know that the primary achievement of the whole Iraq war effort has been to transform their country from a secular dictatorship to a theocratic dictatorship. This at the mere cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, thousands of US military lives and tens of thousands of civilian lives.

      So much for them Freedom Fries, eh...

      • Now, years later, we know that the primary achievement of the whole Iraq war effort has been to transform their country from a secular dictatorship to a theocratic dictatorship.

        It's worth mentioning that most American foreign interventions before Iraq had been for the purpose of removing democratically elected politicians and replacing them with pro-US dictators. The missions don't always succeed, but the outcome is always disastrous for the inhabitants.

        Next time a anyone mentions "liberating" a foreign country, think about the Philippines, Chile, Indonesia, El Salvador, Cuba, Nicaragua, Iran, Vietnam, Laos, Afghanistan, Guatemala, the Seminoles, and Haiti.
        I've probably missed a few in there, but anyone with a grasp of US history with regard to foreign interventions should be quite skeptical of any claims of "liberation" or "promoting democracy" abroad.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by drinkypoo (153816)

        But with that said: the French were absolutely right about standing up to Bush against an unnecessary war. All they had to do was commit a symbolic number of troops to "fight" in some relatively peaceful outback region like other countries did. If only more people stood up to the false claims...

        If this is the French version of standing up to Bush, then perhaps they deserve what other people say about them. A recent-ish survey I cannot currently locate claims that the French hate themselves more than anyone else does, so perhaps further they know something we don't. There is a lot of bad blood left over from war between the English and French, and Americans are more British than they know, having retained many of the attitudes and prejudices of that past. I can't help but notice that the USA and th

    • by Cassius Corodes (1084513) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @10:45PM (#30427724)
      Perhaps somewhat off-topic but I read somewhere that all this French = weak stuff started as allied propaganda to explain why the Nazis managed to beat such a powerful (and it was a world power at the time) country so easily. The thinking (according to this article or whatnot) was to keep up morale after such a disastrous outcome by essentially claiming that any other nation would have managed to fight them off but that the French are weak and gave up without a fight. Naturally the real reason was the blitzkrieg tactics combined with bypassing the majority of the French and English (they too where out in force as well) army by going thru the Ardennes (a forest region that the allies thought was not practical to pass thru). Its worth noting as well that every other European country attacked (including Russia at the start) pretty much collapsed under the blitzkrieg.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by khallow (566160)

        The thinking (according to this article or whatnot) was to keep up morale after such a disastrous outcome by essentially claiming that any other nation would have managed to fight them off but that the French are weak and gave up without a fight.

        It helps that this apparently was pretty much true. In the book, Collapse of the Third Republic [wikipedia.org], by William L. Shirer, the author not only discusses the military defeat in 1940, but also a number of political factors, some of which (eg, the Dreyfus affair [wikipedia.org]) preceded both world wars. My impression is that France became so politically divided (between liberal and conservative forces, much as is present in most if not all democratic countries) in the 30's that defeat of the political opposition was considered a

    • Actually I think you'll find that Kiwis, Aussies and especially the Brits enjoy the "surrender monkey" theme just as much. All of us (including Canada of course) sent troops to France on D-Day so I think we're entitled to a little fun. Perhaps Canadians are just too polite - eh?

    • It gets awfully tiring to be reminded of just how fucking bigotted the US is in this way.

      Apparently isn't not bigotry if you're the one doing it, right? Way to go.

    • Up your nose with a rubber hose ~Ubu Roi
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Mr Stubby (1122233)
      Dude, go see the world. Between the French ,the English and us Australians and to a lesser degree Americans (because they generally take jokes at their expense poorly) giving each other a ribbing all in good fun is just how we roll. It's always been the case and probably always will be. I'm never offended by a joke at Australia's expense from any of our "allies" so to speak, i often find it funnier than the joke teller. We're all comfortable that we are timeless friends with more in common than we differ an
    • by jensend (71114) on Monday December 14, 2009 @02:10AM (#30428616)

      Not that I think the jokes about the French are generally either funny or anything other than counterproductive, but they don't spring from Americans being "ignorant, narrow minded, [or] bigoted." They spring from the fact that France basically has never come to terms with the reality of what happened in WWII (see "Paris se libere!" [bbc.co.uk]), the rabid anti-Americanism which de Gaulle exhibited, and the many ways in which France has done things which are not only to its allies' disadvantage but also to its own disadvantage- for no other reason than to try to stick it to the Americans (and sometimes the Brits). I think the Macmillan paraphrase from that article is relevant- "France, he said, had made peace with Germany, had forgiven Germany for the brutality of invasion and the humiliation of four years of occupation, but it could never - never - forgive the British and Americans for the liberation."

      You can't really even make much of an attempt to joke about what happened to most of the countries Hitler invaded. But the French pride, arrogance, and rewriting of history have in the past made it easier for people to find jokes about the French to be palatable.

    • I am not an American, I'm actually from Zimbabwe. I promise you that Zimbabweans are as nasty and arrogant and superior as Americans in spite of all the s*** they are in at the moment. :-) I live in Britain and the British are arrogant and superior too, particularly going on all the time about how non arrogant and nice they are and how awesome their own sense of humour is. I see it because I am a foreigner and because when I go back to Zimbabwe I realise I have become a foreigner there too.

      You often don't n

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Rising Ape (1620461)

      Oh, I think you're pointing too much at the US here. We British have been doing anti-French jokes for a lot longer than that. Hardly something to get all excited about, and I'm sure the French have plenty of jokes of their own.

  • by magamiako1 (1026318) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @10:47PM (#30427738)
    I fail to see how anything on their list of features provides any more security over what can be obtained with a properly configured Exchange/Outlook system.
  • Encryption ... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dougmc (70836) <dougmc+slashdot@frenzied.us> on Sunday December 13, 2009 @11:31PM (#30427976) Homepage
    ... it wasn't that long ago that using encryption of any sort [kioskea.net] (except for signatures) by civilians was illegal in France. Seriously.

    Not really here nor there, just something to mention.

  • by roc97007 (608802) on Monday December 14, 2009 @01:07AM (#30428408) Journal

    ...even the French get it right sometimes.

  • by breon.halling (235909) on Monday December 14, 2009 @01:47AM (#30428532)
    Jules: What do they call Thunderbird?
    Vincent Vega: Thunderbird's Thunderbird, but they call it "le Thunderbird".
    Jules: "Le Thunderbird"! Ha ha ha ha! What do they call Outlook?"
    Vincent Vega: I dunno, I didn't use Windows.

All the simple programs have been written.

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