GNOME 3 Released 353
Blacklaw writes "The GNOME Desktop team has sent its latest creation into the wild, officially launching GNOME 3.0 — the biggest redesign the project has enjoyed in around nine years. 'We've taken a pretty different approach in the GNOME 3 design that focuses on the desired experience and lets the interface design follow from that,' designer Jon McCann explained during the launch. 'With any luck you will feel more focused, aware, effective, capable, respected, delighted, and at ease.'"
lol wut (Score:2, Offtopic)
Ooooops. Something is not here.
The page you tried to access was not found.
Re:lol wut (Score:5, Informative)
Re:lol wut (Score:5, Informative)
Why can't I click any links in slashdot comments anymore? I'm using Firefox 4. Can't even right click.
Any why is that yellow box overlapping everything when I'm previewing a message? Slashdot seems a bit messed up
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It's happening in Chrome too.
Slashdot: making us all glad we're better at our jobs than them.
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It actually works for me in the latest nightly build of Firefox, so maybe someone is working on it. :-)
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Same for me.
So I've gone back to the old comments system (again)... without the javascriptiness it seems fine.
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Why can't I click any links in slashdot comments anymore? I'm using Firefox 4. Can't even right click.
Any why is that yellow box overlapping everything when I'm previewing a message? Slashdot seems a bit messed up
Same here in Chrome, FireFox 4, and IE 9 on Windows. Also does not work on Mac in Chrome.
A quick check of element in the inspector shows:
<a href="http://www.xfce.org/" title="xfce.org" rel="nofollow" id="aeaoofnhgocdbnbeljkmbjdmhbcokfdb-mousedown">Xfce</a>
That does not look right to me...
This is really a hassle. Can somebody that actually manages the site please at least try to read the comments here?
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Why can't I click any links in slashdot comments anymore? I'm using Firefox 4. Can't even right click.
Any why is that yellow box overlapping everything when I'm previewing a message? Slashdot seems a bit messed up
Same here in Chrome, FireFox 4, and IE 9 on Windows. Also does not work on Mac in Chrome.
A quick check of element in the inspector shows:
<a href="http://www.xfce.org/" title="xfce.org" rel="nofollow" id="aeaoofnhgocdbnbeljkmbjdmhbcokfdb-mousedown">Xfce</a>
That does not look right to me...
This is really a hassle. Can somebody that actually manages the site please at least try to read the comments here?
Curiously it all works fine in Opera and Chrome on XP.
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You're right, the "post anonymously" checkbox is unclickable for me too. In fact I guess that explains why that last comment was posted under my name ...
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Same here, neither click works on the links. It now seems consistent that the clicks do nothing. That is a slight improvement over a week ago where the clicks would scroll back to the first comment, making it difficult to find the link I was interested in again! Right-mouse and picking "open in a new tab" on the menu always worked however.
Really this is very bad performance by Slashdot.
Oh yea it appears I can't check "Post Anonymously" either.
Re:lol wut (Score:5, Funny)
They ran out of features to remove from GNOME itself so they just took down the website.
Re:lol wut (Score:5, Insightful)
I actually emailed the press team. Here's what I wrote:
"I think a thank you is in order from the XFCE team, as the release of GNOME3 has urged me (and many others) to switch to XFCE. With XFCE 4.8 released, the featuresessentiallymirror those found in GNOME2. With that being said, I think you can confidently send the XFCE team a "you're welcome" message for addingnumerousnumbers of people to their user base. Remind them that without the GNOME team ignoring the myriads of complaints about thedirectionof the GNOME project, none of this would of happened.
Thank you very much for reading"
Anyone here should feel more than welcome to use this message, no credit needed. Spread the word, the XFCE team NEEDS to thank the gnome team for all of their hard work removing everything we needed, and giving us everything we didn't.
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Not that I doubt you're right, but out of curiosity, what did they take out now? All I have are production machines now and I wasn't going to mess with beta releases of any software that tends to be beta quality after it's been out for 8 years...
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Not that I doubt you're right, but out of curiosity, what did they take out now?
The maximize and minimize buttons, and the window menu which contained those and other actions. Only the close button remains as a common to all windows (although an application can make window-specific action buttons). Maximize and minimize functions are available still, in a non-intuitive way. This is one of the most irksome changes which has rubbed many people the wrong way. I'm delaying any decision on embracing/rejecting Gnome 3 until I've tried it out for a while.
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Seriously, when I read this in the heading:
I almost laughed. I don't think I've ever used a massively changed GUI and ever felt "delighted, and at ease". I expect if I tried using GNOME 3 I would be frustrated, irritated, and cursing out loud.
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I'm specially insulted by the
You will, you must, it's imperative that you feel respected.
That's the most disrespectful thing they could say, I love how they speak with their feet in their mouth like that.
Gnome 3 will have you do our way. You have no configuration. Start feeling respected now.
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Yes you may never ever change the current paradigm! Evil!
Seriously. If min/max buttons are what pisses you off, GNOME3 is a success.
If you have ever used Mylyn for example, you will notice that some, more focussed UIs make you much more productive. I think it is good that the GNOME team tries to go down this road.
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More focused UIs make you much more productive when doing focused tasks. How do you "focus" a general-purpose desktop environment?
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Don't bother. They only read the email messages they've written themselves.
Perhaps they didn't release it (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe it just escaped.
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"more focused, aware, effective, capable, respected, delighted, and at ease." Wow! If it also made me more continent, gas free, fresh, and leave me with cleaner hair, it would be perfect!
Forget the hair, I think it's cleaner air that you need.
Xfce (Score:5, Informative)
There's always Xfce [xfce.org] for those of you who still want a traditional, stable environment. Uses the same Gtk+ themes that Gnome used, and the panel is flexible enough to emulate Gnome 2.x, KDE/Windows, or CDE.
I know, they turned their back on the *BSD's with Xfce 4.8, but it's still the only desktop environment worth using anymore.
Oh yeah, and they plan on sticking with Gtk+ 2.2 for the next couple of years.
Re:Xfce (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm seriously considering switching from Gnome. ." in a remote session, and get the file manager for whichever directory you were in. Try that with cutter or nautilus.
The main reason is that I use remote logins and lots of VMware. Gnome shell won't even work unless you have hardware acceleration, so you can forget a consistent UI, and have to fall back to Gnome 2. So you now need both.
Never mind getting the file manager to work remotely. I still remember with fondness how easy it was in IRIX to just enter "fm
So, yes, I expect I will be migrating. But not to Gnome 3. I'll migrate to something functional, and Gnome ain't it.
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Give it time. Gnome 2 was buggy as heck when it came out too, but things got fixed and compatibility increased as time went on.
Its linux. Linux folks see software like wine. Give it some time, and you'll get something special, or just jump right in if you don't mind a few rough edges.
I think Gnome 3 is welcome. Gnome 2 and XFCE are great environs, but they are showing their ages a little bit, and I think a lot of good UI useability thinkings gone into Gnome 3. But theres no rush. Give them time to get the w
Re:Xfce (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Xfce (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't work as advertised. It's a horrible piece of shit, to bhe honest. Unless you have the exact same version of gnome on your local X server as the remote, and the remote also has a head, you get gdbus errors and lock-ups with gvfs, not to mention that the process never exits - you have to ctrl-c it or kill it from a shell.
Is a file manager that works over a straight X tunnel to any X server too much to ask?
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Xfce has Thunar, it is atleast a whole lot faster, haven't tried running it remotely though.
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Also, I though nautilus was gone with Gnome 3.0?
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Thanks for reminding me. I think I'll try Xfce when I upgrade my distro (and get gnome2 replaced by gnome3). From experience with gnome and kde, it always takes them ~2 years to get a new release right and kde4 is probably still a bit too new. I still don't understand this idea that "rewriting the code with about half the features is a good thing".
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You do realize that apple had to use some of that unpronounceable "open sores" (HAHA) code to make their operating system work. They did not have a decent operating system until they lifted huge chunks of BSD (hard to pronounce, I know) code.
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That’d be “its”.
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Its' the Slashdot jinx: every post correcting somebody's grammar has to have a grammar mistake of its own (including this one).
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A few questions:
It works! (Score:5, Funny)
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I _do_ feel more focused, aware, effective, capable, respected, delighted, and at ease... of course, that might just be the Ritalin...
Personally, I go for Valium: it doesn't make me particularly focused, effective, capable or respected, true. But I am delighted and very much at ease.
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There is an inverse relationship between quality/usefulness and the number of marketing buzzwords used.
I don't like the originals of the Mac knockoff bits. I doubt I will like them any better force fed to me by Gnome or Ubuntu.
Translated release notes (Score:5, Informative)
Press release URL broken (Score:3, Informative)
Official site (Score:3, Informative)
Here's a link to the official GNOME 3 site [gnome3.org].
To me it looks more like a smartphone interface (nice for a tablet PC), but errrr.... quite a paradigm change for notebook and desktop users.
Sadly, I still find it ugly! (Score:3)
Now, before I get flamed for what I have written, let me remind everyone that what I have written reflects my personal opinion...and I am entitled to that.
And remember...I am not alone. When will these GNOME folks produce a shell that is a beauty to look at by default?
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You're certainly not the only one, and your words were rather kind, considering some of the other criticism I've read.
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Hopefully sooner than later considering they took out even the ability to change the color scheme.
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and we are entitled to mod you down to hell!
hah!
Gnomes (Score:2)
Give them a break, they're short on time.
Gnome body Gnomes the trouble they've seen!
At least they have decided on a Gnomenclature.
and so on...
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At least they have decided on a Gnomenclature.
Yes, you can read all about it in the Necrognomicon.
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Mac.
Personally I find the Mac garish and overdone. But hey, that's just me. I still use the command line every day.
How To Tweak GNOME 3 (Score:4, Informative)
I wrote a blog post all about how to tweak GNOME 3's hidden settings to be more like how you want it to be. You can read it at my blog, here [wordpress.com]. To summarize, I explain how to go back to GNOME 2, install extensions, change themes, and much more. However, I do want to note that I don't even use my own tips; GNOME 3 so far has been nearly perfect for me and I see very little need to change the settings I mention, or even use any extensions. In fact, I wrote another blog post [wordpress.com] detailing the 10 things that I love about GNOME 3 in a sort of mini-review.
To summarize my latter post, I love how GNOME 3 "puts me in the driver's seat". There's no annoying, blinking lights, there's no "are you sure?" dialogs, the design is minimalist and takes up very little screen space, and it only gives me things like the window list, application list, and even notifications when I explicitly ask for them. If I don't want notifications I just mark myself as "busy" and check up on them at my leisure. If I want to switch a window I just tap the Windows key and click the one I want; fast and simple! Yes, that's "one more step", but it takes barely any more time than any persistent window list would take up (and less screen space, too). I love how easy and fast searching for applications and places in the Activities search bar is (you don't even need to click it; just start typing!), which gives it a GNOME Do vibe. Regardless of the search, I also love how easy it is to launch applications with the favorites list on the dashboard. GNOME 3 lets me add extensions as well just like any modern web browser so I can customize it or add features as I choose. No other desktop combines empowerment, distraction-free working, extensibility, and simplicity like GNOME 3 does and I have to say that it is the greatest desktop environment I've ever had the pleasure of working with so far. Even better, it looks like it will only get more awesome as time goes on!
Congrats, GNOME team, for your amazing work! :)
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Just press the activities key (Windows/Super/Meta) and move your mouse to the right. All of them are right there, and they auto-generate when you need more. If you need to move a window to another workspace, just click and drag. Double-click the workspace to zoom in or click the specific window you want. You can also scroll the workspaces using the mouse wheel on the workspaces list (very handy) or dragging the middle of the screen up or down (useful for touch screens). Don't forget that you can switch work
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What I loved was the ability to see all windows at once
But that's too complicated. You're too stupid to use that function.
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> Just press the activities key
In other words its more Mac wannabe nonsense that doesn't actually work better in practice.
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Just press the activities key (Windows/Super/Meta) and move your mouse to the right.
And those of us who are physically disabled and can only use one hand?
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You do know how GNOME Shell works, right? Click the activities button or flick your mouse to the top left. The Windows key is just a keyboard shortcut to that.
Re:How To Tweak GNOME 3 (Score:5, Insightful)
To summarize my latter post, I love how GNOME 3 "puts me in the driver's seat".
My problem with GNOME 3 is that it does put you into the driver's seat alright - that of a train on a single track.
Of course, they project desires unto you (Score:3)
it does put you into the driver's seat alright - that of a train on a single track.
Hint: the passive voice was used in the summary.
We've taken a pretty different approach in the GNOME 3 design that focuses on the desired experience and lets the interface design follow from that
Well, the experience desired by whom? Me? Well, no GNOME developer ever asked me. I bet they didn't ask you either. I think they just sat around and discussed among themselves what users should want, and then created whatever they decided people should want.
FVWM FTW :-)
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Yes, a magical desktop that only allowed the most efficient ways to do things would be a truly wonderful thing.
Unfortunately we live in the real world, where perfection is not quite so simple to attain. There's a reason why societies tend to propsper when they encourage diversity, and to stagnate when they enforce conformity -- and it's not because any committee has ever been able to identify the most efficient way to do everything.
If GNOME 3 happens to coincide with the ways of working that you find most
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Unfortunately we live in the real world, where perfection is not quite so simple to attain. There's a reason why societies tend to propsper when they encourage diversity, and to stagnate when they enforce conformity -- and it's not because any committee has ever been able to identify the most efficient way to do everything.
Last I checked, there's lots of diversity in the GNU/Linux world. I don't see how diversity inside of one project itself can improve anything. GNOME 3 has a rather extensive and thorough design history and they've tried really hard to improve upon GNOME 2. The idea behind GNOME is that you shouldn't need configuration options in order to use your desktop; it should work best by default and the only options that need to be available are valid preferences. Every preference has a cost and only makes software m
Re:How To Tweak GNOME 3 (Score:5, Insightful)
I would much rather have a desktop that only allowed the most efficient ways to do things than one that gave me a bunch of configuration options and told me to "figure it out for myself", in a sense. *cough cough*.
"Most efficient" is highly dependent on the user. For example:
1) Do you have a strong spatial memory of where things are in menus, on the desktop or the taskbar? If so you'll hate all auto-intelligence that keeps adjusting your favorite functions. You'd rather have an ordered alt-tab list than an unordered expose function like OS X.
2) Are you a person who remembers a great number of shortcuts and prefer the interface doesn't use much screen real estate to show you the buttons and toolbars? Or do you prefer most functionality to be visible to you?
3) Do you prefer arranging windows or do you like maximized windows and easy switching? Is it important for you to group windows into virtual desktops?
4) Can you recognize software by its icon? If not you'll hate Windows 7.
The "One True Way" is an illusion which may be true for things like kernel benchmarks. But when it comes to what is best for the user that depends on his mental skills, familiarity with the interface and the software and sometimes simply preference. Sane defaults are important, but if you've built the "perfect desktop" the chances are very high you've built YOUR perfect desktop.
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It's one thing to have diversity, another to be an unwilling guinea pig to experimental desktops that seemingly do their best to remove any possibility of doing things the old way. The more "innovative" you get, the greater the chances that it will be a mistake. Give people the choice and if it's popular keep it, don't shove everyone on it and say "you'll learn to like it"..
Re:How To Tweak GNOME 3 (Score:5, Interesting)
That's not what I see in your review. What I see is a new interface that's designed with the assumption that there's One True Way to configure a desktop and that there's no reason to let mere users decide for themselves how they want things to work. As an example, that "feature" of showing the desktop when you move the mouse to the top right corner of the desktop is the first thing I got rid of when I started using Compiz because I personally find it obnoxious and repellent. If this is how you want your desktop to look and work, enjoy the new Gnome. Personally, I'm in the process of abandoning Gnome altogether and moving both my laptop and desktop to XFCE.
That, I might add, is one of the reasons I use Linux, not Windows: when Microsoft comes out with a new "look and feel" for Windows, you have no choice but to learn how to use it; with Linux, if you don't like one DE, you're free to try a different one.
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showing the desktop when you move the mouse to the top right corner of the desktop
Correction: showing the activities overlay when you move the mouse to the top left corner of the desktop.
What I see is a new interface that's designed with the assumption that there's One True Way to configure a desktop and that there's no reason to let mere users decide for themselves how they want things to work
GNOME 3 is not perfect, neither is any DE. You do realize that it is configurable, yes? Because it doesn't provide every single configuration option in the world is no reason to dislike a desktop environment. Acting like GNOME 3 is not configurable or extensible whatsoever, which is contrary to the System Settings menu and the blog post I linked to, is just illogical and trollish. You know that there's A
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How's the bar being raised? (Assuming we're talking about the highbar).
Do you mean now it's easier for newbs to use it? One of the guiding principles of UI design had heretofore been not to hide things. You open a window, and it appears in the panel. Instant visual connection, and it's manifest.
In Gnome3, you're supposed to tell newbs they need to hit a key to see where the windows are.
Oh, you say, Gnome3 is for experienced users? Who was clamoring for this?
Actually, experienced users were clamoring for bas
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Threatening me with jumping ship to XFCE is not a very effective method of getting a project to listen to your concerns
Yes, it is. Since people are voting with their feet and NOT threatening, but ACTUALLY moving over to XFCE. As long as XFCE developers are listening and willing to at least add configuration options so people can tweak the desktop to work how they like it, XFCE is going to do quite well. The question is, will Gnome ever get those users back?
The day people start going OMG! This desktop works just like my phone, I love it!!! Is the day Gnome 3 will really start picking up users. I think the defection rate will
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maybe file a bug report if they agree.
That right there is what is wrong with Gnome. The minute I don't like something and would like to see the possibility to have some configuration options. I am screwed. Because the truth is, if the Gnome developers really like something and want to work on it, then filing a bug report will work. Otherwise you can talk, post, chat and file bug reports till you are blue in the face. It won't do you any Good.
Even Linus Torvalds once had a debate with the Gnome folks about an option in the printer dialog box. Th
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There's no annoying, blinking lights, there's no "are you sure?" dialogs, the design is minimalist and takes up very little screen space
Setting the gnome panel to Autohide gives me as clean a desktop as one could imagine.
The "stuff" in my (slightly) customized GNOME 2.x desktop is where I like it, and the mouse movement, keyboard clicks and "eye movements" are What I Expect. Same with FireFox 4: even after customizing it as much as possible, there's still stuff that's *different* that what my muscles have been trained to do since Netscape 2.0.
GNOME 2.3x and FF 3.6 *work* the way that I've become accustomed to using a *desktop*. Which isn'
Re:How To Tweak GNOME 3 (Score:4, Insightful)
like kde 4, windows vista/7 and osx, it suffers from web 2.0 syndrome:
1. useless extra borders, huge icons with lots of space between them. computers are tools, not art museums. no, not a false dichotomy as it's possible to make an efficient space look decent. the problems come when the artists and marketers get free reign over interface design and coherence.
2. searching for everything? god I hate this garbage. It's a lot easier to just know where the icon is and click it. I don't want to search for every god damned thing on my computer when I want to use it. this 'feature' is just a crutch for a shitty launch interface. I always turn that indexing garbage off no matter what OS I use because it's always indexing when I'm trying to do something intensive that it's useless heuristics assume isn't 'that' intensive. please stop. just stop.. do things when I tell you to do them. if I want something automated, I'll automate it.. leave the feature in if you like just leave it off by default, thanks.
3. useless animations.. Instant response is important and should be expected from computers clocking at microwave frequencies. if your bloated OS/app/desktop environment lags on a modern desktop, you're doing it wrong.
4. the final thing. tons of extra clicks. why? every new desktop env seems to take longer to configure to a usable state, longer to get at the software and files I need, and more difficult to back up in such a way that I know I got my data and (here's the hard part) my custom configurations stored in a way so that when I have to format, I don't have to work that hard restoring everything. then there's the little bits of functionality spread all over the place syndrome. all modern interfaces suffer from this.. gnome 3 is no different.
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Alt+Tab and the Activities overlay. If that's not enough, Alt+` lets you switch between windows in an application and the alternate-tab extension in my blog post restores the old Alt+Tab behavior for those who preferred it. Enjoy!
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You misread me: Alt+Tab changed application groups, while Alt+` changes applications within the same group, Say I have a web browser and an instant messenger open. Alt+Tabbing to one of them brings all of the windows in that group to focus. If I want a specific window in that group, I Alt+Tab to the group and press Alt+`.
I feel more respected already! (Score:3)
"With any luck you will feel more focused, aware, effective, capable, respected, delighted, and at ease."
So... they're outsourcing their marketing to Taiwan?
"with any luck"-- No such luck. (Score:2, Insightful)
Respected? Right. "The reason we take away all the UI for configuring options is because we respect you. It certainly wouldn't be because we feel you're too dumb to decide how you want your own desktop configured or because we worry that users, if left to themselves, might configure their software to work the mundane way they want it rather than the superior way we UI elite have envisioned."
*yawn* (Score:3)
Changing the user experience for the sake of "changing the user experience" doesn't do it for me. Gnome3 is a downgrade for me and a nudge to check out KDE.
I guess you can't please all the people all the time, but this effort is headed in the wrong direction.
Best,
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nothing says wrong direction then trying to create a better user experience.
Oh noes! he might check out KDE! quick appease the power user, appease HIM!
Why haven't you checked it out already? I'm not saying its better or worse, but in most environment I have used it's pretty easy to set up Gnome and KDE.
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You hate changing the user experience for the sake of changing the user experience, so you'll change your user experience to a completely different one that doesn't even pay lip service to the one you switched from, and which recently changed the user experience for the sake of changing the user experience as well.
Your logic is astounding.
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You do realize that GNOME 3 has an extensive design history [gnome.org], yes? They did lots of usability testing, and just because the interface isn't exactly "familiar" does not instantly mean that they changed it for the sake of change. Please, do some research next time and read the GNOME Shell design documents.
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just because lots of idiots use-curves peak the annoyance factors of bad guis below their conscious perceptions, doesn't mean new-guis are superior to what came before. change for the sake of change is not always better.
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The people at Coke had done extensive testing. In a blind taste test, New Coke beat Classic Coke hands down. Every time, by a wide margin. But "Which one tastes better" was the wrong question to ask. As it turns out the correct question was, "do you like the taste of this "new coke" so well that it would be ok with you if we made "classic coke" go away, forever, so that the Coke you grew up with as a kid and your parents, and grandparents and great grandparents loved was never to bee seen again?" While the
"Hosted by Canonical" (Score:2, Informative)
I just noticed that on gnome.org it says "Hosted by Canonical" at the bottom. Isn't it great how they're getting along, what with all the drama? :)
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I just noticed that on gnome.org it says "Hosted by Canonical" at the bottom. Isn't it great how they're getting along, what with all the drama? :)
Yes, it is. Of course, I notice that there's no Ubuntu release on their download page ...
What problem does Gnome 3 solve? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am all for rethinking the desktop paradigm, but I'm not sure whether Gnome 3 is a complete rethink or a desperate attempt to break out of the Windows 95 mould (which I think most linux users, given the popularity of mint and pclinuxos, would grudgingly admit is a sensible way of organising a desktop).
When I moved from Win XP to Gnome 2, I appreciated the rapid access the upper and lower bars gave me to applications, places, open applications, control of access, desktop, shortcuts, other panels and a full calendar - something that greatly improved productivity. Gone were the days of clicking on the same spot in the lower left, and then trying to manoeuvre your mouse around the nested menu upon menu just to find the setting or application you were after, which often led to the mouse losing focus and frustration all round. I feel like Gnome 3 is a step back in this regard, channelling almost all operations through the same spot in the corner could create exactly the same sort of inefficiency and bottleneck.
When I can get Gnome 3 to work properly on my setup, and give it a go for a decent period of time, maybe I'll change my mind. But I think it's more likely I'll find the answer to my own question, and realise that the problem is Linux struggling to clearly define it's niche and uniqueness between Mac OS X and Windows 7.
Re:What problem does Gnome 3 solve? (Score:5, Insightful)
Complacency. Gnome users haven't had to re-learn their desktop in a while, and the devs are helpfully breaking those users out of their rut.
Re:What problem does Gnome 3 solve? (Score:4, Insightful)
I see, so it's for the lords and masters of Gnome to decide the the peasants are "in a rut" and make them run about adapting to some new aritrary "order"?
Re:What problem does Gnome 3 solve? (Score:5, Interesting)
No, it's a dreadful way of organising a desktop. The "start button" design buries applications deep in menus miles away from wherever your mouse is. The task bar view of running programs manages to display minimal information while also lacking any spatial element that might help you find the window you're looking for. The icons-on-desktop design puts all your files and shortcuts in the single least accessible place on your screen. Etc.
In all honesty, Windows 95's interface was terrible. It managed to be a step back from Windows 3 in many respects. It caught on because Windows 95 was so much better in every other way. It has stuck around because Windows acquired a monopoly and the entire business world would scream blue murder if Microsoft tried anything radical. And Linux distributions that copy it are only popular because it is familiar. People really do prefer the devil they know.
I'm not claiming GNOME 3 is the solution. I haven't tried it yet, and what I've read has not sounded very appealing. But I will give them credit for trying, just like I gave KDE credit for trying even though I'm not a great fan of their interface either.
Shakeups like this are essential. If you only ever go for incremental improvements, you will at best find a local maximum. Your chance of finding the best solution increases if you try radically new ideas. And putting them out as concepts that nobody every really uses won't get us anywhere either -- interfaces can only be evaluated properly if they are forced into mainstream distributions and real people actually make an effort to use them for real things. It has to be this way. This is a good thing. Honest.
Re:What problem does Gnome 3 solve? (Score:5, Interesting)
In all honesty, Windows 95's interface was terrible. It managed to be a step back from Windows 3 in many respects.
Interesting. I have a contrary opinion: to me, Windows 95 was the high-water mark of Microsoft's interface design and got some things right which everyone else - 2000s-era Microsoft included - have been strugging to even understand since.
Granted, the cascading Start Menu was horrible. But that can be fixed. The underlying "a shortcut on the menu is just a desktop shortcut inside a Menu folder" architecture was a stroke of utter genius, one GNOME completely failed to get. They had to create two incompatible kinds of launchers, and make it near-impossible to edit menus, or to drag one to the other. Why? The Win 95 way was so perfect.
The taskbar, too, is something that was brilliant compared to the Dock or anything else: an area that could show you at a glance where all your currently running stuff is. Yes, it's simplistic, and needs to be expanded - but the basic idea of dividing the screen into separate permanently-there areas, one which gives you an overview, one which gives you a closeup, was awesome. The big win of the Start Button is that (unless you really mess with things) it's always there in a known location. Same principle as Apple's menu (possibly they couldn't just do that because of look-and-feel patents? they were still a big deal in the mid-90s).
What I'd like is an interface which lets me extend this principle, to let me create user-defined fixed 'trays' in various parts of my desktop where I can guarantee that windows can't spill out of. For a while I thought Gnome's panels were going to be this, and I loved having one at the top and one at the bottom, one for menu and one for taskbar, but knowing that under the hood they were just identical instances of Panel.
I think the ultimate desktop still will be document-oriented - something like a Zoomable User Interface - rather than application-oriented, but we seem to have abandoned the quest for this and keep iterating on tiny visual variations of a half-finished underlying architecture, but now with the added pain that the user can't change the visual look and feel anymore. This seems like going in precisely the wrong direction. I'm at a loss to understand why this is. If we'd invested half the effort that's gone into force-feeding rigid visual look-and-feels onto an unwilling userbase, instead into creating an underlying architecture that seriously splits the look and feel from the underlying data and lets the userbase create and remix their own 'look' while the application developers can focus on the data processing - wouldn't we be a lot further ahead?
tldr: I don't want application designers telling me how to organise my desktop. I want them to give me the tools that let me organise my desktop however I want. But they're not. Why?
Re: (Score:3)
Here is the GNOME 3 Design History page [gnome.org]. In short, they wanted to get rid of the hacked-together nature of GNOME 2 while innovating at the same time. They wanted a more integrated desktop that didn't get in your way, and for the most part it succeeds :)
You've got to ask yourself one question: (Score:4, Funny)
'With any luck you will feel more focused, aware, effective, capable, respected, delighted, and at ease.'" ... "Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? " -- Dirty Harry
Re: (Score:2)
Is this the reason API docs are horrific now? (Score:2)
Yeha but (Score:2)
Gnome 3 and 4 will be held until the ransom is paid.
Apple OS X clone (Score:2)
It looks like they decided to stop copying Apple indirectly by copying Windows, and start directly mimicking Apple's OS X. The universal search, the dock, and the integrated settings all look like OS X, without the fancy quartz graphics.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm afraid you are wrong. I wish Gnome 3 would look and feel like OS X.
Compared to Gnome 3, OS X is a OS for geeks that love to change settings and personalize their desktops.
mod +5 funny, +6 insightfull (Score:2)
Yawn... (Score:2)
Slow news day...
As a CentOS user... (Score:2)
I look forward to using this new version of GNOME sometime around 2014.
Re:blah... (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, the UI is fairly unique. Well, sure, it still uses windows, and it's entirely true that the window decorations are awful with far too wide grey title bars, but I'm pretty sure the menu system is different from any other desktop and tablet.
Re: (Score:2)
I'll be giving it a shot in a VM. Normally I install stuff like that on my old laptop (1,7Ghz Celeron M, ATi Xpress 200M), but I haven't been a big enough fan of GNOME to install the hole thing. Also, I agree with the KDE4 releases being better then people give them credit for.