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XP's End Will Do More For PC Sales Than Win 8, Says HP Exec 438

Posted by timothy
from the grass-was-always-greener dept.
dcblogs writes "Hewlett-Packard executives say that the coming demise of Windows XP next year may do what Windows 8 could not, and that's boost PC sales significantly. 'We think this will bring a big opportunity for HP,' said Enrique Lore, senior vice president and general manager of HP's business PCs. Lore was asked, in a later interview, whether the demand for XP replacement systems could help sales more than Windows 8. His response was unequivocal: 'Yes, significantly more, especially on the commercial side,' he said. Lore said 40% to 50% of business users remain on XP systems."
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XP's End Will Do More For PC Sales Than Win 8, Says HP Exec

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  • by CaptainOfSpray (1229754) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:32PM (#43975813)
    ..with XP look-alikes. Yeah, OK, I can dream, can't I?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:40PM (#43975925)

      There is some credibility to that theory. After all, if you have to install an entirely new system anyway, it makes it easier to jump to a different OS family. especially if it has a similar UI. I hardly think the majority of businesses switching will do this, but I'm sure at least some of them will, and Linux numbers will reflect it. Hell, if you're so focusesd on saving money or maintaining stability that you've used XP for this long, something like Debian GNU/Linux might be perfect for you.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        You're forgetting about that whole Windows software compatibility thing.
        • by fredprado (2569351) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:54PM (#43976147)
          Considering MS Office versions have been increasingly different from each other, I don't think it is easier anymore, from a training perspective to keep using MS programs. I mean, if you will have to train all your employees to use Office 2010, 2012, Blue or whatever, why not train them to use Libreoffice and get done with it?
          • by LordLimecat (1103839) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:53PM (#43976871)

            Because there are actually things that Word / Excel / Powerpoint are better at than Libre office, and few examples of the reverse.

            Also, because there is still some degree of continuity within Office 2000-2013 whereby you can move between versions with substantially less headache than moving from Office 2003 to LibreOffice-- even with the Ribbon to deal with.

            After writing a single term paper and trying to unravel the thought process behind footnotes / endnotes in LibreOffice, I found myself pining for Word.

        • by hlavac (914630) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:12PM (#43976387)
          I doubt these old unmaintained Windows XP business apps will work better on Windows 8 than on Linux :)
        • by g0bshiTe (596213)
          You're also forgetting that whole Windows looking and functioning similar to previous versions thing. If I want to use a tablet OS I'll use my phone otherwise I don't want my desktop turning into a smartphone that can't make calls.
    • by slashmydots (2189826) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:51PM (#43976091)
      zero of my company's software suites run on Linux so no it won't.
      • 1 - I doubt it's true even just looking at the offcial information; (Or, in other words, I'm quite sure you didn't look)
        2 - Lots and lots of software that claim not work on Linux do work.

        • by LordLimecat (1103839) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @03:02PM (#43976963)

          One of the chief marks of being a geek is that, knowing what is possible and having a mind for connecting things together, one tends to understate obstacles and complexity.

          So, a geek who understands that they can probably get a piece of software to work on Linux tends to miss that it may involve hours of work and break on the next upgrade, and that it probably will work badly with the USB scanner, and with a workflow which involves another piece of software, and that the entire thing is to complicated for most users.

          The reality is that moving your whole computing life to Linux is more complicated than just "pop the disk in". When I moved from XP to Ubuntu 7.04, I had to get wine up and running for WoW. I had to switch a bunch of config files to make it use OpenGL. I had to adjust a bunch of settings to turn off poorly supported features. Then WoW worked. Next I had to get Barry-Utils to make my blackberry work. Then I had to get a custom mouse driver for my G9 to work. Then I had to fiddle around with Ventrilo to sort of kind of get it working (it immediately broke on upgrade to a new release).

          Most things required a lot more tinkering once I upgraded again, particularly in the sound arena. Ventrilo never worked again after an upgrade, and is considered non-working on Ubuntu.

          • by rdnetto (955205)

            When I moved from XP to Ubuntu 7.04, I had to get wine up and running for WoW. I had to switch a bunch of config files to make it use OpenGL. I had to adjust a bunch of settings to turn off poorly supported features. Then WoW worked.

            Given that 7.04 was half a decade ago, you might want to use a more up to date example.
            Last week I installed Steam under Linux. It was as simple as './winetricks steam'. Admittedly, I still had to know to use winetricks and download a more recent version of it, but that's a significant improvement over 5 years ago, especially as all you need to know for any piece of software now is:
            a) use (the latest version of) winetricks
            b) check the Wine AppDB if it still doesn't work

      • by Mike Frett (2811077) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:41PM (#43976741)

        Maybe it's time to buy Software Suits that are Cross-Platform eh. It's a Company's own fault for locking themselves in to one OS.

    • by Opportunist (166417) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:55PM (#43976161)

      I'd rather guess it will work miracles in Apple sales.

      Take my dad. He's ... well, let's say not too tech savvy. But then again, all he wants is some email, some web research for his hobbies, organize his pictures and writing documents. Open office took care of the latter and for the rest, there's an iBook.

      It's easy, it's simple and it's something he can use without my aid (which is equally important to him as it is to me, he's a bit of a control freak).

      So unless MS relents and lets people get some boxes with Win7, I kinda doubt that many will opt for Win8 and rather, if they have to learn a completely alien interface anyway, go for an Apple.

  • by Atomic Fro (150394) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:37PM (#43975873)

    For the business users still running XP, I don't see them flocking to buy new Windows 8 hardware. They are still on XP because either the software they run won't run on anything else, or they are small businesses that don't have an IT budget. As long as the hardware and software works, they aren't going to go out and buy new systems.

    • by Tharkkun (2605613) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:46PM (#43976005)

      For the business users still running XP, I don't see them flocking to buy new Windows 8 hardware. They are still on XP because either the software they run won't run on anything else, or they are small businesses that don't have an IT budget. As long as the hardware and software works, they aren't going to go out and buy new systems.

      Until the first big virus hits that exploits a security hole that won't be fixed. When you realize you machines that can't be patched and will continuously be infected you may think differently about corporate security.

      • by lister king of smeg (2481612) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:51PM (#43976101)

        just because microsoft wont support it does not mean the antivirus vendors won't i can see them making lots of money off of xp support.

        • by Nemyst (1383049) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:38PM (#43976711) Homepage
          A/V vendors can't patch vulnerabilities. They can only attempt to prevent or clean the infection and are usually unable to do so.
          • by ChumpusRex2003 (726306) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:51PM (#43976859)

            It depends. A/V software can hook large parts of the OS.

            Most commercial A/Vs these days hook into the network stack at the packet-driver level (below the TCP stack), into the keyboard driver (anti keylogger, the hardware driver is hooked, and an encryption routine hooked. When a browser extension, or supported tool detects confidential data such as access to online banking, the encryption hook is enabled, and the key presses are encrypted at hardware driver level, and then decrypted by the browser extension; any keylogger running at anything higher than hardware driver will see only encrypted data).

            For kernel bugs, it would likely be possible to hook the calls into the kernel at the appropriate point, and block "suspicious" activity. Similarly, for remote network attacks, an A/V system could simply drop packets known to contain an attack, before they get very far into the networking stack.

            This probably won't fix all vulnerabilities, but pro-active A/V companies could certainly reduce the attack surface significantly.

            Then, don't forget modern firewalls with deep packet inspection - many are capable of sophisticated protocol or application specific filtering.

        • by drinkypoo (153816)

          just because microsoft wont support it does not mean the antivirus vendors won't i can see them making lots of money off of xp support.

          Corporate users will upgrade to windows 8 pro (or 8.1, soon) with windows 7 downgrade and install that. Home users who won't pay for Windows 7 won't pay for antivirus, either.

      • While I don't disagree with that statement, you'd think by now that all the security holes would be fixed on XP. I mean they've had what 11 years to get it right.

        Maybe the can security through obscurity?

      • by smash (1351)
        Exactly. TCO of Windows XP is about to go through the roof when exploits are no longer patched. If you're running XP everywhere you are going to be wide open to a an enterprise scale disaster.
        • by KiloByte (825081) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:44PM (#43976777)

          Please enlighten me, how exactly does Microsoft's security support matter? No on even remotely sane uses a version of Internet Explorer that works on XP, and all other browsers will keep security support for foreseable future. The only element that's not trivial to seamlessly replace is SMB, and that's relevant for the local network only.

          Other vital protocols:
          * DNS: when the shit hits the fan, clueful admins for some and "Security Suites" for the rest will install a reasonable resolver and tell Windows to query 127.0.0.1
          * sNTP: kill Windows Time Service; if you want replacement (I'm afraid most won't), you know what to install instead
          * ARP: this is harder, but a low-level firewall can detect and block packets that would kill Windows

          So folks will just continue the current state, slowly replacing Microsoft software. And in enterprise, block all SMB traffic other than to/from the domain controller and file servers, none of which need to run XP, or Windows for that matter.

          • Please enlighten me, how exactly does Microsoft's security support matter? No on even remotely sane uses a version of Internet Explorer that works on XP

            Except for big corps that still have large proportions of machines with XP.

      • by linebackn (131821) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:55PM (#43976165)

        Until the first big virus hits that exploits a security hole that won't be fixed. When you realize you machines that can't be patched and will continuously be infected you may think differently about corporate security.

        At which time you discover that continuously re-cleaning the machines is STILL easier and less work and money than replacing the poorly written proprietary corporate dreck resembling a Rube Goldberg machine that only runs under Windows XP.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Tharkkun (2605613)

          Until the first big virus hits that exploits a security hole that won't be fixed. When you realize you machines that can't be patched and will continuously be infected you may think differently about corporate security.

          At which time you discover that continuously re-cleaning the machines is STILL easier and less work and money than replacing the poorly written proprietary corporate dreck resembling a Rube Goldberg machine that only runs under Windows XP.

          Tell that to your sales staff making $150k a year that you need to re-image or clean their machine twice a month. Better yet, watch their machine go down on the last day of the quarter causing you to miss your quarter. Stock tanks. Now your cost just went through the roof because you want to take the route of additional downtime versus fixing the problem outright. I would hope most people in the corporate environment know we use Windows 7 as well. This article discusses the pushing of new machines but

          • Stock tanks. Now your cost just went through the roof because you want to take the route of additional downtime versus fixing the problem outright.

            Then your dog dies, you contract Ebola, and your wife leaves you.

            All because you didnt upgrade to Windows 7. When will people learn?

      • by Krneki (1192201)

        If we haven't learned this by now, what makes you think it will change any-time soon?

      • For the business users still running XP, I don't see them flocking to buy new Windows 8 hardware. They are still on XP because either the software they run won't run on anything else, or they are small businesses that don't have an IT budget. As long as the hardware and software works, they aren't going to go out and buy new systems.

        Until the first big virus hits that exploits a security hole that won't be fixed. When you realize you machines that can't be patched and will continuously be infected you may think differently about corporate security.

        Please explain that to the folks who purchase/load software on the machines in my office - I have no less than 3 business-critical programs I use daily, that are only compatible with XP.

        • Please explain that to the folks who purchase/load software on the machines in my office - I have no less than 3 business-critical programs I use daily, that are only compatible with XP.

          If you're like us, you are probably just headed to virtual machines. Your new computer will be Win7 and you'll click on your link to your program and it will run. It'll probably look like it used to, perhaps have some weird printing issues, and will be running on some server someplace in a closet although that bit will be mostly hidden from you.

      • by gulikoza (1087283) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:33PM (#43976667) Homepage
        So what? I still have SP2 machines working just fine. It prints receipts to the customers the same as the first day it was installed. Never patched it. The users working on it are limited and IE is prohibited with the GPO (employees have better work than surf on Facebook). LAN obviously is firewalled, not that this machine (and others similar) need to access the 'net. The only problem would be, if there was a domain wide virus that somebody would bring in with a laptop. However, that hasn't happened in the past 10 year. In my experience 95% of the "viruses" are crap people install themselves ("DHL sent me this packet, but I can't open the confirmation on my e-mail" "Are you expecting to receive something?" "No...why?"). No patches help that, unless it would patch the user, but then I'd be out of work... I have Win 98 as a retro machine here...connected to the Internet, running latest w9x supported firefox (3.6 I belive?), no AV (it's just p3-600). It won't get automagically infected as soon as it's turned on...why would it be?
        • by onyxruby (118189)

          You have a receipt printer attached to a computer that is assumedly used as a cash register. Now it is quite possible that said cash register is cash only (perhaps you work at a towing company?).

          That being said the overwhelming majority of cash registers are used with credit cards. Credit cards are subject to PCI audits and if your processor performed an audit you would find your contract rate jacked sky high or your contract terminated. This would remain the case until you were brought into compliance, whi

      • by King_TJ (85913) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:50PM (#43976841) Journal

        If a big virus hits that exploits a security hole that's unpatched, SOMEONE will offer a patch. I'm 99.999% certain. Why? Because regardless of Microsoft's wishes for XP to just go away, there are still too many people using it every single day (many of whom aren't even computer savvy enough to be able to tell you for sure which version of Windows they're actually using). A serious virus infection would #1, make Microsoft look really bad if they take a stance of "Too bad... we can't fix it.", and #2 would likely put entire networks at risk with the infected files getting copied onto shared drives on servers, uploaded to cloud shared storage locations, and more. It's quite possible such an infection would need an unpatched XP machine to secretly get installed in the first place, but newer OS's would have problems too if the users open attached files sent from the originally infected XP boxes.

        If Microsoft stubbornly refused, some 3rd. party computer security firm would seize on the opportunity to get 15 minutes of fame with a free patch they'd circulate.

    • by David_Hart (1184661) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:26PM (#43976567)

      For the business users still running XP, I don't see them flocking to buy new Windows 8 hardware. They are still on XP because either the software they run won't run on anything else, or they are small businesses that don't have an IT budget. As long as the hardware and software works, they aren't going to go out and buy new systems.

      Exactly. Even large companies cut their IT budget over the last few years. We were doing 3 year leases where we got a new computer every 3 years. They extended the current leases to save money so I am stuck on XP until the replacement program starts up again this summer. My X200 laptop only supports 3GB of RAM, so simply upgrading is not an option.

  • by jxander (2605655) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:38PM (#43975887)

    "Pulling the rug out from under 40-50% of our clients should really shake things up and boost sales"

    • by Tharkkun (2605613)

      "Pulling the rug out from under 40-50% of our clients should really shake things up and boost sales"

      Unfortunately there's no rug pulling going on. Microsoft announced this end of life 3+ years ago. That's the lifetime of a many business pc's so this should come as no surprise to anyone.

  • http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20140407T115959&p0=1244&msg=Windows+XP+End+Of+Life [timeanddate.com]

    i wonder how many websites and programs are now NOT supporting XP??

    in 300 days i bet a lot of them won't

  • Wishful Thinking (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rudy_wayne (414635) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:42PM (#43975945)

    Just because XP reaches its official "end of life" doesn't mean that people will throw out their computer and go buy a new one. For most people- and businesses too - as long as existing units still get the job done there is no compelling reason to buy a new computer. The fact that Win 8 is crap is also a factor.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:52PM (#43976123)

      Many large institutions cannot legally continue using an out of support operating system.

    • still get the job done without being an unacceptable security risk to their employees, their data, or the rest of their network there is no compelling reason to buy a new computer.

      There, fixed that for you.

    • by trifish (826353)

      there is no compelling reason to buy a new computer

      You'd think the idea of a permanently vulnerable OS connected to the net (sending your passwords, credit card numbers, or just about anything, to botnet owners) is not a reason compelling enough?

      And who the fuck moderated this +5? Am I still on Slashdot?

      • by mjwx (966435)

        there is no compelling reason to buy a new computer

        You'd think the idea of a permanently vulnerable OS connected to the net (sending your passwords, credit card numbers, or just about anything, to botnet owners) is not a reason compelling enough?

        And who the fuck moderated this +5? Am I still on Slashdot?

        Like home users give a crap about botnets or their own security.

        Most are utterly convinced the bank will automagically protect them from all the baddies.

        Hell, there are people on /. who think the bank gives them free money. I mean a bank, the most merciless profit oriented organisations on the planet... handing out free money?

        Son. People are naive, if this needs to be explained to you at this point, you are one of those people.

    • They won't throw them away, they will just install windows 7.

      Unless your computer is actually 10 years old from when XP was current, it will run win7. If you are on a corporate standard 3-year replacement program, odds are your last two computers came with a "Windows 7" sticker on them and was only rolled back to XP to be compliant with the rest of the infrastructure. You don't have to sell somebody a new PC for them to solve the problem of XP hitting EOL.

  • #define Win7 XP (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:47PM (#43976031)

    Win7 is the new XP.

  • Wrong question (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jawnn (445279) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:49PM (#43976065)
    The better question is how many people did not buy a new PC precisely because Windows 8?
    • Re:Wrong question (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Opportunist (166417) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:02PM (#43976281)

      This. A billion times this.

      A lot of people don't really separate OS and hardware. They don't see the difference. To them, a computer comes with an OS and that's just something that is on the HD when they buy that thing. They don't even consider that they are essentially two very distinct things.

      So when they consider "I need a new computer", they rarely really consider buying a new OS. The OS is simply something that is already on the box when they buy it. To them, this means that "new computer" invariably means "Windows 8". Because it has become near impossible to get complete hardware+OS bundles with anything but Win8.

      And not wanting Win8 essentially means for them that they cannot buy a new computer now and have to wait until MS "fixes" this (with a new OS). Or they turn to different OSs. It might be interesting to check how Win8 affected Apple sales.

    • by PRMan (959735)
      I have just installed SSDs for a few people instead. "It's like a new PC" and yet exactly the same as they are used to with Windows 7. Everybody's happy.
  • by smash (1351) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:52PM (#43976121) Homepage Journal
    Given the XP holdouts clearly don't like Microsoft's current offerings, and Mac is growing faster in percentage terms, and Linux appears to be finally getting somewhere - i don't think these XP holdouts will be migrating to another Windows box any time soon.
    • Re:well... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by H0p313ss (811249) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:22PM (#43976519)

      Given the XP holdouts clearly don't like Microsoft's current offerings, and Mac is growing faster in percentage terms, and Linux appears to be finally getting somewhere - i don't think these XP holdouts will be migrating to another Windows box any time soon.

      If the XP holdouts still prefer XP to Win7, they certainly are not going to gravitate to Mac or Linux. (Well some will, but the bulk are just too afraid of change to do anything that drastic.)

  • by voss (52565) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:52PM (#43976125)

    to Windows 7 this year.

    Windows 8 was just too much of a learning curve for them even if it were the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    Windows 7 is similar enough to XP that I can sit them down at it and not have to reteach them everything. I can even make it look
    like XP If I really need to. I cant do that with 8 unless I buy add-ons.

      Also Windows 7 pro includes an XP virtual machine...so why bother with 8?

    Windows 7 is barely 3 years old its not like its going anywhere anytime soon.

  • by MacTO (1161105) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:54PM (#43976155)

    Businesses continue to use XP for a variety of reasons, and in a variety of environments. In some cases, they will be willing to upgrade their systems. I will suggest that does not hold true in most cases.

    These businesses have invested a lot into their existing systems: hardware, software, and training. They are aware of the strengths and weaknesses of what they have, which reduces the burden of supporting them. Their systems are also in production, fulfilling roles within their operations.

    Depending upon the state of their existing systems: replacing XP would involve reinvesting in hardware, software, and training. They will be unable to make effective use of the strengths of their new systems, and will also fall prey to the weaknesses of them. It will take a considerable amount of time to document those changes. Changes also involve pulling systems out of production, meaning that they are unable to fulfill their roles in their operations. All of this represents a liability.

    I'm predicting that a most of those businesses will continue to use XP. They will mostly depend upon their strengths internally in order to maintain them. They will also contract out to third parties when they need to. New policies may pop up when it comes down to maintaining systems that are no longer receiving security updates, but they will justify them by claiming that those policies should be in place either way.

    I think that HP would do a lot better by servicing those businesses.

  • by houbou (1097327) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @01:59PM (#43976235) Journal
    somebody asks me, I would say, go get a Win 7 PC, stay away from Win 8.
  • by helixcode123 (514493) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:01PM (#43976267) Homepage Journal

    I don't know if this is any sort of indication about the popularity of Windows 8, but I got my daughter a new Acer laptop with Windows 8 for a graduation present. She asked my to put Ubuntu on instead. Interestingly, she prefers Mate to the default Unity desktop. Aside: boots in seconds because I put /boot and /usr on the SSD drive. Very nice.

  • ok, so i am a neebie, and may not know as much as others in here, but...what your saying is, that when they discontinue offering support for XP, that everyone will rush out and buy new ? I highly doubt that, maybe the larger companies will, and governmental agencies, but the mom and pop type business, won't. I co-own one, and if it isn't broke, we aren't going to fix it period, even if it is broke, we prob won't fix it either, there is no perceived threat of anything different happening
  • by kimvette (919543) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:10PM (#43976367) Homepage Journal

    There is no salvaging Windows 8. Even Classic Shell doesn't fix a lot of Windows 8 problems - it just makes Win8 tolerable for a home user.

    I see this more as an opportunity for improvement of heuristic engines in anti-malware programs, and the selling of more security-related licenses.

    Or, possibly, big corps finally embracing either Linux or Macs.

    • by H0p313ss (811249)

      There is no salvaging Windows 8.

      Nonsense; they just need to peel back the silly touch UI and restore the old desktop parts.

      Yes, it's a trainwreck of a PR issue, but no, it's not un-recoverable. That's just silly FUD.

  • by QuietLagoon (813062) on Tuesday June 11, 2013 @02:18PM (#43976471)
    Windows XP's looming retirement won't shake PC business out of sales funk [computerworld.com]

    .

    The looming retirement of Windows XP won't stem the dramatic drop in PC sales this year, but it may help bolster Microsoft's revenue, analysts said today. Although experts expect some business laggards to buy new hardware as they try to replace the 12-year-old XP before it's retired in April 2014, the quantities won't be enough to move the PC shipment needle to the positive side of the meter. "Replacements for Windows XP won't be enough to offset the declines on the consumer side," said David Daoud, an analyst with IDC.

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