Sergey Brin: Windows Is "Torturing Users" 645
jbrodkin writes "Google created Chrome OS because Windows is 'torturing users,' Google co-founder Sergey Brin says. Only about 20% of Google employees use Windows, with the rest on Mac and Linux, and Brin hopes that by next year nearly all Googlers will be using Chromebooks. 'With Microsoft, and other operating system vendors, I think the complexity of managing your computer is really torturing users,' Brin told reporters at Google I/O. 'It's torturing everyone in this room. It's a flawed model fundamentally. Chromebooks are a new model that doesn't put the burden of managing the computer on yourself.' Google claims 75% of business users could be moved from Windows computers to Chrome laptops."
Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:5, Insightful)
A more accurate headline would've been "Sergey Brin thinks managing your own computer is 'torture'."
More interesting is the implication that, with the exception of about 20% of their employees, the brilliant engineers at Google can't handle managing their own computer. I use Windows at work. I can't say that I spend a whole lot of time "managing" my computer. I'm too busy getting work done— and hanging out on Slashdot, of course ;).
Re:Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:4, Insightful)
I use Windows at work. I can't say that I spend a whole lot of time "managing" my computer. I'm too busy getting work done— and hanging out on Slashdot, of course ;).
If you're working for a company of any appreciable size, there is a very good chance your IT department is using AD to ensure that the amount of work you have to do in terms of managing your computer is nil or as near as possible nil.
If you're not working for a company of any appreciable size, the amount of work you'd have to do is pretty small anyway.
Home users don't want to do even that much work (Score:2)
If you're not working for a company of any appreciable size, the amount of work you'd have to do is pretty small anyway.
Yet far too many home users don't want to do even that much work. How much work is it to avoid installing fake antivirus?
Re:Home users don't want to do even that much work (Score:5, Funny)
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Link2 [threatpost.com]
Link3 [sfgate.com]
Do you even read tech/science news?
Put a billion dollars on a Macbook and people will fuck it up beyond recognition. At the moment, the popular virus toolkits and script kiddies all focus on MS, but that is slowly changing.
**I spent 10 seconds googling 'mac vulnerabilities'. I probably could have found some better links, but I don't want to waste any more time on someone so misinformed.
Re:Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:4, Insightful)
Some things are just quicker and easier when done from the command line - provided that you happen to know the commands, of course.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Sergey is referring to when he says "torture". If Windows, by his definition, is torture, then Linux is doubly so.
This is all shocking, of course, given that Google is trying to push a whole new level of walled-garden computing on us. Think you'll get a command shell on that shiny new ChromeOS computer?
Re:Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:4, Informative)
> If Windows, by his definition, is torture, then Linux is doubly so.
I don't think so. Linux has is problems, but most distributions have a pretty sound "no none-sense" concept when it comes to PC maintenance. Automatic updates actually work, cover all applications (not just the OS), do not fail because of locked files, and reboots are rarely required. Linux viruses are very rare, even on Joe's and Jane's default Ubuntu installation round the corner.
MacOS is also doing much better, making this mostly a Windows problem.
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>>>"Sergey Brin thinks managing your own computer is 'torture'."
I think Sergey Brin is just off his rocker. I've had Windows XP for almost ten years now, and I don't have to "manage" anything. Every year or so I wipe the drive with a fresh XP-CD install, and need to reinstall my favorite programs, but that would be true of any OS, whether it's Mac, Lubuntu, or Chrome. Otherwise WinXP just works. Like my car. Or my microwave*. Or my stereo.
*
* The lightbulb burned out, but it still works after
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I have had my Macbook pro for 4 years. I have never wiped the mac partition and it still runs just fine. I can't say that I really have to manage it all that much either.
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I've been running various Windows computers for 20 to 25 years, don't recall ever having to wipe the partition and reinstall. I don't do a whole lot of management either. I'm baffled by the whole "Windows is so hard for the average user to manage" argument. Maybe if you are managing a server farm you are way better off with Linux, but for the average desktop user it's just not a big deal.
Re:Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you've been using Windows for 20 years, naturally it's not going to seem very hard to manage. But for computer illiterates, stuff like files and folders are baffling - not to mention what happens when they're faced with the control panel.
A lot of people just want some appliance that lets them read email and browse the web with a minimum amount of maintenance. That's why they're out buying iPads and that's where this CromeOS thing is aiming for also.
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Sure, for some people, managing ANY computer system is not what they know about or are interested in. What I'm responding to is the statement that managing Windows is somehow magically much harder than managing Ubuntu or a Mac. I'm also not sure, even on a browser based setup, how you are going to avoid some sort of hierarchical folder / file structure for organizing your mail / bookmarks / photos / videos / documents / whatever. If people are confused by files & folders in Windows, they are still go
Re:Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:4, Insightful)
Computer illiterates don't organize things hierarchically, at all. Look at their desktops. Once in awhile they'll put things of value in a particular folder, but most of the time everything's just spread out all over until their screen is filled with icons. Or their email box is one giant list of messages they'll either scroll through, or use the search box to sort out.
For these folks, that sort of organization isn't something they understand the value of, or would be able to accomplish if they did. It's "computer maintenance" stuff which is taking time away from the other things they'd rather be doing.
A lot of people would love to just drive at 17 (Score:3)
But usually they require lessons first.
Complex machines require training - make it too easy for the untrained and/or idiots and it'll either lose functionality or become a PITA for people who do know what they're doing. I don't want a car with a max speed of 20mph that flashes a red light and does its horn if I get within 6 foot of a kerb , and nor do I want a computer that hand holds me all the time.
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What if they don't really need the car?
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>>>I have never wiped the mac partition and it still runs just fine.
Now that I think about it, the last time I wiped XP off my PC was 2004, and it too ran fine up to November 2010. Then I wiped it clean again. So that's what? 6 years? I don't think a six-year-old Mac would even be able to run Safari 4 or iTunes 9, due to planned obsolescence.
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I've only needed to defrag a Linux box when the hard drive was allowed to get too full. But OSX? Yes.
In fact, the page you linked to reported performance improvements in Spotlight and Mail after defragmenting with iDefrag.
Re:Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:5, Insightful)
You have the strangest idea of "just works". Needs a re-install every year is part of "just works"? And, unless you are moving to a newer distro, Linux distributions don't need a re-install every year.
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You may be doing that more often than needed (Score:5, Insightful)
I've had Windows XP for almost ten years now, and I don't have to "manage" anything. Every year or so I wipe the drive with a fresh XP-CD install, and need to reinstall my favorite programs, but that would be true of any OS, whether it's Mac, Lubuntu, or Chrome.
Seriously? Do you really need to?
I've got a Windows 2000 install that's still going strong at 10 years old, and a couple of XP installs well over 5 years old. We even have a couple of Linux systems that have been running continuously longer than you keep Windows XP around - we only had to restart them during a UPS replacement. The Mac OSes only get upgrades (which counts as an install, I guess) when The Steve unveils a new version, so the system OS install I'm using right now is however old 10.6 is (about a year and a half). I have an install of OS X 10.5 on a PPC Mac at home that is still working just fine after 5 years.
So, this begs the question, what are you doing to screw up your XP installs in a year?
Even my boss, the resident malware catcher (seriously, I think he actively tries to get malware on his system) is using a three year old install of XP.
I think you'd be safe to extend your reinstall interval.
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It's the same camp of people that think Registry Cleaners are a good idea, and shutting off services they don't understand will massively help speed up their computer.
That said, applications on any OS can leave junk libraries sitting around doing nothing, old versions of libraries that exist, etc--and I think that's the primary reason for doing this, but that's not pu
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He means there is absolutely no reason to wipe and reinstall Ubuntu or OSX.
You're the one that is failing to understand this concept, which has now led you to assume that he can't read rather than consider that you might be wrong. Rather high opinion you have of yourself.
Re:Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, Rary, what is your backup policy? Do you do daily full backups rotated off-site, or do you rely on a single backup that is overwritten every day? Have you tested your restore mechanism to make sure that your backups can get you back to where you were the previous evening? If you lose a file, do you have a mechanism in place for retrieving it from backups? What if the file isn't on your most recent backup, do you have some way to retrieve it from a past backup? What mechanism do you have in place for validating that Windows updates do not break critical software on your system? Are you using a user ID that has install permissions in system folders? Do you have Javascript enabled or disabled in your browser? Which antivirus are you using? Which firewall program are you using, and what firewall exceptions are needed in that firewall for the software you require for your work to run? What anti-spyware program are you using, and are you *sure* you don't have spyware installed on your Windows system?
If you're using Windows at work at even small companies, you're using AD, where all these configuration decisions are made by the network administrator team and your desktop is pretty much locked down, with the exact validated set of software and OS patches needed to run, and you don't have administrative access to fubar the system. The usual exception is if you're a developer, where you need to regularly blow things away to test your software. Even there, you're better off using VMware or KVM rather than doing it on actual physical hardware.
BTW, Linux isn't much better here, other than that it usually comes pre-configured with defaults that work for most folks for everything except backups. I have glumly come to the conclusion that if I want something equivalent to or better than MacOS's Time Machine on Linux for doing time-based incremental backups, I'm going to have to write it myself, and it's going to have to rely on LVM's snapshotting mechanism to do a consistent backup until BTRFS is ready. Yay team. At least we have SQLite nowadays, not like when I designed BRU Server back in the late 90's...
That said, ChromeOS isn't useful for me. It might be useful for my mother, though. All she does is read email and browse the Internet. The only reason her machine, an HP laptop, isn't a reeking virus-infested spyware-riddled useless pile of plastic is because my brother does all the administrative stuff for her. Otherwise it'd be useless.
Re:Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:4, Insightful)
I use Windows at work and OSX at home and if, under the heading 'managing', you lump having to respond to all the little administrative nagging that Windows does I'd have to agree that is is torture.
Windows can't seem to understand that I'm working on something, even though Microsoft made both the OS and the word processing program I'm using. the OS blits things at me from the taskbar that I don't care about: your AV hasn't been updated recently, updates are available, three or four distinct messages just for plugging in a USB drive, it can't see my wireless network, etc etc. Then you have all the 3rd party crap doing the same thing, which I can't blame Microsoft for directly but can be unhappy that they've enabled that kind of behavior by their ridiculous security model that gives installations free reign over the entire OS.
By contrast OSX, when it has updates, opens a dialog in the background. If it loses a wireless connection or can't find one it doesn't do anything disctracting. If I plug in a USB drive an icon simply appears on my desktop, no celebration of having accomplished that mundane task is launched.
Curiously, with iOS Apple can't seem to apply this same practice of getting the administrative debris out of the user's way so they can actually use. If they don't fix notifications before my phone is up it's off to Android for me.
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Contrast : for OSX, I get a popup every couple of weeks letting me know that updates are ready.
No kidding! If only Windows has some form of Automatic Updates system built in. Where it would you know, like automatically patch Windows, your drivers, and a number of third party tools. It would be great too, if they were to put a button some place so that you could adjust the schedule, or tell it to do an update immediately, or change it from a manual process to a completely silent process. And it would be totally smart to put that button someplace really easy to find. You know, like RIGHT AT THE TOP OF
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The actual translation is "When you use Windows without Chrome, we can't track everything you do, and use that information to make money".
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Also, they completely missed the part about how "Using Windows was like living in a town of terror—it was like a terror town".
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Re:Isn't leaving things out fun? (Score:4, Funny)
The Mac loses its network connection constantly
Now we finally know why it takes forever to copy that 17MB file.
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All of my Linux machines have been "fire and forget". That includes Slackware 96 and goes all the way up to Ubuntu 10.04.
(something else upon which this ChromeOS idea is based on)
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Are you talking about Desktop OS? Are we limited to just ones that people actually use? Wouldn't that just mean Windows and Mac which are pretty much equal in the care department.
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That's a load of dingo's kidneys. I've supported regular Mac and Windows users doing very much the same kind of stuff, visiting the same sites, et cetera and the Windows machines get stunk up faster and require more maintenance. And I'm more familiar with Windows and I still say that. I think OSX is a train wreck but as a user I'd far rather that than any version of Windows to date or probably announced and impending. If I hadn't turned off automatic updates then my Linux system would have maintained itself
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For a typical user they are nearly identical. Over the years the two OS's have become almost indistinguishable and now that they use pretty much the same hardware the only difference is a matter of preference on where you like your toolbars.
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MacOS is not nearly as trouble prone as Windows. Not by a long shot. It has it's own flaws but being an ongoing maintenance and cleanup issue is not one of them.
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And how do you measure that exactly? What ongoing maintenance and cleanup are you even talking about? I can't think of anything special I do on my home computer.
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Just what "caring attention" does Windows require?
Google thinks people shoud use their os, shocker (Score:4, Insightful)
Really? This passes for a story, this is a blatant ad.
I feel no torture as I write this from my Windows box.
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I could see the "torture" thing specifically for Microsoft but it really doesn't fly for more robust products.
This really comes off like lame iPad propaganda. Except Google doesn't have any legacy products they're trying to trash.
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I work with Mac OS Leopard and Snow Leopard, Windows (XP, Vista, and 7) and Ubuntu 8 and 10; and I agree. Windows is torture. It has improved over the years, but so slowly. Certain things make no sense. Why for data backup and restore do you use two different control panels? Why is this not integrated into one; like every other data recovery program? Unfortunately it seems that Ubuntu takes a lot of it's queues from Windows rather than taking the best of either or inovating the GUI? ...but I digress...
And y
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I've been kicking around the idea for a while that MS ought to be paying us to use their OS, given that they don't seem to have managed to get one out of beta in all the years that I was using them. I'm in the process of backing up my data so that I can leave Windows for good, dual booting only for games until games no longer are supported under XP. It's gotten to the point where, finally, the last few things that I needed Windows for can be done under Linux.
It's not just the lack of consistency, it's the l
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Not really a good point. You have been using backup for years, you know where it is. Now you need to restore for the first time. The first place you are going to look is the same place that you created the backups. Thats where the restore functionality should be.
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Backup and restore, all in one simple Wizard driven UI.
Another shocker (Score:5, Insightful)
Company bringing out product says competition bad. News at 11.
Negative quote about "Microsoft and others" summarised on Slashdot as negative quote about Microsoft. News at 11.
Is anyone else as bored of this shit as me?
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It's actually interesting in a horrible sort of way- kinda like watching American politics. /popcorn
Wait, what? (Score:5, Funny)
They use Linux (amongst others) because managing Windows is too complex. Seriously?
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I take it you haven't used Linux or Windows lately. I've spent an awful lot of time over the years on things in Windows which would be very quick to address in other OSes, but I can't conveniently deal with because I didn't spend more money on the better copy of Windows. As much shit as I give Apple, at least they've its got the decency not to release multiple OSes for the same market. Sure you can get a device with the iOS, OSX or whatever specific one they now use for servers, but it's pretty clear that i
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The only limitation to Linux as a wholesale replacement for Windows is that the GUI still isn't *right*. Gnome and KDE are both -good-, but neither are -great-, about it. They feel like Windows 3.1 to me, where there's a GUI, and that's great, but you could still see the DOS prompt trying to peek out under it everywhere. With Gnome at least, it feels (to me) like the GUI just helps you find where to put the command-line stuff, but you still need to know all the bashes and slashes to make the machine comply,
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You started off so well with "no need to defrag", but you list quickly went downhill. I mean seriously? You think Linux is easier to administer because:
My filesystems are an open published standard. Good luck with reverse engineering M$ garbage.
I can audit the code and make updates myself. Yes I am a programmer.
If you are having to care about your filesystem or read source code then your system is NOT easy to use. Nor is it anything in the realms of what ordinary people can do (or would care about). How can you possibly claim that you "just use the computer" (if it is not Windows) just after saying that you have to audit the source code?
Echo of Marc Andreesen. (Score:5, Interesting)
This time around, the big difference is, Google has a revenue stream, some independence from Windows and management has some proven track record. But they are not competing against Windows95 either. Every niche from phone size all the way to 35 inch cine screen, from sub Gig memory machines all the way up to 128 GB monsters, are fully populated and variety of processors and OSes and business models proliferate. May be Chromachines will cut through the clutter and succeed. Or not. Only time will tell.
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Who knows, maybe Marc Andressen was right. A ton of infrastructure has been built to support his vision since then. Maybe the time is now.
Re:Echo of Marc Andreesen. (Score:4, Insightful)
The opportunity for browsers to take over the desktop has been stronger than ever with the rise of such heterogeneous environments on phones, tablets, PCs, home appliances, gaming consoles etc. because it's a sort-of unified platform that faces the user and is simple to use with the juicy meat of the applications neatly tucked away in some server room in a totally controlled, purpose-built and professionally managed environment (for what that's worth - shrug). When you're able to target the browser you don't have to deal with half a dozen completely different system interfaces anymore on the client side, meaning you don't have to rewrite your client big time for every new platform that comes along.
And Google actually knows how to run the servers and write the software in order to make a profit. So the chances are that Google will take a considerable portion of the market with this. If this is for better or worse, only time will be able to tell.
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Windows tortures users... what's new? (Score:5, Insightful)
The things [exclusively] Windows users experience passes for "normal" most of the time and they never realize the abuses they deal with on a regular basis.
These things simply don't exist in other OSes. Things like shutting down taking almost as much time as starting up? What could be going on in the background in the shut-down process that could or should take so long?
But to be fair, it's not just Microsoft Windows that is the cause -- it's all those damned vendors who feel like they need to install a "quick load widget" with every program. And guess what happens when EVERYTHING installs one of those? Yup! (Damn you HP and all the rest! We don't want you quick-launchers and your damned ink/toner monitors!! We don't want your convenient drag and drop DVD burner tray applet!!)
This is what really tortures users. Any one of these things by themselves are not so bad. But any combination of them will cause torture.
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A great deal of the pain of running Windows in a corporate environment comes from all of the "management" that corporations do to Windows. Some of this is clearly necessary in order to deal with n00b users and their tendency to do stupid things repeatedly. However, it does bog down Windows itself and annoys power users that realize that things don't have to be that bad (even with Windows).
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So give Windows a local permissioning system that works (a Win-chmod?) and come up with some simple profiles to select by default a point-and-clicky way.. stuff like, "Teenager", "Technical Adult", "Non-Technical Adult (n00b)", and "Computer Guy".
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I agree. Quick load widget = don't know how to write a program without using boatloads of memory.
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Choice. (Score:2)
Some people are masochists and enjoy the pain of spyware and virus removal and/or dependency issues, upgrade problems, and lack of software support.
Some people are sadists and enjoy turning the "you don't own the hardware or software" model into a real life thing which they pretend won't be like leased access to a mainframe.
Others just want to use something that works for them and don't want to have some multi-billionaire telling them what they should want.
Sergey, I'm so very glad that your staff enjoys a m
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Because you don't know what's going on behind the scenes in OSX...and yet you run Linux on home servers. I find that interesting because behind the scenes OSX is Unix. And it's not much different really from any other Unix or Unix-like OS I've used in the past 15 years.
Open up terminal and you can find out exactly what is going on "behind the scenes" the same way you can on any other BSD or Linux machine.
There is also Console and a host of other tools in the OSX Applications/Utilities folder as well that
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When the machine starts up I don't see anything. A desktop appears. I don't like that.
When I change a setting in the GUI I don't know what files were modified to make that happen.
I could go on but you get the idea.
Read between the lines (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, as a random aside, any company which moves their staff to Linux has lost a lot of legitimacy when they claim they have interests in bringing up the standard of usability or the user experience. Linux is far worse than Windows in terms of user experience (& complexity). I wouldn't even compare Linux to Windows 7, I would compare Windows 95 to Ubuntu 11, and honestly feel Windows 95 would win that battle.
Last point, I bet 70% non-Windows, means at least 60% on OS X, and approximately 10% on Linux.
Now that's missing the point (Score:2)
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Last point, I bet 70% non-Windows, means at least 60% on OS X, and approximately 10% on Linux.
You're correct. Also of note: those stats are for Google employees' work computers, not their home use, and it's because after the China gmail debacle Google decided to switch all users away from Windows. They haven't completed the process, but soon the Windows user share in Google will be down to nearly 0, because already it takes some heavy petitioning to be given an exception to the rule and allowed to keep running Windows. A lot of people are requesting those exceptions, but they're not handed out ve
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Windows 95 isn't easier to use, at least compared to OS X and Windows 7. But it is still at least a few years ahead of the best the Linux community can put out. But in fairness to them, they aren't aiming to make a desktop operating system just "anyone" can get up and use. They want to keep it as elitist and technically exclusive as possible. "READ THE MAN PAGE"
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Wow, just wow. So much FUD packed into so little space. It's almost impressive.
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I think you seriously need a reality check. Nobody, except Linux users, would use the installation, licensing, the file system layout to justify why a system has good usability. In fact the irony of that defence almost proves my point within its self.
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Ewww... (Score:2)
"Brin hopes that by next year nearly all Googlers will be using Chromebooks."
SSH, gcc, vim, Emacs in javascript?
No thanks.
Honestly yes Chromebooks would work for so many people it isn't funny. Even a small business could use Quickbooks online, and sales force. You average user can use GoogleDocs, Picasso, and so on. But local apps will always be faster than web apps. Yes you will reach good enough for a lot of things but at what cost. What benefit is there to a web based calculator vs a local app?
I will say
True for most users (Score:4, Insightful)
For them a Chromebook could be a good solution.
I am not a common user (although I am not above doing stupid things). I want to be able to configure my system to MY preferences, not some default that makes me cringe in some corners of usage.
As with everything: there is no such thing as a single perfect solution.
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As with everything: there is no such thing as a single perfect solution.
But there is a leading solution in the market. And if the solution for "not a common user" like you and me becomes unprofitable, it will stop getting made.
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because the average user has no way to know whether a program should be allowed to do what it's trying to do because Windows gives nowhere near enough information to make that decision.
Lets be honest here. The users wants to run that program, or else they wouldnt have downloaded it. What in Linux is going to prevent a user from running a program that they really want to run?
Nothing at all.
Well I must be in that other 25%, then (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd like to see a DBA, or anybody in IT for that matter, run Chrome OS nearly exclusively. That would be torture.
And I don't have to spend any undue amounts of time "managing" my computer. Maybe a new software package here and there, an occasional security update, driver update, etc. It's less effort than the real work I do, that's for sure.
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"an occasional security update, driver update, etc."
see, you are too entrenched in the habit of maintenance. For most people doing that stuff is worrisome.
People in IT are in the MINORITY of users. IT's not for us, it's for users.
This is what most people do with their computer:
Write docs
Have some simple spreadsheets
Email
Facebook
twitter
Photographs
movies.
Some TV.
Having a device for those people that they never need to worry about. When they go to get a new one, they just buy one and it works with what they do
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I run OSX at home and the office is now 100% OSX as well. This morning I was greeted by the "Please restart your machine for software update" box when I walked in. I looked at the packages wanting updated, saw a security update, java update, so clicked "Restart and Install". The machine shutdown and I went to get a cup of coffee. By the time I had my cup of coffee and was back at my desk it was installed and ready to go.
And that is about the extent of the time it takes me to "manage" my computer on a ty
Yeah, try installing Linux sometime, boddy (Score:2)
I used to think Windows was torture until I tried to get Ubuntu to recognize my goddamned dual monitor setup.
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xrandr --output VGA-0 --auto --below LVDS
Plug TV in, CTRL+F8, Presto!
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When I tried doing it a few years ago, the only way to get Ubuntu to recognize dual monitors was to go into the command line and manually modify some X.org config file with some pretty complicated alterations. And even then I never could get it to work right. I finally just gave up and reinstalled Windows. I have no doubt that things have improved since then, and a more recent single screen install went okay, except for my soundcard.
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Try 2008, dickhead. Because in 2008, Ubuntu definitely wouldn't recognize dual monitors without some pretty complex manual tweaking of the X.org config file.
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Hello Apple v2.0 (Score:2)
Forcing users to a standardized and completely controlled hardware platform allows for easier software development and less potential configuration issues. It also arbitrarily allows blocking competitors or potential competitors out. And after a while you jack prices way up above production cost and hope you get away with it because your users are bunnies that don't like to think for themselves.
They must be thinking "Apple is doing well with this, let's try it too!".
Google, if your motto is "Don't be evil",
Features (Score:2)
It's easy to criticize the complexity of Windows, OSX, and Linux machines when you are pushing a product with very few features.
Okay, maybe I'm getting old here. (Score:2)
This is a re-run of the old "you don't need a full-blown PC on your desk, you can make do with a dumb terminal" meme that was going around when I was at University. (Scary bit is that's ten years ago now).
The argument then was that networks were fast enough that you could use a bunch of dumb terminals (cheaper than Windows PCs) and save much of the messing around with things like domains and (then quite new) Active Directory.
IIRC, it wasn't that great a solution because instead of hiring a half a dozen sup
Well... (Score:2)
"With Microsoft, and other operating system vendors, I think the complexity of managing your computer is really torturing users..."
Yeah right, guess who is "another operating system vendor" now.
"Chromebooks are a new model that doesn't put the burden of managing the computer on yourself."
Most Windows users are already "not managing their computers themselves". SCNR
If Windows is torture (Score:2)
But seriously, until someone offers a better, cheaper, and more useful OS than Windows, people will use Windows.
What do you mean you can't install and configure Linux? What do you mean you don't have $1200 to drop on an Apple macbook?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
90% of the world MUST be masochists.
But seriously, until someone offers a better, cheaper, and more useful OS than Windows, people will use Windows.
What do you mean you can't install and configure Linux? What do you mean you don't have $1200 to drop on an Apple macbook?
Ubuntu:
- Installer asks me about my time zone, user name and password. Everything else can be done on autopilot.
- Once booted, if there are restricted drivers, I got a popup telling me to install them if I want. Install is a two button click: (1) Install, (2) Reboot. All this 'massive' configuration is done.
Windows:
- Installer is pretty much similar to Ubuntu, minor inquiries.
- Once booted, a lot of hardware doesn't work and I have to install drivers for everything including silly things like CPU driver and
Hire competent admins (Score:3)
If Google's 4000 Windows users are tortured by their computers, Google should hire some experienced Windows admins.
At my job, we use Active directory policies to keep users from having to admin their local workstation - in fact, we we restrict them from many admin tasks through AD policies.
How do you disable USB storage devices on thousands of Ubuntu (or Chrome) desktops because you don't want your sensitive documents walking out on portable storage devices? And then how do you easily enable it again just for your research department because they have a business need for external storage?
Note that I'm a hard-core linux geek, I run only Linux at home (and on my phone), but I realize that many of the applications my business users want to run don't run on Linux. Office is the biggest one - not everyone *needs* Office, but some people need it to run various macro packages (either self-developed or purchased)... and once we start giving Office to some departments (i.e. finance, busdev, etc), it's easier to give it to everyone for consistency. Plus any new employee we hire will already know how to use MS Office.
Managing our computers? (Score:3)
I get the feeling that some of us aren't clear on exactly what he meant by "managing" our computers. So here's my take. . .
* installing programs
* launching and closing programs
* figuring out where to store files
* finding files
And that's without even getting into stuff like antivirus or keeping backups, managing user accounts, etc. I suspect his real complaint is about things so basic that most of us don't even think about, because that's the way computers have always worked. It's the whole applications-and-files model that he's going after.
VortexCortex: ChromeOS is "Torturing Developers" (Score:5, Interesting)
Hi all. Where's my Compiler & distributed revision control? (GCC, GIT), Why can't I rewind a Google Doc? Where's my local LAMP stack? Postgresql? SQLite? Code folding and syntax highlighting in Google docs? Not there? B-But, it's running on top of GNU/Linux. I know it's using some of this underneath, why can't I access it within ChromeOS? This hurts, it's the most limited OS I've ever seen short of on a dumb "smart phone".
No thanks, I've already got all of the benefits of Google's model of cloud storage... I'll keep using my traditional model of robust "cloud" storage: An editor with auto-save enabled, editing files in a local GIT repo, with a cron job doing git commit & git push every 5 minutes or so. Note: that remote repo -- it's part of my private cloud; I also have a cron job that creates a daily private bittorrent of my media collection -- my other PCs rsync the torrent & use BT to distributively sync the media folders I've selected them to store. Bonus, when I'm offline I still have access to all the important data, and some of whatever entertainment data I'm liking right now.
"75% of business users" use Microsoft Application (Score:2)
I need Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Access and Visio. The first 3 are probably 95% of the 75% of the business community being referenced. Yes, there are OpenSource compatible equivalents for Word and Excel. There are rudimentary equivalent for Access (Base, Wavemake, Kexi, Glom) but none will import an Access DB directly so transition will be difficult for the enterprise. There is also not treal USEABLE equivalent to Visio. The closest equivalent wouldprobably be either "Open Office Draw" or DIA http://dia-ins [dia-installer.de]
It is not a new concept at all (Score:3)
"Chromebooks are a new model that doesn't put the burden of managing the computer on yourself."
Really?
What about thin clients?
And before that, what about X terminals?
There is nothing new here. It is still a good idea to some extent: for applications that can always be connected when they need to be. But there is no new concept here. The only things that are new are that (1) the client has become immeasurably more complex and heavyweight (a browser versus a terminal), with very little additional value over what X terminals offered; and (2) there is now an Internet in place so that connecting to the server is easier when it is beyond the local LAN.
If managing windows is "torture"... (Score:5, Insightful)
For most, system admin is a total waste of time (Score:4)
I'm a chip designer. While I've always been very good at software, I prefer hardware, and as I have moved more and more in that direction, I have come to feel that software stuff is mostly bullshit. Software is the stuff you write to give high level direction to the hardware. So why is everyone doing such a crap job of it? Ok, I've written GUI-based apps, plenty, and it's not easy to make a really intuitive interface. But I still can't see how CEOs of software companies like Microsoft can look at themselves in the mirror. They spend billions of dollars developing software that is absolutely horrid at automating the most basic of tasks. Computers are fantastic at fast, repetitive tasks. Making your PC connect to wireless reliably is one such task. So why can't they make it work right 100% of the time? I should never ever have to type in something that the computer can look up for itself. I should never have to do maintenance that's obvious. There are many unexpected things that happen as a result of bugs (these are unintentional) and hardware failure (shit happens). These are the times when someone has to look under the hood, because the result is largely unanticipated. This is reasonable. However, if there is something in a textbook that you can teach to someone, then it's KNOWN, and it should damn well be automated. If you can make a human procedure for it, you can make a software procedure for it. (And I'm talking about simple stuff, not computer vision or SPAM detection, although SPAM detection is automated and quite good. Irony?)
Not EVERY action can be anticipated, otherwise there would be no need for user interfaces at all. It's the things that have to be done the same way every time for everyone that should be automated. Interestingly, some software is trying to be smart and anticipate. Like automatic text substitution and spellchecking. Those don't always work right, but at least they're trying, and they're getting better at it. Similiarly, there's the way browser URL bars and search bars try to anticipate what you're trying to type and give you suggestions based on what others have done. Those are awesome (pun intended).
I actually use the command line a lot. For instance, I compile stuff using gcc. That's me doing development, not admining the machine. I also sometimes do stuff using bash that could be done using Finder (yes, I use a Mac, but I have Windows in a VM, and I have a Linux server at home). Again, that's me doing something I want to do with my files. But for the most part, you should just be able to turn your computer on, and have it get the hell out of the way of what you want to do. Want to type email? You select the Mail app, click the Compose button, and off you go. Aside from perhaps a few security measures (some of which are also lazy bullshit in the way they're designed), nothing should get in the way of that action.
Now, some of you out there like mucking about with the innards of their operating system. And that's cool for you. I know about this stuff do, and I do it better than most software engineers or CS grads. (Indeed, someone must know this, so that someone can write the OS and program the automated procedures.) But for MOST people, including those of us who have Ph.D.s in Computer Science, we have OTHER WORK TO DO. And this software bullshit (or bullshit software) is just SLOWING US DOWN.
Good Luck, Sergey (Score:3)
You've got a better chance of walking to Japan from California than you do of shoe-horning Microsoft out of 80% of their marketshare in our lifetime. Won't happen. Their entire business is built on lock-in... Nobody can just "transition out"--they've built every product for maximum lock-in and maximum cash-flow, and are building new products that you have to pay for in perpetuity.
This may yet be their undoing... Open Office has been "ready for prime time" for a few years and yet we rarely encounter anybody using it or willing to use it. I propose it all the time, but include pricing for MS Office in all proposals that include Open Office because it's the first thing clients want to know--EVEN IF THEY SIGN OFF ON OPEN OFFICE--is "Where's my Microsoft Office? My Outlook?"
Until you break that mental block, it's a pointless exercise.
Re: (Score:2)
Are there any good reasons why a business user would want to be using a laptop?
Because business users work in different locations on occasion?
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also, Google, WTG aspect ratio, with your ad text running right out of the billboard frame...
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Funny, something very similar with Sony Vaio laptops led me to drop them as a business supplier.
There is a reason why Dell, IBM et al are still selling laptops that cost 30-60% more to businesses and succeeding in doing so. It's amazing what businesses will pay in the name of not having to put up with that sort of rubbish.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I think he meant to say "It's torturing me that more people aren't sending us all of their data."
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I just love the 1980s nostalgia easter eggs that Microsoft has hidden in Windows 7. Like having to remember program names and type them in order to start them. It brings back such fond memories of DOS and pre-GUI Unix.
I know. It's almost as much trouble as having to remember words before I can use them. Why can't I just communicate with a series of points and clicks?
In reality, it's a lot easier to remember a word than a location. I may lose my pen a half dozen times a day. I've never forgotten what it