Does Microsoft Finally Have a Phone Worth Buying? 427
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has finally shown 'Windows Phone 7 Series' and it's supposed to be a completely new smartphone OS. A phone from Microsoft to get excited about that is going to work properly and take on the iPhone's world domination? "
IPhone World domination? (Score:3, Informative)
Iphone world domination?
I don't know what world is being referred here, probably the marketing and fairy tale world. Last time I checked, Apple was a marginal player in the real world (i.e., not some particular geography or some fashionable pundits).
In the real world, Nokia might be the one to talk about, but even so, its share is far from "world domination"
Re:IPhone World domination? (Score:5, Interesting)
And yet, the iPhone is the phone that everyone is talking about. New phones are being touted as "iPhone killers", not "Blackberry killers" or "Android killers". When it comes to usability and design, the iPhone is the yardstick that other phones are being measured against. In that sense, it does dominate the market... or at least the marketing.
Re:IPhone World domination? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:IPhone World domination? (Score:5, Insightful)
So well in fact that, when seated at my desktop computer, I still prefer to use the iPhone app over the full-size web browser.
You must be very young with great eyesight. I have no interest in using a web browser on a 4" diagonal screen when I have a 24" one available that I can actually read.
Re:IPhone World domination? (Score:5, Insightful)
However for sensible, practical phones that just work without the unwanted fancy fluff Nokia is a clear winner.
Hmm...I went from an N95 to an iPhone 3GS, and I have to disagree. To pick an example, I used the Nokia maps app ~10 times in the 2 years I had the N95. It was horribly slow to start up, slow to get a GPS lock, slow to redraw, slow to zoom, so slow as to be basically useless. The iPhone maps app has way less bullet-point-type features, and yet I use it almost every day. And I'm not sure what 'fancy fluff' you're referring to either - it's a giant map you scroll around with your finger, end of story.
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Are you talking phones or smartphones?
Apple's iPhone Continues to Outpace Smartphone Industry Growth [macrumors.com] - while proving your point in one sense, regarding Nokia, also demonstrates a counterpoint to your 'marginal' comment - 3rd worldwide in volume and market share with over 10% is anything but marginal. With a growth rate of > 90% there is every reason to believe iPhones will over take RIM in the near future. If you were to look at "Consumer" phone usage/market share I'd be willing to bet iPhones are alread
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Mind share domination. The iphone might not have a large chunk of market share, in terms of raw numbers. But it is the device to beat, the bar every other smartphone manufacturer suddenly found itself being compared to. Sure, there are phones that are better for this and that. Geeks might go for the relative openness of Android. Corporate types will probably prefer the enterprise integration of Blackberry. But the average Joe will always compare them to the iphone.
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So if it's the device to beat and the blackberry has more market share does that mean it's already been beaten?
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According to this article, Motorola is #1 in world mobile phones, while Blackberry is #1 in world smartphones. Blackberry is at 41%, the iPhone is 25%, but you ought to consider that (1) iPhones are slowly eating away at Blackberry's share and (2) the iPhone is doing amazingly well considering it's only available on one network, unlike Blackberries.
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Sorry, it's this article [macvideo.tv].
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You mean the article with the headline "comScore: Apple gained US smartphone market share in December"
Which only talks about US market share, is that the article you are basing your "worldwide" market share data on?
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not to mention there were only a small variety of iPhones versus god knows how many Blackberry devices currently available on the market for god knows how many networks.
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Others have mentioned how they're talking about smart phones, and the iPhone is fast-growing in that market and gets most of the attention.
I'd also like to point out that the iPhone has been extremely influential in the smart phone market. Look at smart phones before the iPhone came out and compare them to what's coming out now. Everyone is the copying design concepts, UI conventions, and capabilities of the iPhone. Carriers are losing control of the devices being put out these days, and it started with
Will have to wait and see (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Will have to wait and see (Score:5, Insightful)
Does it support multitasking?
How sad is it that this is a serious question? Not too long ago, "does it support copy&paste" would have also been a legitimate question to ask. Thanks, Apple.
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Here's another serious question: why is multitasking support really that important on a phone? Like many people these days, my only personal phone line is my cell phone so I'd like it to run for a minimum of two days without charging (in case I forget to charge it one night or something). I've used Windows Mobile devices before, and it's absurd that a user should have to be frequently checking their "running programs" list to make sure stuff isn't draining their battery/CPU/memory resources. That's assuming the user is even aware that there is such a list. There's the obvious negatives, so where are the positives? What are some examples of practical tasks to perform on a phone that require multitasking?
So I can google something while composing an E-mail. So I can text someone while browsing. So I can look over my contacts list while on a phone call.
We're talking about a Smartphone, which is effectively a miniature, handheld PC. If you don't want it, then argue that they should give users the option to turn off multitasking. I think that most users *want* to run more than one app at a time, but for those who don't, they could turn it off. The point is -- make it the user's decision, don't force your compa
Re:Will have to wait and see (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that I can and do Google while composing emails. I don't text often, but I can certainly do so while browsing. I have no problem with my contacts list on a phone call.
What I want is to be able to switch between apps fast, and I can do that. I don't want two apps on screen at a time, like on my desktops and laptop, since the screen just isn't that big. Therefore, it doesn't matter if Safari is running or not while I'm checking my periodic table app. People don't actually want to run multiple apps, most of the time, they want to interact with one at a time and switch easily.
It does matter in some cases, of course: Pandora users have to interrupt their listening to use another app, and that's unfortunate. Most of the time it's a non-issue.
Don't get hung up on the OS internals here. Concentrate on the user experience and you'll see why people like the iPhone.
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Re:Will have to wait and see (Score:5, Informative)
You can do all of that on an iPhone.
Compose an email and exit out to the web browser, do your googling, then return to the mail app. You'll be right where you left off in composing your email.
If your browsing the web and want to text someone, switch to the messaging app, then when you're done, and reopen the web browser, you will be right back where you left it... sessions, cookies, even partially entered form fields and all.
If you're on a phone call, you can do anything on the phone... including run all other apps, listen to your iPod, browse the web, and look at your contacts. There is even a link on the main "call" screen that says "Contacts" while you are on a call to quickly jump to them.
About the only legit complaints I have seen (so far) about the lack of background tasks have been the inability to listen to 3rd party audio apps while doing other things... you can't stream pandora while browsing the web.
Even IM apps have a good way to "run in the background" with push-notifications.
Re:Will have to wait and see (Score:4, Informative)
Even IM apps have a good way to "run in the background" with push-notifications.
Note that "push" inherently means "tethering to a remote server". It's impossible to have an IM app that connects directly to AIM, Google Talk, etc. that stays online when you switch to another app. You have to trust a 3rd party service to connect on your behalf and tell your iPhone or iPod that you've received a message.
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But you have a small, tiny screen. With no window manager. In order to "Google something while composing email", you have to switch between two full screen applications.
So from an end user point of view, there is no difference between multitasking between two running apps, and starting/stopping two apps from saved states.
"So I can look over my contacts list while on a phone call"
You can do that on a "non-multitasking" iPhone. In fact, you can browse the web while on a call. Or compose an email for that matt
Re:Will have to wait and see (Score:4, Insightful)
So I can google something while composing an E-mail. So I can text someone while browsing. So I can look over my contacts list while on a phone call.
I can do all these things without effort on my iPhone. I haven't found anything yet that would require multi-tasking, except playing music while doing something else with the GUI. And the built-in iPod can do that, even when using TomTom.
I'd even argue that in most cases, when you switch apps, you want the ones in the background to be "frozen", for example if you're watching YouTube and you get a phone call.
We're talking about a Smartphone, which is effectively a miniature, handheld PC.
No it's not.
That's the whole point of the iPhone UI. It doesn't try to be a miniature PC. It's what Windows CE/PocketPC/Mobile did wrong all these years. It tries to be a handheld device and that's why people like it.
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Does it support multitasking?
My blackberry Bold supports multitasking. What to know what else? I have to manually prune the running app list almost every day when the phone inexplicably becomes unusable due to various 3rd-party app memory leaks. Then again the screen is too small to have a taskbar that shows at-a-glance what's actually running in the background taking up memory or CPU, so I have to click a button and open a menu and scroll around hunting for apps to kill one at a time until the phone becomes responsive again. We all kn
Re:Will have to wait and see (Score:4, Informative)
Why on earth won't it support multitasking when the previous versions have done so quite well? That's like asking whether Windows 7 will support these newfangled things called mice. Multitasking is not even a feature to ask about unless you're coming from the Apple camp.
That sounds completely reasonable, until you google "windows mobile 7 multitasking".
Here's what I got: one [unwiredview.com], two [livbit.com], three [electronista.com]. That last one is official.
MS is attempting to get into the market by doing what they used to do best: Cloning. This means get every last bit of detail into their version of the product, *including* the drawbacks. They can fix this in later versions, and in the meantime they can say "what? it's not like the competition supports it...". This industry is absurd.
How deep is the rabbit hole? (Score:4, Insightful)
One reason why the iPhone is such a phenomenal phone is that the user interface permeates everything. Not just the immediate application screen or the app transitions, but at a fundamental level there is a symmetry and orthogonality of conceptualization that leads to a seamless user experience.
While that might sound like marketing gobbledygook, compare the Toshiba T-1 to the iPhone. Both have very cool initial user interfaces. In fact, the Toshiba (WinMo6.x) has a more interesting interface in that it changes to meet the user's needs without hardly any user input. However, once you dig past the first interface, it becomes clear that the WinMo phone is the same old WinMo crap underneath. There is no good widget set, there is no clear UI design guideline, and there is no good way to develop an app that doesn't end up feeling like a clunky mess. The iPhone, on the other hand, has a widget set that is reusable and has intuitive usage, there are very clear design guidelines, and most of all there are real artists who want to make apps for the platform.
If WinMo7 can break the Windows Mobile mold and really create something that provides a cohesive user interaction concept, then we may see a WinMo8. Otherwise, it may be the end of the road for this OS.
Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (Score:5, Funny)
at a fundamental level there is a symmetry and orthogonality of conceptualization that leads to a seamless user experience.
The words! They burn my brain like acid!
Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (Score:5, Funny)
The space-separated lexical units! They cause rapid oxidation in my cranium like low-PH compounds!
Fixed.
It wasn't complex enough. (Score:5, Funny)
Now, instead of burning, you fell asleep, right?
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Yes, words that have specific meanings that actually go together to form coherent thoughts tend to do that to people who can't understand relatively complex concepts.
Assuming this is BadAnalogyGuy, I usually appreciate your posts and, in fact, have you marked as a friend. However, you do yourself a disservice with this choice of wording. You even go on to deprecate it as appearing like market-speak yourself. I was just poking some fun at it.
Seriously, "orthogonality of conceptualization" is a fluff phrase of the highest caliber. If it were used satirically it would be comedy gold.
Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (Score:4, Interesting)
There is no good widget set, there is no clear UI design guideline, and there is no good way to develop an app that doesn't end up feeling like a clunky mess. The iPhone, on the other hand, has a widget set that is reusable and has intuitive usage, there are very clear design guidelines, and most of all there are real artists who want to make apps for the platform.
To me this is the most important change required to make this successful. I dev for WinCE currently (not phones, but the product does have a UI and a small touch screen). The tools suck. MS doesn't have a nice widget set like Apple. You want anything pretty or intuitive that doesn't look like it's straight out of windows 2000 you either have to build it yourself or dish out and pay for a 3rd party kits (which would be fine if the pickings weren't so lean).
I've dabbled with xcode and what's available for the iphone (I have a mac and itouch, just limited time to play), and what's available is a world of difference. Plus they have UI guidelines which I see as a good thing since consistency is a very important part of HCI. The tools combined with the guidelines mean it's easy for a developer to create an application that looks and feels like it belongs on the iphone and doesn't clash with the metaphors of the initial interface. To me this makes the iphone and apps feel cohesive instead of an OS and Apps that you happen to throw on there. It's the cohesiveness that makes it better than previous offering in the arena.
If MS steps up to the plate and creates some great tools things could be interesting. Mobile tools haven't been release for VS2010 yet, so maybe this is why they have been delayed...
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Software developers are artists now? What???
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Software developers are artists now? What???
Well, right now they're mostly "starving artists", which, as any artist will tell you, is the most pure form of artist.
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While that might sound like marketing gobbledygook
It does. I checked with my gobbledygook-o-meter, and it's screaming like a geiger counter in chernobyl.
Exactly right (Score:3, Informative)
You are exactly right, and other manufactures, like HTC, also provide their own UI which serves as the primary first-layer (and often second-layer) interactiveness that the user experiences. Generally this interface is very good, but as you say, when you get into the nitty-gritty, it's just WM underneath, which is the child of Pocket PC, which is the child of Palm-Sized PC (windows CE 2.11), which is the child of Windows CE 1.0, which was an _exact_ copy of the Windows 95 user interface. And here's the rea
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That gets repeated often, but so far no one has created a functioning 3rd-party app marketplace. Yeah, they got lots of adoption because they were the first to do it, and have been making a pretty penny as a result. But the developers are not.
Even the ones who have made good software have yet to recoup their initial investment. Apple's market ( and Android's, and the rest) are great for the established players in the market; the Skypes, the Am
Let's see. (Score:2)
Does Microsoft Finally Have a Phone Worth Buying?
*Looks at old POS Moto Q9C*
*Looks at current POS Palm Pro*
Combining the canard that "It isn't the OS, it's the hardware" with the admonition about fooling me twice, I'm gonna have to say... "No."
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I actually like windows mobile.
I started with a HTC Wallaby in 2003 and had 6 different HTC devices over the years and never had a major problem with the operating system (WM2002 through WM6.5). And in terms of features they always were the best devices you can get.
Nicely done. (Score:5, Interesting)
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It doesn't matter how pretty the interface is if it crashes every few days like my last windows phone.
Phones should do one thing well, they should make and receive calls. You can't do one thing well by taking a huge monster like windows and hacking it down to phone size. You need to start with a small embedded OS or at a push unix.
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Now, WinCE has been called "wince" for a reason; but it is an embedded OS, not a cut-down of any of the NT based ones.
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I keep hearing about how unstable WinMo is...yet my HTC Ozone has never crashed or locked up on. Is it because it uses a non-skinned version of WinMo, because of superior hardware, or because people are universally silly with how they treat their gadgets, or...?
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I've played with a Zune recently, and was pleasantly surprised. The UI is similar, and it had a very smooth feel to it. I think there was something slightly confusing about it to me, but I wasn't used to it. I didn't know what to expect to happen if I swiped my finger this way or that way. It was pretty sleek.
One of the things I liked about it is that it didn't seem to be the same old "here's a icon, now click on it" sort of interface. I've been wondering lately if computers will start to move away fr
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One of the things I liked about it is that it didn't seem to be the same old "here's a icon, now click on it" sort of interface...
Sorry to reply to my own post, but I wanted to throw something else in. There were a couple of things I found disappointing about the iPad launch, but one of the immediate "first impression" disappointments was the home screen. All the applications they showcased seem to have fairly refined interfaces that would appear to give a lot of information and control, and then you have a home screen that looks like it's just a bunch of poorly spaced-out icons for you to punch. With all the possible GUI options,
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I think it looks nice, but I wonder how usable it is. It's hard to tell from a short video. It does seem like they have sacrificed a bit of functionality for the sake of being stylish. Such as the giant words at the top that get cropped as you scroll sideways, yet don't really tell you which page you're on. It's looks as if they were trying to use the title as a scroll indicator, which would have been stylish and functional, but it doesn't seem to work well.
Hopefully it turns out to be a good device, becaus
unfairly burdened by Microsoft management (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if Windows Phone 7 (or whatever cute name marketing comes up with) is the best thing since sliced bread, Apple and Google will continue to release three software versions for Microsoft's one, ensuring that MS will once again be left in the dust.
You have to wonder why MS continues to try their hand in areas where has no advantage -- or clue, really. The best engineers on the planet can't win in the face of poor management and squabbling VPs.
Ballmer's arrogance knows no bounds.
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This is a valid point. The "MS Phone" at this time isn't even a product - it's just a demo. By the time something actually gets to market (later this year, maybe?) Android, WebOS, iPhone OS, Maemo, etc will have had a good bit of time to "catch up" with any missing functionality.
MS is, essentially, the last to the table of those I mentioned, and that's a dangerous place to be, even with a superior product. All of the others (well, possibly excepting Maemo) already have mind share and already have, more impo
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MS is, essentially, the last to the table of those I mentioned, and that's a dangerous place to be, even with a superior product. All of the others (well, possibly excepting Maemo) already have mind share and already have, more importantly, applications. The Windows 7 phone will mystifyingly not support any legacy winmo apps, so it's starting off at a massive disadvantage.
Well, it looks like a Zune clone, which is to say that it looks like it's trying to do the iPod/iPhone/iPad trick. Microsoft was really one of the first at the table with a phone OS, but it's scraping its broccoli off to the dogs and hoping no one complains while it whips up something new. Unfortunately, it doesn't look terribly new nor is it building on a wildly successful platform -- the Zune may be getting better, but it's not getting better than its competitors and the niche market it has "carved out" i
Re:unfairly burdened by Microsoft management (Score:4, Insightful)
Secondarily, the hope to make some money at it; but, primarily, the hope to disrupt a competitor's area of strength before that competitor is able to use it to expand.
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Will it make and receive calls? (Score:4, Interesting)
This is a serious step 1 here. I have had several Windows Mobile phones in the past. What sold me on the iPhone was that I could hear the phone ring, and actually receive the call. With Windows Mobile, more often than not, I would get the call.. go to answer... phone locks up... reboot phone... call person back. FAIL on the basic UI of the phone. The other features would work well... just often found myself rebooting the phone when it came time to get a call.
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How long ago was that? I've had a winmo phone for 3.5 years now (okay, technically two since I upgraded). I can't remember the last time the phone kept me from answering a call. Dead headset? yes. Hitting the wrong button on the car's bluetooth interface? yup. Having the phone lock up? Nope. About the only time I have to reset is when a poorly behaved application causes a UI issue (I'm looking at you, Opera).
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Which ones?
I've never had any such problems with my AT&T Tilt or Tilt 2. OK, maybe not never, I think I've had one crash during a call in 3 years.
Fail! (Score:2)
It's "Family Day" but I'm working, so I'm cranky and willing to burn the mod points (certainly off-topic for sure).
Using the word "fail" in broken english has now become classic douche-baggery. Don't just parrot the same tired crap you heard a couple of years back. Think up something new, please. I'm surprised you didn't find a way to work "Micro$oft" into the post.
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Similar problems on 6.1 and wm6.5. It's the reason I moved away from WinMobile. That and my verizon coverage was useless too
Windows Phone 7 Series Video (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.windowsphone7series.com/multimedia/Media2 [windowsphone7series.com]
I hope they keep the UI design team that put this together. It's a refreshing change from the escalating UI-candy wars.
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Video provided by YouTube, thats pretty hilarious! (its a Microsoft official site)
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Well, the video looks less enticing than the text description. I'm afraid it's more like Windows Media Center on a phone. I hope it's better in its final incarnation.
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I totally agree. Still way to many animations and eye candy. UI designers should keep the focus on what works well and fast not what looks slick, but the slick looking designs are the ones that get picked in the meetings...
My favorite part is the "find people faster".... that's what you're selling? exactly how is that faster, or at all different from your competitors? My treo 300 could get to contacts quite quickly, and the iphone search is easy and works well - is this a still a problem?
Hardware dictation = fail? (Score:2)
The fact they're dictating the exact hardware and layout makes me wonder whether (even though the software looks decent) this could crash and burn. Why should hardware manufacturers give up [what is effectively their creative control] for this OS, when they can make whatever they want and shove Android on it with no restrictions?
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Actually, this is why the iPhone is a success. Developers don't have to wonder which of the 400 variants of phone might be using their software, at what resolution, with what hardware capabilities. The iPhone works because there is a great deal less development required to get software to work on the devices - less testing and fewer hardware options makes for a much easier job on the software end.
The one thing Apple has right is unifying the user experience. There's no shame in taking that part they do wel
I would not know... (Score:2, Troll)
This came up [volkskrant.nl] in the Dutch 'Volkskrant' (newspaper, literally "people's paper"). It purported to show some live video [studiosevent.com] of the phone 'launch'. I did not get to see this video, instead I was told that my browser and platform were not supported so sorry this Silverlight video is not for you.
Funny, that. This browser and platform have no problems showing video. I guess this phone is just not for me...
Silly Microsoft. You can not even show a video without building walls around it and still you want me to believe y
Okay, you've got me listening... (Score:5, Interesting)
No goofy shading and transitions? Simple design? No backgrounds?
This has promise. I'm a "black screen wallpaper" guy, and until Windows 7 I used the "classic" look in windows (I'm still considering switching back, as the whole translucent thing is more a distraction than anything else).
What I want is a finger-operable OS that allows quick access to all my programs (and easy program switching), is finger operable, makes scrolling and web browsing easy (I've yet to see a browser that can reliably determine the difference in a small swipe vs a click), is finger controllable, and allows customizable parameters for most actions (when to ring, when not to, when to wake, when to sleep, when to check email, etc.), and - most importantly - is finger controllable.
I know that there are lots of people who want a PDA instead of a phone, and prefer using a stylus. Really - it's a phenomenal annoyance to have to pull out a stylus for practically every operation because the icons are the size of a piece of glitter. It's nice to see that they might be moving into the 21st century with their UI.
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I thought about one. Problem is, nothing else on the iPhone worked for me. Standalone GPS (I regularly travel to places w/o phone or data service) - fail. Tethering to my netbook so I don't have to pay for two data connections - fail. Really good calendaring (I'm a PocketInformant geek) - didn't look like it from playing with it in the store. Most everything on the WinMo platform works well - it just isn't as nicely integrated as the iPhone. The iPhone, otoh, is well integrated but lacks several key feature
Never Again, Microsoft (Score:2)
Sorry, Microsoft, but you guys claim that every release is the best thing since sliced bread. Having just finally gotten rid of my Samsung BlackJack II, with Windows Mobile 6.1, I can say that it was simultaneously the most promising, and most disappointing phone I've ever owned. I won't ever buy another Windows Mobile phone.
For now, I've got a used Blackberry (even this old one is way better than the Blackjack) while I wait for my AT&T contract to expire, then it is hello, Android.
Necron69
Work properly? (Score:3, Insightful)
Work properly? from Microsoft? the company that made "Microsoft Works" an oxymoron? I don't think so.
On the Desktop OS arena, one always has to have SOME degree of MSFT compatibility. On smartphones there's plenty of choice and Microsoft is but a small player. So why even bother? let's keep them relegated to a corner.
Oh shit I got this one! (Score:2)
No.
In two words, Hell no.
We don't need another fucking mobile platform, let alone one that Microsoft doesn't even have the balls to make a phone from. Google at least has the Nexus One.
Bing Bong Bang (Score:2)
Store? Development tools? (Score:2)
Those seem to be the big areas where MS is falling behind in this race.
Slick interface on a smartphone that syncs to the desktop and has a modern embedded browser? There are plenty of those on the market today.
Where will it fit in? (Score:3, Interesting)
Where is a MS phone going to fit in? Users are not going to pay for MS services as they do for Apple services. If MS was going to give away online service, they already would. Well, I guess they do but not with the popularity of Google, since such services are ties to the OS, which is counter to what the web is.
No matter how pretty MS makes the phone, it is unclear why anyone would buy it. It could be that MS leaves the corporate market to blackberry, and focuses on consumers. This might work if the sold the phone for significantly less than cost, as they did with the xBox. If they did, they would be the only cell phone provider who does so. If they teamed with cricket and the low end carriers they could demolish the competition. Other than that, I hardly see anyone leaving a phone so they can be locked back to the desktop.
UI Failures (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually that would be if my app actually ran on this pig. I have to rewrite i
Finally, no more shiny buttons (Score:3, Insightful)
Best of all, solid, bold colours. None of that plasticy, shiny stuff that has been everywhere since the early days of 'Web 2.0'.
A real attempt to innovate mobile interfaces rather than cloning the iPhone is really surprising. I just hope they've really made an attempt to make it reliable unlike previous versions of WinMo.
Re:World Domination? (Score:4, Interesting)
I hate it when someone quotes "US market share" as "market share" with the fire of 1000 suns.
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Re:I'm not holding my breath (Score:5, Funny)
Perfect. Can I run it on my vaporware iPad?
Re:I'm not holding my breath (Score:4, Funny)
Until you can buy one at the store, it's another piece of vaporware from Microsoft.
Actually no. It will remain vaporware even when it's on sale. Microsoft marketing is that good.
Re:I'm not holding my breath (Score:4, Insightful)
Until you can buy one at the store, it's another piece of vaporware from Microsoft.
Exactly. I liked how we never talked about the iPad before you could buy it for instance.
Re:I'm not holding my breath (Score:5, Informative)
Until you can buy one at the store, it's another piece of vaporware from Microsoft.
Exactly. I liked how we never talked about the iPad before you could buy it for instance.
Except one company (Apple) has a history of delivering what they promise, and another (Microsoft) does not. It's not about a general rule of "we don't discuss product announcements", it's a general rule of "Microsoft announces things, then only occasionally delivers them"
But it becomes a bit ironic when the big example of recent MS vaporware used by other posters right here in this thread is how MS dropped WinFS from Vista. Which is exactly matched by how Apple dropped ZFS from OSX ;) http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=584 [zdnet.com]
Re:I'm not holding my breath (Score:4, Informative)
Pedantic-- Apple never announced ZFS for OS X. Some people at Sun mentioned that Apple was looking at ZFS, and Disk Utility had an undocumented facility for mounting ZFS drives as read-only, which had the effect of feulling a lot of speculation, but at no time did Apple ever announce that they were going to use or support ZFS.
This is different from the WinFS case, since MS had been putting WinFS in its product literature and presentations up until the Longhorn reboot. Apple fanboy rumors != Apple announcement.
Re:I'm not holding my breath (Score:4, Informative)
Pedantic-- Apple never announced ZFS for OS X
More pedantic: Yes they did. Apple had ZFS touted as a feature for OS X 10.6 until a couple of months before 10.6 shipped... without ZFS. Archive.org doesn't seem to have recent caches of Apple's web page, but the Google cache has this [209.85.229.132]. For those who can't be bothered to click on the link:
For business-critical server deployments, Snow Leopard Server adds read and write support for the high-performance, 128-bit ZFS file system, which includes advanced features such as storage pooling, data redundancy, automatic error correction, dynamic volume expansion, and snapshots.
They did have an entire page explaining why ZFS was great, but I couldn't find it in ten seconds of looking through the Google cache.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Learn your history. Apple NEVER announced ZFS for OS X.
if so, they sure fooled the media to think they did at the time.. ZDNET: "Apple announces ZFS on Snow Leopard". http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=335&tag=col1;post-584 [zdnet.com]
and even Apples own web site editors where apparently fooled to think so.. from ars technica "Up until Monday's WWDC keynote, the preview page for Snow Leopard Server specifically referred to ZFS support as one of its key features!" (as per story this web site info purged by Apple) http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/06/apple-dashes- [arstechnica.com]
Re: (Score:2)
*Another* piece? Care to name some recent ones? Like in this decade?
WinFS. But then again, the OP was begging the question: Microsoft isn't really all that bad in the vaporware department.
Re: (Score:2)
*Another* piece? Care to name some recent ones? Like in this decade?
Vista. Something with the same name turned up but everything they promised didn't turn up with it.
Certified hardware - vapor
Better user experience - vapor
Most secure windows - vapor
It would make you more productive - vapor
And so on..
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh wow. "BSOD." "FreeBSD" elitist. "Interesting."
Re:I'm not holding my breath (Score:5, Interesting)
Whether a person likes Microsoft or not [...] they are late to the phone game.
Microsoft's first OS for smartphones (Pocket PC 2002) was release in October 2001, that's over 5 years before Apple and a full 7 years before Google's foray into the mobile platform. You can say a lot, mostly bad, about it, but MS has been at this longer than those two companies put together.
Everyone and their mom aleardy had a phone when the iPhones came out, too, it didn't keep Apple from selling 34 million of them and making hundreds of millions in the process.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
That is why I amended my statement - they've invested to few resources, to late. They aren't going to make some huge comeback now. I just can't see it happening. MS can't offer some "killer app" that just makes the rest of the market fall to pieces.
Re:I'm not holding my breath (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, I've never seen a BSOD on a WinMo phone. In my experience it's usually a direct reboot or a simple freeze...
Re:I'm not holding my breath (Score:4, Insightful)
You're putting words in his mouth. He said he didn't like Microsoft; he said he was using BSD. He didn't say he was using BSD because of Microsoft. It's sad that you would be so defensive that you have to read it another way.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
It's much improved from what we've seen in the past but there's a lot of room still for mistakes and bad UI decisions.
...And stability problems like every other windows phone I've seen.
Re:Vendors will f#$/ it! (Score:4, Funny)
That's why xda-developers has been in a "can't live without them" state as far as Microsoft and HTC go - MS and HTC have grounds to sue or C&D the people at XDA-Developers, but have decided not to because of the fact that a large portion of their customer base uses cooked ROMs for just the reason you describe - the vendors (AT&T, Verizon, etc.) have a bad habit of bloatwaring the phones.
The hardware vendors (such as HTC) usually do a good problem - it's the carriers that screw the users over with crap releases.
As to "Does Microsoft finally have a phone worth buying?" - they did years ago. Strangely enough, until the advent of Android, Microsoft actually had one of the more "open" phone OSes. iPhone development is heavily locked down, most of the other Linux-based handset efforts were either nonstarters or HEAVILY Tivoized, Blackberries can only be developed for in Java as far as I can tell.
Yes, I'm a pretty avid Linux user on the desktop, but for business/geek users, Windows Mobile is currently where it's at unless you are willing to deal with Verizon. (I'm not, and I won't go with T-Mobile because I'd actually like to use my phone within 20 miles of work/home.)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, it is interesting that in some ways, the biggest complaint many have about Windows Mobile is the same complaint some people throw at Linux - they complain about having too much choice! (KDE vs. GNOME vs. whatever in Linux, the various dialers/reskins/alternate UIs available for WM.)
What is a weakness in the eyes of some (flexibility and choice) is a strength for others. A WM phone doesn't provide the "out of the box" user experience that iPhone does, but it is far more powerful and flexible.
It's wha
Re: (Score:2)
AT&T has a 30 day return policy on phones.
Windows Mobile is a completely different experience from the crap known as Vista. I've been a Windows (on Desktop) hater for years, however I started using WM phones at around WM5.0, and still stick with WM.
(If a decent Android phone becomes available on AT&T I might jump over...)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't want movies, music, games, or a camera on a phone. I have better devices for all of that stuff.
Once you're carrying around a device which does movies, music, and games, it seems silly to have to carry an extra device just to make calls. Especially since the former device needs a SIM slot anyway to get on the Internet when not at home.
Sure, if you do a lot of outgoing phone calls, you need something better than a typical smartphone to do them on. The rest of us can live with somewhat limited phone ergonomics.