Microsoft Reveals More Windows 8 Details 538
Barence writes "Microsoft has released the first full details of Windows 8, with an all-or-nothing approach to touchscreen technology. All versions of Windows 8 — whether used on a touchscreen device or not — will use the operating system's new Metro interface, which was first developed for Windows Phone 7 devices. The advent of Windows 8 sees Microsoft introduce a new style of application, dubbed Metro Style apps, and its own app store. The company also claims to have boosted Windows 8 performance with fast boot/shutdown times, a new Task Manager and the option to refresh a PC with a clean install of the OS with apps and settings left intact."
I felt a great disturbance in the Force... (Score:5, Funny)
...as if millions of PC users suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
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Its Windows with out windows...
I see this as the rise of Linux on the Desktop, and the fact that Microsoft has decided the Desktop is no longer relevant.
After looking at this, it could be a serious competition to Apple iOS and Android. As they can make off the shelf Tablets and you have all your windows software ready to run on it. It could be a rebirth of Microsoft. Or it could backfire, Being that it is sacrificing its desktop share, for the tablet, where Android and iOS may have a sufficient market sha
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Actually Gnome has ALSO decided the desktop is no longer relevant. Fortunately KDE and Xfce have not yet taken leave of their senses.
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MS did not decide that the desktop is no longer relevant. Apple did. MS, is as usual, following Apple's lead. (Witness Mission Control in Lion.)
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Actually, if you've seen the previous informational releases, you can still run the standard windows UI fairly easily. It just isn't necessary.
Honestly, I like this. I'll stick with the classic UI, because I like the functionality, but I know a lot of people who would much rather have the newer, simpler UI.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... (Score:4, Informative)
sorry it'a anadtech not toms hardware...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4771/microsoft-build-windows-8-pre-beta-preview/1 [anandtech.com]
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I see this as the rise of Linux on the Desktop
This again? Ha!
the fact that Microsoft has decided the Desktop is no longer relevant.
I suggest people actually watch the keynote before running off at the mouth with uninformed comments. You can switch between the new "metro" interface and the standard desktop interface. Metro is an alternative to the desktop interface, it doesn't replace it. One is geared toward tablet like devices, the other toward desktop, but you have the choice to use either interface on either form factor. You can switch between the two seamlessly, and it appears to work surprisingly well.
I n
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... (Score:5, Interesting)
Metro is an alternative to the desktop interface, it doesn't replace it.
When the OS boots up into a crappy phone interface which only gives you the option to switch to the desktop interface, and when the desktop start menu apparently switches you back to the crappy phone interface, that's a pretty damn good sign that Microsoft are abandoning the desktop.
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Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... (Score:5, Insightful)
If Ubuntu can finish its LSD trip in time for the Windows 8 release and go back to being a solid desktop distro, this could be the best thing for desktop Linux since Vista.
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1991: Haha, Microsoft is moving to a GUI to dumb down their OS. Unix and its command line is going to destroy Windows!
2011: Haha, Microsoft is offering a touch GUI to dumb down their OS. Linux and its windows are going to destroy Windows!
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Have you seen the early reviews [thisismynext.com] for the Windows 8 tablets? The fact that there is a fan and exhaust port blows my mind. They need to be launching with tablet hardware significantly better than the iPad. The iPad specs for weight, durability, and battery life should be the minimum for what they are willing to launch with.
ONE WORD FOR WINDOWS 8: (Score:2)
WINNING!
I for one look forward to windows 9 (Score:5, Funny)
which should be the next good version, and if MS keeps to their historic release schedule, we should see sometime in 2014 to 2015. Not that long to wait really, since I'm sure Windows 7, which I find to be excellent, will tide me over while I wait.
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Please, both with this version and 9, wait until it's actually out.
They're both equally likely to be terrible.
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The problem is when your computer breaks during this interval, and the only new ones for sale come with Windows 8 pre-installed.
That happened to me with Vista.
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Even after Windows 7 went on sale it was possible to get a new PC with WindowsXP, if you couldn't figure out how, slashdot is not meant for you.
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It's even easier than that (assuming you're talking about installing the OS yourself).
I used to work at a software dev company that didn't officially support windows7 or any 64-bit version of windows really (They eventually managed to patch up their crappy software to work with win7 at least, although they still don't support 64-bit OSes last I checked). Because of this, they still recommended XP to everybody who called in asking what to purchase. Our standard response was "Call up dell, ask them to put XP
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You don't have OS install discs for your OS of choice squirreled away somewhere? I thought every slashdotter did...
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Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 (Score:4, Insightful)
That's why you build your own and keep your OS disks.
Fortunately, the guys I get my OS from keep regular backups on a public server, so I can re-download them anytime.
If your OS vendor doesn't do that, they are most likely using an external service for the same purpose. I can't remember the service's exact name, but their site has a ship with black sails on the front page.
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I find Windows 7 to be a better overall computing experience than XP, Vista, and Ubuntu 9.04 and 10.04, which were the 4 operating systems I had running across various systems at the time I tried out 7. I made 7 one of my dual boot options on my primary system not long after that, and recently I reformatted the HD as I wanted to reclaim the full space into a single partition as I found I was only booting into the other OS about once every few months.
I don't know where you got the Idea that there exists any
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Oh I can certainly drop to terminal window when I need to, and I did with ubuntu. a lot. a whole lot.
That's part of what I didn't like about ubuntu, that I had to dick around with a lot of stuff on a nitty gritty level to get it working. It reminded me sometimes of the old days manually editing config.sys to get IRQs and DMA channels playing nicely between different hardware. To be fair, Ubuntu wrapped a whole lot into gui, a far and away better experience than when I first tried slackware in 1995, but ubun
Nope! (Score:3, Insightful)
There's not a fucking chance I'm using that shitty windows phone interface.
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Your still on DOS right? Or you have been using Linux for the past few decades...
If you still use windows.
You will at some point will need to make a choice and use outdated apps or upgrade to a new OS.
If you take too long you will be the Old Man who doesn't know how to use the new stuff...
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Is there something wrong with the old man who doesn't use the new stuff? Is the new stuff actually better or merely new? Are the old apps inferior or merely old? If you think old stuff is awful then stop using them but don't bash your elders over it. And why are you using an ancient technology like slashdot anyway (I hope you're not using an archaic computer designed many months ago and are only using hip new tablets or phones to post).
Re:Nope! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Nope! (Score:5, Insightful)
But XP and Windows 7 UI still feel like a step back in some ways. I want SMALLER UI elements and they keep getting larger. The OS keeps trying to get into the foreground instead of being unnoticed in the background.
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Getting larger? Only a tiny bit. The 7 Start button is taller and the window controls are a little bigger but that's it. It's a decent response to increasing screen resolutions.
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Really? because of all the smartphone interfaces I've tried, I like the Windows phone interface best.
But my experience is limited to playing with the phones in the AT&T store and the Android phone one of my co-workers has.
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this is for the 99% of users out there who don't have hundreds of arcane applications on their computers. just the basic ones and a few games.
If you don't have a ton of arcane Windows apps that won't run in Wine, why would you want to run Windows?
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because itunes doesn't run on linux
i tried to run ubuntu but gave up. it's slow and annoying. i'll probably just get a mac next year to run ^nix
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Your mistake was buying an Apple digital audio player. Get one that supports USB mass storage mode next time.
And watch out for the cameras coming out nowadays that don't support USB mass storage mode...
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Yeah, helping others is just a waste of time.
LOL! Not what I meant exactly. I spend a significant amount of time helping others, I get much satisfaction from it.
What I meant was, life is too short to spend it swearing at viruses &etc. that I don't know how to fix. The only help I am qualified to offer now is to install Linux for them. If that's what they want.
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That's like defending your purchase of a Pinto by saying it was better than a Lada.
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Every other release (Score:2)
Seems like the Windows/Star Trek "every other release" rule is still in play. This user interface will be horrible on the business desktop for people who actually want to get real work done. I wonder how many businesses will avoid Windows 8 and wait for 9 to come out?
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9 will probably do the same thing, if not make it harder to run the Windows 7 Desktop.
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and probably find a way to automatically run that on login.
Which will be done the same way it is now, by changing a registry key. from metro.exe back to explorer.exe
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most business users have a few apps. MS office and a few corporate apps. business users are also the first ones to whine about desktop icons and shortcuts. this is a pretty good solution.
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My employer hasn't even moved to Window 7 yet.
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Considering that many businesses are still on XP, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see a lot of them hold on to XP until 9 comes out.
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Seeing as I'm not at the keynote, I have to go by the article. The article says "I used it. it's horrible." I have nothing other to gauge an opinion on at this time. Perhaps the author was using an earlier release than what's currently onstage.
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I'm at the keynote watching him demonstrate it RIGHT NOW. It works wonderfully.
Educate yourself. /accused of being a microsoft shill in 3... 2... 1... //ah, predictable.
Given that you're reading Slashdot while at the keynote, I have a hard time believing you're paying enough attention to notice any delays, glitches, or other annoyances that might occur during the presentation.
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i hope (Score:2)
that there is a button to completely turn off metro and switch back to win2k-style menus (yes, i am doing that usually).
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"When you click on the Windows Desktop tile, you’re thrown back into the familiar Windows 7 desktop, with the Taskbar running along the bottom and the not-so-touch-friendly desktop icons of old."
Obviously I can't speak for 2000 Start Menus, but I can't see it being impossible.
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There is a button to go to the desktop, but I doubt they will let you turn off the Metro UI completely. Microsoft is essentially using windows 8 to force their way into the mobile market. If every user is suddenly familiar with the windows phone UI, and all of their applications suddenly work seamlessly with their desktop and the windows phone OS, then maybe that windows phone starts to look that much better.
It is actually a rather brilliant move (not that I endorse it in any way) by Microsoft to leverage
Dear Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
My Desktop PC is NOT a smartphone with a 22 inch screen
Please dont treat it like one
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Yes it is. Or at least it will be soon, whether you like it or not. Microsoft, Apple, Ubuntu and Gnome all say so.
You'll just have to hope that KDE don't give in to this trend of phone/tablet interfaces on PCs.
Translation (Score:3, Insightful)
Quote from link: "Every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead."
Response: Like everything developed by every company that wants to have mass market sales, it's humorous to NOT hear "It's what we've noticed as something very popular with other types of [technology] that eats up peoples' time and develops even further interest in buying. Mystery and slow revelation with additional hidden secrets is the key to fast up-front sales. We'll jump on the bandwagon, but it's something completely different from the norm! Buy it and you'll find out how!"
Honesty is too painful to just throw out there, I guess. :)
Not troll material or flamebait at all - It's just something I see constantly and I find it humorous. I may love Windows 8, I may hate it. Don't know until I use it.
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Yeah, because fingerprints all over my desktop screen full time is what I want/need.
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I use my tongue. Makes me feel tingly.
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If I may add, I do believe that a monitor with touch is just as dead as a monitor without touch. Correct me if I'm wrong. :>
You just aren't touching it right :).
Ubuntu support, please start gearing up (Score:2)
This version can actually mean the year of Linux on the desktop.
If Windows XP had not lasted so long, or 7 had not come so soon, Ubuntu would have a non insignificant marketshare as of now
Having the same interface from 4 inch to 40 inch screens --- I really dont see how they can make something that scales SO well, will wait and watch, but I have serious doubts regarding the success
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p>Having the same interface from 4 inch to 40 inch screens --- I really dont see how they can make something that scales SO well, will wait and watch, but I have serious doubts regarding the success
Isn't this what Ubuntu was trying to achieve with Unity and Gnome with Gnome Shell? The smartphone/tablet market is the one that's growing right now, so everyone's chasing those dollars.
(Incidentally, I happen to like Gnome Shell and it seems to work well with large desktops and multiple monitors, so it seems like the goal is achievable.)
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Using 10.04, never tried those.
Perhaps I should give them a try
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If Windows XP had not lasted so long
Windows XP lasted (past tense may not be accurate, but oh well) as long as they needed it to. It's not like XP suddenly will 'stop working' no matter what MS wants. So a hypothetical MS OS flop just means they fix it for 9 and the world largely pretends 8 doesn't exist and MS will roll with that so long as it prevents other desktop OSes.
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By lasted I meant security patches and driver support.
Even 1-2 year old laptops seem to have Windows XP driver support.
Though I agree that its more of a decision on the Laptop manufacturer than Microsoft, but the market support is there.
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Sigh, still with this shit?
Vista didn't fuck up bad enough to make it 'The Year of the Linux Desktop', nothing is going to.
Until Linux gets some polish it will continue to be nothing but a sock puppet for political fanatics like Stallman and self serving 'developers' who can't be bothered with finishing features they start.
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No. Linux will never make inroads due to the immense legacy of software that requires Windows to run. Microsoft achieved their goal of a desktop that is completely unable to escape it.
You, however, are just a hateful shit.
FUD in the article (Score:2)
Metro is the default UI, but you can switch back to Aero Glass/Aero/Classic by tapping the Windows key on your keyboard. Metro isn't mandatory or forced on you on the desktop.
Re:FUD in the article (Score:5, Insightful)
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Every time I see "Metro", I see "Metrosexual" as in Windows Metrosexual. Oh well, off to the land of OS X - frak Messysoft.
Slow Follower (Score:2)
Every System Needs a Touchscreen? (Score:2)
Microsoft insists that the touch-oriented interface is suitable for any device, regardless of whether it has a touchscreen or not. "We envision an OS that scales from small form-factor, keyboardless tablets, all the way up to servers," said Windows president Steven Sinofsky, at a special press preview of the new operating system.
What's more, the company believes that every device should have a touchcreen. "The UI is the same UI, whether you use a mouse, keyboard or touch," said Jensen Harris, director of program management for the Windows Experience. "Every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead."
I, for one, don't want a server with this "Metro" interface and a touchscreen. I look forward to Windows 9, once Windows 8 is out of beta.
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'User Interface Designers' are clueless about what users actually want; news at eleven.
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I'm not above a little Microsoft bashing but you should at least do some basic research before you start trolling about haveing to use the GUI
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This "Metro" Interface reminds me of the old IBM PS/1 machines back in the early 1990s. It had four huge buttons that you clicked on, usually you clicked the one that booted to DOS and went from there. This interface was a flop.
Will MS screw up with this UI. Iffish, and time will tell. MS has been decent with new UIs, especially Windows 95 which pretty much set the standard for what people expect on a machine. Before that, it was clicking on a program manager, NeXT dock, or having your applications in
Not THAT bad (Score:2)
I'm sure it will be able to be configured to go straight into Explorer, and that's what everybody who runs 8 on a desktop will do.
I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. (Score:2, Insightful)
Let me get this straight.
I only looked at the first link but the first thing that jumped out at me was:
The advent of Windows 8 sees Microsoft introduce a new style of application, dubbed Metro Style apps, and its own app Store. The Metro Style apps are run in full-screen mode, with no Windows taskbar or other menu items getting in the way.
"Every single pixel of your beautiful screen is for your app," said Harris. "You're just immersed in the content."
Ok, so there's two big things here. An App Store [apple.com] and a way to run applications in some sort of full-screen interface [apple.com].
Hmm. I wonder where I've heard these ideas before.
Another $99 per year certificate (Score:2)
Microsoft will sell both the new Metro apps and conventional desktop software via its own App Store. Indeed, that will be the only way you can get hold of Metro Style apps.
Given what Microsoft already requires for Xbox Live Indie Games and Windows Phone 7, it'll probably be yet another $99 per year certificate for a developer to renew each year.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. (Score:4, Insightful)
You heard of the app store first probably with some Linux distribution in the 1990s. You heard of full screen mode before you ever heard of any alternative, with nearly every post-dumbterm but pre-windowed platform (e.g. MS-DOS, C64, etc) since fullscreen was all they had.
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You miss his point entirely - his point was not that Apple invented those concepts by any stretch of the imagination (hell, Classic and OS X were about as *far* from fullscreen as you could be in an OS), but that they released a new version of OS X very recently with those two features as key selling points.
Very coincidental, I think?
Either way it's a bit of a no brainer - it's Apple's attempt to streamline desktop computing to make it easy enough for anyone to use and there are a lot more users who want th
And more important (Score:4, Insightful)
Why the fuck would we want that on a desktop? Part of what makes a desktop system so useful is having multiple things open that you can switch between, position around, and so on. Right now I have my browser up on top of my primary window, but my e-mail client hiding behind it. I can see when new mail comes in. On my secondary monitor is the interface for our digital security system so I can watch over the cameras. There are a few other things loaded and running, but the windows are occluded at the moment. I don't want to be "immersed" in any of this shit. The ability to have multiple things going is why I like my desktop, it's why I have 4 cores, 8GB of memory and north of 4 million pixels of total display.
I do not get this obsession with trying to make computers work like phones. No, bad idea. When I heard of what they were doing with Lion I said "What a horrible idea." Now MS is doing the same? What the fuck? How about you give me a phone interface on a phone and a computer interface on a computer?
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I do not get this obsession with trying to make computers work like phones. No, bad idea. When I heard of what they were doing with Lion I said "What a horrible idea." Now MS is doing the same? What the fuck?
Must confess I'm using Lion myself and I'm not particularly convinced. Fullscreen works well when the app designer has thought about how their application will function in fullscreen. (Safari is OK, NeoOffice in its infinite wisdom thinks that when I say fullscreen, I mean "so full I can't easily change any formatting without switching out of fullscreen mode"). There's a number of other glitches that I won't go into or we'll be here all evening.
In terms of MS doing the same, that's easily explained. The one
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It's very simple - not everyone (in fact, I'd imagine that the vast majority of computer users) are like us, which is why the "Full Screen Richness" is optional. On Lion a full screen app doesn't have to be run that way.
They have some tweaking to do (scrollbars really need their arrows back), but they have added an interface that makes the computer easier to use for dedicated tasks, and a way to easily get to them and swap between them.
You're not forced to use it that way, but the option is there because no
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Apple didn't come up with the idea of a centralized repository of software to choose from with a single market browser application. They just came up with the idea of charging money for it.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. (Score:5, Insightful)
As I said [slashdot.org] when OS X Lion was released, I think this push towards full-screen apps is a move backwards. Yes, having the app fill the screen makes a lot of sense for smartphones and tablets, where screen/interface space is limited and you're typically focusing on a single task at a time. But on a desktop?
The whole point of a multi-purpose desktop computer is to be able to do a myriad of things, and more importantly to combine all the various resources/applications together in powerful ways. I want to be able to have a web-page reference document open while I code something, or copy-and-paste something from a spreadsheet into a text document. I want to be able to cross-compare multiple graphs/images/whatever at the same time. To do all this, I need to be able to tile, stack, and move windows on my screen. Endless alt-tabbing just doesn't cut it.
With desktop monitors getting bigger and bigger, fullscreen apps just don't make sense. Even maximized apps don't make sense: your mouse has to travel ridiculously far to get from content to controls if you make your app fullscreen on a 30-inch monitor. (There are of course times when you want a single app fullscreen; e.g. photo editing on a large monitor gives you a much better view of the content.) One of the main advantages of modern large monitors is the ability to have multiple apps open at once, without them blocking each other or being ridiculously constrained. Why are we throwing away these advantages?
I'm fully aware of the cognitive science research on multi-tasking (specifically, that people are bad at it and that focusing on a single task for a longer period of time has big advantages). What I'm questioning is whether any non-trivial task can really be accomplished using a single application. We should be optimizing our user interfaces to maximize the efficiency and focus on tasks and workflows: not boxing ourselves into stripped-down full-screen apps.
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I agree that for some desktop applications (like web browsing) it's useless. However for some other applications like content creation (movie or photo editing) or consuming (video playback, video chat with presentations) it is nicer to have a full screen available as in your random video game so you're not distracted by your e-mail counter or other random things that happen.
As you said, multitasking is hard and it's sometimes nicer to even work on a document or e-mail and simply have some type of solid, dar
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I want to be able to have a web-page reference document open while I code something, or copy-and-paste something from a spreadsheet into a text document. I want to be able to cross-compare multiple graphs/images/whatever at the same time. To do all this, I need to be able to tile, stack, and move windows on my screen. Endless alt-tabbing just doesn't cut it.
Note that Win8, unlike iOS or Android, actually lets you run Metro apps side by side. You do it by using the swipe-from-left-edge gesture, but instead of releasing the finger, you keep it down and drag the app thumbnail onto the edge.
It's somewhat limited in that you can only handle two of them that way, and you always have one smaller window docked alongside one bigger one. On the other hand, the apps are expected to be aware of this mode, and adapt their UI to the situation when they're docked as "small w
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Why does it have to be either or? People get so worried that everything is changing. It has been one way for ages and now there are other ways. I agree that it is cool, useful and necessary to have your apps all on screen and available, but there are definitely times when it is nice to have the option to work full screen - video editing, for example - something where you are engrossed in one thing and you don't want or need to see the clutter of the desktop and the other windows.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. (Score:5, Informative)
I think this push towards full-screen apps is a move backwards.
Only for us who know better. Unfortunately, we are not the target market, anymore. All I see all day at work is people swishing their middle fingers around on their smartphones, and they seem to love all this stuff.
From Firefox to Unity to Aero to Chrome to Ribbon to iAnything, everything released within the last 6 years has driven me nuts. I'm really trying to give this stuff a chance, but I just hate everything I come across. It was the obscure error messages and badly designed menus that confused people, not the taskbars, status bars, and maximize gadgets.
What really frightens me is that the Linux community is heading in this direction, too. WTF?
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I've also noticed a little, infrequent bug where sometimes the taskbar button for a loaded app vanishes, usually Firefox for some reason. There's always the "Alt-Tab" combo, but honestly it just doesn't really appeal to me as a primary
The most important new feature (Score:2)
Reboot faster! (Score:4, Funny)
Just think about it... Microsoft has probably made the biggest improvement to their software in two decades... You can now reboot far faster than ever before! Just think about the time saved per week for your average Windows user!
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Looking good for such early code... (Score:2)
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From what I've read on that page, only HTML+CSS+Javascript apps will be compatible with both x86 and ARM.
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From what I've read on that page, only HTML+CSS+Javascript apps will be compatible with both x86 and ARM.
Isn't this what we used to call 'a web page'?
Windows 8 Metro (Score:4, Funny)
Can we refer to Windows 8 users as Metrosexuals?
Re:Windows 8 Metro (Score:5, Funny)
Can we refer to Windows 8 users as Metrosexuals?
Well with all that prodding and touching and caressing of the screens they certainly are some kind of "sexuals"
Interesting (Score:2)
Did big touch screens suddenly become cheap when I wasn't looking or is this just a way to push tech for monitor manufacturers seeing as 3d TV isn't working sales as well as they thought ?
Small question (Score:3)
They say we'll be able to make "Metro" applications with HTML, CSS and Javascript. Does that mean we won't even need Windows to make Windows Apps?
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Well, the real issue with this is that, in my experience, the apps and settings are the problem, not Windows itself (depending upon whether you consider the registry to be part of the OS or the user settings). I've found that often times nuking the user profile (which is the most obnoxious part to lose) is what solves the problem, not that Windows binaries are corrupted.
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they've included the option to reimage your Windows install as a basic OS feature.
Except thats not what they are giving you. They're giving you the same thing you've always had, install over the top of an existing install.
option to refresh a PC with a clean install of the OS with apps and setting left intact.
Considering that 99 times out of a 100, its the settings that broke the install in the first place, recopying new files over isn't all that useful.
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From the article:
The full-screen Metro Style apps are likely to be web apps; the kind you would typically expect to find on a tablet. Things such as Twitter clients, video players and news readers, rather than full-blown desktop software such as Office or Photoshop.
Although they can be coded in conventional programming languages such as C and C++, they can also be created using standard web technologies such as HTML, CSS and JavaScript (but not, rather controversially, Microsoft’s own Silverlight). An
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Many people simply don't believe MS is able to deliver. Trotting out a prototype/development tablet with a fan doesn't inspire a lot of hope. Are they really that far behind that they're still not running on their target CPU architecture, yet?