Saudi Arabia Constructing World's Tallest Building 225
kkleiner writes "1,000 meters, or 3,280 feet. That's two-thirds of a mile. When the Kingdom Tower is built on the outskirts of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia it will not only become the tallest building in the world, it will shatter the old record. The total cost for the tower is approximately $1.2 billion. It features a Four Seasons hotel, Four Seasons serviced apartments, luxury condominiums, top class office space and the world's highest observatory."
HOOOOLY SHIT (Score:2)
That's nearly twice as tall as the Burj Khalifa according to the graphic in TFA 8-(
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That's nearly twice as tall as the Burj Khalifa according to the graphic in TFA 8-(
Nah, only about 500 feet (or 20%) taller.
Re:HOOOOLY SHIT (Score:4, Informative)
Ah I see. Looks like they did their graphic wrong.
I was searching to double-check the height and it was originally planned to be 1 mile tall but they had to scale back, so I guess the graphic was based on the original height.
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There doesn't seem to be much agreement on exactly how tall it will be. Google results vary between 1 kilometer, 1 mile, and "1000-meter-plus ... a closely guarded secret".
Guess we'll just have to wait and find out.
Re:HOOOOLY SHIT (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:HOOOOLY SHIT (Score:4, Informative)
Look at the graphic again. It clearly lists the Burj Khalifa as 512m.
GameboyRMH's statement is purely accurate. According to the "graphic", it is nearly twice as tall.
Of course, the next next to the graphic lists the Burj Khalifa as 828m, which is the correct value.
The whole article is badly written, IMO.
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Our Engineers and Architects (Score:2)
In my opinion, there is something wrong when the west's best engineers and architects are designing structures in countries that train very few of their own engineers and architects. It seems to me an economic distortion that is a result of our oversized reliance on foreign oil. Our best and our brightest are often not working on building our own society. I am skeptical of the long term economic wisdom of our current system.
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Re:Our Engineers and Architects (Score:5, Insightful)
I think a lot of what we attribute to our superior economic system, or work ethic, or diversity (or maybe we don't attribute it to anything, and simply take for granted that we are #1 and always will be) is actually very predictable based on the discovery of the world's largest stockpile of undeveloped natural resources in 1492. A new resource is discovered or developed, it is exploited resulting in growth, then it peters out. Look at how population growth within the US has shifted from California to Texas in the last decade. Some say it is mostly superior governance, I say it is mostly cheap land.
I guess that explains Japan's economic success. Or Hong Kong's. Or Switzerland's. Or Taiwan's. Or Korea's. Yep. Land. I'm not sure I am fully able to explain America's economic success. But I think an hypothesis is forming for me about America's economic decline, that it is associated with an intellectual decline exemplified by half-baked economic ideologies indirectly referred to in the above comment.
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America's economic success in the 1800s and early 1900s was very different from Japan's economic success in the mid-to-late 1900s. We did it largely with natural resources, and later science and engineering talent, plus rebuilding Europe after two devastating wars. They did it with science and engineering talent and other intellectual pursuits.
And yes, our decline is largely going to be associated with intellectual decline, along with a giant amount of corruption and bad governance. We still have some re
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Coming Recession (Score:2)
Of course, there is a high coloration between building bib buildings and economic crash. Think of it as the last gasp of optimism. Think Empire State building, World Trade Center, Malaysia 10 years ago, Dubai a few years ago
Interesting (Score:5, Funny)
I assume they're building it on the site of the old Tower of Babel, as a memorial to those who lost their lives there some 6000 years ago...
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I wonder if it's a bit of architect's humor that the Burj Khalifa's sections hint at a conical tower with a spiralled path on the outside like the traditional depictions of the Tower of Babel.
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Ziggurats usually have terraced sides and a set of stairs (if anything) to get to the top, not the same thing as a spiral path, although they have kind of a similar look. The sections of the Burj Khalifa have offset heights like parts of a spiral path, and I can't think of any historical structure with a spiral path winding to the top.
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Huh, you learn something every day...
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Merde! Je comprends pas ce que tool462 a écrit!
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Tidak apa apa.
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No entiendo ni puta madres... qué chingaos dicen?
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I get the humour, but the tower of Babel was supposed to have been located in Mesopotamia - i.e modern Iraq
Large buildings in small cities (Score:3)
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Four Seasons isn't counting on western tourists too much anymore; they're increasingly serving Chinese patrons.
In mekka? (Score:2)
Parts are restricted to non-muslims. Presumably not the parts westerners buy oil but Mekka is not a city known for its openness to visitors.
Observatory doesn't mean what I thought (Score:5, Interesting)
When I first read that my first thought was that they would have telescopes up there. But all they mean is an observation deck. How disappointing.
More seriously, TFA discusses how this is part of the attempt by Saudi Arabia to move away from having an economy run off of oil. So this will have hotels and offices inside. I'm not sure that this is the best thing to do to get off of such things given how many basic problems Saudi Arabia has and how many fairly cheap things could be done to improve the education and general productivity of most of the population.
One thing that will be an obvious issue for such a large building is the exact layout and behavior of the elevator system. Some modern tall buildings have elevators that don't have simple up and down buttons but rather have a keypad where one punches in what floor one wants to go to and then the system optimizes which elevator to send to you rather than simply sending the next available elevator in that direction. This also allows elevators to travel at faster than the amount they can deaccelerate in a single floor. There's some non-trivial math involved in making such systems, and even making them slightly more efficient can have large scale payoffs simply due to the sheer number of people. As real-estate becomes more expensive and scarce throughout the planet, we're going to need to look more and more at how pre-existing very large buildings have handled these sorts of issues. So I'm happy that we have people like the Saudis doing this now long before we really need it.
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Another big problem is the shear amount of space these mega sky scrapers make available. This single building will probably represent a 25% increase in the amount of lease-able business space in the downtown area, and it will of course come with a premium price point so that you can say you have offices in the tallest building in the world.
Take a look at what happened to the Burj Khalifa, and how many of their spaces are sitting empty today because of a slump in their economy.
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When I first read that my first thought was that they would have telescopes up there. But all they mean is an observation deck. How disappointing.
Yeah that didn't make much sense to me... It wouldn't even be close to the highest observatory, because those usually go on mountains which still beat the pants off our structures. And they also go as far from civilization as possible because of light pollution.
Oh well. I still see no reason they couldn't put a reasonably big telescope on it!
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The sway that you get at the top of a skyscraper would make telescopes impractical, they'd have to constantly compensate for variation in sway due to wind.
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Oh, I see. Hey, maybe with the money they're throwing at it they can have such a compensation system. At least one good enough for a scope meant for tourists to look through! But yeah, seems pretty pointless. Why did they say "observatory" in the summary anyway?
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No, you're completely right, it would be ridiculous to have a real scientific observatory there just for altitude and light pollution reasons. That's why it struck me as very odd.
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An office-mate of mine in graduate school had worked on a predictive elevator algorithm that is found in some larger office buildings. It tracks the temporal pattern of elevator calls and tried to optimize empty car direction (up, down) and idle placement, among other things. So, for example, at 9am, the optimal action for an empty car without a pending call is to go to the ground floor since it's highly likely the next call will come from people entering the building to head to their offices. Similarly,
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Given a few minutes' worth of thought, I'm sure nearly anyone on Slashdot could come up with some very good ideas on optimizing not only empty direction and idle placement for a single car, but multiple cars as well.
Shit, we can do it better. We can always do it better. That's why we're here.
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I'm not sure that this is the best thing to do to get off of such things given how many basic problems Saudi Arabia has and how many fairly cheap things could be done to improve the education and general productivity of most of the population.
The last thing the Saudis want is an educated populace. This is about the super rich blowing their money for fun, they do not care about the general population one iota.
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lot's of Tall sky building have sky lobbies where (Score:2)
You take a express elevator that stops only at the sky lobby's and then switch over to a local one (some of them have local stacked on top of each other so they don't need lot's of space for all the elevators) other places have banks of elevators that only go to one set of floors.
The keypad system may be better for places where most of the elevators stop on all floors.
re: elevator layout (Score:2)
That's actually my biggest concern about these super tall structures. It seems like the more occupants you place in a single structure, the more you risk accidents that cause a need for evacuation (fire most obviously, but also such things as flooding from burst pipes or carelessness). If a far more efficient system of elevators isn't put together than what I normally see used, I'd worry about the safety of such buildings. I know we've got a pretty basic 22 story apartment building (former hotel) here in
We don't need a spec (Score:4, Interesting)
From TFA:
The final details of Kingdom Tower’s design are yet to be worked out, but construction is to begin immediately.
We all know how well that impacts budgets and schedules for software projects!
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You know that it's going to need one hell of a foundation, regardless of what the finials on the tippy top look like.
Re:We don't need a spec (Score:5, Interesting)
That and there's going to be hectares upon hectares of land that need to be cleared, barracks and sundry support systems for the thousands of construction workers that need to be built along with access roads and materials staging areas. If the weight budget has been finalized, the geological surveys for the foundation and maybe even the excavation can begin.
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Right, because extravagance is unbounded (Score:2)
...and that means extravagance should not be bounded, espeicailly in the oil-rich middle east (or Texas).
http://guide.theemiratesnetwork.com/living/dubai/images/the_palm/palm_jumeirah.jpg [theemiratesnetwork.com]
A white elephant (Score:2)
So will anyone go there? If you like a drink, are female or gay, Christian or atheist is there any way you would go there unless you were forced to do so on business?
And once the oil does run out the reasons for doing so become even more remote.
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Perhaps, given that there are over a billion Muslims in the world [wikipedia.org], they don't care what you think.
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It's also less than 100km from Mecca, if I was going to build a Muslim tourist trap that's where I'd put it.
Waste of money (Score:2)
However building the tallest phallic symbol just requires throwing money at immigrant workers, and in the long run will accomplish nothing much except an impressive symbol of wasted wealth. But it leaves more playtime for the rulers, and a clear sense of accomplishment ("look at that!")... as opposed to actually empowering thei
Burj Kalafia - space available (Score:2)
If you want an apartment in Dubai, the Burj Kalafia has space available. Rates start at about $20K/year for a hotel-room sized apartment.
Ten years later.... (Score:2)
It gives Al Qaida . . . (Score:2)
Something wrong with using a future tense? (Score:2)
"Saudi Arabia Begins Construction of [what will be the] Worldâ(TM)s Tallest Building
"The total cost for the tower is [estimated to be] $1.2 billion. It [will] feature a Four Seasons hotel, Four Seasons serviced apartments, luxury condominiums, top class office space and [what will be] the world's highest observatory."
That said, I predict financial failure IF it ever gets built because (news flash) almost no one wants to visit Saudi Arabia and those who want to won't be able to afford staying in that bu
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Saudi Arabia has Mecca, which means every Muslim wants to visit it since they are required to go to Mecca once in their lifetime.
It's sort of like the oil--it gives the Saudis a windfall which they can get just by being there without doing anything to improve their country.
Big target? (Score:2)
I'm no expert on middle east politics, but there seems to be some amount of conflict over there. Saudi Arabia seems to be among the friendlier countries, but there's no guarantee that they won't be attacked by some radicals who think the Saudis aren't Muslim enough or something. Or maybe the Saudis will piss off the Israelis. However you spin it, this building could conceivable make a nice big target for some terrorists.
So who would want to work there?
Mane one larger (Score:2)
Now someone needs to make one with a volume of 3*3*3 KM
I guess all Binladens don't destroy buildings (Score:2)
"Among investors is the Binladen Group, the Saudi construction giant owned by the family of Osama bin Laden."
Re:Short-Sighted (Score:5, Interesting)
When the oil dries up it's going to become a playground for the hyper-rich, at least that's their plan.
If that fails, well it'll make an awesome post-apocalyptic wasteland.
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If that fails, well it'll make an awesome post-apocalyptic wasteland.
True, but who is going to want to climb that many flights of stairs to have their climactic last-stand against the zombie hordes on the observatory deck?
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"Who the hell... puts an evac station... up three hundred flights of goddamn stairs?" - Coach, Left 4 Dead 2
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Zombie hordes? Come on, there needs to be some kind of big bad guy at the top. I'm thinking a cross between the Maledict and DMC4's lightning demon. Players will shit their pants.
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True, and the artist's rendition of the observation deck, a big round platform sticking out the side of the building, just screams "boss fight arena!"
Inside, just before you head out onto the deck, there should be a little atrium where you can find crates full of ammunition.
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OTOH this could be their plan for increasing non oil (tourism) revenue
Re:observatory (Score:5, Insightful)
The bigger issue, I think, is that this is basically a giant vanity project that will probably end up like the Burj Khalifa: Deep in debt with rapidly falling rents and tons of empty space. Jeddah is right next to Mecca, so they probably won't have a lot of trouble filling it with rich foreign Muslims during the Hajj, but it seems like it would be a bit of a challenge during other parts of the year. I guess the Saudis have enough money to burn on crap like this, but it seems they could find a more intelligent way to invest in their own country other than building giant luxury hotels.
Re:observatory (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:observatory (Score:5, Insightful)
The most prominent ruin-to-be from the height of the empire, the days of peak oil. Give it 50 years and the few rag-clad scavengers populating the lower levels will wonder what the fuck anyone thought when they built this....
Brings to mind the Aztechnology building from Shadowrun. C*O's and filthy rich at the top, and the just plain filthy at the bottom.
Re:observatory (Score:5, Funny)
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Yeah, all the jobs created by the construction and then the running of the building and all the tourist monies are of no use to anyone.
Re:observatory (Score:4, Insightful)
isn't the middle of a city a bad place for an observatory with all the light pollution and whatnot?
I think they mean observatory as in "a place to look out and observe". Not an astronomical observatory.
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I don't think they mean an astronomical observatory. I believe it's just a deck where people can view the surrounding land.
Wow! Look at all that sand!
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It's not too far from 2/3. (1.86)/3 is more accurate, if you want to stick with thirds.
5/8 is the fraction I would have used, seeing as anyone who runs track in the U.S. knows that 1600m is about 1 mile.
Re:Not two thirds (Score:4)
In work time sheets, I prefer to call 45 minutes an hour.
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Yes. A total lack of concern for the welfare of the people of the world, whom they're reaming on energy prices and threatening to enslave with their idiot religion.
Re:Compensating for something? (Score:5, Insightful)
You should check out what they are doing to their own subjects, makes their relationship to the rest of the world look downright friendly.
Re:Compensating for something? (Score:4, Interesting)
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I don't know about the timing, but the idea is sound.
The idea being, if there was anywhere else worth investing the money, nobody would create a hyperexpensive cash sink like that.
I think the failure of humanity in this regard is that we allow it to happen, instead of immediately confiscating the cash and giving it to people who can use it to create demand that, for everyone else, would be worth investing to supply.
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The next time you go at the pump, think about that !
The consolation is that a US firm was paid to design it for them.
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Even at 1000 meters, you'd only be able to see about 120 km. The distance you can see over the horizon is roughly proportional to the square root of your height above the surface. To see Somalia from Jeddah, you'd have to build a 100km tall tower. If they built it to 3000m, you might be able to see northern Sudan from the peak.
As to feeding Somalis, assuming about 1 USD / day to feed a person, you could feed all of Somalia for 4 months
You can feed Somalia for 4 months (Score:5, Insightful)
And then they'd go back to starving again.
I heard it said once, and it seems true for the most part when describing populations: People don't starve, people are starved.
They are starved by communism (forced farm collectivation), a kleptocracy that keeps everything to the dictator and his supporters, wars that displace people and ruin crops, or they are purposely starved as part of a program by the rulers to suppress a certain demographic.
Donations of food will only temporarily alleviate the problem. A bomb dropped on the dictator's palace might be money better spent.
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A bomb dropped on the dictator's palace might be money better spent./quote.
Not unless you first come up with some way to ensure that another doesn't take his place.
I figure a bomb every three months (Score:2)
Knock off each up-and-coming warlord before he can consolidate his power. In the perpetual confusion at the top, the people at the bottom will be able to organize themselves and begin providing food.
It costs about $30,000 total to deliver a smart bomb. Not a bad deal, much cheaper than just giving food.
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Knock off each up-and-coming warlord before he can consolidate his power. In the perpetual confusion at the top, the people at the bottom will be able to organize themselves and begin providing food.
You don't need to consolidate power at the level of the country to effectively suppress the population. Even a few villages is enough. Just look at Somalia - not just the big players, but hundreds of small warbands, each dominating their own area with quickly shifting alliances.
The only ones that can remove the dictators and keep it that way are people who're being oppressed by them. External intervention is only meaningful when there is conventional warfare with a well-defined entity on the other side (e.g
Good argument for special ops (Score:2)
Train the locals to kill the warlords, and help them do it.
This was really a somewhat factual joke. But sending food is pointless, since it doesn't help in the long run, and can even serve to help prop up the dictator or warlord who is the source of the starvation. Either he confiscates the food to prop up the regime, the food going to the people allows him to confiscate more local food to prop up the regime, or the people finally being fed can alleviate the dissatisfaction that could cause them to revolt.
I
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I never quite understood the claims that Somalia has no government. Isn't "warlord" just another term for "government, run as dictatorship, controlling a small area, without membership in the United Nations"? The only difference between Saudi Arabia and a Somali warlord is a matter of scale and the fact that the Saudis have more money.
Re:How many hungry people could be fed instead? (Score:4, Informative)
Protip:
The causes of famine are politics first, logistics second, and lack of actual food last. It's been this way for a long time. If you have warlords refusing NGOs like UNICEF, then the problem isn't spending money on a building a thousand miles away. There is plenty of food to go around. The problem is getting it there.
--
BMO
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The problem is getting it there
And the difficulty increases as the accuracy of 'there' increases. It's trivial to get food to, say, Africa. It's fairly easy to get food to a specific country. Getting it to a famine site within the country is harder. Getting it to a famine site and distributing it to the people who are actually starving, rather than the ones with guns is really difficult.
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hierophanta = _______ : fill in the blank...
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Also, a period of economic growth is usually followed by a recession, which is followed by another period of economic growth.