Australia's National Broadband Network Officially Open For Business 161
sydneyhype writes "The Australian National Broadband Network is open for business. The 14,000 residents on the first roll-out will be able to order an NBN service (current ISP contract permitting). Internode, Exetel, and iiNet have released their commercial pricing. iiNet has undercut Internode with prices starting at $49.95 per month for 12Mbps down and 1Mbps up with 20gb on-peak and 20gb off-peak."
Asia in general costs a lot (Score:1)
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> It's only like Japan where you can get fast connections cheaply.
They have it pretty good in South Korea too. The OECD had them pegged as spending about 1/3 less on the average broadband bill than the United States.
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Hmm Australia moved to Asia... Interesting!
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Hmm Australia moved to Asia... Interesting!
Haven't looked at a map recently have you.
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Err, Australia is about as much in Asia as the Eastern US is in Europe.
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Err, Australia is about as much in Asia as the Eastern US is in Europe.
Err. you really haven't had a look at a map recently. The continent of Australia is geographically located where?
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Err. you really haven't had a look at a map recently. The continent of Australia is geographically located where?
Australia is technically not in Asia... Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] although not the best source agrees. Australasia is the region you're looking at that includes PNG, NZ and Australia.
You can obviously see the confusion, though. I don't know how long the separation between Asia and Australasia has existed but it has been for at least as long as I can remember (but I'm young).
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You can obviously see the confusion, though. I don't know how long the separation between Asia and Australasia has existed
It helps if you understand that "Australasia" means "South of Asia". (Australia means Southern Land. (And Austria means Eastern land, just to confuse things.))
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The continent of Australia is geographically located where?
You said it yourself, the continent of Australia, which is about as far from Asia as the Eastern US is from Europe.
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Why bother with the "eur" bit of "eurasia"? europe's just the arse end of asia anyway.
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Why bother with the "eur" in "eurasia"? Europe's just the arse end of Asia anyway.
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I have looked at a map. Australia is in Oceania.
Australia has always been in Oceania.
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We've always been at war with Oceania.
;p
All the more amusing because I'm in a WoW guild called Oceania.
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Indeed, Australia is closer to Papua New Guinea, East Timor and Indonesia then it's closest Australasian nation, New Zealand if we want to get nit-picky.
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Flemington is in Africa.
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And everyone always forgets Antarctica!
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Yeah, but what do they charge for going over the cap? 40gb total per month is not that much, especially when you consider that it's split between peak and non-peak.
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They don't charge you extra, they just throttle your speed down. This is what they do now on xDSL and cable connections, and so it will be on the NBN as well.
Having said that, if you are hitting your cap regularly, just pay a few bucks extra and upgrade to the next highest plan. All the big ISPs are offering plans up to 1000 GB (1 TB) per month, which is enough for almost any conceivable domestic (non-business) need. At the moment I'm only on a 30 GB plan because that's all I use. The next plan up only cost
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Still sucks. The price is high, the caps are low, the speed is low.
I'm paying 39.90€ a month for 24/1 unlimited. Practically get about 1.8M/s down and 90k/s up.
and that is considered slightly on the expensive side.
40Gb cap i would blow through really fast, then again i'm a business owner.
Re:Asia in general costs a lot (Score:4, Informative)
Internet costs more in Australia due to distance from the rest of the English-speaking world (i.e. where 95% of internet hosts we want to access are located), huge area and small population. We will never be able to compete with Europe on price. Also you're picking the entry-level 12/1 40 GB plan for home users (which includes a home phone service with untimed national calls BTW, not just internet) to compare with ... and it only costs only a few euro more than what you pay (59 AUD = ~42 EUR). That ain't bad, considering what prices and speeds are like now. Besides, if it ain't fast enough, up to 100/40 Mbit is available to everyone, and gigabit for business plans.
The relevant comparison is between what Australians can get now (generally ADSL2+ on which for most people get 10 Mbit unless they live close to the exchange), and what we can get on the NBN (same cost - much faster). Not between what you can get in Australia vs. what you can get in densely populated Europe. It's a pointless comparison - EVERYTHING costs more here (but wages are very high too - it all balances out in the end).
It's also likely unlimited plans will be offered by some ISPs on this network too. You have to remember - all you are seeing now is the first batch of pricing released from the first batch of ISPs. Once more get on board and the rollout gathers pace, prices will decline, just as they have been for the ADSL2+ offerings over the last decade. ISPs like TPG already offer unlimited ADSL2+ for $29/month, so I foresee them offering a similar thing on NBN eventually too. It's still early days.
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I'd like to point out that ADSL2+ isn't available on all exchanges for all ISPs.
We currently have ADSL(1) with 8/1 and a 30Gb peak/40Gb off peak plan that we really like, but our ISP doesn't have ADSL2+ available at our exchange. I keep checking periodically, and unless I wanted to change to Telstra (no thanks) it's not an option.
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Ah yes very true.
Though don't feel too bad. I technically have ADSL2+ but because my line is rather long, I get under 6 Mbit (i.e. well short of even the top ADSL1 speed) anyway.
The way I see it, NBN is at worst, the same price for more speed (for someone already on a good ADSL2+ line). And at best (people stuck in Telstra monopoly areas/on long lines/on ADSL1 only), it's cheaper AND more speed. It's a win for almost everyone.
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The low end prices don't tell much of the story with the NBN.
If that's the low-end, it is telling. I can get those kinds of prices here from our greedy dualopolies, without caps (USD ~= AUD these days), and that's the undercutting provider.
I hear all the prices in Australia have gone through the roof in the last decade - perhaps it's relative?
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Dual US/Aussie citizen here who splits their time between both countries. Australia IS more expensive than the US for almost everything (except, interestingly, cellphones and cellphone plans - Australia kicks the US' ass on this front in terms of selection and price). But clothes, cars, food, rent and housing, entertainment ... everything else is considerably more expensive in Australia (1.5x for food and electronics, about 2x for everything else)
Including the Internet. It's one of the curses of being a 'te
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It doesn't matter though. Prices here are higher but wages are higher. I find it balances out about the same in the end ... I don't feel like I have less disposable income in Australia than I do in the US. Plus you make savings in other areas (healthcare is free or very cheap etc.)
This is the thing people forget when they just compare prices to cheaper countries. It's the same in Europe too. Products prices are higher, as are all costs and wages. This means it costs more to companies too, so they have to charge more in the prices too. Also, In Europe we have stuff like warranties in products that also take the price higher.
The good thing is that both Australians and Europeans win on this when they go travel to US or the cheaper Asian countries. Hell, in some Asian countries you can
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Remember we're not talking $US, rather $AUS - and despite the exchange rate between the two, the difference matters where you earn it. Earnings in .au are a whole load higher than the US - US average wage is about the same as our minimum wage.
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Australia's minimum wage is AU$15.51 [fairwork.gov.au]
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I'll let you chew on your own foot for a while, before you pull it out of your mouth..
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Lol - Australia is pretty close to that, actually. Mid-$15/hour range is minimum wage (and that doesn't include 9% compulsory retirement savings that gets paid into a fund on your behalf by the employer - if you include that it's $17/hour!)
First post!!! (Score:2)
Well, it would have been. I don't have this new NBN thingy yet...
We finally got the internet! (Score:1)
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Even with the internet, I bet they still can't bowl or catch.
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I'd say. IMO, the stereotypical Aussie accent is actually closer to a South African accent. And that's the stereotypical one, not the one you actually get if you go there.
(Disclaimer: I'm from Australia's fifth state - or at least it will be at the rate our government is going).
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I count 6 plus assorted territories now. Don't they teach you math or geography in New Zealand[1]?
[1] Point of trivia, New Zealand was supposed to come on board as a state when Australia federated, but backed out at the last minute. Looks like they've been second guessing that decision ever since.
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Six? There's Queensland, New South Wales, Tasmania, Western Australia, South Australia, um... I forgot the state Canberra hangs out in didn't I?
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You missed Victoria, but ACT sits in NSW. There's also NT and an assortment of island territories.
iinet and internode (Score:3)
iiNet has undercut Internode with prices starting at $49.95 per month for 12Mbps down and 1Mbps up with 20gb on-peak and 20gb off-peak."
When comparing iinet to Internode, one has to remember that Internode doesn't do this on peak/off peak thingy. On peak is the download limit you have between 8 AM and 12 Midnight, off peak is the download limit between 12 Midnight and 8 AM. With Internode you get 40 GB whatever time of the day it is.
However, having been a happy customer of both iinet's and Internode's ADSL offerings, both are great ISP's you wont be unhappy with. I'm waiting for Telstra and Optus to release their NBN pricing, that should be hillarious.
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iiNet has undercut Internode with prices starting at $49.95 per month for 12Mbps down and 1Mbps up with 20gb on-peak and 20gb off-peak."
When comparing iinet to Internode,
Of interest is that this story linked is out of date. Pricing for both has changed since the 19th.
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With Internode you get 40 GB whatever time of the day it is.
That's potentially not even one full-sized PlayStation 3 game. PS3 games come on Blu-ray Disc, and dual-layer discs can be up to 50 GB.
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With Internode you get 40 GB whatever time of the day it is.
That's potentially not even one full-sized PlayStation 3 game. PS3 games come on Blu-ray Disc, and dual-layer discs can be up to 50 GB.
Because everyone is using the internet for piracy.
You also seem to have failed to understand the concept of an "example" and have taken everything a little too literally. There are differing download cap volumes, around 40 GB is starting territory for iinet and Internode.
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PlayStation Store (Score:2)
That's potentially not even one full-sized PlayStation 3 game. PS3 games come on Blu-ray Disc, and dual-layer discs can be up to 50 GB.
Because everyone is using the internet for piracy.
How exactly is it piracy to buy a video game on PlayStation Store?
But I agree that 40 GB should probably be enough for entry-level users who don't rent movies online (does Australia even have a counterpart to Netflix?) and don't subscribe to the "discs are going away in the next console generation" philosophy.
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Australia has movies you can rent or buy via iTunes - can't recall if they have TV shows too.
Good value! (Score:2)
Good value! With Internode, on copper ADSL2+ (24 down, 1.5 up), 150GB monthly quota, all for... $50!
I'll let the early adopters adopt this one. (on the other hand, those poor sods that hadn't heard that you didn't need to use Telstra would probably consider this a good deal).
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The basic plan isn't very compelling, but for $65/month you get 200GB (100/100) and 25mbit/5mbit. That's definitely better than ADSL, for only $15 more.
Re:Good value! (Score:5, Interesting)
The basic plan isn't very compelling, but for $65/month you get 200GB (100/100) and 25mbit/5mbit. That's definitely better than ADSL, for only $15 more.
Meanwhile in Europe im getting 25mbit/5mbit for $15, no caps.
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Where in Europe? Even in the Netherlands you can't get a connection for that price.
Re:Good value! (Score:4, Interesting)
In Germany we're getting 100Mbit down 6mbit up and truly unlimited bandwidth on fibre for 20 Euro a month. That's a normal residential connection with Kabel Deutschland.
The NBN is an improvement but Australia is still a rip-off for internet connections.
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Considering Germany's population density for the entire country is almost 25% of an Australian capital city, it's hardly a rip-off.
Australia has more kilometres of roads than Germany, yet 1/4 the population. Would it shock you that German autobahns are superior to Australian freeways? Is it a government rip-off?
Providing network infrastructure, just as providing roads, is all about population density. Would it shock you that 5 people in my house get 1000Mbit for free, or would it just seem parochial?
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1000mb or not you might need to grow a thicker skin if you want to post on discussion boards. I am an Aussie, I was just pointing out that even with the NBN we still pay a lot for what we get.
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You Aussies complain too much. The prices for fibre on New Zealand's FTTH network are ... actually not too bad. Holy shit. ($37.50/mo wholesale for 30Mb/s downstream, 10Mb/s upstream - but that includes zero data, which we'll probably get raped on).
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Where in Europe? Even in the Netherlands you can't get a connection for that price.
Poland. http://www.aster.pl/internet [aster.pl] :)
I pay 100zl for TV + internet. TV is 50zl, internet another 50zl
$1 = 3.3 zl
internet = $15
Granted its "only" 20/2 and not 25/5 like in the post above me, but still
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Meanwhile in Australia we're getting much better value than the parent said too. I just don't think he's been shopping around. Not $15 though.
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The basic plan isn't very compelling, but for $65/month you get 200GB (100/100) and 25mbit/5mbit. That's definitely better than ADSL, for only $15 more.
Really? TPG does a $49/month and you get 500GB (250/250) and 25mbit/5mbit. Or better still you dump Telstra for your landline and bundle the phone with them and you get $59/month unlimited 25mbit/5mbit and no extra cost monthly line rental to a third party.
I don't see anything even remotely compelling about the pricing which has been announced by any party so far.
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Plus $30 line rental? For the $80 you'd get the 25/5, double the quota and node phone. Not to mention a more reliable connection with lower latency.
That is good value if you ask me!
Not to mention you are in the .1% of the population that actually gets those speeds on ADSL...
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Hell yes. You pay $59.95 with Internode now for only 30 GB plus home phone service, all on a rusty old copper phone line that (for me) syncs at 6 Mbps on a good day. For the same price on the NBN I could have 4 times the speed, much better reliability and a higher download quota.
Sure if you are one of the 0.1% of the population who live close enough to the exchange to get 24 Mbit out of ADSL2+, it's not so compelling. But the majority of people are on long and unreliable lines. Or even worse, RIMs or pair g
come on down, the price is right! (Score:2)
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Overage costs are rare in Australia. Typically your connection speed will be shaped to anywhere from 64k-512k depending on your ISP and plan.
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but the cap is 40gigs [20gb on-peak and 20gb off-peak]? at those speeds you could use up your whole allotment in like 2 days, and I hate to see what the overages costs.
That's the starting cap, iinet and internode have plans that go up to 1 TB limits.
Also, no overage charges, they shape your speed down to 128 or 256 Kb/s if you go over.
BTW, 2 days is a bit rich, there's a big difference between theoretical speeds and real world speeds. Besides this, there are larger caps available so you if you dont download 400 GB a month, you dont have to pay for that much.
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but the cap is 40gigs [20gb on-peak and 20gb off-peak]? at those speeds you could use up your whole allotment in like 2 days, and I hate to see what the overages costs.
That's the starting cap, iinet and internode have plans that go up to 1 TB limits.
Also, no overage charges, they shape your speed down to 128 or 256 Kb/s if you go over./quote>
1 why cap at all?
2 shaping to 256kbit? you realize we got FREE HSPA+/LTE 256kbit internet in Europe (Poland)?
So? (Score:1)
This is newsworthy how? Does an ISP rollout in California, which has ******************DOUBLE******************* the population, get a /. post?
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What is the realistic probability that a new ISP will roll out any type of broadband in California now, that isn't simply reselling the medium of one of the incumbents? That's right: zero.
Guess what? Even if we got the full Free Press et al version of so-called network neutrality, it STILL wouldn't change that state of affairs, because a few giant corps own all the wires. IIRC one of the differences with this new Aussie broadband plan is that it includes public buyback of the physical medium... so in Aus
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This is newsworthy how? Does an ISP rollout in California, which has ******************DOUBLE******************* the population, get a /. post?
First off, NBNco is not an ISP, it's a wholesale provider.
/. post.
Secondly when the state of California rolls out a fibre network that creates a competitive environment for multiple ISP's to provide high speed internet state wide
Thirdly, when the state of California becomes as geographically large as the continental US and only then, do you get a
But seeing as the state of California is in worse debt then the rest of the US and US telco's would rather fight like feudal lords over local monopolies a
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It's the start of the $36 billion national network of fibre to the home with speeds of 100Mb/s on rollout and gigabit coming shortly.
The summary may have neglected that.
Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a $40 billion+ project to rip out the 100-year old existing copper POTS network and replace it with a new, independently operated layer 2 FTTH network (upon which dozens of competing ISPs will be able to offer layer 3 services to the end user). Nationwide - from the large cities to small towns in the middle of nowhere (every town with >1000 people will get fibre, smaller hamlets will get some form of 4G or WiMax fixed wireless). There will then be dozens of ISPs operating layer 3 services on this network to the end user.
That is much more significant than a new ISP.
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We've been waiting for fifteen years and now it's starting. That makes it news.
I want it NOW! (Score:4, Interesting)
I so want the NBN service now. At the next election, there is likely to be a change of government and the current opposition claim that they will cut back the scope of the NBN project (like only provide wifi and/or fibre to the neighbourhood instead of providing fibre to the home).
I want the NBN to do my town before the next election (we are on the list, but it could take years for them to get to us).
So vote with your... vote. (Score:2)
Nothing is "likely" about Abbott and his Luddites winning the next election, a lot can change in the next 2 years. By then, the NBN and the Carbon Price will either be huge positives or huge negatives, in real terms, rather than the current fear of the unknown that we Aussies tend to wallow in in the political sphere. That's why the Climate Change deniers and Luddites have tried to delay them.
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Yes, clearly that will lead to a better country for all of us and not the immediate migration of that money to China as iWhatever purchases.
Re:I want it NOW! (Score:4, Informative)
Firstly, it's 'only' around $29-30 billion now (the 40+ billion figure was the budget BEFORE the Telstra conduit-sharing deal was struck).
Secondly, $40 billion over the 12 or 13 years the rollout will take really isn't much. Compare it to what we spend over that time period on other infrastructure like roads, schools, hospitals etc. You make it sound like it's a $40B bill that's all due in one hit up front or something. Plus it'll form the 'guts' of the telecommunications network in this country for the next century. I really don't think the cost is outrageous when you consider that ... what do you think the original copper POTS network cost to roll out?
The sockpupets are out today (Score:2)
The NBN is a highly political topic in Australia. The opposition leader blames it for loosing him the last election (probably right too). He hates it with a passion. He appointed Malcolm Turnbull to "destroy the NBN". A job he has been working on ever since. There have been many lies and much FUD spread by them and their sock puppets (particularly their propaganda wing, "The Australian")
This is a fairly typical example:
As a taxpayer and citizen of Australia I want the $40 billion dollar waste of money (and way to appease country based members of parliament) shutdown and the money handed back to taxpayers.
If this person actually had a clue, they would know that the NBN is "off budget". I
20 gigs? (Score:4, Interesting)
20 gigs? For that price? You gotta be kidding me - I get 20 gigs easily in a week just from work (yeah, when you can mount a .iso from your computer to install in vmware and the speed is about equal to actually first upload the image to storage server you get lazy...) and those speeds - it is now 2011, not 2000 when 12/1 Mbps was hot.
Here 100/10, 19,90 euros / month. No caps. Gasoline however costs a crapton and half a year it is freezing and dark but at least connectivity is good and cheap.
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It's ~AU$80 for the 100/10 plan. They just listed the slowest and most limited plan in the article for some reason. And paying about 3 times more for things is unfortunately common in Australia.
$20 a kilo for bannanas anyone?
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But you get free drop bears!
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In fact where I live - Finland - our density of population is quite similar to Australia - huge country with people concentrated on a few citites "en masse" and running the network to the non-dense areas is easy and not *that* expensive - if the local land owners don't object to fiber being laid down beside the road, but then you can see who to blame, been there, done that - NIMBY works there too, if everybody agrees fiber is quite easy and even cheap to install. Yeah, cities produce the best revenue per km
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According to Wikipedia the urbanization rate in Australia is 89%.(Finland 85%) So basic land-mass comparison is not giving the right numbers...
And yes - compared to Australia Finland is not huge, but it has ver similar rural areas ans same kinds of problems with high bandwith providing.
TP in AU? (Score:2)
So my "move to Canada" fund needs to be adjusted to "move to Australia". Do they have trailer parks in Australia?
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I'll just have to find a home for my transmaro.
prices will rise (Score:2)
the pattern is usually a low starting price to lock you in and then the price floats up at the end of the contract period, either 6 months or a year later. NBN promises a roughly equal service to most people in Oz, some of us won't see much speed difference, others will. The downside is that rural customers will only get the service they have now, that is, poor ADSL, or 3G wireless, sat doesn't really count as it's usually subsidised and services so few few people. NBN isn't planning on going into towns sma
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the pattern is usually a low starting price to lock you in and then the price floats up at the end of the contract period, either 6 months or a year later. NBN promises a roughly equal service to most people in Oz, some of us won't see much speed difference, others will. The downside is that rural customers will only get the service they have now, that is, poor ADSL, or 3G wireless, sat doesn't really count as it's usually subsidised and services so few few people. NBN isn't planning on going into towns smaller than 1000 people.
You are the second person in this thread to try and claim that rural people won't see any benefit. The NBN is to provide AT LEAST 12/1 speeds to 100% of the country (at the same (wholesale) price for all). Those in towns of less than 1,000 may not get fibre, but they will get high speed fixed wireless or satellite. Those who are on the dodgy ADSL / 3G will definitely see a benefit, possibly by an order of magnitude.
As the average Australian download speed is ~8.5Mb/sec down and 1.28Mb/sec up (according t
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Bring on the NBN.
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Looking at the iiNet site you can get 100GB+100GB at 12mbps on the NBN for $60 per month. If you compare that to naked ADSL, you would have to pay $70 for the cheapest plan and you only get half as much quota plus "ADSL2+ speeds" instead of 12mbps (and unlike ADSL2+, the NBN speeds dont drop off as you get further from the exchange)
If you are in a location without an iiNet DSLAM and need to use Telstra DSLAMS (including all those people stuck on "pair gain") the value of NBN vs ADSL is even better.
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Indeed. It's properly called footy over in Aussie is it not?
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I thought it was referred to as League or Union. Aussie Rules is referred to as footy. At least down here 'south of the border'.
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No idea really. Here in NZ we just call it "sports" with everything else being "fake sports". Or at least that's the impression you'd get.
Re:I know where I will be for awhile... (Score:4, Informative)
The list of small towns which are being FTTH'd is pretty impressive though. There are places on there with populations as low as 800.
That said, the NBN outback and deep rural strategy isn't focused on exchanges and ADSL technology - it's focussed on wireless for rural and satellite for really remote places. They've a pretty good track record so far with sensible deployment decisions, and a point-to-point wireless technology in uncrowded spectrum would probably work out.
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Sorry, what are you talking about??
The N in NBN is for NATIONAL. The plan is for 93% fibre, 4% wireless 3% satellite with at least 12/1 speeds available on all mediums. The fibre is to go down to towns of 1,000 premises, sometimes smaller if the fibre is going through town anyway. Those on wireless will basically be those currently on the outer edges of ADSL or beyond. Those on satellite will be truly rural.
The NBN are planning plenty of backhaul to their POIs. Congestion isn't going to be an issue wi
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When was a copper-only POTS network ever redundant?
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Also cheaper to maintain. It's marginal but it changes the maintenance cost structure from continuous upkeep (power, line degradation etc.) to largely being the expense of replacing direct physical damage (trees, back hoes).
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Indeed. Clearly this is an expenditure the first world country with the lowest sovereign debt of all developed nations cannot possibly afford, in a world where major growth industries are being increasingly dominated by IT companies.
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A 1 TB cap is pretty huge though. In practice, would you even come close to hitting it?
Also this is just the first 'batch' of ISPs that have announced pricing on the network - and they are all currently considered "premium" ISPs for existing DSL connections. Wait until the cheap and nasty ISPs get on board and I'm sure you'll see unlimited plans happening (might take a few years ... but if they can offer unlimited cap 24 Mbit ADSL2+ now, which they do, they can do it on the NBN).