ReactOS Presented To Russian President Putin 155
An anonymous reader writes "While President Putin was touring the area of Seliger Youth Forum, Marat Karatov demonstrated what can only be described as a fair amount of daring when he called out to the president and requested to present ReactOS to him. Putin agreed, and the project has now presented ReactOS to two successive Russian presidents. Putin responded to the presentation by stating he would think on it."
As long as they don't criticize him (Score:4, Funny)
Well, as long as they don't criticize Putin in any way, they should be fine. Otherwise their OS will be banned and they will be sentenced to 10-20 years in Siberian prison for patent infringement or minor tax fraud.
Just sayin'...
Re:As long as they don't criticize him (Score:5, Funny)
You mean accidentally commit suicide by swallowing rare radioactive isotopes.
statistically speaking... (Score:2)
Hey, statistically speaking...with all the people in Russia and the former soviet bloc, even "rare" isotopes are bound to be swallowed by at least a few people.
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In post-Soviet Russia, operating system boots you!
In post-Soviet Russia, Putin boots you!
*Slaps head* (Score:1)
Why would anyone ever want to clone Windows?
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Why would anyone ever want to clone Windows?
Oh I don't know. How about using a lot of hardware that doesn't do jack shit under linux ?
Especially audio hardware. Not your consumer oriented crap obviously. And video editor suits etc...
And frankly having a windows clone is as good as having a dos clone.
We can replay all those great pc games (that newer generations don't even know because all they get nowadays are shitty console ports of shitty games).
More choice is good, and even better the day my windows programs will not be taken hostage by Microsoft.
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paying 100 euros for a restrictive license is a bit too much. tied to one computer, and over restrictions - remote use is forbidden unless you've strictly got one user running, for one thing. all so that I can play quake 2 and quake 3 based games, etc. again. or even play a doom source port, which does not even runs correctly under linux - a long time bug prevents from using soundfonts with the timidity synthesizer and the default midi is horrendous crap with missing instruments.
I would like a working React
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paying 100 euros for a restrictive license is a bit too much.
So is using software whose goal is to emulate an EOL'd, 12 year old version of Windows, especially when said software has been in alpha for the last decade or so.
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I was possibly a bit harsh-- if you are one of the authors working on ReactOS, I have watched it from afar for a long time, and admire the work done-- getting as far as you have is impressive.
The fact that I dont choose to use it wasnt meant to denigrate the work youve done.
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Why would anyone ever want to clone Windows?
One can't release viruses in open-source if they are based on non-documented API-es... it wouldn't be compliant with DMCA.
(grin)
Independence for Russia (Score:5, Insightful)
It's funny how a lot of people who seem to be American do not seem to get that for a large part of the world the USA is a threat as well as a promise. It's the butt headed attitude that the Roman Empire got into - we are the bringers of civilisation, everybody must love us. Only it turned out that the Goths didn't want it.
Re:Independence for Russia (Score:4, Insightful)
"if this gets completed Russia can be sure that Windows programs can be run in secure environments"
Trying to make a bug-compatible Windows clone is secure? You wind up implementing the same design decisions that Microsoft did that makes Windows an unsecure pile. Don't forget that Windows is a *consumer oriented* operating system and the design compromises show it.
It's funny how a lot of people who seem to be American do not seem to get that for a large part of the world the USA is a threat as well as a promise
If you want an OS that is truly international and not dependent on any one country, you want Linux or *BSD or even Plan9 if you don't want to roll your own. It would be cool if the Russians picked up Plan 9 and ran with it. It's got some really good ideas. Besides that, It's easier to write an OS from scratch than to reverse-engineer Windows. It's not like Russia is lacking in the people with that skillset.
Finally, trying to untie yourself from Microsoft and the US by reverse engineering Windows is self-defeating, isn't it? You remain wedded to whatever design Microsoft comes up in the future and chase that forever.
--
BMO
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I can't believe folks don't remember the Russian Operating System effort. Oh well, that was three years ago:
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/01/23/1450224/russia-to-develop-a-national-operating-system [slashdot.org]
Missed the point (Score:3)
There are a lot of extant programs that don't have *NIX versions and for which the source code isn't available. Let's take Office 2000...please. Let's assume that I am the Russian Government and I have cracked copies of, I don't know, older Photoshop, Office, you name it.
Now someone gives me an OS that runs all those programs but to which I have the source code. Which is easier: to add required new functions to the OS, or to wri
Re:Missed the point (Score:5, Interesting)
There are lots of corporations that are happy with Windows XP, and the only problems with it is the bugs are no longer going to be fixed, and MS will stop selling it.
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Not really. When every new PC comes with a copy of Windows there is no reason to go with ReactOS. The additional license costs for a corporate Windows Pro upgrade are minimal. If one wanted an alternative OS they would just go with Linux.
So on the plus side you save a little money for each PC but you do so at the risk of software compatibility/support, possible legal action from Microsoft, and increased labour costs as now the IT people have to work with more then 1 OS. Small gain, large risk - that'
Let's imagine I'm Vladimir Putin (Score:3)
I really do not think you quite get the commercial environment here.
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Let's take Office 2000...please. Let's assume that I am the Russian Government and I have cracked copies of, I don't know, older Photoshop, Office, you name it.
Now someone gives me an OS that runs all those programs but to which I have the source code
Sure. Wine runs all that old stuff on various other OSes - OSX, Linux, BSD. Faster than Windows does. Heck, it runs WoW faster than Windows does and it does so on already mature operating systems that you don't have to baby to keep from crashing. You don't
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great international team on various projects.
many other countries did this with linux.
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With the current Gnome Shell/Unity trauma, users find the familiar UI of ReactOS Explorer comforting? :)
A president thinking about an OS? (Score:3)
Unbelievable!
Next step: a president taking decisions on programming patterns!
Yeah!
Re:A president thinking about an OS? (Score:5, Funny)
It would sure make negative ads more interesting. "How can he say he's creating manufacturing jobs if he can't even write a factory method!? This man is wrong for our country! You deserve a better President."
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It would sure make negative ads more interesting. "How can he say he's creating manufacturing jobs if he can't even write a factory method!? This man is wrong for our country! You deserve a better President."
He's a politician. He would only be experienced with the singleton and facade patterns.
political bumpersticker (Score:2)
Don't instantiate Romney for the 2013 control function!
So does this thing do really do Windows binaries? (Score:2)
Am I naive to think the problem is so easy to solve? The problem being rampa
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ReactOS isn't just about running .exe's. If that's all you want to do, then WINE is probably what you want (my understanding is that ReactOS and WINE share code to some extent). ReactOS is also able to handle Windows drivers, which WINE cannot handle, allowing for a more complete emulation of Windows.
That said, there's no reason why you couldn't do AppArmor-style security (which is what it sounds like you are describing) on top of something like ReactOS. In fact, there's multiple third-party applications t
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You'd think you could do what Microsoft was too dumb to try and make a sandbox mode where .exe can't touch things it can't.
Sandboxing has existed in Windows since Windows 2000 (see SAFER) and has seen updates in every Windows version since.
One enough? (Score:1)
Isn't one Win*OS enough to cause misery and pain? Why do we need these clones?
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Games and stuff.
Really, that's all that I still use Windows for. I hope the ReactOS guys realise that.
Well thats cool (Score:5, Insightful)
I am quite happy someone wants to clone Windows to the point where a user can't tell that MS Windows has been replaced by ReactOS. Sort of like a Folger's commercial from way back when.
If they ever complete the project and get a viable version of it, then they have produced a version of Windows that can be run by anyone anywhere without violating Microsoft's copyright etc. It might piss of MS but it would mean and end to them pointing out how popular software piracy is based on the number of illegal copies of MS Windows there are out there, particularly in the third world.
It would also open the door to fixing a lot of the problems that MS ignored, and perhaps they are doing this as they develop it for that matter.
I can't see more free software hurting in any way at any rate, and this lets people capitalize on all the useful software they may currently rely on without having to change or learn new things. User's don't seem to like learning new things unless they are trivial to absorb.
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Elegantly designed and HTML5? I don't think that's possible ...
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The problem isn't the "pile of garbage" - which I agree is a fair description of MS Windows in earlier incarnations - its the user base and their reliance on all of the software which is MS Windows based. This would free people from relying on Microsoft over time.
Now, is it better to switch to new tools under a more reliable OS, of course it is. Realistically though, most users - particularly business users - are not going to take the plunge and switch from using software they understand to something new th
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web apps are ass.. they are antithetical to user empowerment.
Impress a dictator day (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think that cozying up to a "president" that is in full swing of turning his country into a plutocrat dictatorship and police state while eliminating all opposition is the kind of publicity you want.
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That's exactly the kind of president that will stand up against the bourgeois imperialist Microsoft.
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A few illustrations of my point:
http://www.technollama.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/open_source_communism.jpg [technollama.co.uk]
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/07/31/ms_ballmer_linux_is_communism/ [theregister.co.uk]
http://designora.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/communist-android.jpg [designora.com]
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NCirDFWL4Q4/TdPQtYogiSI/AAAAAAAAAVs/4bVHzsijPO0/s400/73194-1.png [blogspot.com]
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Beats being in his way and vanishing.
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Meh. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. These guys showed their leader an operating system that can run a lot of Windows software without any worry about backdoor access to the yanks. That's at least a way of ensuring you stay in the good books.
didn't work for bill gates in south park (Score:2)
GENERAL PLYMKIN
Now what's wrong with this thing?
General Plymkin messes with the controls.
GENERAL PLYMKIN
Fucking windows 98!
General Plymkin has pulled the plug. He stands there with
the cord in his hands.
GENERAL PLYMKIN
GET GATES IN HERE!!!
BILL GATES walks in, escorted by two MILITARY GUARDS.
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it is when what you want is funding.
Deja vu? (Score:2, Informative)
Wasn't this from about a year and a half ago, or did it happen again?
It should show up in related stories, but that'd be asking too much.
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It was last September, but Putin was not president then (he was prime minister). As the summary says, this makes two Russian presidents in a row; the previous one was Medvedev. And, by golly, the link to the Medvedev story is in the summary.
cue pouting (Score:3)
Putin responded to the presentation by stating he would think on it.
Awwwwwww, that always means no!
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ReactOS is a non-solution. You are still locked into using non-free Windows software. If you are concerned about backdoors, they may well be inside MS Office and inside Photoshop and inside every other program. Or how about rootkits that can patch a system DLL? Is ReactOS protected from such things if the latest Windows is not?
The correct solution would be to move to Linux because the OS is available in source, and majority of the software that is needed to run the government is also available in open so
ARWINSS (Score:4, Informative)
For anyone that wants to try ReactOS out, I highly recommend the ARWINSS fork, which is a new Win32 subsystem for ReactOS that reuses as much Wine code as possible. The ARWINSS architecture implements APIs exposed via USER32 and GDI32 libraries and is based upon Wine source-code. In my testing the stability and compatibility was much better then the official release. You can find it here:
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/Arwinss [reactos.org]
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It's just bafflest me that anyone would actually want to use a Windows re-implementation. It's just like you choose the worst of both worlds, bad architecture, more bugs and all viruses.
Do you really want an architecture, that is not POSIX, not a Unix, with the drivers letter-soup, where you can't just open a file in multiple applications, that does not offer a package manager, with the worst file manager ever (the explorer).
Why not just use Linux and Wine, so you have the best of two worlds? POSIX, Unix ar
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The Patrician (Score:2)
He would doubtless be flattered... (Score:3)
In Pratchett's books, Vetinari travels the reverse way from, say, the Assads or Stalin. They start as probably quite well meaning and gradually become more paranoid, violent and repressive. Vetinari starts as a repressive ruler of a backward city state and, as it rapidly
Re:Yay? (Score:4, Funny)
It's funny how their site states that all *nix is old crap based on a [sic] 30 year old architecture, whereas ReactOS has been in Alpha state for 16 years and based on a 31 year old architecture.
I guess the best way to deal with ReactOS is to simply IgnoreAndHopeItGoesAwayOS.
p.s. Wine on old crappy *nix has better support for Windows.
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Re:Yay? (Score:5, Funny)
Hey hey ,don't knock VMS! It was relatively simple. Case-in-point (stolen from http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2011/09/04/ancient-vms-vs-unix-joke/ [wordpress.com])
A young scientist has an urgent job to finish, but disastrously the whole departmental network goes down apart from one ancient VAX. He hears there is an old-timer a few corridors away who still knows how to use the VAX, so he rushes down, bursts in, and insists that the old guy shows him what to do, because, you know, sorry, but this deadline is really important.
“Calm down”, says the old guy, “what do you want to know ?”
“Well, ok, for instance, how do I edit a file ?”
” You type EDIT FILENAME”
“Right, fine, suppose I want to make a copy ?”
“You say COPY FILENAME1 FILENAME2
“Err, right, ok, now suppose I need to delete the file ?”
“You say DELETE FILENAME”
“Ah, right, right, err.. now what if I want to print it ?”
“You type PRINT FILENAME”
“But what if I just want to see it typed onscreen ?”
“You say TYPE FILENAME”
“What if I need to figure out what a command does ?”
“You say HELP COMMANDNAME”
“Ummm.. umm. suppose I want to create a new directory ?”
“You use CREATE/DIRECTORY”
“Ok, ok, but look – how the hell am I supposed to remember all that ?”
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You use CREATE/DIRECTORY
What's intuitive about that, especially compared to all the others?
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The problem is figuring out the syntax for the path to your new directory. It's been a while since I last worked on VMS, but IIRC paths looked something like FOO$BAR[BAZ.QUUX.NEENER]WIBBLE:WOBBLE.DIR;42
Really. Although a directory might not have had the semicolon and version number, since directories, as best I can remember, were not versioned. Even for files you didn't have to specify the version if you just wanted the most recent one, which was frequently the case, es
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IgnoreAndHopeItGoesAwayOS not yet implimented
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The "ignore and hope it goes away" mentality is why it has been in development for 16 years and the progress is so slow. The average Windows user doesn't even know what source code is, and the average Linux user seems to have some sort of hate for Microsoft and everything they do. Which means Windows users don't care, and Linux users hiss like a cat at the mention of the project. That leaves a very small amount of people interested in the project, out of which only a handful have the experience to get invol
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Nowadays you don't have to reformat your HDD all the time, just use VMs. I have a Windows XP VM and a Mint VM that I use with Windows 7 as the host.
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Nowadays you don't have to reformat your HDD all the time, just use VMs. I have a Windows XP VM and a Windows 7 VM that I use with openSUSE Linux as the host.
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I have never been able to agree with the ideas of the POSIX design.
What do you dislike about POSIX? A also assume from your post that you prefer the Win32. How do you prefer it?
Re:Yay? (Score:4, Informative)
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Well, fortunately win32 will cease moving on them once XP finishes dying. Vista and up are not win32 based, so they can stop chasing the ball.
Drop Win32? (Score:2)
I really hope they don't. As time goes by it gets harder and harder and harder to run legacy apps on modern operating systems. ReactOS is a godsend for those who just want to keep that one ancient service alive. Having XP finally drop completely out of support will make Win32 support in ReactOS more critical, not less.
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Gpl v2.
Nearly all code is C. C++ is frowned on in their codebase. Assembler only in places it is really, really needed.
They aren't very interested in usermode apps for the OS. Their philosophy is that app makers should target windows instead of ROS, and therefor be useful test programs for improving ROS functionality. They are still fiddling with what's under the hood, and aren't interested in new paintjobs at the moment.
This drives away most of the win32 developer crowd, because outside of redmond, there
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*giggle* Thanks, now I'm imagining a bunch of bearded, birkenstock-wearing nerds rolling around on their backs, high on catnip and batting at string...
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Why are we all beared and wearing birkenstocks? I don't even know what a birkenstock looks like, nor am I blessed with a full beard.
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I never said you were. That's just the image that popped into my head. :)
Who needs drugs when your mind comes up with so many odd notions that any hallucinations would seem normal. ;)
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I had problems with Linux at home too. Recent versions have been getting successively easier to install prop
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I would love to be wrong. I would love for Microsoft to be unable to bother WineHQ and ReactOS because they're completely free to do what they want under fair use terms. But Microsoft isn't going to let a multi-billion
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Patents on Win32 (if there are any) are surely soon to expire. Copyright of APIs is a fail, as we've seen.
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The judge in the Oracle vs. Google case was very careful to state that any decision made was specific to that case and not copyright in general. Plus the judge in the Oracle vs. Google case was an entry level federal judge, so any precedent his court decisions set is relatively easy to overturn on appeal. If for ex
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I wasn't mentioning DOS, which is obviously a different architecture. I was referring to Windows 1, which DOES still have an impact on current Windows.. atleast as much as 40 year old Unix has an impact on current *nix.
Besides, the point was that it's just idiotic to call an OS architecture bad just because it is older.
Perhaps I should have made this point clearer; not all people seem to grasp the subtle concept of sarcasm.
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This page http://www.reactos.org/en/about_history.html [reactos.org] talks about the history of ReactOS. Notice how it starts with "ReactOS project since 1996". Granted, not all of this was under the name ReactOS, but it was the same people. The page states that "In February 1998, ReactOS began.".
16 years is a reasonable number.
Re:Yay? (Score:5, Funny)
Marat however pulled through, taking a bus approximately 2000 kilometers to make it in time...The project would like to thank...Marat for making the day long bus ride back to Seliger
ReactOS is just a cover. The real story here is a bus that doesn't stop every hour so the driver can get out and smoke cigarettes.
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This is Russia we're talking about - the driver likely just chain-smokes while driving.
More likely he was driving while drinking and chain smoking.
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Smoking optional. There was probably an exhaust leak to cater to all your lung-destroying needs.
Re:2000km on a bus!? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not really. Russia is a very, very big country.
Hell, I've seen some bus trips across Turkey into neighbouring countries that'll do 1600km in roughly two days or so. These would be rather short compared to what is probably required in some areas of Russia.
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Australia's pretty big too
Uhm.. Russia goes all the way from Finland to Japan, or from Turkey to Alaska if you wish. It goes almost half circle around the north pole.
To say that Australia is pretty big in that context is like saying that a koala is pretty big when talking about bears.
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To put that in context, Australia is roughly as big (slightly smaller) as the 48 contiguous US states.
Re:2000km on a bus!? (Score:5, Informative)
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Feliks Dzerzhinsky has something to tell you... [youtube.com]
Re:2000km on a bus!? (Score:4, Interesting)
I once took a bus from Seattle to Pittsburgh, about 3500km.
Sitting on a bus for three days, non-stop, was ... not so fun... :(
[Very long-distance trains, by contrast, are actually quite fun, even in the U.S. and Canada where they're pretty slow; rail's great way to travel if you've got some time...]
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That has got to be a typo! :O
In Britain there's a bus service from Inverness to London, taking 12½ hours to travel 900km (the train takes 8 hours, driving a car about 9).
I can't find a much longer journey even if leaving the country (which has at least a 30 minute break while going through the Channel Tunnel). London to Berlin is about 1100km, anything further than that requires a change. However, less-densely-populated continents could easily just change the driving crew.
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A 2000km bus trip in the US is easy, or are you hung up on the km vs mi difference? Heck, a trip of 4000km by bus isn't unusual in the US.
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How far is that in leagues?
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I don't know. I'm still working out the conversion to LoCs end-to-end.
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Russia (Just Russia not the whole of what was the USSR) is the worlds largest country 6,323,482sq miles (USA is 3,537,455)
The USSR was much larger, Kazakhstan one of the ex-Soviet states is the 9th Largest country ...
But Russia only has half the population of the USA ... so they are very spread out ...
Note From New York you can "only" go 4000 km in a straight line and not enter another country (or get to a coast), From Moscow you can go 6500 km inside Russia in a straight line and not enter another country
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Indeed. 2000km is about 1200 miles. Interestingly the trip from Atlanta, Georgia up to Maine is closer to 1800. That's not even the full N/S length of the continental US, and the E/W length is much longer!
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Russian government already thought about it, and after long consultation with the industry techs and the government officials, instead of funding Wine they decided to fund Vodka.
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