Windows 7 Is the Next Windows XP 504
snydeq writes "Windows XP's most beloved factors are also driving business organizations to Windows 7 in the face of Windows 8. 'We love Windows 7: That's the message loud and clear from people this week at the TechMentor Conference held at Microsoft headquarters in Redmond, Wash. With Windows XP reaching end of life for support in April 2014, the plan for most organizations is to upgrade — to Windows 7,' indicating 'a repeat of history for what we've seen with Windows releases, the original-cast Star Trek movie pattern where every other version was beloved and the ones in between decidedly not so.'"
Excellent News! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
You probably won't have to wait long, because Microsoft already has a fall back.
The Windows 7 interface worked acceptably well in early windows 8, even if you had to registry hack it into making an appearance.
I predict this will be their fall back position when they see sales tanking on everything except tablets.
They will flip a switch and presto-change-o the start bar will reappear.
People are not going to be reaching across their keyboards to smudge their screen on anything except tablets.
Its not going to happen.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing to consider is that for a large company every major upgrade of the user interface causes a lot of costs while people are learning the new features and how to find how to do it when their old familiar features has disappeared. I'm still annoyed by a few things in the new Office UI.
And the statistics Microsoft has collected saying for example that the Start button could go away - I don't think that they have realized that the statistics they got is skewed since many advanced users and company admins intentionally unticks the checkbox allowing Microsoft to collect data about your usage. That leaves them with statistics from a large number of home users that are more or less computer illiterate.
So if you look at how a moron works and design your tools after that then you will make tools for morons. But then you are actually a moron yourself.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
That leaves them with statistics from a large number of home users that are more or less computer illiterate.
Which is the group they are bleeding right now. That's who Windows 8 is aimed at, not losing that group.
Conversely the "computer literate" are (by numbers) the ones that have the strongest ties to Windows and Windows software. They are the ones who just stay put on Windows 7 for another 5 years or so while Microsoft works through the transition. They are the ones that once Metro apps and Metro hardware become widely available and heavily used switch. They are also the ones who while the most upset about UI changes, are the most able to adapt if they have to.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not about "Metro Apps" and "Metro Hardware" it's about usability and basic ergonomics.
It is simply too much of a PITA for ANYONE, business or home users, to use the Metro interface on a desktop or laptop, even IF they have a touchscreen. (FSM help you if you don't have a touchscreen!) The UI concepts DO NOT WORK with those form factors. And while many people are enjoying tablets and smartphones, there is still a great need for the more traditional form factors if you are doing anything other than multimedia or web consumption.
The "Desktop PC" paradigm in business is not going away any time soon. It is a well known and understood style and ergonomically works very very well. Metro just doesn't work in that paradigm.
I anticipate that we will see Metro and the touchscreen UI concept for Desktops go by the wayside within two years. Win8 will get patched to remove the Metro UI (With Metro Apps running in non-fullscreen windows instead) the Start button and Start menu will return and that will be the end of this abortive experiment in "blended" UIs.
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It's not about "Metro Apps" and "Metro Hardware"
Actually it is. Don't dismiss those issues.
The UI concepts DO NOT WORK with those form factors. And while many people are enjoying tablets and smartphones, there is still a great need for the more traditional form factors if you are doing anything other than multimedia or web consumption.
Probably. What Microsoft wants to ensure though is that this is at the application mode level and so only that mode within the application requires those form factors.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Informative)
If you collect statistics, then you need to make sure that the sample you are collecting is representative of the population. Otherwise your statistics are invalid. This is basic statistics (and something to keep in mind for poller "Internet Panels" that try to measure anything to do with the general population rather than the Internet using population).
If your sample isn't representative of the population then you need to adjust your results by weighing so that your sample statistics correspond closer to those in the population. Now, maybe Microsoft tried to do something like that but, since there isn't any kind of baseline questionaire when you agree to let them get feedback, it would be pretty difficult for them to establish weighing categories for the sample that can be adjusted to match corresponding category proportions in the Windows user population.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Excellent News! (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't care if they collected statistics on every single Windows user in the US. It wouldn't matter - the premise presented by the statistics which say "people don't use the Start Menu" is invalid.
It doesn't matter if 99% of the population doesn't use it 99% of the time. It's there, and it has a utility. There is still 1 out of 100 people who use it frequently, and the 99% still use it on occasion.
Case in point: I am a keyboard junkie. Windows is a 'toy' OS for me; I run games on it and run it in VMs for the purpose of work applications. I don't uncheck the 'statistics' button (though maybe I should) when doing an install. Yet, I don't think I use the 'start' bar but once or twice a day, if that. I'll hit 'start' and type what I want, and that's the extent of it. Otherwise, the file manager, etc. will remain open at all times for days on end.
What I don't use is the Desktop. But it doesn't matter, because some people do. That's the beauty of a well designed desktop environment - people use it differently. It's why KDE is popular, and it's why
Microsoft should take Windows 9x-XP as a clue. Yes, its basic operation was the only game in town for over a decade: start menu, task bar, task switcher, desktop, 3 buttons at the top of each window, multiple paths to the same functionality with no more than ~3 clicks to any single feature. They completely abandoned that concept, even though it's got to be the most heavily emulated UI out there. They threw that all to the wind with Windows 8, which isn't familiar or comfortable to anyone.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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>>>you still can't get most people to even think of taking Vista on a bet
Absolutely right. That's why they changed the NT version number from 6.0 to 6.1 and renamed Vista to Windows Mohave'..... ooops I mean..... Seven.
I probably would have liked Vista if Microsoft had said minimum RAM was 1 gigabyte. But no they said 512 megabyte instead, which is what my brother's computer came with by default, and so it ran horribly.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Interesting)
Which was one of Microsoft's biggest mistakes. They backed down from the original requirements for Longhorn (which 2g BTW). They cut them again because the OEM's were concerned about a falloff in sales. So they had "Certified for Windows Vista" and "Works with Windows Vista" which was a disaster. Hopefully they don't make the same mistake with 8, though it seems like they are going to.
If Microsoft just announced that capacitive touchscreen or high end trackpad (min) was required for Windows 8 a lot of the complaints about hardware would go away. By pretending that Windows-8 is going to work well on traditional hardware Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Interesting)
And you hit a key point. XP worked and does work. It worked from the beginning. Vista was crippled by know it all GUI designers who choked on their own fumes because they had their heads up their asses too long when designing things like UAC. Anyway, does it work or not? That is the number one point for business. If it works it wins. If you have two competing pieces, say Windows XP and Apple whatever, it doesn't matter how cool one or the other is (according to fans), to business it matters if it works. And once that is settled, the cheaper of the two wins.
A lot of people like to cut up Windows but the fact is, it does work solidly. And for a competitive price. It can't crash and get fucked up as bad as some say (at least not in offices/businesses, and not in a way that impacts the bottom line too badly), otherwise businesses would get rid of it. No, paying to have someone to blame is not the reason. Having someone to blame doesn't bring money in. Having working equipment does. Having someone you pay who is accountable and who won't get paid again if they don't solve problems does help make money. Getting something for free and not ever being sure something will be fixed doesn't make money. Paying 4 times what you need to pay on the cool product is a loser too. Especially once enough of the cool products sell to be a profitable target for malware makers.
No, Windows XP isn't really sexy, but it works, and it runs business software like no tomorrow. Windows 7 works even better. And as far as that goes, I thought Window 2K worked pretty damned good too. Now they hired the same hycrapsia victims to design the interface for 8 as they did for Vista. Hey, we can't use some retarded UAC to make people insane, let's dumb it down so we (the GUI designers) might be able to use it; who cares if the rest of the world aren't as stupid as us? Ah, marketing + graphic artist + pop psychology courses makes GUI designer from hell. They need to get interface designers who understand the real world and not just some abstract thing they got from university and inward focused "industry conferences". And as a bonus they should fire the president. The place has done nothing but go downhill since he took over. Ballmer not Oballmer.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Informative)
XP did not 'work' from the beginning. It wasnt until SP2 it was a respectable and stable OS and even then SP3 smoothed it more. XP taught me to image the drive right after main install finishes because drivers could completely bork the install and you'd be back at square one. . There is still a ton of cruft left in my workflow because of how shitty XP was in the beginning.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
XP worked and does work. It worked from the beginning.
Oh boy. No, it didn't. At the release it was just a bloated, slightly more unstable version of Windows 2000. However the biggest problem was the malware explosion, and Service Pack 2 finally got things at a sane level.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:4, Insightful)
And the Windows Server 2012 operating system also has the Metro interface, although once you are logged in it is straight to a command-line interface, but why does a server OS need a fancy GUI for logging in?
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But starting over with a new name was the easier way to fix the damaged reputation of Windows.
And to get them to pay for the "service pack"
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You don't think you can click on those parts of the screen with a mouse pointer if you have an input device? You think MS is going to alientate 99% of the population whose desktop or laptop doesn't have a touch screen. I think the touch screen part of your comment is off base. But I agree that they will likely flip the switch after enough people flip them the bird. The fact that it is butt fucking ugly and a pain in the ass to use because the ergonomics of using something built for the small screen doesn't
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
The mistake is not in the numbers of the devices "in the market."
The mistake is putting the devices in the same market in the first place.
Tablets and Desktop PCs simply fill a different role in computing. Tablets barely do anything useful at all as it is, until they've got a whole fucking lot more packed into them than they will in the foreseeable future anyway.
Aside from a few specialty purposes, people DONT WANT to be finger fucking their screens all the time. If you think repetitive stress injuries are an issue with mice and keyboards, just wait until all the fat ladies in HR are getting surgery to fix rotator cuffs from reaching a screen all the time.
The "PC is dead" prediction has been said a million times, and it's been wrong for every single one of those times.
Yes, Microsoft needs to have a tablet OS, but they also need a desktop computer OS. It's particularly stupid to drop the desktop branch at a time when FOS software is hiding in the corner waiting to take advantage of things.
Especially in an environment where MAJOR industries are lagging far behind in the OS upgrade loop. Really, it's 5 maybe 6 years long, releasing a new OS every 3 years is going to cause corporate users to skip OSs. As a web developer, I constantly run into SuzyMcMarketing clients who has windows XP installed with the default blue theme (ick!) and is using IE8. These companies are not going to upgrade for no reason. (They might, but the ones that have moved to Win7 just got done or are still doing it sure as fuck won't, especially if they just bought all new dual-screen hardware.. The IT folks in those companies are going to go "who's going to pay for that?" or simply say "fuck you" when someone brings up moving to Win 8.)
Vista was the last one skipped, and Win 8 is going to be the next one. That's all there is to it.
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In terms of corporations they should skip Windows 8 for a few years. Windows 8 is aimed at consumer. Windows 7 is an excellent enterprise OS.
In terms of PC is dead.... The data is clear
1) Levels of PC literacy among the young have been dropping sharply for a decade.
2) Percentage of households with a traditional PC are down almost 16%
3) PC replacement cycle is up from about 2-3 years to 5-7 years and still increasing.
4) Software replacement cycles are now increasing with fewer people willing to pay fo
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Informative)
It's not like you have to wait for Microsoft. The already is an an open source shell [sourceforge.net] the emulates the old Windows behaviour.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:4, Insightful)
I predict this will be their fall back position when they see sales tanking on everything except tablets.
Microsoft won't see Windows 8 sales tanking. Once Windows 8 is released, Volume License customers won't have the option to buy Windows 7 licenses, only Windows 8 licenses. Volume Licenses come with downgrade rights so customers will be installing Windows 7, but Microsoft will be reporting Windows 8 sales.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, yes.
The reason large touch screens are not cheaper is because it is a relatively rarely-wanted feature. It just isn't useful in the cases of most desktops and large screen deployments.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Funny)
Monitor is about 3-4 feet away from me.
You have more than 2 feet???
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Funny)
Monitor is about 3-4 feet away from me.
You have more than 2 feet???
He clearly said that his monitor is -1 feet away.
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The problem with a separate wacom tablet is that you're working on an abstraction. My lady who is a more traditional (on paper) artist hates them. She now has a Fujitsu T900 and finds that to be usable, though, since you work right on the display. Cintiq is fairly awesome, but it costs more than a whole goddamn laptop with a wacom combo digitizer/multitouch and an i7...
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
'We love Windows 7:
Somehow they forget to add compared to Windows 8
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
Compared to other Windows, Windows 7 has been great. Compared to Linux...well, let's not pick on MS, they've made great, if not entirely monotonic progress. They may yet produce an OS I would use of my own free will, rather than being forced into it.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
If Microsoft continued supporting Windows XP, those business would continue running Windows XP. No need to spend time and money to retrain staff, no need to change anything. Not every industry is like the IT industry.
Microsoft on the other hand NEEDS to keep moving the "goal posts", they need to change things (but not too much). Why? Because if they kept the goal posts stationary for too long someone could come up with a "Windows XP" compatible OS (you can see some already trying with ReactOS, I doubt they'll succeed but Microsoft really has to move).
If there are viable "Windows compatible" operating systems, Windows would end up like the IBM PC BIOS, with competing BIOS software. And BIOS manufacturers don't make enough money to make Microsoft shareholders, bosses, employees happy.
Most people don't know what BIOS they run, nor do they need to. To them the different BIOS all work the same and they just focus on using their applications.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
Sysadmin here:
We've migrated about 50 users (salesforce, most are aged 40 to 60) to Win7 from XP about 2 months ago. Here's what's happening for us:
* No major problems adjusting to Win7 (I've had a couple of quick questions, that's it).
* Running users as standard users is almost viable (we're having a lot of pain and suffering from all the crapware we have to install (Adobe Flash, Reader, Shockwave; Quicktime, iTunes; Java; etc, etc) -- almost everything on this list wants admin rights to update itself). Users can't install much or tweak much, so much less user-induced OS failure/slowness/malware. We're trialling SCCM for this, so we'll see...
* Win7 seems less prone to malware infection. I doubt it's anywhere near secure, but it's already doing a lot better than XP. (I'm forced to use Symantec for AV, which is about as much protection as a pincushion condom.)
* Device drivers for modern PCs on XP is a royal pain; Win7 is ok for now (a couple of bad device drivers for Win7 x64, but much better than XP x64 and good enough for use), and updating device drivers from Windows Update works about half the time.
* Imaging tools are much nicer.
* Sleep and hibernate seem to be more reliable. XP would fail to resume 1 in every 200 resumes or so.
So for us, Win7 is a major step up -- it isn't that it's good so much as it sucks much less than XP (which sucked much less than 98, etc.). Furthermore, ReactOS (last I checked) is far, far, far away from being a viable replacement. MS could sit still for 5 to 10 years and ReactOS would still be far away. Give those guys several more good programmers and the story might be different...
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Informative)
Sysadmin here:
* No major problems adjusting to Win7 after I set the theme to Windows Classic. Running it with all the bells and whistles confuses people.
* Running users as standard users is still the same pain in the neck. Running users as administrators and it will still ask you to click through a bunch of crap which pops up EVERYWHERE. However some applications don't request elevated rights but still need it (Java-based programs for instance) and as a result they simply crash with no message whatsoever.
* Users are still dumb and will click everything. I simply wipe the system if a malware infection occurs but I don't see a big difference in rate.
* Device drivers for Win7 is a pain in the neck with the signing and the x64/32-bit. I have to hack in certain drivers and some manufacturers still haven't released a driver and XP drivers although they use the same model and similar kernel simply can't be used for some reason.
* I never had much use of the MS imaging tools
* Unless you have bog-standard hardware sleep and hibernate still doesn't work reliably and for some reason laptops keep waking up when closed.
Other issues:
* Have an external PCIe card? Won't even hot plug. Needs a full reboot.
* The MS high-res timer drivers are crap on Windows 7 and software can't take exclusive control over them
* Video card retrace signals are horribly inaccurate and software can't take exclusive control over them
* Want to set a system with 120Hz or higher refresh rate? We'll also encrypt that signal for you with HDCP even though no content is playing back and screw up your whole custom DVI-D setup
* Very slow SMB copy (20MBps where it should be 120MBps). Teracopy (3rd party software) solves the issue.
* Still no native NFS/LDAP/Kerberos support
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Informative)
Still no native NFS/LDAP/Kerberos support
It's called Active Directory.
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* Device drivers for Win7 is a pain in the neck with the signing and the x64/32-bit. I have to hack in certain drivers and some manufacturers still haven't released a driver and XP drivers although they use the same model and similar kernel simply can't be used for some reason.
This is funny because Win7 drivers have been lengendary for me. Stable and spot on, even for that webcam that's like 15 years old.
Re:Driver support ? (Score:4)
If you buy only compatible systems (what is EASY to do in an enterprise), yes, driver support is far superior on Linux.
In fact, "far" doesn't do justice to it. The difference is astronomical.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:4, Insightful)
Crap, when are you people from. We have been using 7 for two years already across several thousand machines. It is better with security, drivers, self repair, imaging and manageability. With GPO setup on a server you can tweak the newer UI to your liking without needing to roll back to Windows 95 mode.
Shifting is not that hard, letting the users stagnate just makes things sores when you are forced to switch because you can't get C64 keyboards anymore.
The same things happened when XP came out, pre SP1 GPO sucked and had all sorts of issues just like Vista and 7. Everyone has selective memories and just want to burry their heads and keep driving their Model Ts.
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You should try ninite pro. You can create a login script or a scheduled task in activate directory for all your machines that will wake up every day or two and run ninite pro. This will then check all of the following and make sure it's updated to the latest version...all in the background without any user interaction or admin rights required:
* All major 3rd party browsers (Chrome, Safari, Firefox and Opera)
* All major IM apps (Skype, Pidgin, AIM, Yahoo, Google Talk, etc.)
* All major media apps (iTunes, V
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XP 64 kicked ass as long as you didn't want to: print, plug in anything that wasn't a keyboard or mouse, play any music on it, upgrade any hardware, use a good video card, play games.
For doing big, memory intensive stuff it was great. It was also stable as hell. But, in an office, you sorta kinda gotta print once in a while.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Interesting)
Did anybody else feel the "FUD" when XP was announced? It's evil, your software won't run on it, it will have stronger DRM than 98, etc. etc. etc.
I remember the same thing when Vista was announced, and now 8 is coming and they're playing it up as the big new scary OS.
I think it's a short-term ploy to drive sales of systems with the old OS "while you can still get it" without a downgrade charge.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows 8 isn't big and scary. It's just horridly designed.
The issues with the bootloader are one problem, that might pose a problem for linux, but are actually a relatively small part of what is problem with windows 8, because windows 8 is a badly designed mess.
A good overview of some of what is wrong with it http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/why-i-m-uninstalling-windows-8
This isn't a DRM issue, a compatibility issue (although there is some of that), it's not even particularly evil, at least not any more than anything else MS does. It's that it's a nightmare to use because the design is wildly inconsistent for no apparent reason, and it doesn't seem to actually get you anything for that. If you want to use 10 GB of my RAM that's fine if I actually get something out of it, if you're going to change how to shut down the machine, or how apps work etc. it's just unnecessarily confusing.
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Interesting)
Windows 8 isn't big and scary. It's just horridly designed.
The issues with the bootloader are one problem, that might pose a problem for linux, but are actually a relatively small part of what is problem with windows 8, because windows 8 is a badly designed mess.
A good overview of some of what is wrong with it http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/why-i-m-uninstalling-windows-8 [slashdot.org]
This isn't a DRM issue, a compatibility issue (although there is some of that), it's not even particularly evil, at least not any more than anything else MS does. It's that it's a nightmare to use because the design is wildly inconsistent for no apparent reason, and it doesn't seem to actually get you anything for that. If you want to use 10 GB of my RAM that's fine if I actually get something out of it, if you're going to change how to shut down the machine, or how apps work etc. it's just unnecessarily confusing.
The article you linked is not a good overview of what is wrong with Windows 8. It's an overview of what is wrong with Metro. What I've learned in my toying with the betas and my week having RTM installed on my home desktop/gaming computer is that you really can ignore Metro. The desktop is not "an app for Metro". Metro works more like an overlay. The only time I ever see it is when I bring up the "start" menu. The new start menu exists in the Metro overlay but when properly set up isn't all that bad. The problem is with the default layout. It is covered in shitty metro apps. You can uninstall all of them however and pin any and all of your favorite shortcuts. If you need to see the shortcuts that your desktop apps install into the old Windows 95 Start Menu hierarchy you can right click then click all apps. You can of course always type in a search too as in Vista/7.
So do Metro and the default presentation of Windows 8 suck total ass? You bet, but if you can get over your new giant customizable start menu(and the time spent setting up) Windows 8 is quite the improvement over Windows 7.
The new File Explorer or Explorer.exe is really great. The ribbon is hidden by default but is there quickly when you want to do things like show hidden files that used to require digging through control panel options. I also really like the quick access to administrator features that pops up when you right click the start button(or what is now the bottom left-hand pixel). MS needs to make that as easy to edit as the start menu. There are built in ISO mounting and burning tools. There are many other little improvements made to the desktop experience. Though I will admit that shutting down is also a little wonky as you need to put the mouse in the lower right corner then then click on settings and shut down. That's the only time I need to use the weird overlay activated in by that corner and all it does is pop up 5 little icons along the right-hand screen edge.
The biggest disappointment for me in Windows 8 so far has actually been Client Hyper-V. I was really looking forward to this feature and still hope to use it in the future but when the hypervisor is installed my 3D gaming performance takes an fps hit. Most games were still pretty playable but having Quake Live's fps dip down into the 60s is unacceptable. Complaining about 60 fps in a game probably sounds unreasonable to most of you but if you know the Quake 3 and Quake Live engines you understand. Games do run great without the hypervisor in the way though. Hopefully MS can eventually optimize their tech or more likely future/faster hardware will take care of it.
So yeah take my Slashdot card away, because even though I do hate Metro and agree it has no place on the desktop. I really am digging Windows 8 in spite of that.
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I'm not sure what you're talking about with the 10GB of RAM. I have 12GB and the OS never uses more than 2 of it.
Currently windows is using 8GB of my 12, presumably it has cached some parts of diablo 3 and saints row the third as I was just using those, and presumably then they will load faster.
I grant, I wasn't clear what I was getting at. Chrome uses a boatload of memory in exchange for speed, so fine, it's a deliberate tradeoff, that's why the memory is there. Using memory because you're a bad programmer or just allocating yourself memory in case you might want to use it, or you have memory leaks or whatever is n
Re:Excellent News! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Excellent News! (Score:5, Informative)
Erm... no.
On windows you actually set the behaviour of the power button (power options under control panel, edit a plan settings, then advanced settings, power button and lid options). By default I believe a 4 second press just hard reboots the computer and that's outside of the OS, but the power button will variously be configured to hibernate, sleep or shut down the machine.
Now if you're not exceptionally savvy on the difference you may not realize when it has hibernated versus slept or the like, but they aren't the same thing, and that's sort of the point, your 4 options (shut down, sleep, hibernate, restart) should all be in the same place, and you shouldn't need to do a google or bing search to find out how to do so.
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By default I believe a 4 second press just hard reboots the computer and that's outside of the OS
I think it's 5 seconds and it's definitely a hard shutdown, not a hard reboot. If you want your computer to boot again, you must press the power button again (ideally after waiting a few seconds to let everything spin down before spinning it back up). In fact, that's the only time I use the power button - if I have a responsive GUI or CLI then I prefer shutting it down with the keyboard/mouse.
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The power button on my box is so deep under the table I can't even reach it. Should I put my new shiny box into the prime space on my desk just so I can access the button? That's what I did in 1990's - is the old new again?
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Re:Excellent News! (Score:4, Informative)
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Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Does the OS really matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
At work I run 2 applications on Windows: A web browser (Chrome),and the MS Office Suite (Outlook, Word, and Excel (in that order). If Office was available on Linux, I'd be perfectly happy on Linux.
I really don't care what the underlying operating system is, as long as it stays out of my way (and it sounds like the new Win8 UI might be annoying).
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^implying running any of that on a Mac would improve the situation
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I call BS. 1. You can run all that on a Mac (the only Office apps not available are Project and Visio). 2. You could also ditch whatever you are using for a Chrome Book or similar, but I doubt you would because you know you play solitaire like crazy and wont give up all the other nice things Windows has to offer other than a thin client running a browser and office.
Call bullshit on what? That I run Microsoft apps on Windows? If I'm going to move to a different OS I'd rather move to Linux than OSX.
How would a Chromebook help me? Can I run MS Office on a Chromebook?
Re:Does the OS really matter? (Score:4, Insightful)
I believe he's calling bullshit on this comment made in your original post:
I really don't care what the underlying operating system is...
You appear to not care what the underlying OS is so long as it's Windows or Linux. If you truly didn't care then you'd consider using OSX as equally as you've considered moving to Linux or remaining with Windows.
Re:Does the OS really matter? (Score:5, Informative)
I have, and for my work its too limited while fucking up every office 2007-2010 format ever sent to me
yay its free, now all I have to do is reformat every table in this 30 page document of tables cause nothing fits on a printed page anymore yay!
its fine for home use
Re:Does the OS really matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what's hilarious? The fact that MS Office documents often don't open correctly even between different revisions of MS Office.
So, you're fucked either way, but in one case, you are fucked for free and in the other it's $499 to get fucked.
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If Office was available on Linux, I'd be perfectly happy on Linux.
Have you tried LibreOffice?
I can't even use the expense report template without MS Office.
I use LibreOffice at home, but it is a complete non-starter at the office.
No surprise (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, Windows 8 isn't even out out. It's not surprising that businesses are going to most likely migrate to Windows 7 first. From an administrative perspective, most admins already know how to deal with all the Windows 7 nuances.
Windows 8 is a bit of a black box right now, especially from an admin perspective. I suspect it'll probably be a couple of years before Windows 8 becomes more mainstream in corporate environments.
From a personal perspective... I plan on upgrading to 8 as soon as it's out. For $40 bucks (for a 7 - 8 upgrade), I don't see why not. As a developer, it's compelling to easily transition your desktop app to tablet (and vice versa).
Best Windows 8 Review Ever (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Best Windows 8 Review Ever (Score:5, Insightful)
I love the people screaming about not knowing how to use the OS ... isnt that the whole point of these things, all you need is your finger and an idea?
"you dont know about alt+tab"
well guys, if I am going to operate the basic functions of my computer via keyboard, why the fuck do I even need a GUI or even a mouse? I am quite happy with sitting there with one thing per screen and using alt+Fx to switch tween applications,it runs a hell of a lot faster and I can still jump between programs without having to hit alt tab 6 times to jump from app 1 to app 6.
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just as an aside, you can switch directly to apps by hitting windows key + # to switch directly to an app (organized by the location on the taskbar), and can alternate between apps grouped that way by repeatedly hitting that combination.
I'd like Win 7 a bit more .. (Score:3, Informative)
If only I could get rid of many of the most annoying features, like those damn pop-up previews along the task bar - f**king hell those are annoying.
I try to get it to look as plain as possible, I don't go for whizzy aero/glass/whatever looks. I just want things to work, because I'm often stressed and whizzy gets on my nerves.
Re:I'd like Win 7 a bit more .. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I'd like Win 7 a bit more .. (Score:5, Informative)
You can get your individual taskbar buttons back but selecting the "Combine when task is full" or "Never combine" option in Taskbar properties.
Disabling the preview popup requires a registry or group policy setting. Google it.
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How about disabling the taskbar popping up when you mouse over it (pops up only when the windows key is pressed, like you could in XP)? I've googled that, but all I seem to find is half-baked shareware my admins wont let anywhere near our network.
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Heh, amusing. "Windows Previews" is one of the plugins I turn ON in Compiz, mostly because it makes life seems less foreign when I'm in Linux.
This has to be intentional (Score:5, Insightful)
At first, I thought it was just a silly conspiracy theory that they released an intentionally crappy OS every other cycle, but I'm really starting to think they do it on purpose:
1) Release good OS with an expected lifespan of around 4 years
2) At 2 years release crappy OS. The people that bought the OS at 1) are not going to upgrade. All of the people purchasing new computers have no choice but to buy crap. While OS sales take a dip, it's not unmanageable.
3) Release good OS. People from 1) now upgrade, and people from 2) are desperate to get off the turd they bought. Money now pours in.
4) See 2.
Re:This has to be intentional (Score:5, Interesting)
At first, I thought it was just a silly conspiracy theory that they released an intentionally crappy OS every other cycle, but I'm really starting to think they do it on purpose
On purpose - probably yes. Sinister plan - rather not.
Every other version is pushing boundaries, taking chances, kind of like KDE 4.0 or Gnome 3.0. Then MS learns what did not work and releases a polished version. So you have Win 2000 followed by XP, then an ambitious failure of Vista followed by Win7. Now it is time for another push with Win8 and ideas tested with it will return in usable form with Win9.
So "stable" versions provide income while "experimental" versions provide UAT.
The plan is to upgrade — to ReactOS (Score:2, Informative)
Providing they actually reach beta status by April 2014.
Re:The plan is to upgrade — to ReactOS (Score:5, Informative)
I've watched that project for years. Here is the main reasons for the slow progress:
1) "why not just use WINE on linux!? OMG WTF BBQ!!"
Perhaps the people who constantly stream into the ROS IRC channel asking that question could take 30 seconds and read the *FAQ* which clearly states why. No, they have to be a fanboi, waste people's time, and demoralize developers asking repitious qestions, and generally being assholes and transferring anti microsoft fud onto a foss project. *IF* they had bothered to do so, they would know that ROS and WINE share patches. But because they didn't, they don't, and just spew inane nonsense.
2) "Like, LOLZERS, your project is like, emulating 9x or something right?"
No. It reimplements the NT kernel and win32 usermode architectures. It is actually closer to 3 projects rolled into one: an NTLDR compliant boot loader (FreeLDR), a reimplementation of the NT kernel space, and a reimplementation of the windows GUI subsystem that even works on windows as a shell replacement. Most FOSS projects deal with just ONE of those things. (GRUB for boot loading, Linux Kernel, and various WM flavors like Gnome, KDE, and pals.) Reactos has FAR fewer developers than all of those.
3) "bland ordinary C is a REQUIREMENT!? What? I can't use C++, Java, Ruby, Python, or $languageHere!? What are you, a bunch of philistines!?"
Reactos uses only standardized C. It does this for a wide assortment of reasons, including having to implement pretty much everything from the ground up, including SEH, and a number of other things. It has to run quickly, leanly, and efficiently on bare metal, because they are also writing kernel mode components. High leve languages carry too much baggage, or make improper assumptions and aren't suitable. Sorry. If you want to use your high level language to right win32 usermode applications using the published api, feel free. But ROS won't include it in the package.
4) "Dude, NOBODY in the FOSS world knows all the ins and outs of MS's platforms! We use FOSS software for a reason, you know!"
Yeah. They pretty much know that already. Why do you think they have such a shortage of developers? They don't need to be reminded of that. They are trying to change that by making an OPEN reimplementation of windows, including the kernel space. You know, so you have more choices than just the BSD kernel and the Linux kernel. You could be more constructive and maybe help them instead of snipe crass comments or something.
5) "Isn't MS windows a moving target?"
Yes. Yes it is. However, a *lot* of "features" in microsofts offerings are probably best left out anyway. They are focusing on core functionalities. That's a significantly easier target.
force feeding (Score:2, Insightful)
can you still change the default shell? (Score:4, Interesting)
You used to be able to set a new default shell using a registry setting, way back in the days of yore.
Can you still do that, or has MS removed that ability?
It might be worth an experiment to place the win7 explorer.exe in a protected folder on a win8 machine, and then set it as the default shell. That should neuter metro.
I might pull the msdn evaluation copy and see if I can do that.
Time for Linux... again? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the third time I've seen in recent history where Linux has the potential to provide an alternative to corporate and consumer use.
The first was when Vista came out - I was hearing people clamor that this disaster of an operating system was going to be the catalyst that would result in the rise of Linux on the business/mainstream desktop. But in the end people stuck with XP and Microsoft neutered any sitting-on-the-fence debate with Windows 7. So we failed.
Then netbooks started to become popular, and I was hearing people clamor that this was a perfect case for Linux on these low-powered devices, and once again it would rise the profile of Linux on user-facing systems. But initial netbooks were released with really shitty distros that were often half-broken and given first impressions matter, these distros did a really poor job of selling Linux. Microsoft was forced to extend XP though as Vista wouldn't work suitably on netbooks, but as far as users were concerned this was great news compared to regular preinstalled Linux distros, and now modern netbooks run Windows 7 just fine. So we failed again.
Now Windows 8 is out, and we have an opportunity to push the best desktop-focused distros that are out there. A third window of opportunity - will the various Linux interest groups fumble again? If history has shown us anything - probably. I'd like to be optimistic, but if Linux market share doesn't increase noticeably within the next year or two then I think it's obvious that there will NEVER be a Linux on the desktop moment.
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This is the third time I've seen in recent history where Linux has the potential to provide an alternative to corporate and consumer use.
And how many people are using Android devices now? Linux might have fumbled on the Desk/laptop, but it's flourishing on mobile/tablet. If there's even going to be a Linux on the desktop "moment", it will probably grow out of the increasing brand-awareness of Android. Linux will stop being the "weird computer geek thing" and start being "the Android OS". That, possibly combined with a Microsoft miss-step,might be enough for them to give it a try on their desktop. Then it's all up Linux's actual performance.
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A common misconception. OSX is the FreeBSD kernel, not the Linux kernel.
Related, cousins maybe, but not "a form of linux."
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A common misconception. Mac OS X's kernel (XNU) is based on Mach and the FreeBSD kernel (among other things). Can I have my pedantry mod?
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What are your options if you want the lastest Windows OS but don't like the interface formerly known as Metro?
Windows has always allowed for skinning. Anyone who could handle Linux will be able to reskin Windows 8 and replace the UI. For example take a look at http://www.stardock.com/ [stardock.com]
The best thing Windows 8 has going for it... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Apple went from 2% of the desktop marketshare to 12% now in the USA. Apple went from losing money on desktop to making almost all the hardware profits in the industry, over 90%. And Apple's share among computers over $1000k reached as high as 90% 3 years ago (though has since fallen).
Cat Analogy (Score:5, Funny)
Without thinking, I simply replied, "Dinner."
Why is Windows 2000 So Disliked? (Score:3)
Re:Win8 is just Win7 SP2 (Score:5, Funny)
Win 8 is an improvement over an already excellent Win7 with lots of cool new features. I'm running RTM Enterprise on a Dell E6520 laptop, and it's flawless. 5 minutes of training - some new shortcut keys, and I'm more productive than before.
I don't suppose those five minutes of training occurred in a conference room in Redmond, by any chance?
Re:Win8 is just Win7 SP2 (Score:5, Insightful)
Win 8 is an improvement over an already excellent Win7 with lots of cool new features. I'm running RTM Enterprise on a Dell E6520 laptop, and it's flawless. 5 minutes of training - some new shortcut keys, and I'm more productive than before.
I don't suppose those five minutes of training occurred in a conference room in Redmond, by any chance?
I'm just wondering how many of those 5 minutes were spent ducking flying chairs.
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I'm running RTM Enterprise on a Dell E6520 laptop, and it's flawless.
Flawless? OK please tell me the flawless way to do the following without resorting to the CLI: http://www.windows7hacker.com/index.php/2012/08/how-to-change-windows-8-product-key-to-complete-activation/ [windows7hacker.com]
I installed the Windows 8 Enterprise Edition, and apparently the install wizard never asked me for the activation key.
I couldn't find a UI that allows me to change or even enter my activation key. Time for a "hack" to activate Windows 8.
First, you need to go to the Start screen type "cmd" and right click. Make sure you choose run as "Administrator" from the bottom options.
Re:Win8 is just Win7 SP2 (Score:4, Insightful)
Who cares? What tiny percentage of the population would need to change their activation key that doesn't know how to do it from a CLI?
I've seen this argument from others, and it's completely moronic. It's something you do *ONCE* in the lifetime of the computer. There is no reason to build a UI for it.
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Win 8 is an improvement over an already excellent Win7 with lots of cool new features
Okaaaay..
I was very apprehensive about loosing the start menu search function
Obviously a grammar checker isn't one of those new features.....
Common now, here is a better review. (Score:3, Funny)
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Why? I like it. I've not had any issues. Runs great, lets me get my work done and let's me do what I want to do and run apps I want - isn't that all OS's are supposed to do? I don't work for MSFT, but I do have MSDN subscription.
Re:Win8 is just Win7 SP2 (Score:4, Informative)
whatever you want to call it, its not release
What part of Release To Manufacturing (RTM) is unclear to you?
Re:Win8 is just Win7 SP2 (Score:5, Insightful)
The AC's comment was downvoted because he's an obvious Microsoft marketer (or allied company). Especially in his last sentence when he says Win8 is "slick" and he "likes where this is headed" and can't wait to get a Surface Tablet and Windows 8 Phone to "bring it all together".
Who talks like that? Bring it all together? Bring what together? The last time I heard those vague-type phrases was during a voiceover for a television ad.
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I had no problems with ME with my K62 boxes, and its actually a tad bit faster than 98
Remember ME? yea I do, course I am not latching onto a phrase to attempt to be funny
Re:No kidding. Anyone remember... (Score:5, Informative)
The issue with WinME was this: it would accept both older VxD drivers and newer WDM drivers. Their jerry-rigged solution to make VxD drivers work made the system extremely unstable. But as long as you used only WDM drivers, it was solid.
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"But as long as you used only WDM drivers, it was solid."
HOLY CRAP! someone with a clue
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..... except when the drivers for your devices came only in the win2k flavor of WDM, or 9x flavor VXD.
NT flavored WDM drivers did terrible, terrible things to ME.
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This must be the daily subthread where we 1) get the order of Windows release wrong, and 2) arbitrarily declare them good or bad to make the pattern fit.
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I've always hated the joystick nobbies.
Re:Never mind Windows 8 sucks! (Score:4, Funny)
We always called the "clit-mice."
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June 30, 2008 end of retail sales
October 22, 2010 end of systems with XP preinstalled
April 14, 2009 end of mainstream support
April 8, 2014 end of extended support
(XP below service pack 3 has earlier dates)
What the end of extended support means is:
a) No more security updates
b) No more option of paid support
c) No more maintenance of website information on MSDN....