Beer Fridge Caught Interfering With Cellular Network 231
aesoteric writes "A man's backyard beer fridge in Australia has been busted interfering with the cellular network of major carrier Telstra. Engineers used an internally-developed software 'robot' to crawl log files from the network and sent a field team out to pinpoint the cause of the interference."
Respect Your Elders, Telstra! (Score:5, Interesting)
Incidentally, Australian beer fridges have the honor of being among the first commercially successful applications [wikipedia.org] of refrigeration technology(the principles and some early prototypes were developed elsewhere; but Australia's not-exactly-robust ice-harvesting industry didn't imperil the cost effectiveness of the systems in the way that it did in places that actually have ice). Telstra should turn down whatever RF 'noise' the kids are listening too these days and let Grandpop play what he wants!
Irrelevant history aside, what kind of dodgy does a motor have to be to generate enough RF to degrade a cell system in the course of performing relatively modest compression duties for a small refrigerator?
Re:Respect Your Elders, Telstra! (Score:5, Funny)
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You criticised the DMCA. Of course you get a +5. It's automatic.
Re:Respect Your Elders, Telstra! (Score:5, Informative)
it could have caught fire too so it's good the fault was found
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I'm just surprised because a brushed motor, which I was assuming this was, acts as a feeble arc gap under normal operation; but presumably had to pass regulatory muster when first manufactured, as well as remaining efficient enough to keep the fridge running, within the power budget provided by a domestic breaker while also putting out enough RF noise to escape(usually sealed to keep the refrigerant in) coolant loop and disrupt the cell towers.
I would have expected one perturbed enough to be a regulatory is
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There's arcs and then there's sparks. Well no scientifically there's not, but my point is the amount of RF generated by an arc depends on it's properties just like any matter in physics. A small brushed motor would generate a tiny amount of RF compared to a lightning bolt, or the 15kV or so used by Spark-gap radio transmitters back in the day.
Re:Respect Your Elders, Telstra! (Score:5, Informative)
Just a hint at how much RF you need - your cellphone (GSM) typically has a 1W transmitter. Usually, it operates at less than 250mW, and most will probably never ever exceed 500mW. That's all it takes to contact the tower.
Hell, hams have been able to hit their local repeaters with handhelds that rarely go above 5W, and most cell towers are lot closer. It doesn't take a lot of power to flood the receiver of the tower.
Anyhow, a 240V 13A socket provides over 3kW of power. The fridge motor really only needs under 1kW. A bad motor can easily drag in another 1kW and still not pop the breaker.
All one really needs to do is to enclose the motor in some fine mesh which shields the spark gap
And modern day ITU regulations prohibit operation of a spark gap transmitter because they are very wideband and interfere with lots of communications. This actually proved to be a problem when they wanted to resurrect the transmitters similar to the kind used on the Titanic - the required huge faraday cages to minimize interference.
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Shielding the faulty motor might not work so well, without additional measures the supply cable will happily function as an antenna :)
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Passed when manufactured. The fridge could be decades old - it's quite possible the brushes were worn down to next-to-nothing. There's no assurance this was a high-quality fridge designed for long life - it could be just the cheapest junk the factories of China could put out capable of making beer colder.
Re:Respect Your Elders, Telstra! (Score:5, Interesting)
It just has to be dodgy enough to interfere with a very specific set of frequencies. In Hellstra's case this is 824â"849 and 869â"894 MHz.
This is why you are asked to turn off your phone on aircraft, this is what a malfunctioning fridge can do to mobile reception, think about the interference a malfunctioning phone will cause to communications and navigation equipment (which operate on similar frequency ranges to mobile phones).
But TFA glossed over a very important part of the story, after the offending fridge was deactivated... How did the owner keep his beer cold?
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The company should have bought him a new fridge, but unfortunately that isn't how the world works.
Re:Respect Your Elders, Telstra! (Score:4, Insightful)
But TFA glossed over a very important part of the story, after the offending fridge was deactivated... How did the owner keep his beer cold?
Obviously,he drank them all. Problem solved (for now).
Re:Respect Your Elders, Telstra! (Score:5, Informative)
Irrelevant history aside, what kind of dodgy does a motor have to be to generate enough RF to degrade a cell system in the course of performing relatively modest compression duties for a small refrigerator?
It doesn't. Any electrical device can emit RF over a broad range of frequencies. Your computer can radiate anywhere from DC to over 5GHz. Your car, especially if it's an electric hybrid, can radiate large amounts of EMR at lower frequencies (not connect it to anything. They would wait up to a year before actually using it, because invariably every single thing that was already pre-existing in the area would be blamed on it, from poor TV reception to baby monitors fuzzing out, etc. The FCC of course investigates these things, and it's become common practice amongst amateur radio operators to simply lead them around to the back of the house and point out the disconnected (inert) antenna, because it's easier than going through the formal process of discovery, and there's a small chance of a false positive and resulting bankrupcy due to fines if that happens.
It sounds like the problem in Austria is that it's version of 'Part 16' is broken if they're threatening fines over a defective beer fridge. Here in the United States, as long as it's been certified by the FCC, as long as the owner uses it as intended and has not modified it, there is no legal liability that I'm aware of. In this case, such an enforcement action by a mobile phone company would require they prove the owner maliciously is trying to cause interference, or has, through modification or non-intended uses of an otherwise certified device, caused interference, before any fines could be levied. The solution then is for the license holder to work with the owner of the device to come up with a solution.
Or put another way: The mobile phone company would buy this gentleman a new beer fridge, and haul away the old one for disposal. But it sounds like, in Australia at least, even innocent people who bought a device commercially and used it as intended can be caught in a legal snare that could ruin their lives. Stay classy, Australia.
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Not so. In the US, if a Part 15 device is causing interference on licensed bands, the owner of said device is required to correct the interference or stop using the device. Seems like it'
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There is no legal liability if the owner stops using it once made aware. That's what the parent was saying.
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I think you mean part 15, and you have it wrong. Part 15 means if your device is interfered with you have no legal recourse, and if your device is causing interference you must stop using it. There is no exemption for working correctly or as certified, and there is no need to show malicious intent. If you are causing interference and do not stop, you will be fined.
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Part 15. I don't think you'd get fines unless you continue to operate once being made aware your device is defective and causing interference, unless it's something blatant (transmitting on licensed/reserved bands, excess power, unregistered device that doesn't meet the regs, etc).
If it's something that is only bothering one HAM operator, FCC is pretty pokey. If it's interfering with big telcos, or the army, or airplane communication, etc, I imagine the response is pretty swift and somewhat more brutal.
TFA
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The motor is likely an AC induction motor, and without brushes,not the problem. I'd check for a dodgy thermostat, myself. With bad / dirty contacts, it could start arcing something fierce before it cut out.
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I had logitech 5.1 speakers on my computer that would pick up a FM station in the low end for ranges of about 5-10 seconds every minute, and of course an old P1 that I had to over clock to listen to my fav FM station..
How (Score:4, Insightful)
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Arcing and sparking can release noise across a huge portion of the spectrum. That's how microwaves from 60 to 120 GHz were first made in the 19th century, with a spark gap and resonate cavities.
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In new-from-the-factory and FCC/equivalent-approved condition, sure. But if it's faulty it might continue to function while internally having developed an internal electrical fault that's causing the noise.
It wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened either:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/beds/bucks/herts/8327549.stm [bbc.co.uk]
Re:How (Score:4, Interesting)
eh? where I come from people plug in their fridge and let it go for 30+ years. what are the brushes of an ac motor going to look like then?
heck the one I grew up with (from the 60s) my dad took it down to my grandmother's in mid 1990s, he gave it a freon charge right before plugging it in and after my grandmother's death my uncle is using it today. Surely that thing puts out some RFI though who'd notice out there in farmland....
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Fridges use induction motors - no brushes. This provides high reliability and lower noise, at the cost of weight (which is pretty irrelevant in a fridge).
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The brushes will look the same as they did the first day it was used ... non-existent.
Unless you need variable speed, brushes are not required in AC motor designs. A fridge generally doesn't use variable speed.
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Here's another link: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/fridge-fault-causes-telstra-mobile-network-blackouts/story-fni0fit3-1226655474358
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Re:How (Score:4, Insightful)
No, purpose-built transmitters necessarily have a single frequency, but ACCIDENTAL transmitters can crap all over the radio spectrum.
http://radiohax.wikispaces.com/Spark+gap+transmitter [wikispaces.com]
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tough decision!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: tough decision!!! (Score:2)
After 5 pm work can't reach you.... THAT
Re: tough decision!!! (Score:5, Funny)
After 5pm work can't reach you... THAT is a feature for a Beer Fridge!
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And because of the time required the beer to cool, you have beer-free time for dinner with your wife and kids.
Beer fridges - keeping the family together.
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Why can't we have more interesting stories? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why can't we have more stories like this? Why does it always have to be something political or an advertisement for a product or the usual MS bashing stories? This title alone is more interesting than any "news" story I've seen on Slashdot in the last year.
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Why can't we have more stories like this? Why does it always have to be something political or an advertisement for a product or the usual MS bashing stories? This title alone is more interesting than any "news" story I've seen on Slashdot in the last year.
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- Dice
More pertinent information on beer fridge (Score:5, Informative)
The linked article is far more about the internal 'robot' and very little about the beer fridge. While perhaps the intent of the /. post, I was far more interested in how the beer fridge could have caused such an issue. Thankfully, TFA has a link to another, far more interesting, FA [heraldsun.com.au]:
It includes an image of said fridge, which looks like something from the 50s/60s (maybe? I don't know, I still have people yelling at me to get off their lawns.) More modern models probably have much better, efficient motors that don't cause this kind of issue.
No mention of the resolution, but I assume it involved unplugging the fridge. (I wouldn't be surprised if he paid more in electricity for that thing per year than just buying a new, medium-sized fridge.)
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No mention of the resolution, but I assume it involved unplugging the fridge.
You will unplug my beer fridge over my cold and lifeless body. This is why we Uhmerkins have guns.
Hopefully, they bought him a new fridge.
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You will unplug my beer fridge over my cold and lifeless body. This is why we Uhmerkins have guns.
If need be, the Guvernment can order the local electric company to shut off power to his residence, in order to combat the interference. The lights can be switched off at a safe distance from the pole, without unplugging anything or approaching the residence.
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I'm really curious about how they could enforce something like making him remove the device. It's not his fault their network is impacted by a completely unrelated device. Did they offer to buy him a new one?
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I don't know about Australia, but in the US, you are responsible if you are causing interference in somebody else's licensed band. Even if you didn't mean to, you are transmitting (noise) on a licensed frequency without a license. If it even looks like it might be because you made some modifications to radio gear, you can be liable for a large fine (and depending on the band possibly jail time).
I remember a few years ago a convenience store near Miami's airport was closed by the FCC because they had some
Re:More pertinent information on beer fridge (Score:5, Informative)
It's not his fault their network is impacted by a completely unrelated device.
Once he's been informed of the disturbance his device is creating; he becomes liable if he fails to make it stop.
Same as if you have a fridge that makes insanely loud noises and creates a disturbance in the neighborhood, or a fridge that shoots fireballs at the neighbor's property.
The person operating the fridge is liable for the damage, and responsible for the repairs or to cease operation and dispose of their misbehaving equipment.
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I see the point, it just seems like the article makes it sound like his fridge isn't really malfunctioning; rather it's just really old and happens to blast out interference. It seems to be similar to older microwaves and cordless phones that can interfere with the 2.4Hrtz frequency.
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It seems to be similar to older microwaves and cordless phones that can interfere with the 2.4Hrtz frequency.
Fortunately 2.4Ghz is a Part15/ unlicensed frequency in the US at least; and some amount of local interference is OK as long as it doesn't emit high powered harmful interference that affects a licensed radio service.
If the status of 2.4Ghz ever changes - for example, if it becomes a frequency requiring a license -- owners of those devices might have to replace, repair, or cease use of those devi
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Thankfully, TFA has a link to another, far more interesting, FA [heraldsun.com.au]:
Gotta hand it to the Herald-Sun. They don't get distracted by irrelevant minutiae such as digital forensics. They cut to the chase!
Software robot? (Score:5, Insightful)
Engineers used an internally-developed software 'robot' to crawl log files from the network.
Seriously? I know it's actually stated that way in TFA, but are people that stupid that they can't simply say "program"? In all likelihood, it's probably a 10-line Perl script. (Said as Perl fan, myself.)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_robot [wikipedia.org]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_robot [wikipedia.org]
Sure, but from TFA:
The "robot" is effectively an algorithm that crawls a database of performance stats collected from equipment across the NextG mobile network.
So, it searches *a* database of stats collected from remote equipment. How that information is collected isn't mentioned, but "syslog" would be one way. Even if it was collected directly from remote equipment, that could be done by a simple Perl script and a few modules. Certainly nothing even remotely (no pun intended) special about any of that. I did stuff like that before the "Web" was even invented (yes, I'm old). Still, ultimately, it's just a program. Thanks for the link anyway...
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Agreed, a 'bot' might be nothing special in terms of coding, if you know how, but it *is* established terminology.
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Agreed, a 'bot' might be nothing special in terms of coding, if you know how, but it *is* established terminology.
Sure, but given the description in TFA, I'm not sure it really applies. Scanning a local database for data *somehow* inserted from remote sources isn't anything bot-like... I think the interviewees were just trying to up the cool factor. My systems generate reports all the time - yawn. Sometimes my scripts even page/email me - automatically! Wow, I must be some sort of guru! :-)
Perl? Oblig. XKCD (Score:2)
http://xkcd.com/1171/ [xkcd.com]
Baby monitor interference (Score:2)
Slightly related, here are a few threads about radio-based baby monitors causing trouble in the ham bands:
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?topic=76680.0 [eham.net]
http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?310670-Bad-Baby-Monitors-on-50-125-FM [qrz.com]
http://www.techzonez.com/forums/showthread.php/23722-HAM-Radio-and-Eavesdropping!!!!-LONG-ONE [techzonez.com]!
The first and second one are about hams tracking down the problems. The second goes into great detail on how the user of the monitor was busted by the FCC. The third is from a use
That explains it (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That explains it (Score:5, Funny)
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Oh, come on. I have known for years that beer jams my inertial navigation system. And, it encrypts my communications, too!
Yeap, mine too.
'owever, most o' t'time, I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
Grammar check (Score:2, Offtopic)
That should be, used an internally-developed piece of software. The word "software," like "hardware" or "clothing" is plural. You have a piece of hardware, a piece of clothing, a piece of software -- not "a hardware" or "a clothing" or (ugh) "a software."
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Invent time travel first.
computer
noun
1.
Also called processor. an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations. Compare analog computer, digital computer.
2.
a person who computes; computist
Origin:
1640–50; compute + -er
Could have been worse (Score:3)
the fridge? (Score:3)
What I really want to know is what happened to the man's beer. Did Telstra buy him a new fridge or what?
Re:G'DAY MATE (Score:5, Funny)
You're joking, right? We export that crap so we don't have to drink it.
Want a good Australian beer, try something from Malt Shovel, Cascade or Mountain Goat.
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Or Little Creatures. Mmmmm.
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Even better, a Riverside IPA [riversidebrewing.com.au]. Aussie beer has come a really long way in the last few years.
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"Fosters"? Puhleeze. From what I understand (and may well be wrong about), what you call "Fosters" is a product we call "Crown" (and it is still overpriced and not that great). The "Fosters" they offload on us poor convicts would be the fifth keg of the night at a frat party, at BEST. The last bar that honestly served "Fosters" in any seriousness was the one on the set of "Crocodile Dundee".
The others here know of what they speak. Blue Tongue, little creatures, cascade and many many others wipe their boots
Re:G'DAY MATE (Score:5, Funny)
We had beer fridges interfere with our work for 20 years and we don't even had internet.
Re:G'DAY MATE (Score:5, Funny)
You're joking, right? We export that crap so we don't have to drink it.
Given that Fosters has something like a 45% share [news.com.au] of the Australian market, some combination of this must be true: it still has fans, remains a guilty pleasure that isn't admitted to, or nobody can find enough export victims. At least it has some snappy [youtube.com] advertising to help.
Frankly, I have no idea what can be done about vegemite [vegemite.com.au]. People have been warned.
Re:G'DAY MATE (Score:5, Informative)
That's the name of the brewing company that makes cat piss such as Victoria Bitter, Carlton Draught, Crown Lager etc.
Foster's Lager, the beer, was bought out by foreign investment a couple of decades ago and is no longer brewed here.
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Thank you for the update.
Almost (Score:4, Informative)
The Fosters Group brewery (formerly CUB) in Queensland still brews it. However on my last trip there they said it's one of their smallest production runs of any product passing through the brewery. It's outdone by all other beers brewed there even by import licence like Guinness, and even Smirnoff Vodka beats it by production volume.
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I stand corrected. I haven't seen it in a pub in Victoria nor bottleshop since the early 90s.
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When the taste of a beverage tempts me to drink something else to wash away the taste of the first beverage, no matter what it is, there's got to be something wrong with it.
Re:G'DAY MATE (Score:5, Informative)
Foster's group has 45% share, not the beer called "Foster's", which is actually quite hard to find inside of Australia.
Given they're owned by SABMiller, you should really argue that "miller" is the bestselling beer in Australia if you're going to say that the owner == the brand (which is obviously incorrect).
Foster's commercials are not shown in Australia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster's_Group#Beers_and_Breweries [wikipedia.org]
Most important in that list are VB (probably the best selling beer in Australia), Cascade, Matilda Bay, and Carlton.
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I stand corrected. Thanks for the link.
Re:G'DAY MATE (Score:5, Insightful)
Vegemite is awesome, lightly spread of hot toasted light rye so that it's salty and chewy at the same time.
The mistake most foreigners make is slathering it on like peanut butter. It's a strong taste and you don't need much.
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Agreed, unfortunately there are tragic individuals like myself & my missus whom slather it on. We go through one of the 220gram jars every 2-3 months or so.
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I've always slathered Vegemite and Marmite like peanut butter and I like it that way. I've always been a little odd when it comes to foods with strong flavours, though.
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These days, it is Marmite in Australia too.
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Fosters is just the Aussie version of Budweiser. People there drink it, but no one seems to own up to it publicly.
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G'day Mr Fjord, may I suggest you try a thin scrape of Vegemite on a bbq chicken sandwich. YUMMO
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G'day Mr. DeathElk, I welcome your suggestion. And if the Light Horse could scrape up the courage to charge Beersheba under Turkish guns, I think I'll be able to find the courage to try Vegemite as you suggest. Cheers!
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I was there last week, not a Turkish gun in sight. But I would still advice against charging it, it is way too hot at the moment and there are too many Israeli tanks :-)
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Only if your head is firmly planted in the sand.
The reality is all countries have their great beers and their crap beers. I still find it amazing that anyone can pass judgement on Australian beer (even crap like Fosters, VB or XXXX) while they drink the abortion known is the American Budweiser.
You want a delight for your senses try one of the smaller craft breweries like the Little Creatures brewery or the slightly more mainstream James Squire range of beers.
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...while they drink the abortion known is the American Budweiser.
You know why they call Budweiser "sex in a canoe"? Because it's fscking close to water.
Re:G'DAY MATE (Score:5, Funny)
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Fun, and here in Mexico we sometimes drink dos equis (XX) :D
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You can find XX and Sol at any licensed mexican restaurant in Australia and, obviously, Corona too.
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I'm sure you can, but can you find a Corona for under 80cents.... ;)
Besides I prefer Victoria, which is harder to find outside of Mexico
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Well no you'd have trouble finding any beer for 79c.
Australia has one of the highest costs of living in the world even, arguably, higher than your beloved Canada.
Re:G'DAY MATE (Score:5, Funny)
Dos Equis is named for the blend... it contains the piss from two horses.....
(yes, I'm aware the Latin is spelled slightly differently...)
Re:G'DAY MATE (Score:5, Funny)
So it's only half as bad as XXXX?
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Goddamnit, no mod points today.
Re:G'DAY MATE (Score:5, Funny)
The Fosters we get in the States is brewed by Oil Can Breweries, Fort Worth, TX, which I suspect is a front for recycling refinery waste.
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Isee. So if one is getting shitty service (what else) from their cell phone company and decides to improve the service on their own at their own cast, it's illegal. And you're stuck with the shitty service.
To play devil's advocate on this one, if doing so can actually further fuck the mobile phone network, then it being illegal isn't such a bad thing.
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The robot, apparently code-named 'Bender' was apparently not concerned initially until it determined that the fridge contained beer, at which point it flagged this as a priority.
I heard this robot codenamed Bender had an antenna connected to a faulty transceiver that might be responsible for cell phone network interference (as well as satellite TV interference)