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KDE Open Source

KDE Announces 4.9 Beta1 and Testing Initiative 134

Posted by Unknown Lamer
from the listening-to-actual-users-instead-of-unicorns dept.
jrepin writes "KDE released the first beta for its version 4.9 of Workspaces, Applications, and Development Platform. With API, dependency and feature freezes in place, the KDE team's focus is now on fixing bugs and further polishing new and old functionality. Highlights of 4.9 include, but are not limited to: Qt Quick in Plasma Workspaces, many improvements in Dolphin file manager, deeper integration of Activities, and many performance improvements. The KDE Community is committed to improving quality substantially with a new program that starts with the 4.9 releases. The 4.9 beta releases are the first phase of a testing process that involves volunteers called 'Beta Testers.' They will receive training, test the two beta releases and report issues through KDE Bugzilla." I was recently forced into installing GNOME 3 (who knew printing required removing GNOME 2); after trying for a while to get Sawfish working again in the deprecated fallback mode, I gave up and tried KDE again. I have to say that I was surprised: KDE 4.5 was unpolished and painful to use whereas 4.7 is pretty slick. With the GNOME 3 developers catering to some seemingly mythical user, it's nice to see the other major desktop using user feedback to make design decisions.
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KDE Announces 4.9 Beta1 and Testing Initiative

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:04PM (#40214637)

    Hey! The GNOME 3 team DOES use user feedback, you insensitive clods! After they print them out (which requires GNOME 3, as you've seen), they shred them and turn them into fine bedding for their various rodent pets! And the rodents, in turn, whisper great design ideas to the developers!

    • by jimshatt (1002452)
      These 10-dimensional 'rodents' have gone too far with their experiments! I hate their 'user tests', it's indignified. Ooh wait shiny button... brb
    • But than again, those rodents are (as we all know) mice, and they are the single most intelligent species on earth. If all goes well Federico Mena's scull will be opened by Frankie and Benjy to find out what the question actually is!
    • ...yet the article poster's commentary, the first post and most of the discussion threads seem to focus on GNOME 3 and other competitors.

      I gave up using KDE pre-4.x and haven't really given it serious consideration since the reansition to 4. I know I've missed a lot of changes, improvements and so on so I am profoundly disappointed with the tone of discussion here. Not only is the first readable post an anti-GNOME troll/joke, at the time I read this it is rated "informative". What in God's name are the m

  • If I want to try KDE I just download the kubuntu distribution?

    Random question - How come Ubuntu 12.04 has a 5 year support system instead of the usual 3 year cycle?

    • Re:kubuntu? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Razgorov Prikazka (1699498) on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:16PM (#40214729)
      That is one option. There are hundreds more, including using synaptic or apt to download and install kde (assuming that you already use 'regular' ubuntu). Or on the other end of the spectrum you can also create a linux-from-scratch 'distro' and compile the whole packet. That makes for days on end filled with joy and fun, and it is very educational as well!

      I dont know what the options for Amiga are btw...
      • Amigas can run PowerPC distributions. But frankly I'd rather just run AmigaOS4.

      • Re:kubuntu? (Score:5, Informative)

        by icebike (68054) * on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:27PM (#40214829)

        Not to mention Opensuse is a very good distro with full KDE support. (They do Gnome and other flavors as well).
        I happen to think Opensuse does KDE better than anyone else, but that's just my opinion.

        Having long ago gone the "educational" route, I'm perfectly happy to start with a well thought out distro these days, and have 4 of them on this machine, in (Virtual Machines), including some pretty old school ones running nothing graphical.

        • This (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Tailhook (98486) on Monday June 04, 2012 @09:12PM (#40215529)

          OpenSUSE: Linux for grownups that earn a living in Linux.

          I tried. I really, really tried to cope with Gnome 3 on Ubuntu. When that failed, I reverted to Gnome 2 and found it neglected; things that should work, things that worked when Gnome 2 was Ubuntu's desktop, don't.

          Back to OpenSUSE. You might need to beat akanodi and nepomuk into submission and the current release installer gets NVidia wrong, but those are simple problems for competent users to overcome. Once squared away you're left with a usable, feature complete desktop. Protip: replace the distro Flash with the Adobe's RPM.

          I must agree 100% with the 'mythical user' jab. As distributed by Ubuntu Gnome 3 offers only pain and frustration for power users. Maybe Mint fixes it. I don't know. Burned enough weekend time getting to where I'm happy so I'm sticking with OpenSUSE.

          I'm not an Ubuntu hater. I absolutely love Ubuntu Server (which amounts to regression tested Debian) and use it for several production systems. I'll give it a few years, hope for some sort of upheaval among Gnome developers and then try again.

          Dear Mark Shuttleworth,

          You're product is being hurt by Gnome. Designing exclusively for novices and causal users will not work. Things that succeed emerge from the power user. Make them happy first. Then hide the things they need and love behind a simplified interface. Macs do not lack features or capabilities, they just avoid bothering lusers with complexity. That's why OS-X simultaneously pleases both grandma and Joe Programmer. Please Mark, you're smart enough to understand this. Stop suffering these Gnome guys and their tragically bad design. Linux really needs you to figure this out at some point.

          I'd pay a license fee for it. I swear.

          Your's sincerely,
          The Grownups.

          • by Nexus7 (2919)

            You said:
            > Maybe mint fixes it.

            It well might, but last I looked (4 months ago), it was incomplete. No power support for notebooks (suspend on lid close, etc). These days it's Fedora KDE mix for me (further ahead than Kubuntu - for example, a working openconnect for Cisco VPN); and Lubuntu for friends and family I have to support.

            • I just finished an install of Fedora 17 off the KDE spin disc last week - super smooth and things are running great. I'm not sure why everyone always automatically jumps from the idea of gnome to immediately considering Kubuntu.

              And even though I run KDE - it's not like I had to give up any gnome applications that I like. Hard drive space is cheap.

          • Dear Mark Shuttleworth,

            You're product is being hurt by Gnome. Designing exclusively for novices and causal users will not work. Things that succeed emerge from the power user. Make them happy first. Then hide the things they need and love behind a simplified interface. Macs do not lack features or capabilities, they just avoid bothering lusers with complexity. That's why OS-X simultaneously pleases both grandma and Joe Programmer. Please Mark, you're smart enough to understand this. Stop suffering these Gnome guys and their tragically bad design. Linux really needs you to figure this out at some point.

            I'd pay a license fee for it. I swear.

            Your's sincerely, The Grownups.

            I think he knows. Hence the UX called Unity. Unfortunately, it too is geared exclusively towards novices and casual users. Just go w/ Kubuntu, Mint KDE or any of the KDE oriented distros out there.

            • Or go Xubuntu.

              I'm using it after trying Kubuntu (until now I can't use its interface to configure the wifi nor the sound), after discarding Unity (one instance per app is their target), and the "Classic Gnome" (several little things unpolished, but better than the previous.)

              Now I'm using Xubuntu (xfce) for about three months and I'm very happy with it.

            • by dmbasso (1052166)

              I think he knows. Hence the UX called Unity. Unfortunately, it too is geared exclusively towards novices and casual users.

              I'm neither novice nor casual user, and I disagree with you. While I couldn't stand the earlier versions (having switched to LXDE) the current version is quite good. With MyUnity and CompizConfig I could configure it the way I like it, there is no functionality missing from before.

          • by Nimey (114278)

            Are you of the opinion that Linus isn't a grownup? He posted a rant about SuSE on his G+ page a few months back:

            https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/1vyfmNCYpi5 [google.com]

          • by mcgrew (92797) *

            Dear Mark Shuttleworth,
            You're product

            Shuttleworth is NOT product! They outlawed slavery over a century ago!

    • Re:kubuntu? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by V!NCENT (1105021) on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:25PM (#40214797)

      If you want a pile of unstable crap then yes.

      You're better of with Fedora, because it's the Red Hat backed distro that is bleeding edge, but upstream. As raw and original as it gets. It also has the latest open source drivers.

      If you want to live in the world of closed and patented crap (can't blame you as it's all around us, everywhere) then you can get away with RPMFusion, which is a repository (app store thing) full of borderline illegal (as in against lobbied laws) stuff like automatic DVD 'copy protection' cracking on the fly, MPEG codecs, patented stuff and what have you? You can simply enable that with the browser.

      Don't try it out on virtual setups; it runs best bare metal. In fact; its very nature is to be close to the metal.

      Don't expect the bleeding edge KDE spin on the bleeding edge Fedora Linux distro to be a ccomplete polished ride, but even though the learning curve is a little steep (in OS enduser terms); the hill is very low, so to speak. Once over it, then it becomes second nature and you'll start to wonder why the hell more popular OS's are so full of crap in the way they do things. But it's not as smooth as Apple's OS from the start, so bare that in mind! ;)

      • Re:kubuntu? (Score:5, Informative)

        by shutdown -p now (807394) on Monday June 04, 2012 @08:58PM (#40215419) Journal

        If you want "bleeding edge, but upstream", then nothing beats Arch.

        • Disclaimer: I still haven't used Arch

          The "bleeding" in part doesn't apply though if you can apply updates and it not break things or freak out because something requires newer libraries than the repos have (and thats with just the default repos) - all you have then is a distro thats on the edge, not the "bleeding, cut my wrists, edge"
          • by reub2000 (705806)

            So far with Fedora 16 on my laptop I've seen a kernel update that didn't like my wifi nic. By enabling the updates repo on fedora you get many of the disadvantages of a rolling release like the possibility of things breaking, without advantages like not having to reinstall.

            • by ADRA (37398)

              Fedora is definitely bleeding edge, but often rewarding. I have had a very sucessful Fedora 16 run except for the brief period when the early 3.3.2's would panic my laptop (was fixed in 3.3.x evidently), so I was stuck with an older kernel for a while and life went on. Fedora 17 on one of my alternate laptops seems even better so far, but my only pain is that its still a b**ch to install Sun JVM's on it (Many java apps I use still barf horribly and regularly with the IcedTea variants).

              Can anyone point me at

              • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

                by stoolpigeon (454276) *

                I always just install the Oracle JDK - I did it last week after I upgraded my laptop to F17 - simply a download and install as directed - no problems. This was a Dell Latitude laptop.

      • I found both Kubuntu and Fedora to be incredibly bug-ridden. In my experience, the best KDE-based distros today are Arch and Debian. So I'd suggest Arch, since Debian probably won't have KDE 4.9 until 2013 or so (they just upgraded unstable/testing to 4.7 and I think 4.8 has is entering the experimental branch).

      • If you want to live in the world of closed and patented crap (can't blame you as it's all around us, everywhere) then you can get away with RPMFusion, which is a repository (app store thing) full of borderline illegal (as in against lobbied laws) stuff like automatic DVD 'copy protection' cracking on the fly, MPEG codecs, patented stuff and what have you? You can simply enable that with the browser.

        Illegal in USA, but not in most of the rest of the world. All the stuff you mentioned in pretty much legal in most countries.

        Fedora isn't really bleeding edge:

        Debian is very very stable and usually lags behind.
        Arch is really bleeding edge.

        Fedora is somewhat in between both.

    • by Artifakt (700173)

      If I want to try KDE I just download the kubuntu distribution?

      Shore answer: Yes.
      Longer answer: Yes, but by default, Kubuntu 12.04 doesn't use KDE 4.9 yet, it uses version 4.8.2. That's in a long term stable release for Kubuntu, so it seems like a pretty safe bet that the October release of Kubuntu (12.10) will go on up to at least 4.9.0. Really, I'm at least slightly impressed that Kubuntu's board feels a version of KDE that's only a few months from cutting edge is fine for an LTS release.

      • by Nimey (114278)

        Nothing too odd about it. They've done the same thing with Gnome for the past six years: whichever is the most recently released version at the time of an LTS release gets the extra-long support, full stop.

        They did the same for the just-getting-usable KDE 4.4 with the 10.04 LTS, though with 8.04 you could either stick with KDE 3.5 or try out 4.0.

        • by davetv (897037)
          I am still running Kubuntu 8.04 with KDE 3.5 on my Acer 3620 laptop (I am typing this on it). I manually upgrade stuff here and there but find it incredibly stable.
      • Add these PPAs

        https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa [launchpad.net]

        and you will get 4.9 as soon as it becomes available.

    • Re:kubuntu? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Tarlus (1000874) on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:38PM (#40214897)

      If I want to try KDE I just download the kubuntu distribution?

      Many here will argue that Fedora or openSUSE will give you a much better KDE experience, out of the box. My personal experiences with Kubuntu's take on KDE4 have not been positive, unfortunately...

      Random question - How come Ubuntu 12.04 has a 5 year support system instead of the usual 3 year cycle?

      12.04 is an LTS (Long Term Support) release. This means that it will be supported and patched for a longer period of time than their regular incremental releases, and this works well for people who don't feel inclined to go through the upgrade process every six months. It tends to be the more stable route for those who just want to work and don't want to have to fiddle with their computer more than they need to. It is also possible to upgrade directly from one LTS to the next. Every two years in April, they release a new LTS.

    • by unixisc (2429386)
      That's for Linux. If you are open to BSDs, then there is PC-BSD as well, which comes w/ a choice of DEs, but where KDE 4.7.3 is the default.
  • by Chemisor (97276) on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:13PM (#40214705)

    I am so glad that KDE has finally discovered that new "beta testing" thing. It is sure to improve the quality of future releases.

  • by Maltheus (248271) on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:17PM (#40214731)

    I would love KDE if it would just stick to being a window manager. But everything related to that semantic desktop nonsense is perpetually buggy and knotify refuses to live with anything less than 100% of the CPU. These problems come and go with different releases, but they never entirely go away.

    I have used KDE for many years on many computers, but I finally had to give up on it this year. Like so many open source projects, the bloat drove me away.

    • by icebike (68054) * on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:37PM (#40214881)

      Just turn off or uninstall what you don't need.

      I find it very stable, and rather surprisingly lightweight considering all the bells and whistles it supports. The current version is one of the best versions of KDE of all time, IMHO.

      Nobody I know uses the semantic desktop, its simply a developmental toy, and most people turn off the indexing functions, since they pretty well know what is on their machines and where it is. They've even been browbeaten into deep-sixing their "activities" for the vast majority of users that simply wanted multiple desktops without all the widgets. (Its still there, but mostly caged and toothless).

        It does everything I ask of it, and gets out of the way when I don't need it. Their Kmail, which use to be one of the best email MUAs has fallen to unusable status of late, in the midst of another re-write, but Thunderbird and several other are there to pick up the slack.

      • by Maltheus (248271) on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:47PM (#40214963)

        You can't uninstall semantic desktop, it's integrated AFAIK. I do turn off the file indexing, but you have to remember to do that on each account you make, and I have even had it pop back on from time to time. It's mind boggling to me that this is still on by default, given that it brings every machine out there to its kness. As for knotify, that's tied to everything and seems to be the biggest culprit in thrashing the CPU.

        Maybe KDE is simply not a good fit for Gentoo, but I've seen these problems for years now on quite a few completely different machines. KDE can be good for 6-8 months at a time, but eventually the kitchen sink they threw into it eventually starts to back up, requiring a hard reset and all that entails.

        • by slack_justyb (862874) on Monday June 04, 2012 @08:42PM (#40215339)
          Yes you can remove the semantic desktop stuff. Gentoo has a compile option that you can include that will specifically build KDE sans the semantic desktop.
          • That might be true, but then simple things like full body search of your email from kmail is not possible, since it's highly integrated on the latest versions. Unless you know something that I don't and are willing to share to make this possible? :)
            • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

              by Anonymous Coward
              Add "tsa" into your USE flags. for full body search
            • I'm not sure about the full body email search, but if you wanted to do that wouldn't you want semantic desktop? I guess what you're asking is how to have such an option in KMail without having to include the entire kitchen sink that is the semantic desktop? I think you can pick and choose the services that nepomuk uses, but I would be out of my element on that since I just turn the whole thing off. If there isn't a way to filter nepomuk to only be used for KMail, then that would be a great request.
              • I'm not sure about the full body email search, but if you wanted to do that wouldn't you want semantic desktop? I guess what you're asking is how to have such an option in KMail without having to include the entire kitchen sink that is the semantic desktop?

                KMail (used to?) store its email in the maildir format, meaning they're all just plain text files. It could fall back on plain old 'find' commands in the shell and return the results. But from what I'm reading, it's so wedded to "semantic desktop" now that it can't even do that? Ugh. I guess I really will have to ditch it for good on this upgrade (moving from Mint 9 LTS to Mint 13 LTS shortly).

                • by MtHuurne (602934)

                  KMail still supports maildir, but it's handled by a daemon now instead of inside the KMail process. And that daemon isn't very stable. So you'll see status notifications appear when the daemon has crashed and restarted. I hope this will be addressed in 4.9 (I'm using 4.8).

              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                by rec9140 (732463)

                I'm not sure about the full body email search, but if you wanted to do that wouldn't you want semantic desktop? I guess what you're asking is how to have such an option in KMail without having to include the entire kitchen sink that is the semantic desktop? I think you can pick and choose the services that nepomuk uses, but I would be out of my element on that since I just turn the whole thing off. If there isn't a way to filter nepomuk to only be used for KMail, then that would be a great request.

                No, I don't use semantic desktop, and I don't need my entire system indexed for one program to have a search function. The search function was working quite fine in KMail till this "enahancement/improvement" with nepoturkey.

                First, since I can't even import the huge existing maildirs with out success in the latest version.

                Second, since I disable nepoturkey on install I loose the ability to search emails.. thats WRONG! WRONG WRONG W R O N G ! ! !

                Semantic, schemantic, phooey! Some KDE dev's are just too young

            • by paulatz (744216)

              That might be true, but then simple things like full body search of your email from kmail is not possible, since it's highly integrated on the latest versions. Unless you know something that I don't and are willing to share to make this possible? :)

              Not that anybody actually ever used kmail anyway. I'll give you a secret hint: you can perfectly well use thunderbird under kde.

              To be honest, in 10 years of using KDE (from the late 2.x versions) it never shipped with a high quality mail client. Usable, yes, but not up to par with thunderbird or even to the Opera mail client or, nowadays, gmail.

              • by rec9140 (732463)

                "Not that anybody actually ever used kmail anyway. I'll give you a secret hint: you can perfectly well use thunderbird under kde.

                To be honest, in 10 years of using KDE (from the late 2.x versions) it never shipped with a high quality mail client. Usable, yes, but not up to par with thunderbird or even to the Opera mail client or, nowadays, gmail"

                Wrong! I've used KMail since, well forever. No! thunderchicken is NOT up to the task, and KMail is/was {till 4.8} a HIGH QUALITY mail client. It works just the way

                • by unixisc (2429386)
                  Under KDE3.5, KMail used to be pretty anemic. I wonder whether it's seen major improvement in KDE4.x, for it to be described in the terms above?
          • by Maltheus (248271)

            Ok, I recall that now. But I'm pretty sure that at one point, it became a required flag. It may not be anymore, and it may only be a gentoo requirement, but that's the only reason I ever re-enabled it.

      • by renoX (11677) on Tuesday June 05, 2012 @11:07AM (#40219661)

        Turning off something to have a normally functioning desktop shouldn't be required: most users use the regular desktop without changing settings, even if they're annoyed by something..

        In my opinion, KDE developers make a big mistake here, enabling by default non-ready features..

        • by tenco (773732)

          Wasn't that KDE's development motto? What was it again... deploy now, fix later? Ah, no: release early, release often.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by tzanger (1575)

      I too was a long-time KDE user (at least since the 2.0 days) -- the entire 4.x release has been one colossal fuck-up. It's at 4.9 and NOW they're focusing on usability and bugfixing? I got sick of it. I moved to xfce on my workstation and for the most part I'm very happy. My wife bought an i7 macbook air for me for Christmas and that's been my main machine. Before that was Kubuntu.

      Sorry KDE, you've lost me. I was one of your biggest and longest fans. Your 3.x releases were the pinnacle of your design. 4.x w

      • > I too was a long-time KDE user (at least since the 2.0 days) -- the entire 4.x release has been one colossal fuck-up.
        > From what I understand Gnome went and did the same thing to their faithful.

        Its sad to see the Linux community remains clueless about UI design. :-/ Everybody seems to be jumping on the tablet bandwagon not understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the traditional desktop and the same perspectives for tablets.

        As one gets older I'm finding I just want a stable, standard, UI that

        • by marsu_k (701360)

          You know, like giving options for "WindowShade" where users can roll up the window to just the title bar, having a title bar that doesn't take up the whole honky window width (BeOS did this perfect with "tab'd window titles), etc.

          I'm not sure if I understand what you're asking - KWin has supported shading windows just as you described since like forever, I personally have it mapped to the mouse wheel. And it also has featured window grouping (similar to the "tab'd window titles" you refer to) since 4.5 as far as I remember (although, it seems at some point the feature did become disabled by default). Most of the themes do feature a full width title bar, but I'm sure more BeOS-like ones exist if you're so inclined.

    • I would love KDE if it would just stick to being a window manager. But everything related to that semantic desktop nonsense is perpetually buggy and knotify refuses to live with anything less than 100% of the CPU. These problems come and go with different releases, but they never entirely go away.

      I have used KDE for many years on many computers, but I finally had to give up on it this year. Like so many open source projects, the bloat drove me away.

      Why not look @ Razor-qt [razor-qt.org]? It is an advanced, easy-to-use, and fast desktop environment based on Qt technologies. Looks like it's ideal for KDE users who think that KDE has grown too big and unwieldy. Some of the more recent Linux distros seem to include it.

    • If you update to at least 4.8.2, you will see that the semantic desktop stuff barely causes a blip on your CPU load.

      • by rec9140 (732463)

        If you update to at least 4.8.2, you will see that the semantic desktop stuff barely causes a blip on your CPU load.

        Thats NOT the only reason for disabling it! I do NOT want an INDEX of my system! Period! If you can see the implications of this, then you don't understand why having a pre existing index of your system is not good for your. Regardless of whether your doing any thing that would trigger this problem, its an issue.

        Its like many things, bored programmers fixing a problem that does NOT EXIST.

    • But it isn't a window manager. It's a Desktop Enviroment. The windows manager is only a tiny portion of what KDE is.

  • by ThorGod (456163) on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:27PM (#40214827) Journal

    When the announcement is about the new release of KDE 4.9?

    Bizarre.

    • by orgue (754785)
      Because KDE is existing for the purpose of being compared with GNOME.
      • KDE developers must sure have it easy, then...

      • by unixisc (2429386) on Monday June 04, 2012 @11:45PM (#40216335)
        Pretty moronic, given that KDE was there first, and GNOME only exists b'cos the FSF threw a stink about Qt's licensing. Once KDE went GPL, GNOME really lost its rationale for existing, particularly since it never fulfilled its raison d'etre - that of being a GNU Network Object Model Environment! Hell, GNUSTEP is more of a GNU Network Object Model Environment than 'GNOME' is, and a far better one at that. Ironically, for a GNU project, it's funny that the 'libre-Linux' distros like Trisquel bundle GNOME3 in fallback mode b'cos of the likelihood that the drivers won't be liberated firmware. One would think that a GNU project like GNOME would factor in all this before making 3D video accelaration a part of the key features.
        • by olau (314197)

          Pretty moronic, given that KDE was there first, and GNOME only exists b'cos the FSF threw a stink about Qt's licensing. Once KDE went GPL, GNOME really lost its rationale for existing, particularly since it never fulfilled its raison d'etre - that of being a GNU Network Object Model Environment!

          It's true that GNOME to some degree was started because of the licensing of Qt and got a lot of corporate backing out of that, but the rest of what you say is just stupid.

          The people who started GNOME were architecture astronauting it with all the component stuff, that was back in the day when that was all the craze, then eventually figured out people don't care about components, they care about simple-to-use software. And components get in the way there because they make the software much more complex. That

        • I am unsure why people talk about Gnome still. It is lying on the floor with blood running out of its neck and the knife has fallen out of the wound. It would be nice to find the murderer and hold them to account, but that can not happen since the death, for all intents and purposes (for all in tents and porpoises?), appears to be a suicide. I still think it was Microsoft who did it just like they did it to Gentoo. Brutal.

    • by Asic Eng (193332)

      I think it's including that, because a lot of users are frustrated by the way desktop UIs have been developing on Linux. (I'm not making claims regarding us being a majority - just that this reflects the feeling of a sizable number of users.) When KDE threw away the excellent code base they had with KDE 3 and early KDE 4 releases turned out to be horrible (much improved in later KDE 4s) many KDE users went to GNOME. Now with GNOME 3 there is similar frustration with esoteric UI concepts and the like. So wi

  • by rueger (210566) * on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:34PM (#40214871) Homepage
    I abandoned Ubuntu when Unity was foisted on users, moving over to Mint. [linuxmint.com]

    With the Maya release (aka Mint 13) they've left behind Gnome for a choice of MATE or Cinnamon. I installed the latter, and I'm liking it a LOT.

    Lots of good, simple usability, and a decided lack of annoying flash and gadgetry.

    Nonetheless, I'll likely give the new KDE a look.
    • by bmo (77928) on Monday June 04, 2012 @11:45PM (#40216341)

      If you're changing distros because of the default desktop, you're doing it wrong.

      The Ubuntu archives have several dozen desktops, window managers, etc, in the archives all for the pointing, clicking, and installing.

      It's like the people who complain that Ubuntu is bloated, when you can start from a text-only minimal install and build up from there. Linux distributions, including Ubuntu, give you the tools to bend the distro to your will. Use them instead of complaining about things.

      Your post is nothing but a flame pointed at Ubuntu.

      --
      BMO

      • by unixisc (2429386)

        But he'd have to go install Ubuntu w/ Unity or GNOME3 first, then go to software center or online, get Cinnamon (which I don't think is there in the Ubuntu repos) and then install it, and see whether it replaces Unity or not. Going to Mint, as he did, seems a lot more straightforward.

        At any rate, he could also try out Razor-qt

        • by bmo (77928)

          But he'd have to go install Ubuntu w/ Unity or GNOME3 first

          No, he doesn't. Since when is Unity or Gnome3 mandatory for Ubuntu? You don't have to install *any* desktop at all. Just because someone can't be arsed to not look around for the alternate installs doesn't mean they don't exist.

          And all he has to do is add the Cinnamon PPA to /etc/apt/sources.list and sudo-apt-get install the metapackage.

          Bam. Cinnamon.

          --
          BMO

      • by Fri13 (963421)

        Some things can not be changed without changing distribution. Like package naming and decencies for them.
        Some packages are compiled with bloat settings or with style that user have harder time to hunt specific version (still needed some cases).

        • by bmo (77928)

          >Some packages are compiled with bloat settings

          And this is why you can turn off "install recommends"

          It's literally one mouse click in Synaptic.

          --
          BMO

      • Hm. Has Ubuntu ever fixed the problem with keyboard and mouse stopping working when an Nvidia video card is present on the system? Nope. That bug is over 5 years old now. It is not my fault that the problem only occurs on 1 system out of a thousand even if my system is one of them. Ubuntu just needs to die because it is NOT fit for survival. Unity? Unresolved bugs half a decade old? Gnome3? Meh.

      • by tenco (773732)

        Your post is nothing but a flame pointed at Ubuntu.

        I don't understand... isn't Mint just a repackaged Ubuntu?

    • by paulatz (744216)

      I abandoned Ubuntu when Unity was foisted on users, moving over to Mint. [linuxmint.com]

      Mint 12 was the most unholy mess of a piece of software I have ever tried; and its desktop environment, no matter how they call it, is just a badly patched version of gnome 3.

      I apologize for the flame, but I feel that Mint is doing much more harm than good to the Linux world. They funnel away users from real distribution baiting them with a quick remix of Ubuntu; the issue they are actually most accurate to fix are the sponsor referrals.

      And, they don't contribute anything back to the community, except for

  • Volunteers... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CannonballHead (842625) on Monday June 04, 2012 @07:36PM (#40214877)
    Volunteers called "Beta Testers." Wow. I wonder if this will catch on with other development groups? Sounds like a pretty neat idea. I'm surprised no one else has done that...
    • by segin (883667)
      And they're supposed to test things out before they're ready for general consumption... wait, why are they reducing that userbase? I remember when they would throw things called "stable releases" at everyone and their grandma to try out before they were ready.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    how much longer are the two camps and supporters going to squabble like children. Step back a bit and consider the damage done to Linux on the Desktop during this retard slapfight.

    • NO damage was done to the Linux desktop. Both camps have different ideas on how things should be done. Both camps tailor their project to a specific set of users. One combined project would likely alienate even more users since neither camp would be happy with the end result.

      Competition is also helpful for spurring innovation. Without competition, stagnation occurs because there is nothing driving progress forward. Look at how long IE6 stuck around until Firefox provided enough market pressure to force

      • Usually, 2 choices are good. Maybe 3 or 4. But when you have so many - KDE, GNOME, LXDE, XFCE, Razor-qt, GNUSTEP, Enlightenment, Afterstep and many others, then it tosses up a debate about whether it's a bonanza of DEs or a plethora of DEs. Also, toss in the confusion that there is b/w Desktop Environment, and Window Managers (which don't necessarily fall in the above list), and you also have AfterStep, Blackbox, Fluxbox, IceWM, Openbox, WindowMaker, ScrotWM and others.
  • It just works. No fuss. No insanity. Just panels and file managers and not a lot else that I don't care for. These monolithic desktop environments developed by mental patients are a bad thing!

    • by tyrione (134248)

      It just works. No fuss. No insanity. Just panels and file managers and not a lot else that I don't care for. These monolithic desktop environments developed by mental patients are a bad thing!

      I'm on Debian Sid and running GNOME 3.4.2 and KDE 4.8.3 officially released from Debian.

    • Sadly, it's just a matter of time before Gnome3 catches up on debian-stable.

  • by arose (644256)
    Apparently I'm mysterious, that's pretty cool!
  • I really hope they've added back the ability to have file progress dialogs as an option to having them stacked up in the notifications area.

    If I have multiple lengthly copy/move operations going on, I really prefer to have separate dialog windows to watch what's going on. It used to do that. And if I install Dolphin in Gnome, it still does it.

    In fact, I'd just install something Gnome-based if I could just get it to figure out that when my laptop lid is closed, and my computer is plugged into my monitor, I

    • by lbbros (900904)
      It's been there since ages: right click on the notification icon (the "i") and uncheck to show transfers.
      • by hazem (472289)

        That solves half of it. It's not in notification bar any more. But there are no status bars/windows anywhere now.

        I'll see what happens when I reboot.

        I appreciate your effort.

  • by kmahan (80459) on Monday June 04, 2012 @11:06PM (#40216177)

    Vote for a command line feature from KDE 3 (and X in general) that was never implemented in KDE 4 -- "--geometry"

    https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165355 [kde.org]

  • Any news on what extent has Wayland support been improved in KDE? Also, what is the state of Qt5 - is it good enough that KDE 5.0, when it surfaces, won't be the same sort of disaster that KDE4.0 was when it came out? Also, how are the different KDE specific apps - like Rekonq, Konqueror and so on?
    • Wayland support is still ongoing, but has been put at a lower priority since Wayland itself is hardly stable yet. As for Qt5, it's supposed to be released somewhere at the end of summer. KDE will likely only start switching with Qt 5.1. Presumably it should take relatively little time to port to Qt 5, at least not nearly as much as Qt 3 to Qt 4. Of course, for KDE there is also the KDE Frameworks 5 work to consider. In the end, I am not sure what the impact will be. We will just have to wait and see when it

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