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Comments: 307 + - Technology: Recession Turning Software Auditors Into Greedy Traffic Cops on Friday January 08, @10:46PM
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judgecorp writes "As the recession bites, software auditors are cracking down, and some are simply exploiting loopholes and technicalities to meet their targets, according to analyst Forrester. They may be within their rights, but they aren't endearing themselves to users; Steve Ballmer faced weary customers in London last year, and admitted Windows licenses have deliberate 'gotchas.'"
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Easy solution. (Score:3, Insightful)
(2) Profit!
(1a) Outsource your work to domestic individuals who have the compatible software regardless of license legitimacy.
(2a) Don't shake their hands when you make a deal. Pay'em through some guy meeting them at an Italian restaurant every week. Stop showing up when they fail to deliver.
(3a) Wanna keep your house? 1a and 2a for you unemployed Americans whose baby food money is going towards military ammunition.
Re:Easy solution. (Score:5, Informative)
Shame you got modded troll. This is pretty insightful, though it should say "Outsource your work to a country which has lax tax laws."
One of the most unintentionally hilarious points in TFA is Steve Ballmer's comment;
Users such as the Government of the Isle of Man are already saving up to £120 per year using the beta version of Windows 7
The Isle of Man is largely an offshore tax haven with around 1,350 desktop computers for the entire government. If all of the promised "£100 per desktop per year" savings materialise, the IoM government will have saved a grand total of £135,000 by using beta software. So why would Ballmer be so interested in such a small deployment?
Accounts for Microsoft Ireland Research, an Irish subsidiary of the global software giant, show that the company paid just €460,000 in tax, on profits of more than €1.2 billion last year.
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/category/microsoft/ [taxresearch.org.uk]
That's 0.04% tax.
Still wondering why Microsoft is heavily involved in an offshore tax haven?
Even funnier, the IoM Government was an early supporter of Windows Vista, and claimed savings switching to that OS. Though only completing their rollout in October 2009, they were just in time to save even more money changing to Windows 7. If they keep making savings upgrading like that, pretty soon Microsoft'll be paying them for installing Windows.
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Re:Easy solution. (Score:4, Informative)
I'm posting AC because I do IT work for IOM gov. Your post is full of misinformation.
First of all it's disingenuous to represent the Isle of Man as a "tax haven". It's one of the few offshore jurisdictions that aren't on the US blacklist of tax havens and has tax information sharing agreements with anyone that matters. We don't have "lax tax laws". We're one of the only 3 jurisdictions whitelisted by the UK to conduct online gambling precisely because we have good regulation and anti-money laundering protection. And the overall level of tax burned on the IOM is about the same as the US.
Second. There are about 5000 desktop and laptop computers. Now you might not think such small numbers don't matter, but it's not the numbers, it's where they are. The IOM has everything you'd find in your average government, from the executive offices right down to sewage treatment, water utilities, power generation, hospitals, schools, roads, etc, etc. Only it's much smaller. So why does MS care? Because they can deploy their products across an entire and extremely varied organisation, and capture that in only 5000 machines.
As for the Vista/Windows 7 thing. The software is licenced through microsoft's rental scheme, so whether they stay on Windows XP or Windows 7 doesn't matter, they pay the same. The claimed savings were down to lower maintenance costs etc. Also after the deployment of Vista, the upgrade to Windows 7 (like all their application deployments) is through a system called SMS. It's deployed over the network, overnight and is completed with one reboot. No user settings are lost as they're all on network profiles.
I don't like MS as much as the next slashdotter, but you're talking about things you don't know. Stop.
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Re:Easy solution. (Score:4, Informative)
From Wiki;
The Isle of Man does not charge corporation tax, capital gains tax, inheritance tax or wealth tax. Personal income tax is levied at 10–18% on the worldwide income of Isle of Man residents, up to a maximum tax liability of £100,000. Banking income tax is levied on the profits of Isle of Man based banks at 10% and income from the rent of Isle of Man property is levied at the same rate.
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I just don't even open the door (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't use ANY proprietary software at my company. I own a software development company in Argentina. If I get an auditor (Auditions here are done by ARBA, the state-wide equivalent of the IRS in Buenos Aires) I just won't even open the door. Sue me if you want. I use NO privative software, and no one has any right to log in into my servers or workstations (We have ~40 machines at our offices).
Fuck them in the ass.
Re:I just don't even open the door (Score:5, Informative)
I don't use ANY proprietary software at my company.
This is great for anyone who can get free software to do their bidding. For everyone else, this really pushes free software into the limelight in a good way (e.g. - we'll use it until we see the value and THEN we'll pay for the "enterprise" support).
Adobe products apparently "phone home". My former employer was just approached by Adobe about some unlicensed copies on the network (the users have full admin rights, per most Windows environments). They settled out of court for $2 million (USD) but immediately dropped Adobe from the suite in favor of free software.
Kudos to Adobe for screwing themselves so bad.
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Re:I just don't even open the door (Score:4, Insightful)
They settled out of court for $2 million (USD) but immediately dropped Adobe from the suite in favor of free software.
Kudos to Adobe for screwing themselves so bad.
I'd hardly call getting a $2,000,000 check "screwing themselves". Especially since, if they hadn't -- as you say -- "screwed themselves" like that, they would have gotten nothing.
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Re:I just don't even open the door (Score:5, Insightful)
So they lost $20,000 present day value for $2,000,000 present day. Sounds like a good deal for Adobe.
Sure, until today's 200 employee shop turns into tomorrow's Google and the CEO decides that since he isn't going to buy Adobe but still needs the equivalent of their software, they're going to develop an equivalent, open source it and put Adobe out of business.
It's never a good idea to piss off your customers.
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Re:I just don't even open the door (Score:5, Insightful)
Pissing off "one customer", when you have millions, and when you can get money from that one customer with little or no blowback? Seems like a winning scenario to me.
Except its stories like this that keep me from using any adobe products and then recommending alternatives for any clients/friends/family when I can. While I alone have only cost them a few tens of thousand dollars in lost revenue I know there are thousands of others doing the same. So while it might be a winning scenario in that one instance it wont be in the long run.
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Roasting chestnuts (Score:5, Informative)
Here's a nice old story [cnet.com] about a Microsoft software user that got audited, sued, fined and dragged through the press. Apparently they sell guitars. Of course a loss for somebody is naturally a win [sun.com] for somebody else.
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Re:I just don't even open the door (Score:4, Interesting)
We seem to have fallen into a guilty until proven innocent beyond any doubt (no matter how unreasonable) system up here... How's the weather down there? If you guys have cheap internet, I'm willing to emmigrate...
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Re:I just don't even open the door (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree with that. Actually, there are many screwed up views on the US about many subjects. Argentina is far from being a paradise. We are a mess in many areas, but we are much more free. I have many friends from the states (Being a coder, you just make friends in all parts of the word), and I hear many talk about the land of the free. Freedom in the US is a scarce value. We are a lot more free down here. You can use drugs without the cops bothering you, People are not suing each other all the time, and you can actually live without a credit card, a bank account, and financial records. You can live in cash, without being chased, and just say 'fuck the government, I want my own little Anarchy". If you leave everyone alone, and don't expect anything from the government, they have no way of bothering you. That's the way I choose. I stay out of their way, and they stay out of mine. Sure, if you are into the game, they will fuck you up. But if you decide to play alone, you stand a chance.
About your questions, the weather is very nice, the place is beautiful (sort of European-looking, but with virtually unlimited natural resources, less people, lots of cheap land, and the best food in the world). About internet access, I'm paying 33 Dollars for unlimited 3G access anywhere in the country [coverage is pretty good, i have signal everywhere, even outside the cities], and 42 Dollars for a 4MB Cablemodem, that works pretty well.
Cheers.
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Re:I just don't even open the door (Score:5, Interesting)
The civil justice system has NEVER been an "innocent until proven guilty" system. Unlike criminal justice, civil justice is about "preponderance of evidence." Roughly, this means that whoever's case is more impressive, wins. You don't have to prove anything, you just have to be more convincing than the other guy. And if you don't try to defend yourself? You lose by default. This isn't new. It's always been this way.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
>They don't just show up and kick down your door.
Yes, they do.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=opera&rls=en&q=bsa+raid&btnG=Search [google.com]
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BMO
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
>So I stopped after the first page, but none of those had anything to do with the OP or the subject at hand.
First link.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312948,00.html [foxnews.com]
You lose, Pumpkin.
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BMO
Easy solution. (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't run Windows. "Software auditors" are just about unknown to users of any other platform.
-jcr
Re:Easy solution. (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly. On a somewhat related note, I think it would be interesting to see how the recession has affected the use of FOSS due to the necessity of cutting extraneous costs like software licenses.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Opinion only: Little to no effect yet. Most companies are trying to ride out the recession. (Read, management is still enjoying a nice paycheck, and most of their usual perks) When, and only when, management is looking at cuts to their own pay and/or benefits will they look at FOSS as an alternative. Then, there will be problems. All those donations to schools has ensured that most people only know the MS way of life, and it will cost to migrate to anything else.
But, if the recession isn't solved with
Re:Easy solution. (Score:4, Informative)
Microsoft hates that mentality. Therefore, they are moving to a subscription model with Office 2010. But they've got a tough road converting the huge base of Office 2000, XP, 2003, 2007 people who have a license into infinity.
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Re:Easy solution. (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Easy solution. (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Easy solution. (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's see:
-10 days notice
-at most once a year unless you get caught
-if you make a minor mistake, you pay up and you're done
-if you make a major mistake, you pay up 120% and you're done
Sounds better than anything Microsoft or Adobe have to offer.
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They are not looking for endearment (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly. Microsoft long ago passed the point of having to care about what people think of them.
Re:They are not looking for endearment (Score:5, Insightful)
> Microsoft long ago passed the point of having to care about what people think of them.
IBM used to believe that. So did Dell.
-jcr
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Re:They are not looking for endearment (Score:5, Insightful)
And as an advocate for FOSS and other alternatives to MS I salute them for going after that buck at the expense of their users and cheer them on to drive harder.
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What rights? (Score:5, Informative)
They may be within their rights,
What right would that be, exactly? If they're not law enforcement, and they don't have a court order, they have zero "rights." Yes, even if they show up wearing fancy raid jackets to try and look like law enforcement.
I've posted this several times before. If the BSA or any of these other vultures come knocking, they have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO DO ANYTHING, SEE ANYTHING, TALK TO ANYONE, etc WITHOUT A COURT ORDER. If they have one, that means you're already in the process of being sued, and the first person you should call is your lawyer, and you should ONLY do EXACTLY what the court order requires you to.
Here's the Superbanana Super Guide To BSA Bullshit Shutdown.
If they don't have a court order, don't let them see anything, touch anything, install anything, connect anything. Don't answer any questions. The only information you should give them is your attorney's phone number.
Re:What rights? (Score:4, Informative)
Here's where the nonsense starts...
You consent to the audits if you have any volume licensing at all. You also gave up your right to sue and have consented to going to arbitration. In that, BSA claiming they have a report you licensed X and you are using Y copies (from the upset employee you fired a month ago) and unless you present a defense, you lose. So, you've got to let the auditors do their count of computers... You can slow them down and get into compliance in the meantime, but you can't keep them
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Re:What rights? (Score:5, Informative)
Giving up your right to sue doesn't mean you can't sue. I've seen it done. Party A and Party B enter an arbitration agreement. Party A believes Party B has failed to fulfil some contractual obligation. Party B disagrees, finds fault with Party A, and sues Party A. In court, party A enters the original contract into evidence. Party B disputes it. A hearing is scheduled. A question of validity of the contract is raised. Party A then sues Party B for breach of contract. The whole thing is tied up in the courts for 17 months. The issue is resolved when everybody gets so fucking tired of it that they just walk away.
You say I gave up my right to sue? How are you going to prove it? I guess you'll have to... TAKE ME TO COURT.
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Re:What rights? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:What rights? (Score:4, Insightful)
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ELUA? (Score:3, Insightful)
Good argument for GPL'd software.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A motion of discovery ON WHO'S BEHALF? Dude, I WISH it worked like that. I'm curious what the fuck my neighbor keeps doing in his garage at 3:00 in the morning. I'll just go down to the courthouse and get a court order to search his home, right?
Re:What rights? (Score:5, Insightful)
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which is how things are supposed to work. (Score:4, Insightful)
Then they just come back an hour with a motion of discovery, the constable, and 3 deputies.
And the problem is what, exactly? That's exactly what they SHOULD have to do.
The reason the BSA shows up unannounced is because they're fishing, and hoping to get enough to THEN either threaten you or take you to court. There is no possible good to come, and nothing that will work in your favor, by granting them access.
They've already decided that it's not worth the cost of filing a suit, and in order to get anywhere, they need to have evidence, which they may not have in sufficient quantity. A pissed off sysadmin with a bone to pick is about as credible as a fox in a chicken coop.
The company that says "go fish, assholes" MIGHT see them again with a court order in hand, but it's not likely. The company that says "uuuuuh....okay, come on in" finds themselves in a few weeks threatened with a huge lawsuit, or a "settlement" calculated to be just below what the company could possibly afford...
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Re:What rights? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes,but the counter-charges are criminal and civil: assault with a deadly weapon, breaking and entering, hacking laws, etc.
Consider that these are private citizens. They have as much right to break down my door with guns and break into my machines without permission as I do to arm myself like Neo, walk into Microsoft, and attempt the same thing.
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Ernie Ball (Score:5, Interesting)
For those who forgot:
http://news.cnet.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.htm [cnet.com]
Of course the guy is an asshole... (Score:5, Funny)
Julian Heathcote Hobbins, General Counsel for the Federation Against Software Theft (FAST), spoke in defence of the software industry protecting its property rights
Could the guy have a more pretentious name? Really? Julian Heathcote Hobbins? Could that guy have any other job beside going around and telling people they are using the product they bought incorrectly?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Come on, he can't help his name. Now, using all of them, THAT's pretentious.
Takes a steady hand to treat customers well (Score:4, Insightful)
IMO this is one place where strong management can make a big difference by taking an explicit position on "Times are tough, we need to collect what revenue we can" vs "We need to preserve a relationship with our customers *and* help them stay in business *and* get ready to capitalise on that good relationship when the economy picks up and we want to sell more stuff". Targets should not be allowed to distract from the bigger picture, which is *serving your customers*. Sure you might have contract terms that give you "the right" to hit your customers with surprise charges in order to help keep your own business afloat but you're not really serving them, you're using them. By the same token, when I go to my local shop they have "the right" to be rude to me - I'm paying for goods, not manners. But then I'd switch purchasing to the other local shop. Everything has a cost.
But what do I know, I'm not a manager! Times are tough, people have to get by somehow.
Nor are you a monopolist (Score:4, Insightful)
Who can screw their customers and expect them to come back for more.
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What about this? (Score:5, Interesting)
Suppose I'm a healthcare company. Software auditors show up at my door, waving contracts in my face. I let them in. They insist that they must inspect ALL machines running, say, MS Office. Some of these machines contain sensitive health information for ten thousand patients. I have now committed 10,000 willful HIPAA violations, and could go to jail, in theory, for up to 10,000 years (maximum jail time for willful but non-malicious breach is 1 year per instance).
Or what about SarbOx? Any possibilities for violation there?
I think a strong case could be made that if you are a HIPAA covered entity who uses software which is subjects to such agreements, and you abide by the agreements, then you are committing a felony. Thus, using Microsoft software is a felony. QED
Re:Boy, that's TV Law... (Score:4, Interesting)
No, I think what would happen is that they can just look at the OS, without looking at the data running in the OS. Thus, they can get a license count. But, if you won't give them one, then, you could get sued, and be forced to give one, or rather, have some third party or even the local sherriff do the count with the understanding that the HIPAA data is implicitly protected because the exposure is to officers and appointees of the court.
I don't think you understand exactly how draconian the HIPAA statute really is. A HIPAA covered entity may not disclose or allow the possibility of disclosure of protected health information to ANYBODY without the patient's consent. That includes sheriffs, court officers, and the President of the United States. It also includes other HIPAA covered entities! That's right folks, your doctor cannot tell another doctor about you, unless it fits a VERY specific set of circumstances. I've heard horror stories of nurses losing their jobs because they told other nurses vital information about a patient's care, and I'm not talking about gossip in the hallway, I'm talking about perfectly legitimate transfers of information for the patient's benefit. The statute is so broadly worded that you can be fined because you saved a patients life.
You would essentially have to get written consent from all 10,000 patients before anybody who is not themselves a HIPAA covered entity could so much as GLANCE at those machines.
Now you might say, let's just declare ourselves to be HIPAA covered entities, and promise to abide by the law. Except it doesn't work that way. A person cannot choose to become a HIPAA covered entity. You must meet a very specific set of criteria, one of which is that you conduct electronic transactions (either billing or file transmission) regarding health care information. A software auditor simply does not meet the criteria.
HIPAA is widely regarded as one of the most overreaching, destructive laws ever passed, with insane and unintended consequences. By the way, anybody is allowed to file a HIPAA complaint against any covered entity, even if they are not associated with either the patient or the health care provider. In theory, if I knew that some health care company somewhere allowed a BSA audit, I could file complaint against them myself, and OCR would be compelled to investigate it.
You really should read up on HIPAA. It's like a god damned nuclear weapon and it has the entire healthcare industry constantly quaking in their boots.
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Re:Boy, that's TV Law... (Score:5, Informative)
To law enforcement [aele.org]
To treating physicians and other clinicians, for public health activities, for health oversight purposes, to protect against personal and material harm [state.tx.us]
Even for marketing [hhs.gov]
And a raft of others. [hhs.gov]
This is not the bogeyman you are looking for.
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Has anyone here ever tried reading a license? (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously, anyone?
Part of my job description is making sure the company is up to scratch with their licensing. So I have to read the licenses - and I do.
I have concluded that software licenses are written expressly to trip up customers. Even when they're relatively straightforward, they often contain clauses which would be considered absurd in almost any other commercial contract.
For instance, the only license that allows you to roll out Windows using an imaging system (eg. Ghost) is one of the volume licenses - and for the most part they include a clause which states "You will buy a license for every PC-compatible computer in your organisation". Now you know why so few companies are taking Linux seriously on the desktop. I have no idea how enforceable such a clause would be, but I can't see many companies wanting to challenge Microsoft in court.
I love this bit (Score:5, Insightful)
"Ballmer also suggested that education should be given government stimulus funding to enable young people to gain experience on the computing systems they would meet in the real world."
Seriously Mr B, go fuck yourself. You don't need the money and young people, on the whole, are pretty good at working things out for themselves as they have a "click and see what happens" approach mixed with the ability to ask another kid who knows. Doesn't matter if it's OpenOffice, Office 2007, whatever, if they really want it to do something, they'll find a way. The weak point is quite often the teachers.
Seriously, in the UK you cannot be a teacher without a University degree. A University degree should teach you to analyse a problem, research the problem and apply a solution. In software, this boils down to "I can't do X in program Y", go to Google and type "how do I do X in program Y", click links until you find answer and follow instructions on page. Most of the time they seem incapable of following this simple idea. They'll even come in and as me then watch me hit Google and search for a solution (often the first result returned) but it never dawns on them to do the same themselves next time (and no, support isn't my job). I showed a year 7 how to find something out using the "F1" key and he was amazed, he just didn't know.
The best thing for education, would be for kids to be trained to work stuff out for themselves by teachers who are trained to work stuff out for themselves. This "teaching people to use the software they'll use in the real world" argument is crippling and the seeming inability for people with far higher qualifications than mine to work out even minor problems has seriously dented my faith in the higher education system.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If "traffic cop" implied "greedy", then there wouldn't be any need for the adjective.
Re:Greedy traffic cops? (Score:5, Interesting)
In the town next to the one I sit... there's a old police officer who has a "quota" of traffic fines he needs to collect in the budget. Miss his income number, and he's unemployed. The budget number is public record as and in as a separate line item in the official budget. He's authorized to put up a "Speed Limit 30" sign at any intersection because that's the state law at all intersections marked or not.
Now, on the way out of this town, there's a highway interchange. That's an intersection, but the state highway people don't want you going as slow as 30 miles per hour there... you won't be up to 55 on the short ramp to the highway if you do. So they've rigged this intersections with enough signs that the traffic officer is locked out... if he puts his sign up, it's not properly displayed because it's either blocked from view or too far from the intersection. He still writes tickets there, and if you take him to traffic court you can get it kicked. He's hoping you confess or just send in the check. There's even a state website where you can pay your fine with a credit card.
If enough people do get his tickets kicked, he'll be done.
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Re:Why would you even let them in the door? (Score:4, Informative)
You are forced to have the auditors by agreeing to the licenses to use certain software products.
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Re:The article was actually nice. (Score:5, Interesting)
B.S. Nobody wants Microsoft licensing to be that complex, except the SAM contractors and other licensing Nazis that Microsoft and a good chunk of the proprietary software world has let loose upon us all.
I had a SAM review last February and March, that started with a letter from a Microsoft "partner" (read: contracted henchman) that, once you got passed the bullshit about them being hear to help me, was clearly a software audit.
I was given 30 days (with an extension if I needed it) to put everything together. That part wasn't too bad. We had largely inherited the licenses from the firm that we had taken over, and it was a bit of a mess. Of our three copies of Server 2003, one was an inherited Small Business Server 2003 OEM edition that I had applied the Transition Pack to to turn into proper Server 2003, one was an OEM copy of Server 2003 R2 bought by us and one was a Server 2003 that we had inherited, purchased through Software Assurance. As well, there were about 15 Office Pro licenses, as well as 13 or 14 Office OEM copies sold with the Dells that we had inherited. On top of that, I had a backup server running Windows 2000 server, plus CALs both purchased by us and by the people we had bought everything from.
I first smelled trouble when they asked me to verify that 22 of our workstations (all running OEM copies of XP) were not running Office (they were running OpenOffice). I found the question more than a little accusatory. Then came the seeming inability for them to count CALs. At one point they had us in the red 15 CALs, despite the fact that I had invoices, both of my purchases and of the previous organization's, showing the CALs. This literally went back and forth for two weeks, until finally I had had enough, and sent off a very angry email to the contractor accusing him and his "team" of severe arithmetic disabilities, and explicitly using the phrase "you are harassing me".
Then, as if unwilling to declare defeat, they came back with a final number of -5 Server 2003 CALs, because, and get this, though I had enough CALs to cover everything, I hadn't bought this 5 CAL pack via Software Assurance, and wasn't permitted to use it as a User CAL on the Server 2003 machine installed via the single copy of Server 2003 bought via Software Assurance. I sent back a very angry letter, CCed to my manager, asking them if they seriously thought that I was going to pay $150 bucks again for CALs I already owned, because I bought them from a reseller as opposed to Software Assurance. I think at that point they got the hint that they weren't going to be getting any money out of us, and sent back a letter saying that as long as I agreed to change them into Device CALs, I'd be in the clear with them.
Now, I guess from one perspective one could say that we got off in the end, we were totally legit. But this probably consumed about $500 to $700 of my wages (my employer's money) on pointless back-and-forths as they tried to probe to find any way to make money off of us.
At this point, we are looking to abandoning Microsoft, and indeed proprietary software wherever we can. It won't be easy, and it won't always be pleasant (though it can't be any worse than the three weeks of hell that happened when we bought new Dell workstations with Vista). We're stuck with Exchange-Outlook for the medium term, but should have enough licenses to cover a small expansion that may be happening in a year. But all the new file servers are running Samba, we're set to expand OpenOffice installs, and while Office 2003 will be around for a while, there will be no upgrades to later versions, save as we replace workstations. The long-term plan is to roll more and more server operations on to open source solutions, with a set goal that when we hit 95% of our Exchange CALs, we will take the plunge and go with an open source groupware solution. I don't anticipate that we will ever be Microsoft free, but we can certainly reduce our footprint, and our exposure to the nonsensical and self-serving whims of Micro
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