Microsoft Unveils Outlook.com, Hotmail's Successor 368
New submitter faraway writes "Microsoft has just unveiled Outlook.com, the planned successor to Hotmail.com. It includes a lot of what you'd expect from email today, including storage (images, data), a calendar, integration with other Microsoft tools, and of course a clean UI. According to ZDNet, 'Outlook.com is integrated with Windows and Office, and can pull in Twitter, Facebook, Gmail and LinkedIn contacts. The new mail client has the Metro look and feel. And it is providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them.'"
Where's the logout link? (Score:2)
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Re:Where's the logout link? (Score:5, Insightful)
They have idiots at Google too, that took a good, functional UI and revamped it with a nonsensical one.
For instance: in the old Gmail, you had clearly labeled HTML buttons that said "Delete" "Compose" "Archive", etc. It was easy to find.
In the new UI, somebody decided that little tiny dark icons with no text description were cool. Now the Delete button is replaced by a tiny black icon that represents a trash can. Archive button is replaced by another tiny black icon which looks similar to the other little black icons. So basically, what used to be a two-step operation (move your mouse cursor to Delete button, click) is now a four or five-step operation. (move cursor over little black icon and hover, wait for the onHover title to see if it's the one you want, go on to the next little icon and hover, read title, then click if it's the right one).
Re:Where's the logout link? (Score:5, Informative)
In the new UI, somebody decided that little tiny dark icons with no text description were cool.
Gear -> Settings -> Button Labels -> Text
Re:Where's the logout link? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, if you think the GUI is hard to figure out, just go to a setting buried three levels deep behind a menu represented by an icon lacking text to fix it!
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I like how the label list is dynamic as all heck making it a pain to accurately click on a specific label.
Ads? (Score:5, Insightful)
The new mail client has the Metro look and feel. And it is providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them.'"
Ads? What do ads have to do with email?
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FTFY, hope that helps....
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I wonder if one of those fine, granular controls is "none at all"?
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I was going to ask the same question.
Of course, the answer is "BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Oh, you kids an your wacky ideas.... No Ads???? You're so funny!"
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Second and third best reasons not to use webmail.
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I'd skip web mail, but I like to be able to see some personal emails at work. Adblock makes it usable (and yes, ads exist even in web mail interface from a subscribed ISP).
Re:Ads? (Score:4, Informative)
I have an e-mail client that checks my personal e-mail on my work desktop.
I check my mail on my notebook, work desktop, iPad and iPhone. They all stay nicely in sync.
Leave it turned on and use dynamic DNS. Better yet, ssh into your mail provider's server.
Oh. THAT's your real problem - it all goes back to your ISP using broken e-mail. I admit, I haven't used ISP email in more than a decade. You can get an IMAP account for cheap from lots of places. For less than $10/month I've got a couple gigs of web space, IMAP e-mail, ssh access to the server and a domain name (and thus an e-mail address that won't change as long as I can afford it). Apple will give you one for free, although it's possible they're reading your e-mail. Google will give you one for free, but they're definitely reading your e-mail. Another option, and the ultimate for the paranoid, is to get dynamic DNS on your home computer and roll your own.
Although, by leaving messages on the server you can do reasonably well even with POP on a decent smartphone.
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Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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Open an email, look to the right of the email content. Try a few different emails.
Outlook.com is MS's latest Ad platform! (Score:5, Interesting)
I notice that MS is using the success they've had with advertising on XBOX to transform their other projects into similiar Ad platforms. That is why the Metro interface looks like the XBox dashboard, so that it will be easier to slip advertisements in it. Outlook.com will be no different.
no thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
And it is providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them.'"
My local mail app doesn't show me ANY ads, it doesn't expose the contents of my email to data miners, it lets me instantly search email and compose new mail even if the network goes down, it doesn't lock me into proprietary solutions, and as a mail packrat it's let me take my mail collection with me as I move from system to system since 1984.
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My local mail app ... doesn't expose the contents of my email to data miners
You only send and receive encrypted email? I am impressed!
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Which ones do not have decent terminal emulators?
Android has several pretty good ones.
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If mobile devices had decent terminal emulators, I might still be using local mail on a machine somewhere.
Have you heard of IMAP [wikipedia.org]? Use the local email clients on your laptop, mobile phone, desktop and whatever to access a single email account. I've got Dovecot [dovecot.org] running on a virtual server, and access it from numerous devices. I've also got Roundcube [roundcube.net] installed on the server, for a webmail interface.
(I've been running my own email system for some years now - and it's been surprisingly straightforward to admin.
No clippy (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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I so totally see someone applying for a job with some religious organization someday, and giving that as your reply-to e-mail address. Instant interview stopper.
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Re:Good names available (Score:5, Funny)
I got a.grim@outlook.com so everyone will know what an optimist I am
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That's pretty awesome actually.
Re:Good names available (Score:5, Informative)
One thing worth noting about this whole Outlook.com land grab: The accounts you are signing up for are not email accounts, they are "Microsoft accounts." They are keyed to Microsoft's whole package of cloudy services, so when you login to Outlook.com, you're also logging into SkyDrive, Messenger, and whatever else gets provisioned for you. If it worries you how Google seems to follow you all around the web once you're logged in, well, this is the start of Microsoft doing it.
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Apple is similar in that it wants an "Apple ID" to get onto some of its weird online stuff.
Maybe I can get one again! (Score:3)
Maybe now I can get a Microsoft email again, now that it's Outlook.com. Many years ago, my cat signed up for Hotmail, and used her real name and age, so when they came out with that "need to be 13 years old" restriction, they froze her account. The only way to unlock it would have been to use a credit card, but if I did that, she'd be logging on to Amazon with it and ordering cases of tuna, so no way.
(Although come to think of it, she's probably 13 years old by now; I'll have to check what year we got he
Tried it (Score:2)
I actually like it. I know people, especially those on /., hate Metro, but the UI/UX is really clean and discover-able. Of course, that said, I won't be switching from gmail for this, but at least the few times I have to check my old hotmail account will no longer require the hideous hotmail UI.
Another Outlook? (Score:5, Informative)
To the person who will inevitably point out that OE is discontinued, it's still on enough workstations out there that I still receive "Why won't my OFT work in 'Outlook'" support calls.
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Most people seem to understand the difference between Outlook Web Access and Outlook, so I don't think they'll have a problem with Outlook.com vs Outlook.... although Outlook.com and OWA may be confused now.
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Better spam filtering? (Score:4, Interesting)
Hotmail's spam filtering is without a doubt the worst on the web. Obvious spam ends up in my Inbox, and legitimate mail ends up in the spam.
What's worse though is when it gets fooled into thinking that the email is part of a mailing list I've subscribed to and displays all the images automatically, making the spammer aware that my email address is valid.
Re:Better spam filtering? (Score:4, Insightful)
Hotmail's spam filtering is without a doubt the worst on the web. Obvious spam ends up in my Inbox, and legitimate mail ends up in the spam.
I'm not sure this is much better. I've had access to a preview version of Outlook.com for a couple of weeks now, and I've been forwarding it mail from an account that gets lots of press releases. A few of the really obvious spam emails end up in the junk folder automatically, but so do some of the "legitimate" press releases -- and that's assuming you wouldn't normally classify a press release as spam. 90 percent of the mail I sent it seemed to sail right through.
What's more, Outlook.com tries to detect context for each of the mails you receive, to give you different types of information linked to the message. One thing it tries to do is differentiate between mail from individuals that's intended specifically for you and mail from mailing lists. Needless to say, next to nothing I sent it wasn't from a mailing list, but it flagged a few messages as being from individuals anyway.
What it does when it thinks you're seeing a message from one of your friends is it tries to display other information about that person in the box where the ads would go, such as the latest post from their Twitter or Facebook feed. It was pretty amusing to see an email from someone that began, "Dear {{YourName Here}}" and off to the right, Outlook.com was asking me to Friend the sender on Facebook.
Needless to say, my "usage" of the product so far has been pretty atypical, and maybe by running an email account on it where I don't actually talk to any of my friends and 90 percent of the incoming mail is totally unsolicited breaks the expected usage pattern.
But still, their vision of how email works doesn't really jibe with mine. Say one of my business contacts sends me an email about a project we're working on. Is this the time to follow their Twitter feed? Probably not. All of that functionality just seems like feature creep, and I suspect it has something to do with marketing partnerships.
I like it... (Score:2)
Nice clean UI, easy to use and fairly fast. I think this could be a good one. Though I don't like the idea of an @outlook.com domain for email...
Obvious strategy. Can they pull it off? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is something Microsoft should have undertaken immediately after acquiring Hotmail. Microsoft has a strong brand with Outlook, and it makes total sense to be using that brand for their webmail offering.
Doing it at this time also makes sense. They're making a big push for a new user interface ("metro"), and this is one more place where they can integrate that interface, making it consistent across their offerings.
Of course, the devil is in the details. If they do it wrong, it will weaken their Outlook brand and push existing customers towards competitors. On the other hand, they're getting a ton of free publicity, so they have a chance to capitalize on the moment and steal market share.
Unfortunately for Microsoft, they don't have a good history of execution on things like this--most likely the new platform will be horrible, but they'll keep at it, and after a few generations, it will be a decent competitor, but that's three to five years out.
Re:Obvious strategy. Can they pull it off? (Score:4)
Hotmail had 8.5 million users when MS acquired... not bad for 1997. At the time, Hotmail may have been a stronger name than Outlook. At any rate, Outlook has generally been aimed at business users while Hotmail has been aimed at home users. But I agree that they still should have done this at least 10 years ago.
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Hotmail is (and was) a stronger brand for free webmail than Outlook is. Most people who know Outlook as something other than "that crappy email client that comes with Windows?" probably aren't in the market for free webmail accounts.
ads? (Score:2)
providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them
How about "none" and "ever"?
This is why I pay for independent email hosting..
Consult the Magic 8 Ball (Score:5, Funny)
IMAP/Exchange support? (Score:4)
I can't find any mention of it, but does it include either IMAP or Exchange support? One of my complaints about Hotmail is that they still haven't provided any accessibility from software clients except through POP, and POP isn't really appropriate anymore for personal email addresses.
Really, IMO, they should be using the same connectors as Exchange so you can access the calendar and address book from software clients. It's not as though they're unfamiliar with the technology. I suppose they don't want to make a decent free email service, though, since it would cannibalize their more expensive services. I guess I'll just stick with Gmail.
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IMAP probably never. If IMAP caught on then Exchange would become less popular.
I wish my ISP allowed IMAP though, it seems quite a lot of them only support POP.
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That's how Android supports Hotmail, use m.hotmail.com as the Exchange server.
Yeah, that's how *Android* supports Hotmail, but it doesn't work for desktop computers.
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I signed up back when it was HoTMaiL.. (Score:2)
to have a valid email that was not work related. Two reasons. 1. To sign up for downloads and other stuff on the internet. 2. To look for another job. I have had many work related emails since 1995, but the same my personal Hotmail account. I even have a short and easy username since I signed up so early in the HoTMaiL beta. I upgraded to a Plus account for a year or two, but then didn't seen the need after the free service caught up to my requirements. I have since setup another junk hotmail acco
No IMAP/SMTP (Score:5, Informative)
Hello no IMAP/SMTP support goodbye
Microsoft Mess (Score:5, Interesting)
myname@passport.com
myname@hotmail.com
myname@live.com
myname@outlook.com
I now have 4 Microsoft e-mail/IM IDs that basically do the same thing but don't talk to each other unless I manually merge them, which doesn't always work.
Thanks a lot Gates and Ballmer... and then you wonder why Page and Brin ate your lunch.
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To be fair, you're really kinda doing it wrong. A single "Microsoft Account" (that literally be any email account like -- mine's my gmail address) gets you access to all of Microsoft's properties -- Xbox, Zune, all the Live properties like Messenger, Bing and Bing Rewards, Skydrive, Office Online, etc. Mail through hotmail.com or live.com or outlook.com is all the same (well, I don't think hotmail.com has upgraded yet, but the others a
Pure dumb gold from MS (Score:2)
Another New Microsoft Product!!! (Score:2)
Integration with it's own products (Score:2)
Integrations with it's own products is it's main issue. Most users don't use MS's calendar/chat/etc, so integration with those adds little value.
Integration with XMPP means that people might consider using it, since they can still chat with their xmpp/gtalk contacts.
Integration with caldav means people will use their CURRENT calendar.
At the moment, it's either migrate EVERYTHING, or don't use it. Most people wan't bother.
I'd actually probably tell some friend that hates google to try it out if it had XMPP
HTML only (Score:3)
Wow, I actually tried this a few minutes.
The interface is horrible, most of the screen is generally unused, and fields (like where you write an email) have no border, so it's hard to tell where they end.
Plus, all mail is always html. No plain-text email. No option to disable this so-called-feature either, so users will only be able to send html-emails, to the annoyance of many recipients.
New SpamFilters (Score:2)
Time to update the spam filters from hotmail.com to outlook.com
The trillion tiny little fuck-ups.... (Score:4, Informative)
The trillion tiny little fuck-ups by Microsoft are fully evident in this new service: I am not allowed to enter my mobile phone number because apparently "it is not suitable in my region". Right.
And I got immediately an alert that someone tried to use my account without authorization so I have to immediately change my password.
Some other localization issues and forcing me to use a language I don't want to use... oh well, thanks for reminding me of what piece of crap Microsoft products are (still).
Why the maximum password length? (Score:5, Informative)
You are required to pick a password of 16 characters or less - why? I blogged about maximum password length restrictions before [harvard.edu], and I would like to hear a compelling reason why this is needed. Otherwise, I can only assume they are storing them in plaintext.
Re:Fantastic first impressions (Score:5, Insightful)
Obvious shill is obvious. Why dont you and faraway do us a favor and remove yourselves from the site?
Is slashdot's reputation really that low that companies dont think we'll see through such a blatant attempt?
Re:Fantastic first impressions (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean to tell me that this account with no other posts, who has nothing bad to say about using an as-yet-unreleased product, lies about the competitors features, and also implies that the aforementioned competitors url (email with the first letter changed) is hard to remember is a shill?
I never would have guessed!
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You mean to tell me that this account with no other posts, who has nothing bad to say about using an as-yet-unreleased product...
It is released, at least in the preview sense. I'm using it now (you can sign in with any Microsoft account, like an MSN or Passport one of old, in addition to the new outlook.com ones). Won't switch, but might make a new account for a junk address if I can get POP/SMTP access to it.
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You may not be one for conspiracies, but conspiracies abound where money is to be made. Maybe you're a shill for the shill.
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No, it's not obvious. It's speculation because someone praised a product from 'the enemy'.
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Its not just praise, its a glowing recommendation. From a brand new account with two posts? FP posted the exact minute the article was posted? "A great domain name, and easy to remember" Really? Thats what makes it a pro service, that its got "brand recognition"? What slashdotter would recommend something based on branding!!! no one would!!!
Don't even get me started on their use of proper punctuation!! Look at all them commas!
are you really that naive?
he says the word great like 3 times. No one but
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That means that they joined, subscribed to get the preview of the story just to say how much they liked the outlook.com preview. Thats what they call dedication.
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It's obviously high from a marketing standpoint but they think the crowd's intellect is on par with Digg or Reddit :-P
Re:Fantastic first impressions (Score:5, Insightful)
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What's more, multiple people apparently modded him up, and multiple people have modded the call-out posts (including the parent) down. Just lovely.
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Why would I want to customize my advertisements, I like them unobtrusive. I doubt I could turn them off.
With tagging, who needs folders.
I doubt it will be faster than gmail, what with the extra javascript required for metro.
And who has trouble remembering their email address domain? Seriously?
And why would I want integration for my email.
And of course it's your honest opinion, you were most likely paid for this.
Re:Fantastic first impressions (Score:4, Insightful)
With tagging, who needs folders.
Not everyone is down on the semantic labeling concept. Some people like plain old folders. For example my girlfriend switched back instantly from the new Gmail to the old one for that very reason. Now she's stuck with the new Gmail and hates it. Both are available depending on your preference in Outlook.
And who has trouble remembering their email address domain? Seriously?
Obviously he meant easy to remember for other people, not easy to remember for yourself.
And why would I want integration for my email.
I have all of my facebook contacts and their emails instantly available in my contacts list. If I want to email a friend, instead of hopping on facebook to find their email, it's right there. Very convenient.
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Not everyone is down on the semantic labeling concept. Some people like plain old folders. For example my girlfriend switched back instantly from the new Gmail to the old one for that very reason.
I'm confused. Gmail has never had plain old folders. If anything they've improved the interface for people who prefer plain folders (like me) since adding the "Move to" menu in addition to the "Labels" menu.
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Re:Fantastic first impressions (Score:4, Interesting)
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Try using labels as folders through IMAP. You can't. Deleting email actually removes the tag, and a few other unfriendly behaviours. Plus, the "All Mail" folder/label messes up syncronization a lot, since it duplicates all emails (again, through IMAP).
Re:Fantastic first impressions (Score:5, Interesting)
And of course it's your honest opinion, you were most likely paid for this.
Seriously, just get out.
How far we have come where the marketing campaign for a new product of this scale involves paying someone a living wage to "go out to websites like slashdot and pretend to be a real person who is excited about this new project."
Good grief. FacePalm.
There are shills everywhere though... http://plasticmacca.blogspot.com/2012/04/confessions-of-ex-internet-shill.html [blogspot.com]
A google search will reveal many others. This is big business??!??!? I wonder if I could be a paid shill... it would have to be for something I actually liked though. Meh.
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I agree on all but one point you mention: tags.
I have no use for tags. I've a few folders where predefined sieve filters move new emails, and one big massive "Archives" folder, with years as subfolders.
Whenever I need to look for an old email, I just use the search tool. Couldn't get easier than that.
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As honest as opinion as can be bought.
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Re:Fantastic first impressions (Score:4, Insightful)
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When people don't put any useful information in their messages, you don't need to find those messages 2 days later. In fact, you may as well skip reading them the first time, and just file under "Miscellaneous".
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Folders are great. If someone doesn't like them then don't use them.
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The search in Outlook 2007 and 2010 is certainly better than Thunderbird's search, if that says anything.
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It is better in Outlook 2010 but still not as good as GMail. In my case it displays some really odd behavior when I am searching for people's names. It will completely leave out emails that I know are in a given folder and from a particular person. It really does not make any sense.
Now that I think about it, the only real improvement is the search speed. It seems like they are building better indexes. Or maybe they're finally using all 8 cores and 12GB of RAM that I have. The results are still pretty
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What I ended up doing with my emails at work (in Outlook) was to put every old emails into a single folder to be able to use search.
Re:Fantastic first impressions (Score:5, Insightful)
I quickly looked over the new Outlook.com service and I must say I'm quite impressed.
I just looked in the litter box today, and I must say, I'm quite impressed.
Everything is clear
That would be a first for MS! We have Outlook at work (the dedicated email program) and it's the worst email client I've ever used. You have to log into the webmail component to change your email password, the password criteria are different than the mainframe and network password criteria, there are limits to mailbox and message sizes (we never had that BS with Novell's client), and they just, as Microsoft always does, completely changed the webmail interface; they moved "change password" from "Options" to the uper right hand corner, with white on yellow text. What kind of moron designs that sort of idiocy?
it works fast and the UI looks great.
I simply don't believe you. Sometimes it takes hours for an email to get to me from down the damned hall, we never had that problem with Novell and I never saw that problem with any other email system, either.
By the way, which division of Microsoft do you work for? Marketing? Because since they switched to Outlook, I hear nothing but complaints at work.
Outlook.com is also an great domain name and easy to remember.
What is so easy to remember about "outlook" unless you've been using outlook and outlook express for years? Hotmail at least had the name "mail" in in. This change from hotmail to outlook seems utterly retarded to me.
I can't but recommend you to try it!
No fucking way.
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It sounds like you have some pretty major implementation problems at work. Outlook is a long way from perfect, but it's certainly not the worst client I've ever used. I'll take it over GroupWise any day and it gives Thunderbird a run for its money on many fronts.
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Password change - So someone separated the authentication for the email from the LDAP / AD, require additional sign on? What kind of network admins do you have?
Takes hours to receive email - Sounds like a network configuration issue. Either that or the spam filtering is FUBAR. Again, sounds like network configuration. See your admin. File a complaint and get it in the resolution queue.
And make sure you are not working in offline mode.
Oh, and make sure the person down the hall didn't forget to actually send
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You assume it was Redmond with the post, it could very well be a competitor reverse astroturfing.
Microsoft doesn't give two shits about slashdot, nor does any other tech company.
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I work for one of the world's largest software vendors (not MS), and I know our PR/PM/Marketing folks do indeed care about Slashdot. They don't lose a great deal of sleep over it, true, but they are interested in what's said here about our products.
(And no, I don't work for any of those divisions--I'm in development/support.)
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Not quite true. I was at Microsoft 14+ years (ending 2008), and we did indeed read (and talk about) Slashdot. However, the rules not to reply to posts about MS were very strict, and I don't know of anyone who broke them. I actually had permission to post as "MSN Dude" for Microsoft on web search-related sites for a while, but I had to do it openly. So if someone from Microsoft were posting here, I expect that he/she would say so.
Of course, things might have changed . . .
--Greg
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Don't worry, nobody that doesn't pay Microsoft will be able to read your email.
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...or you could just get your own domain name and not worry about the availability of specific addresses ever again.