A Decade of Haiku OS 203
CharlyFoxtrot writes "Haiku OS, the open source reimplementation of BeOS, celebrated its tenth birthday this week. 'Ten years ago today, the first post appeared on the mailing list of our project — then still called "OpenBeOS" — officially marking the start of our endeavor. Back then, with the imminent demise of Be Inc., there was an excitement and creative motivation in the air, that lead many to think a first release was only a matter of a few years. As it turns out, this estimation was a bit too optimistic ...' The project is currently on the third alpha of its Haiku Release 1."
Here's to another 10 more... (Score:2, Interesting)
Assuming the OS makes it that far.
Now that they're done trying to clone BeOS (for which they did a fine job), they're starting to go and do their own thing. Much to the despair of everyone else- these new tangents of development are very un-BeOS like and lack the elegance their role model exhibits. The package manager/filesystem they're trying to implement is a perfect example of this.
I sincerely hope that they figure that stuff out- lest Haiku turn into an unmaintainable, overcomplicated piece of junk. It
We really do need more. (Score:2)
I use linux all the time, I'm not a windows fan, but linux ain't right. Cut and paste don't quite work right, sometimes the middle mouse works, sometimes ctrl insrt, sometimes ctrl-v, and sometimes you cant do it without some intermediat
Re:We really do need more. (Score:4, Informative)
1. Install the Parcellite clipboard manager [sourceforge.net].
2. Choose 'synchronize clipboards' in the options.
3. Done.
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The Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V are supported to improve the learning curve for fresh Windows refugees. This should not be stampe
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I assume you belong to the guys who don't know what ctrl-F is or what ctrl-S does or for what ctrl-W is nor ctrl-Z either?
Come on, sure some people dont get what the trick si about pressing simultaniously ctrl + another one, but they do it with shift every day so it is easy to explain.
Just X Windows defined the middle button for paste it does not make it right or the non plus ultra. BTW: there are no two copy keys ... one is a cut key!!
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I assume you belong to the guys who don't know what ctrl-F is or what ctrl-S does or for what ctrl-W is nor ctrl-Z either?
Sounds like a challenge!
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Don't remember to whom I answered was that you? At least on my first answer I assumed he was claiming that windows/mac users did not know what ^C/^X and ^V are for ;D
On Windows and a Mac all the keys usually do the same: ^Z undo, ^F find, ^S save, ^W close window. On Mac its the "Mac key" instead of ^ ofc.
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===
Copy and Paste:
Contrary to what you may have come to believe, copying and pasting text under X11 works pretty much exactly the same way it does under MacOS and Windows. Really. It works like this:
Re:We really do need more. (Score:4, Interesting)
For a fascinating look at this. Check out this blogpost [wordpress.com] where they take a 60 year old cafeteria employee who has never used a computer and put him in front of a browser:
"I give him the same task: find a local restaurant. He stares at the screen for awhile with his hand off the mouse, looking confused. I ask what he’s looking for. “I don’t know, anything that looks like it will help!” he says. Finally, he reads the Apple context menu at the top of the screen, and his gaze falls on the word Help.
“Help, that’s what I need!” says Joe. He clicks on Help, but looks disappointed at what he sees in the menu.
“None of these can help me,” he says."
RIP BeOS (Score:3)
-- Jean-Louis Gassée, CEO Be, Inc.
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C'mon, now; this is important. Apple's OS just doesn'ttake full advantage of my 68040; now I'll be abletousemysystem asitshpuld ha been in the first place.
Those guys buying the PowerPC macs are just fools . .
Tablet Version Please? (Score:3)
So it arrives just in time for the post PC era?
Don't get me wrong, I tried Alpha 2 a while ago and I think that if they finish it and if it got support from the developer community it would be the best desktop OS ever: The UI is excellent and it is very developer friendly.
What I don't like about it is that it is basically just BeOS: A normal PC OS. And are you really sure that PCs will be the Computer of choice for anyone besides office workers and Slashdot readers?
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And are you really sure that PCs will be the Computer of choice for anyone besides office workers and Slashdot readers?
When I get home from work, I surf on my PC and watch videos. What else would I choose for that, off work, that would be as nice as having a full sized keyboard and screen?
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you'd choose a touch tablet in the bed start wondering why you're having back and wrist problems..
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I don't have any back, wrist or eye problems. I work at a computer all day and spend a few hours on a PC at home. Good diet and the gym I guess.
I can't see a tablet on my couch being as useful/fun when I get home as a very nice PC on my large desk and my comfy big chair.
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That's a nifty idea. I wonder if it would be possible to somehow power the tablet from the HDMI cable, perhaps with some kind of injector, using any unused lines... Heck, you could handshake it, which would keep the injector expensive, sounds like a win for the manufacturer... and right up Apple's alley, if they weren't in love with inventing new connectors.
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What you can't already connect tablets up to bigger displays?
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why a cable? and why hdmi?
I do some of this now with flingo.org for video - and the reading crap on my laptop..
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It would require an ARM port to run on ARM tablet systems. Most tablets these days are ARM based. Microsoft wants Windows 8 to run on ARM tablets. If HaikuOS can run on ARM systems it will have a lower overhead than Windows 8 and thus run faster with less memory.
It has been a decade and still is in alpha release, if some major computer company was investing in it like they did the Mozilla Foundation we'd have a golden 1.0 release by now.
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There has been some ARM porting [haiku-os.org] work done but as you say they are working with limited resources. I think if a company were to want to develop a new tablet OS from scratch, they could do worse than basing it on Haiku which is released under the very permissive MIT license. Hell, if Apple could cut OSX down to tablet size it could surely be done with the much leaner Haiku.
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The thing is that there's really no compelling reason to use Haiku because there's no applications to speak of except some ports. Therefore it makes more sense to use Linux (GPL), Linux with your own userland (kinda GPL) or some BSD (copyright only) depending on their particular needs. Tablets are only getting more powerful, which reduces the benefit of a lightweight OS.
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There were no applications for Android when they started of either, nor for (the now maybe defunct?) WebOS. Besides realistically, none of the existing FOSS apps are going to be ported straight over to modern type tablets (ie. no stylus, etc) because they aren't built from the ground up around a touch based metaphor. I also think there will be some enduring benefits for lightweight OS's yet on tablets, like better battery life for one. The hardware will no doubt get faster but tablets are very constrained b
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There's not "tons" of those, there's a handful of those. I am given to understand a number of them are pretty cool but the number is still not very big.
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Tada! BeBits! [bebits.com]
Enjoy the BeBits archive, get a knife and fork so you can eat your words dinkypoo.
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You don't need to take on all the baggage if you don't want to. You might reasonably claim to be tied to X at this point, which probably implies a moderately POSIX environment in there someplace. After that you are free to go off in another direction. Openstep is one example, but you could easily be more radical. I for one would very much like to see someone use the Linux kernel to build a substantially different operating system, one in which the POSIX environment is de-emphasized. Traditionally, attempts
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Hell, if Apple could cut OSX down to tablet size
Then it would be called iOS.
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Yeah sorry, I messed up my tenses. What I meant was: "If Apple can do it with OSX, then surely it could be done with Haiku."
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FTFY
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You could be the CEO of a major failing corporation with insight such as that.
Kudos!
It's just Haiku btw (Score:2)
We know it's an OS :P
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I felt compelled to throw it in there. People are always complaining that there's no explanation in the summary of project names and such and I don't know how much of the current Slashdot readership actually remembers the BeOS, it has been a long time.
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To put that time into perspective:
I have three grandchildren without having children as old as BeOS . . .
Maybe they can port this thing to the new Amiga . .
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Sweaty fingers, in the summer afternoon
look up "haiku", which a webpage mentions:
confusion ensues.
vs Hurd (Score:2)
Well, if your OS is less relevant than Hurd these days -- and less capable -- you might have a problem.
And if you don't (Score:2)
And if you don't know the difference between a kernel and an OS on Slashdot and post as if they are the same, you DO have a problem.
Prepare for ridicule.
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For a long time, Hurd was merely a part of the GNU system, that just happened to be not functional "yet". You had GNU/Linux vs plain "GNU". It's only decades of Linux' dominance and Debian's concept of the kernel being interchangeable (linux vs kfreebsd vs hurd) that caused us to think about Hurd as something on its own.
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Yes, we all sat around thinking of the GNU operating system, and singing its praises.
Never mind that there wasn't a single system in the universe that ran this system after decades; we knew it would be great when it came.
So we made sure not to give any credit to any of the systems that used it's pieces. After all, they were just kernels, or just full Unix operating systems, and other insignificant things; it was all about GNU.
hawk
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I'm torn here: is relevant than Hurd more or less embarrassing than still in alpha after Duke Nukem has shipped?
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So does Hurd [debian.org], and there's orders of magnitude more software you can run on it.
Congrats Haiku Project (Score:3)
It's great that you made the 10 year anniversary. I'm rather impressed by the quality of the system at this point. It's a lot of work that most people will never understand. (Yeah i run an even less relevant OS project)
Working on Linux isn't the same thing. There are many people that work on Linux. Keeping a smaller project running is a lot more challenging. They had the magic to attract help, but at the Linux levels. I think they'll have something quite usable in some time. I've dug through some of their code and it's quite good in many places.
A few days after HP all-but killed WebOS (Score:2)
How appropriate.
BeOS was designed as a replacement for MacOS, unfortunately, Steve one-uped Jean-Louise with NeXT and stole that crown with a superior product. I still prefer
BeOS over NeXT though
The last efforts of Be Inc. was to bundle the lightweight BeOS into Internet Appliances, a concept not dissimilar to Tablet-based computers. They even had a Tactile UI called BeIA, (which although completely unrelated to) could be considered a precursor to modern tablets.
PalmSource bought Be Inc.'s IP and planned to
Download it and play with it (Score:2)
Every now and then I'll download and play with one of the "alternative" OSs. The box I'm typing this on (a Mac running Lion) has VMware installs of Haiku, Syllable [syllable.org] (what AtheOS evolved in to), Minix [minix3.org], and several flavours of Linux. What next? MVS under Hercules [hercules-390.org], perhaps?
Technically, Minix is the most interesting. Haiku is the prettiest.
...laura
Re:Maybe next year... (Score:4, Funny)
It's too early, but by 2013, HP will ship the same amount of (Windows XP,Vista,7,8) as Haiku desktop PCs. Other manufacturers will soon follow suit.
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App development is too easy with Haiku. If only people would make apps that people would realy want, like some cool games and a much better digital office bundle it would kill Windows just as fast as people would switched from the PS2 to the Xbox360.
The reason no OS on the planet has ever beaten Windows (including that iCrap), is because it offered nothing better than Windows that people realy, realy wanted to run. Yes it was technologically better as in a car with the best engine on the world, but without
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It's not that hard to beat Windows, but you must offer apps that people want so badly that they'll dump Windows apps for it.
Sure, you just need a better, more stable, easier-to-use OS with more exclusive, powerful, easy to use apps that runs on 500 million different computer setups.
Easy.
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Easy to use is not the point. If you create a car that steers for you but you still lack that airco then you're still not going to sell anything.
Think of the following possible situation:
A couple of enthousiastic and talented people make a game today, with the awesomeness factor in which the original Doom was once released onto the internet. You can bet your ass that I'll be installing Haiku as dual boot, just to play that game. I'll be dual booting.
Then Haiku gets a super awesome HTMLv5 browser. Might as w
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What freaking reason would I have to reboot to Windows? Video editing? Like more than 5% of all people do that... Photoshop? Like more than 5% of all people do that.
Like more than 5% connects to a company exchange server, or use any other random software only available on Windows/OS X. You see, those 5% you're talking about aren't always the _same_ 5%. Every little percentage adds up, and that's why GNU/Linux hasn't taken off, all the small % adds up to a lot, and it just isn't a replacement for them.
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Outlook 2010 has a web interface for your email and agenda. Argument flies out of the windows, still...
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"Haiku Browser" is Firefox. Still no argument...
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Nice to know that they changed it from this: http://www.mozilla.org/ports/beos/ [mozilla.org]
And since it works on Chrome (webkit), it should also work on Webpositive.
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I'm not the biggest fan of Outlook (or OWA), but we use it at work, and OWA is actually pretty decent in web browser support. It works in IE of course, Firefox, Chrome, and Safari (and maybe other browsers that I haven't tried). According to this site [w3schools.com], as of June 2011, that's 97% of the browser market share.
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It's about to use the Gallium3D driver architecture, for which there is a nVidia driver (which kinda sucks if you intent to play anything more demanding than Quake3 on it) and AMD actually has active driver development on it, which is about 25-125% performance of the blob (depending on various tests, but Doom3 runs fine, so I guess it's not a desaster).
BTW Android just had a Gallium3D tree merged...
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of course the day that happens I'll be riding a purple pony with She Ra
Ponies! I call shotgun!
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While I agree with the sentiment in general, it's not necessarily a reason to not use Linux in the h
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Now a days OS/2 uses a port of Alsa for sound cards, works fine. Serenity Systems has the source code for Scitech now so hopefully the weak link, graphics support, will be fixed though I'm sure you'll still have to be careful of your hardware purchases. One nice thing is that IBM considers multi-core chips to be one CPU so your Warp V4 system is licensed for SMP as long as there is one physical chip.
To run OS/2 in Virtual box you need at least V4.5 (V4 + all the free fixes) and unluckily even though Vbox wa
Re:Maybe next year... (Score:4, Insightful)
You want to know how to get Linux some share? As a retailer I'll be happy to let you know, it is really easy...1.-GET RID OF THE DAMNED TERMINAL! It ain't 1979 anymore and disco is fricking dead, let go of the fucking blinking cursor, alright? Consumers ain't gonna put up with that shit, it has to go DIAF.
What blinking cursor? You mean that one that is right at home in pretty much every text editor used today? Or the one in all Web browsers' location/address/search bars? Or the ones in those various other text entry boxes in just about any other program?
The above quote was pretty damn dumb, but the rest of your post is just plain retarded. You better tell Apple and Microsoft to ditch their respective command line terminals. Modern Linux distros that focus on new users (and there are a lot of them) rely on the command line about as much as Windows and Mac OS do for the most part. The only time I use the terminal is when I *want* to use the terminal; ie., to do things quicker and more efficiently that I would otherwise be able to with *any* GUI. And in those times... I'm happy to have a terminal that works so well compared to the crap Command Prompt included with Windows.
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Can you give me the best example of where the terminal would be more useful than any alternative?
Re:Maybe next year... (Score:4, Insightful)
Easily: installing new software.
For example, "q) How do I install a web server?"
"a) sudo apt-get install apache" (tabbed-auto-completion helps here!)
It works for almost any questions about the OS: with Windows, the answers are "Click Start, click this, click that, click X tab, click something, select something, clickety-clickety-click, click OK, reboot."
In *nix, it's always something like: "copy the following 3 lines and paste them in a terminal running as root. Change XYZ to what your needs are. Done."
Truly, many things are faster in the terminal window - as long as your fingers are on the keyboard anyway.
Hope that helps.
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a: This helps my case even more. The whole thing software installation should be automated, and in the future it certainly will be. Hence making the terminal/shell/cli/console/command line prompt (or whatever it's called next Tuesday) redundant.
As for your second point, that comes more under the realm of documentation/preferences. Instead of a terminal to display this information, we should be using a real-time filtered info window, where any text typed (into a single line's textbox, no more) filters out in
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I think you rather missed the point.
If you want automated installation, Linux or BSD are the way to go, both use GUIs or CLIs (your choice) for the same thing.
But the user must be involved to some point, like choosing whether to install MySQL server or client, etc.
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Having read your original post again more properly this time, you're right, it almost feels like a different post, at least the first half or so (that's an odd feeling!). Let me try again:
Yes, Windows can easily make what should be a one step process into a million steps. But that's with a bad design. I'm saying what could be, rather than what is (I too hate having to trundle through window after window in the way you spoke of).
To give a better idea of how the GUI can work for speed instead of against; pict
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Er just to clarify the last sentence of my post; obviously one would need to type in keywords, but I meant it would be quicker than typing what would be the equivalent of the CLI version. Heck, I'm tired..... time for bed.
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Yeah this works if you already know what to type. Otherwise the steps become:
1. Search Google for "how to install apache on ubuntu" which leads to a site saying "Invoke Apt-Get in the following way: sudo apt-get install apache".
2. Google "How to invoke commands on linux". That doesn't actually lead to any results like "Click Applications->Accessories->Terminal". You may think it's obvious, but a newbie would *not* know this.
3. Type the command.
4. Get really confused when typing in the password prompt
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That comes more under the realm of documentation/preferences. Instead of a terminal to display this information, we should be using a real-time filtered info window, where any text typed (into a single line's textbox, no more) filters out information on the fly into the main display area. The terminal is far from ideal for this kind of thing.
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Your audio example could easily be a custom-made preset inside a GUI. You'd get the same thing done with one or two clicks. If you wanted different values each time, then the tab in the gui would replace the space bar in the terminal, as it would move on to the next field/textbox.
If software is written right, it will be as stable as any terminal.
I hate kludgy slow software as much as anyone (hence why I'm so interested in Haiku, and wrote an article about latency which made Slashdot's news a short while bac
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I have a daemon here, awget which monitors the clipboard (can also be a folder for drag'n'drop) and launches wget. So find file I want to download, hilite and copy, click yes on popup, and wget the file.
Of course this is old technology so probably wouldn't work in anything designed in the 21st century. (OS/2 here)
It's also trivial to encode a file as you mention from the GUI though you still have to enter the parameters into a popup.
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I still can't think of a good reason why the terminal should be necessary or even useful. Things should either be automated so the CLI isn't necessary and a singler folder filesystem would supplant any disk navigation CLI queries.
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Maybe because he has found reasonable replacements for all the apps that he wanted?
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as in...ZERO since HP is getting out of the business.
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Mathematical concepts don't exist in reality? A lot of people could ADD to that discussion, but there is a high probability of DIVIDING the audience into mutually mis-communicating groups, which would MULTIPLY the number of times I'd need to explain things, and in turn SUBTRACT from my time in the pub.
Pretty much all of which are undesirable outcomes, in my book. And in the pub's books too.
I don't know what you thin
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ass.
Some asses are discrete and others seem to be continuous.
Re:Happy Birthday! (Score:4, Insightful)
Copyright violation detected. Scrambling all lawyers.
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It hasn't been released yet.
Can we call it born?
Another headline
might be more appropriate.
Perhaps we can say:
"The Haiku OS,
has been in prenatal care,
40 trimesters."
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that isn't a Haiku. it is a poem that consists of three verses that are set up in the 5-7-5 format.
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Why would it? Does anyone actually use "custom skins"?
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Everyone but Windows and Mac users, yes. And I have the Zune theme on my Windows XP machine...
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Today is a good day to Zune. February 29th, not so good.
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I don't, I've never used Windows so I'm not really aware of what Windows users do.
I've used various different Linux desktops, but never felt the need to change the "skin".
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I've used various different Linux desktops, but never felt the need to change the "skin".
If you've used various different Linux desktops, odds are that you've already used different themes on the same major version of desktop without even doing anything, because each major distribution tends to have its own theme or at least theme selection.
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Maybe, maybe not. It's not something I actually set out to do, though, and I can't really understand why you'd want to.
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Everyone but Windows and Mac users, yes.
So everyone but 95% of PC users on the planet.
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When you say "everyone but Windows and Mac users", you do realize that you're only talking about less than 1% of the entire PC market (including laptops and netbooks)?
Computers are more than laptops and netbooks and tablets and servers. There are also cellphones and pretty much any color phone has themes. Heck, even some mono ones do. Truth is that skinnable interfaces are the norm. Windows has a skinnable interface but only enthusiasts typically mess with it. Microsoft has released (AFAIK) precisely two themes for Windows XP, Zune and San Fermin. But skinnable applications are also the norm; what Windows user hasn't used Windows Media Player? Selecting another skin is a
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There is some support for skinning, as one of the devs explains here [haiku-os.org]. But the whole project is very much focussed on getting the R1 done, which is as close to the original BeOS, which is an 90's OS even though it was ahead of its time in many ways, as they can get. There are discussions on where to after that in the glass elevator [haiku-os.org] project though.
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> There are discussions on where to after that in the glass elevator project though.
Given the mailing list archive stopped in 2009, a more correct phrasing would be: "there were discussions".
Given the (lack of) speed of development of the cloning of the original BeOS, it's not very surprising that the discussions about the future have stalled..
A reminder that the NIH syndrome has (mostly) killed another nice project *sigh*.
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It is being ported, but [haiku-os.org] :
"There are still some hangups to getting the first bootstrap build
going. It would be really helpful if someone could figure out the
issues between haiku and gcc such that gcc could be built with the
java support, so we could use it for bootstrapping."
There's a Gnash port [haikuware.com] too, though personally I think they'd be better off focussing on a good HTML5 capable browser, Flash is a dead man walking.
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Flash is a dead man walking.
And it'll keep walking as long as Strong Bad Emails are still made in Flash. Or are you putting your faith in Smokescreen [smokescreen.us] to emulate existing SWF animations on top of HTML5?
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I haven't been to Homestar Runner in years, are they still releasing new stuff. All those comics could just as easily be streamed in h264, they are already released as DVD's so they must have them in some video format or other. The migration to HTML5 is already under way I think. I mean who in his right mind would release a new site with a flash interface these days ? These things happen very fast, one day you're on top the next you're on the rubbish heap of history next to Real Player.
Video is ten times bigger than vector animation (Score:2)
All those comics could just as easily be streamed in h264
At the cost of ten times the bandwidth.
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Yes but I'd rather spend the bandwidth, which is relatively cheap, than rely on an interpreter of often dubious quality. I mean the current version of Flash on the mac is ok but earlier versions really, really stunk. And I remember that back when Homestar Runner was newly popular Flash was pretty craptacular on Linux too, and forget putting on some even less popular platform like FreeBSD. No, been there done that can't wait for it to finally expire.
If you're stuck on 5 GB/mo (Score:2)
I'd rather spend the bandwidth, which is relatively cheap
People who can't get fiber Internet, cable Internet, or DSL where they live might disagree with you. They use a wireless (satellite or 3G) broadband service that caps users at 5 GB of transfer per month. So might web hosts that exceed their allotted bandwidth from too many people choosing the H.264 option rather than the SWF option.
than rely on an interpreter of often dubious quality.
Which is why, for example, Firefox sandboxes the dubious-quality interpreters.
back when Homestar Runner was newly popular
...dial-up was also popular.
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Considering there are OpenJDK ports for the *BSDs, I don't think so.
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The only BSD that's impressive about this is OpenBSD. NetBSD and FreeBSD had licenses from Sun for binary "real" java releases that they could later use to bootstrap OpenJDK. The work porting Java initially was awesome, but it was much easier for FreeBSD and NetBSD to move forward with OpenJDK than it was for OpenBSD or DragonFly.
Thanks to the Linuxolator, we could run old linux JDKs and use them to bootstrap the older binary builds and then go from there. Java requires Java to build (or a subset of it).
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This is why the big 3 continue to have a foothold in the desktop space. Here's a hint, if everyone started using a new platform, Adobe would port it or flash would die. Either way, I'm happy.